my shiny object thread

[k_jerome]

the reaction to the Snickers ad campaign is more of a reflection on our society than the ads themselves.

it ain't just the fundies and the republicans. in fact, i worry about them the least.

[redqueen]

1. What do you mean by that?

Would you please explain further?

[Bluebear]

5. The fundies & republicans...you know where they stand.

It's when some so-called progressives and liberals come at your with "lighten up" and "shut up about your equality and hurt feelings" that you realize you're not safe anywhere.

How did I do, kj?

[k_jerome]

8. a bit more diplomatic than I would phrase it. that is probably a good thing. nt.

[k_jerome]

6. what is there to explain?

please elaborate on what is not clear.

[redqueen]

7. I cheated.

At first I wasn't sure if you were saying that you were worried about liberals "overreacting" or whatever... ugly thread I was in earlier had me thinking that way.

But I read the post above yours and so... now that I re-read, it is more clear.

[jonnyblitz]

2. I know EXACTLY what you are saying and couldn't agree more.

:thumbsup:

[Jim Warren]

3. Crows are attracted to shiny objects

also they are attracted to roadkill.

[Maven]

4. Indeed.

The problem is not merely hatred, but its close cousin, resentment.

:thumbsup:

[redqueen]

11. Is that what it is?

I thought it was just hard-headedness.

But yes, resentment at not being able to enjoy the 'jokes' ... is that it?

[Maven]

20. Yes, I think so.

Resentment at not being able to enjoy the "jokes," and more generally, resentment at having their own reality affected, at having to give consideration, to a group that "should keep to themselves."

[k_jerome]

22. i think you are being kind...

i can think of much harsher language to describe what is going on.

[Solly Mack]

53. I agree - resentment is a big part of it

[ThomCat]

9. Sometimes, our supposed friends are worse than your

obvious enemies. x(

[k_jerome]

10. do what I do...

make 'em all your enemies until they earn your friendship.

[ThomCat]

12. I'm not that good at disliking people.

I'm abrasive, but I keep giving people the benefit of the doubt until they prove they don't deserve it. :(

[k_jerome]

13. not necessarily dislike, but distrust...

although the other does often come into play. i look at it in these terms - if most people supported a struggle for equal rights and an end to bigotry, things would be different. since things are the way they are, my only conclusion can be that most people do not. it is simply being a realist.

[ThomCat]

15. That is true. Most progressives are bigots

just not as bigoted as the fundied.

But if they see the debate as "how much bigotry is too much" that doesn't help us reach equal rights.

[k_jerome]

16. sadly, it is not the fundies that are preventing us all from realizing...

equal rights.

[Pendrench]

39. That's an interesting comment..."most progressives are bigots"

Do you think that most of us are aware of our prejudices, or do you think that they are exposed when we are confronted with an event (or a person) that brings those prejudices to the surface? In other words, do you think that most people are oblivious to these thoughts/feelings or do they just tend to hide them (or try to hide them) from others?

As for myself, I would like to think that I'm free of any bigoted thoughts, but (unfortunately) I know in my heart that's not true. Hopefully, self-awareness will bring positive change.

Thanks for the thought provoking post!

Tim

[ThomCat]

40. Most people are not aware of their prejudices

and don't want to be.

It's the part about not wanting to be that bothers me. Some people are so convinced that they're good that they don't feel any need to prove it, even to themselves. :(

There are some obvious, wonderful people here who look, see, and grow. Those are true progressives. I wish there were more of those people here.

[Pendrench]

44. Thank you very much for your response...speaking only for/about myself, I know that I have issues

with my own feelings toward certain topics/people...although I would like to believe that I'm capable of positive growth.

Thanks again -

Tim

[blonndee]

45. Me too!

I appreciate so much the learning and growing I've been able to enjoy because of what I've read here and elsewhere. There are prejudices that I discovered that I never realized, and things I never consciously thought were hurtful and/or offensive to others until I read about them here. The initial response is to resist, I think, but I would hope that would be limited to an internal response, followed by more listening and reflection to determine the hows and whys of it.

[Pendrench]

47. I agree - and I think that there is a difference between bigotry and ignorance.

For example, if I'm not aware that something I say or do is offensive to someone else (ignorance) I would think that that would be somewhat more forgivable than knowingly doing/saying something that was offensive to someone else (bigotry).

Tim

[k_jerome]

48. it is reasonable to think that...

it is what we do after we discover our ignorance that matters.

[uppityperson]

49. Reading this and your post#40 below, I agree, but you need to put "progressives" in quotes.

[rebel with a cause]

51. The old saying is

trust no one until they prove they can be trusted.

My son gets on to me because I got it wrong. I don't trust anyone, but act like I do until they prove they cannot be trusted. In other words, I set myself up until they prove I am right not to trust them.

As to your point of people supporting equal rights, I have found that in the world and even here people support equal rights when it comes to them or to their pet project, and they are not so interested in it for everyone. I say equal rights means equal rights, and that includes everyone. But I don't have the power to change anything, so be a realist and know that until we powerless people join together and work for all to have equal rights, there will be no differences made.

Special interest groups work for the interest of one group, a joining of special interest groups could do much more because they would have much more power. Does that make any sense to you.

[jonnyblitz]

17. I am not that good at liking people. nt

[ThomCat]

19. And yet, you're still awesome.

:hug:

I miss you.

[jonnyblitz]

23. ha, thanks for the compliment but i am sure others, especially

here, beg to differ. :P :hi:

[k_jerome]

41. me either...makes the whole enemies thing easier. nt.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Oh, is that what I've been doing all these years?

