The Lieberman Party

[MessiahRp]

Please forgive my short rant here....

I think the DLCers and Blue Dogs should all just join Lieberman in his political party. It would be far more honest than watching Sen. Nelson of Nebraska or others parade around as Democrats while voting against them every step of the way.

I don't want to lose the Democratic majority as much as the next person but let's be honest here. They're not voting with us on most issues these days anyways. They support the war, support illegal surveillance, are mostly anti-abortion, are for right wing immigration plans and generally tend to be against most social programs (i.e. national health care).

The way I see it is the low performance ratings of Democrats are because of these Democrats resisting what the electorate told them to do in the 2006 midterms and they give the rest of us that are trying to end the war and don't want anymore kowtowing to Bush a seriously bad rap. They endanger our 2008 elections as well.

If they were a part of the Lieberman Party the media would have to credit their comments and votes to the Lieberman party, not to Democrats and thus the blame could be shifted where it belongs. These people don't want to switch to the Republican party even if they vote like they are in fact, Republicans.

This will break the confusion some voters have at the ballot box. Most times they're voting for the Democrat because they know what the Republican party brings. These so-called "Democrats" aren't doing what their Democratic voters want, they're doing what their Republican fundraisers want.

Force them into the party of Lieberman. Let that party and the Lieberman name be exposed for their neo-con foreign policy agenda and allow the Democrats who actually WANT to end this war and protect the constitution to reclaim their name and approval from the MAJORITY of AMERICA that is with them on ALL the issues of the day.

These frauds would then be called out for who they are and what they believe and no longer would the Democratic party be tarnished by their views being attached to their party affiliation.

America is Democratic and we get a bad rap because the minority few in Congress protect the status quo of political corruption over the rights of the American people. Those are NOT democratic principles.

I just believe it is time for the Democrats to stand up and say, "Hey we really don't have a majority and these are the real reasons why". Then Americans can focus in the 2008 elections, on electing real Democrats that will be the force of change they expected in 2006. Rather than the ones that are the agents of war and the protectors of Bush that are in office now.

:rant over:

-Rp

[Beelzebud]

1. For many, the illusion of power, is more important than standing for principles.

[Selatius]

2. Nelson is as much a Democrat as Kucinich or Edwards or anyone else is.

The only quantifiable measure of a Democrat is party registration papers. Judging somebody worthy of being a Democrat beyond that is simply injecting personal opinion as a rule stick. This is why I barely ever use terms such as DINO, because it implies there is another standard by which we could judge, and that's false because that standard isn't a neutral one.

The Democratic Party has an open door policy. You can't kick somebody out. You can't strip somebody of registration papers. You accept all the consequences under the sun as a result of having an open door policy. You can't open doors and accept the good while rejecting the bad. You must take it all in this case. You can't stop a banker or an industrialist who don't care for people from registering as a Democrat and using his millions to buy the seat through building name recognition, for instance.

[mdmc]

3. is that what the "L" stands for in dLc?

:shrug:

[jobycom]

4. Never let your ego get in the way of your best interests

Every one of us would like to boot a few Dems from the fold. We'd all smile. Until we realized that once again, the Republicans controlled Congress. No more hearings, no more attempts to block Bush's agenda, no check whatsoever on Bush's and Cheney's wildest fantasies. Hand the keys to the hen house back to the foxes? No thank you.

Contrary to what the Dem-bashers want you to believe, we've made progress. Bush is tanking in the polls, partially as a result of what our Congressional investigations have revealed. We have had some gains--increased minimum wage, more assistance for Katrina victims, more oversight. We've also got Bush so much on the run and so unpopular that his attempts to provoke war with Iran are failing, so far.

These Dems who lean towards the conservatives in many of their votes are still Dems. They would have more power flipping parties, making the Republicans the majority. Most of them vote conservative because they live in conservative districts or states, and hold seats that would otherwise go Republican if not for their compromises. I don't know why some of them want to be Dems, but they do, and it isn't about power, because they have less as Dems. Something in their hearts and souls and beliefs makes them want to ally with Ted Kennedy and John Kerry and Hillary Clinton and Barbara Boxer, and not with Dick Cheney or Tom DeLay or Orin Hatch. Whatever that reason is, I respect it. They might not vote right (meaning left) often enough to make me happy, but they vote that way often enough to prevent the Republicans from getting everything they want.

And that's better than your alternative, IMHO, with all due respect.

