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Some threads prompt this question from me. Are buxom blondes

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 11:44 AM
Original message
Poll question: Some threads prompt this question from me. Are buxom blondes
worth less as people?
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Pierre.Suave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. I selected
they have as much worth as any other person.

What I don't get is why the news does not cover EVERY death like this. one death is no more or less tragic than any other, all people have others that care about them etc..What I would like to see is every death of a soldier covered in the same way on all the networks.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. Good selection.
Edited on Sat Feb-10-07 08:40 AM by mmonk
Don't let the rest distract you from the question. The media or Anna Nicole Smith weren't in the question and only two responses are answers to the question. My whole point is how society and the media influence the way people see people other than seeing someone as a person and a human being of value.
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. Are they worth less to me?
Or do I think they are worth less to other people?

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demrabble Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wrong Question
Here's the question that needs to be asked:

Are dark-skinned poor children who die worth less than celebrity buxom blondes?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. That wasn't the question I asked.
The question is simple.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. It's not simple. Worth less to whom and for what? Your question is invalid.
:spank:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I don't follow. Seems pretty straight up to me.
Only two of the poll answers directly answer the question as well (the other two have "qualifiers").
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. My question was simple. Yours was fraught with assumptions.
What does "worth less" mean? If someone is "worth less" how is that expressed? Again, worth less to whom and for what?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. What assumption did it contain?
Only a response can indicate whom or for what reason.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. No, that should be included in the question. If I say a black woman
is worth less, what does that mean? Worth less to whom and for what? It doesn't mean anything without context. Otherwise, you're letting the respondee fill in your blanks (make assumptions) and that makes your question invalid.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. I've got an answer for you that may surprise you
Edited on Fri Feb-09-07 01:26 PM by Morgana LaFey
Not that I think you'll get it. I bookmarked this thread long ago because the OP and a couple of responses were so valid and IMO important. The OP was a reaction against exactly the type of sentiment YOU express, which had been all over DU because of the young woman who went missing in Aruba. It really got ugly, actually. Here's the OP, and following that one of the better responses in the lengthy thread. I'm quoting these two posts to save you the trouble of finding them yourself (of the click-through). I've added emphasis here and there in bold:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2040552#2040989

OP:
omega minimo
Hatred & Cynicism Toward "Blonde White Girls" Is Bigoted, Divisive & Updated at 12:54 AM

Edited on Sun Sep-03-06 12:56 PM by omega minimo
makes "liberals" or "Democrats" look ignorant when they sneer about them. As if "blonde white girls" aren't people, aren't us.

Democrats really need to get a grip on the fact that they need women, then need women voters, they need women's ideas and energy and backing--

and they really need to quit alienating women and pretending it's okay to sneer and insult and denigrate OTHER HUMAN BEINGS who are victims of crimes BECAUSE they are blonde or white or women.





:hi: I am going to edit here because the horse has left the barn and is headed for a cliff. It is astonishing how reactionary black and white thinking creates an argument where there isn't one. The statement above does not claim there is no bigotry in the media!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's very simple. The fact of bigotry displayed in the media (which my OP in no way contested or addressed) is not in any way countered or ended by folks dissing, demeaning and divisively describing "blonde white girls" in a sneering, dehumanizing way. In fact, that dehumanizing attitude perpetuates bigotry; it is bigotry.

More bigotry does not correct media bigotry. One flavor of bigotry toward women is no better or different or "enlightened" than another flavor of bigotry toward women.


================================

Hidden Stillness un Sep-03-06 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
75. They Got Caught, omega

I have written on this pseudo-"liberal" bigotry against sprecifically white women before, on other threads, and so will only go over a few points on it.

First, they always whine that it is "not important" and "not news," even though they are stories about violent, unsolved, even covered-up crimes. They never use words like "raped and murdered," but use bizarre phrasing used on no other group, such as "blonde white chick went missing," "blond white damsel in distress surfaces," and other insults. They did not "run off" like "sluts," as implied; they were raped and murdered, and male authorities now prevent the cases from being solved, and the guilty arrested. I thought that was a kind of oppression; guess not. "Lynching...?" Guess not, if it is "merely" a white woman. They whine, "Why is this trivia on GD? Why isn't it in the Lounge?" There are threads on the rape-murders of children in Iraq by U.S. soldiers, and no one whines, "Why isn't this in the Lounge?"

Sometimes, they put a horrific "face" on it: I'm not against white women, I just want black people to be covered by media--??-- as if the "dead white chicks" are the oppressors of black people, and "preventing" coverage. They whine that other cases are not covered, as if the "white bitches" arranged their own rape-murders, just so they could get famous, and annoy everyone. Sometimes, these woman-haters are so pre-programmed, that they give the same "Why are we covering this trivia, rather than male stories?" before they even know what a story is, as when this Warren Jeffs was arrested. There was a lot of coverage, whining--"It's bitches again!"--and then they finally learned that this is a violent, mind-controlling cult, with rapes and arranged marriages of girls, people held against their will, many fraud crimes, etc., etc. Oh.

