Another new school year, a new level of disrespect.

[LWolf]

Honestly. The teacher scapegoating has, in recent years, drifted from the right wing to the population as a whole, and our culture is rich with negative attitudes about teachers in general.

The job is challenging enough without having to overcome embedded disrespect from our students and the community we teach in. One great way to support us in the classroom would be to return education, schools, learning, and, yes, TEACHERS, to a place of honor and respect in our culture. Not this year, though. This year, we're dropping another notch in the "how low can you go" media dance, and Carl's Jr. is leading the charge, rolling out this piece of media filth just in time for labor day:

http://www.carlsjr.com/ontv/

[SoCalDem]

1. Pretty disgusting .. all to sell some lard-burgers

:puke:

[lonestarnot]

25. for some lard asses

:puke:

[GreenEyedLefty]

2. Every profession gets poked fun at, unfortunately.

The "Hot for Teacher" video from way back when did not make me disrespect my teachers, just so you know. :-)

I see your point, however.

[MichiganVote]

76. Is every profession subject to murder in a classroom full of kids?

[acmavm]

3. WTF was that? Is that really a commercial? Sheesh.

[AlCzervik]

5. yes it really is, i saw it a few days ago on vh1.

[roody]

4. I can't watch it with my old computer, but I am a teacher.

If it is disrespectful of teachers, boycott Carls Jr. I will. Oh, I have never bought anything there; I eat real, healthy food.

[krispos42]

9. You're probably better off not knowing n/t

[LWolf]

13. Here is a description

from an L.A. teacher's blog:

"Just in time for Fall classes, Carl's Jr. has rolled out a new ad campaign for its "patty melt," complete with a booty-slapping, pelvic-tilting Mary Kay Letourneau lookalike in a tight skirt (mostly a sad ripoff of--or homage to--Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher" vid). Two white boys rap and sneer about their "bun" preferences, draw and then erase part of the teacher's naked backside on the chalkboard, even flash brass knuckles at the end."

[YvonneCa]

50. Email them...

...as I did. I'm a teacher, too. I told them...respectfully...that they just lost a lot of educated customers. I am one of them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. OMG that is disgusting!!

I am so glad we don't have any of those restaurants here. :puke:

[hfojvt]

14. we do though - it's a partner or subsidiary of Hardee's

I recognize the star and the obnoxious voice of the announcer.

Okay, wiki corrects me. Hardee's was bought by Carl's in 1997

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardees#Hardee.27s_today

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Thanks for the research!

I guess I will now be avoiding Hardees.

[LWolf]

23. I don't eat fast food anyway,

but I will certainly be steering my burger-loving family away from Carl's Jr. :puke:

[Critters2]

79. Same corporation as Hardee's

If you have Hardee's, boycott them. Of course, Hardee's doesn't serve a damn thing veg*ns can eat, so I'm already boycotting them, by default.

[Fierce]

7. Another commercial, another commercial that disrespects women.

Forget teachers. It's trashing women.

[LWolf]

21. It's trashing both.

Trashing women, which is even more pervasive than teacher bashing. Trashing teachers, which is a favorite american hobby. Two for the price of one.

[krispos42]

8. Well, that is NOT what I was expecting

I was EXPECTING some freeper executive bitching about evolution and sex education...


This was, um...







interesting?

[knitter4democracy]

10. What. The. ****?!

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Just wrong. Ugh.

[City Lights]

11. Yuck.

I rated it. Totally raw.

[Patchuli]

49. So did I but you'll notice that the average person

appeared to rate it well. That doesn't bode well for society.

[earthside]

12. Time for Action?

Wouldn't it be great if the NEA would announce a nationwide boycott of Carls, Jr.?

And ... explain why advertisements like this, why popular culture is disrespecting education and teachers?

By the way, here is the contact page for CKE Restaurants, the owners of Carl's: http://www.ckr.com/contact.html

[LWolf]

Thanks for the contact page.

You make a good point. I think I'll send a little note to the NEA right now, as a matter of fact.

[fooj]

44. Thanks for the heads-up! I think I'll fire off a little WTF? to the CTA!

Maybe we can get the CTA (California Teachers Association) to take a stand AGAINST this type of unwarranted onslaught! This is EXACTLY why we face such obstacles in our profession. It's maddening. Actually, it's heartbreaking.

CALIFORNIA TEACHERS: Send a PROTEST letter to the CTA and ask for their help in getting this filth off the air. Thanks! :hi:

[LWolf]

47. I'm ex CTA, myself.

I'm now OEA, to the north of you, and you can bet they'll be hearing from me!

[YvonneCa]

51. I'm in. n/t

[hfojvt]

18. it would be ironic to join with these people

http://www.onemilliondads.com/IssueDetail.asp?id=292

[mzteris]

34. so?

Even a broke clock is right twice a day.

The commercial IS disgusting and bad for society. It sends the totally wrong message about a lot of things - to their "target market" (and younger, of course.)

[MethuenProgressive]

15. I'm more concerned with the sham "NCLB"

Isn't this some west coast burger chain?
Stupid commercial. Shallow, sexist, demeaning...
But not the end of the education system as we know it.

[mzteris]

35. no it's much more than that.

It's not just about a slam on education - and on teachers and on students and on women - it's just - well - if you don't "get it" then I don't suppose I'll make any headway -

and while Carls may be westcoast - Hardees is all over the damn place.