[MessiahRp]

6. This is a Democratic Majority in name only....

Our investigations have no teeth as Bush ignores subpoenas and his DOJ refuses to act on contempt of congress or perjury charges.

We don't have enough votes in the Senate to invoke cloture so nothing we want to get passed even gets on the floor and we don't have a veto proof majority on anything to beat Bush's eventual veto.

I also don't think these DLC/Blue Dogs would jump to the Republican Party and that's why I mentioned the "Lieberman Party". If they jumped to the Republican side it would blatantly call them out for how they've been voting and upset the majority of voters who voted for them. Those people didn't vote for a Republican, they voted for a Democrat. Switching to an (R) proves where their votes were and where their ideology lies and they would be canned in the next election for sure.

Rp

[jobycom]

8. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

We have accomplished a lot with the majority, but there is just no way we are going to be able to use our slim majority in Congress to get 90% of what we want. The Republicans control two of the three co-equal branches of government--they are going to win more than we do. Giving them the third branch would not do anything for us, and would do everything for them.

Our investigations have teeth. We are requiring the White House to offer legal explanations as to why they ignore our subpoenas. That gives us something to work on. We challenge those explanations, and if we win, they have nothing left to hide behind. That is exactly how Nixon was brought down. We can't simply declare ourselves dictators and overthrow the Constitution to punish Bush--we have to follow the law, and that means the White House has the right to present its case. The very fact that we have forced them to make an argument--an argument that can be rejected by legal courts or overridden by legal actions--shows how much better off the nation is than before the 06 elections, when Bush could do anything with no fear of reprisal.

Our investigations have trapped Bush, and driven his ratings so far down that his whole party is in danger of major losses--and major revisions--in the next few election cycles.

We have limited power, but we have some. What you propose would take it all away from us.

And as for these Democrats that you deride, many of them are voting as far left as their electorate will tolerate. I've met some of these Blue Doggers--none in Congress at the moment--and many of them are far, far more liberal than their voting record shows. They, like LBJ and JFK and Carter and Clinton, take a moderate to conservative path to stay in office, but do what they can. Throw them to a lesser party, and you may as well give that seat to a Republican, since you'll split the Dem vote in states where Dems are barely holding on as it is.

Wheels turn slow in DC. Have patience, have faith. Things are happening, and will happen, and we are moving in the right direction. We haven't just leaped from the far right to the left, because it just can't be done. We have turned, though, from a course heading off the cliff, to a course a little more favorable. That's a victory in Congress, and the best way to defeat that victory and let the other side win is to complain about the little you are gaining. Those little gains become major if you give them time.

We should push them to move faster, blast them when they pull crap like they did with FISA (though keep in mind that's a temporary bill), ride them, insult them, and all that. But let's not forget that they are the only chance we have, and saying "We might as well have a smaller, more pure party" is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

[warren pease]

5. Fine except for committee chairmanships...

Even though they're producing almost no results with these endless investigations, other than allowing BushCo to laugh its collective ass off every time they send out another subpoena, it's still better than having the GOP in the majority. Hardly detectable at times, but better nonetheless.

That said, I think local and state democratic committees ought to start naming names and pointing fingers at these appeasing shitheads, find and groom progressive alternative for all these seats, and promote them as viable alternatives to the Lieberman contingent.

I doubt that's going to happen, but if progressives are ever going to wrest control of the party back from the DLC, this is a necessary step, imo.


wp

[onenote]

7. Never the facts get in the way of a rant...

Do you actually know anything about the Blue Dogs. You refer to them as "so called Democrats" and state that "they're not voting with us on most issues these days anyways."

Well, you might try educating yourself. Nearly 60 percent of the Blue Dogs have voted with the Democratic Party more than 90 percent of the time during the current Congress. Over 80 percent of the Blue Dogs have voted with the party more than 85 percent of the time. Even the blue dog with the worst record for voting with the party(Gene Taylor) still votes with the party 80 percent of the time.

Nick Lampson is a Blue Dog. He votes with the party 86 percent of the time. If you can't see the difference between him and the man he replaced, Tom Delay, I really don't know what to say.

The Democratic Party doesn't demand 100 percent orthodoxy. If it did, then I guess we'd have to invite Henry Waxman (voted with party 97.4 of the time) and John COnyers (voted with party 97.1 of the time) to leave. After all, their record of voting with the party is worse than that of Blue Dog members JOe Baca (97.5) and Adam Schiff (98.2). And what would you do with Dennis Kucinich -- he's voted with the party 92.3 percent of the time this Congress. Toss him out too?