I'm glad someone clarified it for me.

[ruiner4u]

32. agreed,,,n/t

[bettyellen]

18. a great effort was made to cause offense to a genuinely oppressed minority here....

and an equally great effort - splitting hairs, parsing words out of context, invoking freedom of speech (!?!) was made in the justification and or denial of it.
what people, with a few notable exceptions often did not do, what they studiously avoided, was discussing the violent ad on the net at the heart of the controversy.

[Duncan Grant]

25. Well said, bettyellen.

You're absolutely right. :thumbsup:

There was also intimidation. Let me paraphrase something I saw sprinkled in the threads: "You gays are losing my support because you don't have a sense of humor. Lighten the fuck up. You whine about everything."

That was chilling.

[k_jerome]

26. please keep in mind...

you never had their support.

[Duncan Grant]

36. Those backhanded statements of "support" were the worst.

Which ties in perfectly to your statement about their relationship to my "second-class status" further down thread.

[bettyellen]

31. Yep, I saw that and it reminded me of what a shrill humourless feminist I am.....

I just loved the straight guys chiming in that there's no link between misogyny and homophobia.
Because they understand both those things so darned well.

[Duncan Grant]

35. LOL!

I saw that, too! Unbelievable. :rofl:

[ThomCat]

43. That was one of the classic posts this week.

I think we're going to remember and cite that for years to come.

[bettyellen]

46. coming from someone who actually has done bong hits with lesbians....

it did not ring true at all.
:rofl:

[ThomCat]

27. That is an awesome summary of what has happend here recently.

:thumbsup:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

29. Good post.

Well said.

:thumbsup:

:toast:

[bettyellen]

34. well add it to the 3 brazillion great posts from you and Thom... you had me laughing, girl!

I tried really hard to get people to comment on the violent aspect, but it was hard to get a peep out of em. And when they did....
You saw it, the reaction was straight up defensive.... what are you calling me, a murderer? Egocentric bullshit.
These straight men-- almost all of them-- fell in love with their new found victim status this past week.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

37. You just want kids to shoot each other don't you?

:rofl:

Thanks. You've had quite a few great posts yourself.

[bettyellen]

38. if the commercial was filmed in a livingroom with non-plumbers, then it would be like matthew

shepard. getting clocked by a big blunt object after a mistaken gay kiss? doesn't resemble mathew shepard at all- unless they are in a living room. and they're not plumbers. :rofl:

[Duncan Grant]

21. I can't stop thinking about "hegemony".

Hegemony

Main Entry: he·ge·mo·ny
Pronunciation: hi-'je-m&-nE, -'ge-; 'he-j&-"mO-nE
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek hEgemonia, from hEgemOn leader, from hEgeisthai to lead -- more at SEEK
1 : preponderant influence or authority over others : DOMINATION <battled for hegemony in Asia>
2 : the social, cultural, ideological, or economic influence exerted by a dominant group <extend their own hegemony over American culture as a whole -- Mary K. Cayton>


I also can't account for the lack of empathy. That really scares me...

[k_jerome]

24. i must say that i am not at all surprised....

although the fear is well founded. it is not the fringe elements that are the biggest obstacle to civil rights and social tolerance. it is the general acceptance of your second class status by society at large.

[Duncan Grant]

33. And that my friend, is a powerful thing to understand.

"it is the general acceptance of your second class status by society at large." :thumbsup:

Progressive people are often the targets of ad hominem attacks when they point this out around here. I wonder if some DUers have noticed how often "we" kill society's visionaries.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

28. Yep. I definitely agree. nt

[Midlodemocrat]

30. Do you watch the TV show Friday Night Lights by any chance?

This week's episode was dealing with a racist remark towards a player by a white coach. I have to confess I didn't catch the entire thing, but the when the kids on the team were all in the diner having something to eat the issue came up and it was the white kids essentially snickering that the black players need to 'get over it'.

I have to admit I didn't catch all the dialogue, but that was my impression and I was upset by it. I was upset that in this day and age, racism is still alive and well.

How far we haven't come.

[k_jerome]

42. i do not watch it...

but your comment about how far we haven't come is dead on.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. I agree!

The worst bigots aren't the ones that call you "fag" to your face, they are the ones that do it behind your back! Of course, the recent threads, including another one in another froum remind me of a song by Paula Cole.

Hitler's Brothers

Litte boy, tries to hide,
From the fire in his backyard.
Burning cross, white cloth,
It's the second time this year.

Hitler's brothers are still alive,
They're wearing everyday disguises.

A woman runs, for asylum,
She's the only one of her kind in this neighborhood.
She knows who they were,
They don't believe a word,
The cops just turn their heads to protect their friends.

Hitler's brothers are still alive,
Their army seems to grow in size,
Hitler's brothers are on the rise,
They're wearing everyday disguises.
...In camouflage or business suits.

Another man, bound and gagged,
Tied upon the railroad tracks.
At nine p.m. the B&M (Boston & Maine)
Rolled across his yellow skin

Hitler's brothers are still alive,
Their army seems to grow in size,
Hitler's brothers are on the rise,
They're wearing everyday disguises.
In camouflage or business suits,
Checkered aprons, combat boots,
Time to let those feelings go,
Hatred only kills your souls.

[k_jerome]

52. wish i could say i was shocked at some of the attitudes i am seeing. i am not. nt.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. nor am I. Actually, I quite used to it.

Some things are universial...hate is one of them, as is ignorance.