Bigotry against women masks as many things: 1) nobody cares about your trivial issue; 2) you are taking away valuable time that could be spent on males; 3) you don't know what real bigotry is, only males do; 4) some combination of "you are frigid/loosen up/you are trying to tkae everyone's fun away," that whole attack; 5) an attitude that pretends that white women are "privileged," because white males are, like we are their property, maybe? It contrasts "important" issues with the "white chick" deaths--"But people are dying there!"--yet treat the beating/rape murders of white women as trivial. It refuses to criticize the moneymaking male media that exploits dead, raped white women with a combination of dismissive contempt--"entertainment/not serious"--and pornographic leering, with pictures and details. Nobody here criticizes that; they attack the dead white woman no one helped when she was alive, even when they have personal protection orders, call the male police, etc.; no, they attack the women themselves, and anyone who calls attention to their bigotry.
====================================
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Good post.
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. No,Silly
Only for those who weren't breast fed.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't agree that we would have the same types of threads regarding Streisand and Sarandon
because, well, they really are accomplished actors/performers as well as being intelligent and well-spoken women. Frankly, if Susan Sarandon died I doubt the media would devote as much time to her passing as they are to Anna Nicole Smith!!!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. So you agree with the premise buxom blondes
are less intelligent or it depends on their celebrity status?
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Actually I've heard Jayne Mansfield (certainly a buxom blonde)
Edited on Fri Feb-09-07 12:45 PM by WI_DEM
was highly intelligent and had a very high IQ.

Actually I didn't answer the poll question, I just gave my opinion that I felt the media would not cover the death of Susan Sarandon with the same frenzy as Anna Nicole Smith. While Smith's death is very sad I'm not sure it warrants this kind of constant coverage. But's this country is obsessed with celebrity--we live in a People magazine haze--I would assume if Paris Hilton keeled over tomorrow it would be an even bigger story. These people are, imo, more or less media creations. Famous for being famous. No real talent. When did AIDS really begin to resonate with people? When Rock Hudson got it, not the thousands of people who weren't well-known were dying daily. This is why Anna Nicole is the big story and Iraq and the Libby trial are taking a back seat. The American people allow it.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. The question didn't contain any media mention. Only a response
choice did.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. That's NOT what the posted said
:eyes:

As someone who has had to deal with a LOT of stereotypical crap since puberty, I can attest that your question is silly and misses the mark.

The question is not whether posters at a liberal site consider buxom blonds worth less. The issues to consider are things like:

Does our culture, as a whole, tend to pigeon hole people based on their outward appearance? How does that damage us as a people, both in our relationships and in our policy decisions?

Does our culture, as a whole, tend to favor considering outward appearance over what substance there is? What are possible losses, to society as a whole, for such narrow vision?

Does our culture, as a whole, suffer when media focuses on events which actually do not impact the vast majority instead of actually providing information on issues which do impact the vast majority?

Not caring much about spending time obsessing over the death of a buxom blond is not the same as judging buxom blonds' lives as having less value.

Time is a limited commodity. Ms Smith's death certainly drives THAT point home. If some of us want to spend that limited resource on issues which affect more people directly than the death of one woman, that is a decision about how to use the resource, not a judgment of the value of lives of one physical type.

I say this as an aging buxom blond who has had to deal too long with people that think IQ and bust measurements are somehow related.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. So, would saying that there are more important stories
worth extended coverage concerning the nation such as the Libby trial be the same as asking a question about media coverage in this manner?http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x163987
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. "well-spoken women" Oh shit, is articulate for women now too?
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. Someone's physical apperance
Has nothing to do with his or her value as a human being.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Thanks. A straight answer.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think ANS's death is sad, but all the people who are pissed about the reactions should realize...
something: WHEN SOMEONE MAKES A LIVING BY BEING A LIVING CARTOON, AND THEN DIES IN A MANNER THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THAT IMAGE, people are going to have a hard time taking it seriously.

Examples
Steve Irwin: Makes a living being an annoying "crikey, this croc is really mad" daredevil, gets killed by an animal. People are going to laugh!

ANS: Most famous actions are her marriage, her posing for playboy, and the one that's really relevant for this discussion, her starring in a reality tv show that featured her being a trainwreck who was fucked up on drugs. Yesterday she dies in a manner that looks a lot like what a final episode of that show would be. People are going to have a hard time taking it seriously.

Is it right? Probably not. But it's perfectly understandable
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ForrestGump Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. "Steve Irwin: Makes a living being an annoying "crikey, this croc is really mad" daredevil, gets...
killed by an animal. People are going to laugh!"


No...f***wits are going to laugh.

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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Of Course Not. And Thank God For 'Em Too! Humminah Humminah Humminah
:)
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. Um... Are you suggesting that the reaction to recent events was because she was a buxom blonde?
That has nothing to do with it. The reaction (from those who reacted negatively) has been a response to the media and their inability to stay away from the fluff stories. From the beginning there was nothing news worthy about her. The news only glommed onto her because she was a cliche. She was famous for being famous. And the news lapped it up because its not the news any longer and is fully infotainment.

We are being rendered deaf and blind by this sort of infotainment. A democracy cannot work if the people are not informed. But the corporations have found ways to take us out of the picture by overwhelming us with useless information. In this way they sneak through a loophole and are able to steal our airwaves for their profit and our delusion.

People are pissed about what the media has done to our nation. And this story has from the beginning been exactly the sort of thing the corporate media has been using to keep us dumb and placid. It has nothing to do with her as a person. No one here even knows who she really was. All we know is the media personality we were given.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Again, my question did not contain a mention of the media.
Only one of the responses does.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Sorry but that doesn't quite evade the problem
This issue is entirely a media event. There is no part of it that is not. The only reason buxom blonds are on anyone's mind right now is due to the media.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Media does effect people as to how they view each other.
There's no question about that. But here's the question again.

Are buxom blondes worth less as people?
Yes or no?

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