In Truth We Trust
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:13 PM
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How many of you understand the difference between pragmatic and principle? Would we be better off if |
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we supported our principles or succumbed to pragmatism?
For me the answer is: "Give me principle or give me DLC Bullshit"
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havocmom
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message |
1. There is room in the middle |
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That used to be what politics in America was about.
One without the other is pointless.
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In Truth We Trust
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
3. You can't have a middle if the majority of both parties are on the right. I do understand your point |
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though and in the past it would be more accurate.
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havocmom
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
6. 'in the past' is why I used past tense |
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Edited on Fri Feb-09-07 01:27 PM by havocmom
;)
I am so old, I remember the term 'the loyal opposition' being used with honesty and affection during substantive congressional debates.
We've come a long way, baby, and it hasn't been toward the greater good.
And the middle I was referring to was the ground between pragmatic and ideological, not left and right. The lack of that middle ground between the practical and the ideal is a major problem for both the left and the right these days.
edited for typos
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In Truth We Trust
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
12. Well said. I apologize if I implied a correction. Not my intention, I agreee completely with what |
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you've stated. Btw, I too can remember those day's where respect and civility was commonplace in debate. Now we argue over non binding resolutions and I can't even recall the last time we witnessed a true debate of substance. All we get now are platitudes and distractions.
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havocmom
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Fri Feb-09-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. Don't know about you, but I am tired of the way things have degenerated. |
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Too many don't even recall a time when debate was real.
It's all "TASTES GREAT" and "LESS FILLING" now. Makes me really sad and not especially hopeful.
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Tierra_y_Libertad
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:20 PM
Response to Original message |
2. “In matters of conscience, the law of majority has no place.” Gandhi |
ThomCat
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
5. Awesome quote, and necessary point! |
LoZoccolo
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:24 PM
Response to Original message |
4. That is a false opposition. |
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Edited on Fri Feb-09-07 01:24 PM by LoZoccolo
You should be pragmatic in pursuing your principles. If you are not, you will not see them realized, the notion that they are really your principles can be called into question.
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ThomCat
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
8. If you determine your principles based on what's pragmatic |
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you never accomplish anything significant. You never stand for anything unless you already know for sure it's something you can accomplish.
The world would be a very miserable place if everyone thought that you should always be pragmatic.
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havocmom
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. Look at it this way: Principals = long term goals |
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pragmatic = the stages to get to those goals.
Real life.
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ThomCat
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
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My point is that the pricipals need to come first.
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In Truth We Trust
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Fri Feb-09-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
13. I appreciate all the responses in this thread. LoZoccolo makes a very valid point but Thomcat's post |
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to which I am replying, seems to me to be the ultimate arbiter of which path one should take.
Life is full of these dilemmas and necessary decisions.
Iraq war: stay or go or timetable. Electronic voting: HCPB's or audits and/or more of the same. Party affiliation: Dems or Greens.S Snickers: Homophobic or condescending of homophobe's Impeachment: Off the table or Do It NOW!
There are so many many more.....
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havocmom
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
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Nader is a case in point ;) His taking $$ from the GOP to affect change in the DEMs is just the most glaring example.
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Radical Activist
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Fri Feb-09-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message |
7. Sometimes you can do both. |
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Barack Obama allows me to support a progressive that reflects my principles but he also has a serious chance at winning.
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manic expression
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Fri Feb-09-07 02:56 PM
Response to Original message |
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Do what you can so that your principles will determine the future.
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