It's just wrong.

Would you want your wife or daughter or sister being treated that way?

Would you want your son, brother, (potential) husband thinking that's the way he should view/treat his teacher - or just women in general?

Christ almighty - WOMEN ARE NOT PIECES OF MEAT!

[LWolf]

55. It's a reflection

of the way our culture thinks of both women and teachers.

As far as NCLB goes, I've posted ad nauseum for years, and while DU is willing to say it's bad, they haven't been willing to actively oppose it.

The draft coming up in Congress when it returns is up for review. I'm poring through it, and will have quite a bit to say when I get through it.

[mzteris]

16. OMG HOW DISGUSTING

is that?

That is just WRONG on SO MANY LEVELS.

Disrepectful to teachers. WOMEN in general. Men/boys - you name it.

In today's climate - I canNOT imagine what the hell they were thinking.

That's just :puke:

[Sadie4629]

17. Please tell me what it shows

I have dial-up. It would probably take an hour to load.

[LWolf]

22. See post # 13. n/t

[dsc]

20. Simply disgusting

They should be, but surely aren't, ashamed of themselves.

[CurtEastPoint]

24. Thank you for letting us know about this.

I USED to like Hardee's. I wrote to them expressing my extreme disgust.

I also wrote to the NEA and to the AFT to let them know how their professionals are being mocked and held in disrespect. Perhaps these two organizations can flex a little mu$cle!!

[LWolf]

77. Thank you!

I, too, wrote to the parent company and the NEA.

[Jed Dilligan]

26. You know, the easy way to erase disrespect for teachers

would be to double their salaries. To the kids in this society, that makes all the difference.

[LWolf]

30. I'm on board for that, lol.

Double my salary and I could fix the leaky roof! :D

[Jed Dilligan]

32. Imagine, also, if there was actually competition for that empty classroom

instead of the school scraping the barrel for whomever they can get.

[LWolf]

37. That's a regional issue.

In my old district, 1,000 miles and a state away, there was a teacher shortage. Classrooms were filled with anybody who showed up with a credential.

In my current district, there are 60 - 90 applicants for every opening. If I'd known the competition was that stiff, I probably wouldn't have had the courage to toss my resume into the ring!

Interestingly enough, I took a massive pay cut to come to the district with more competition. A full 1/3 cut in salary, plus I now have to pay for my own benefits. The cost of living is no lower here.

[Jed Dilligan]

38. That's weird, but I guess it's regional

I have a friend who has been a "sub" for about ten years now--meaning he's the year-round teacher in the same fifth grade classroom year after year. He has a BA but has never set foot in any kind of teacher education classroom. Recruitment is quite abysmal throughout my state, I'm afraid.

[LWolf]

40. Some of it has to do with growth.

My old district was in a rapidly growing area. Housing tracts went up much faster than we could build schools, and we recruited teachers not just from all over the nation, but from Canada as well. The district gained at least one new school a year, often more. To replace teachers that moved and retired as well as fill new school openings was a challenge.

My new district is in a smaller, formerly rural area. The quality of life is higher, which attracts a lot of prospective teachers. I say "formerly" rural, because, while we still have plenty of ranches, pastures, farms, and open land, the area has attracted many people moving into the area, and the housing tracts are mushrooming up all over, eating up former pastures. The growth boom is in the early stages, but I've seen it before. :(

[OzarkDem]

36. No guarantee

After putting two kids through k-12 in well funded school districts in very nice suburbs with good supportive parents I've come to realize:

there are many (as many as 1/3) people in the teaching profession who don't belong there

teacher training at the university level has gotten waay off base and is leaving most teachers who graduated in the last 20 years with inadequate training to do their jobs properly

a disturbing trend towards putting the needs of students second or third to advancing the interests of schools and teachers, e.g. eliminating most phys ed classes and selling junk food to enhance the school's bottom line.

Throwing more money at this problem won't help, unless its used as an opportunity to:

make drastic reforms in teacher education that emphasizes high quality, evidence based educational training

retrain or hire new teachers and administrators who are capable and motivated and who are willing to take responsibility for classes

[midnight]

42. I agree with what your saying....

[LWolf]

46. I disagree.

With your (1/3).

I don't think you can quantify a percentage of the teaching population based on one parent's experiences.

I've worked in two states and districts, one of them a very large district, and worked with literally hundreds of teachers over the last 2.5 decades. I've certainly worked with people I thought didn't fit the profession, but it wasn't 1/3 of them.

I didn't list them and rate them, so I can't give you an accurate figure, but I'd estimate maybe 10% or less were people who didn't belong in the profession at all. Another 10% or so who needed mentors and more training and experience, but who had the potential to do the job well. I'm sure this plays out differently across the nation, in every state and district. That's just my experience in my 1,000 mile range. ;)

I think the point being made is that if you doubled the teaching salary, many of those people who don't even consider the profession because of the low pay would compete, and the pool we hire from would increase in quantity and quality.

As far as drastic reforms go, that's a whole new topic and post. First, you'd have to get rid of the corrupt NCLB, and the corruption that has flourished under it. Then you'd have to be willing to invest in restructuring the system to allow for what we already know really works.

Note: We already know what really works. We are hampered in our efforts by structural, budgetary, and legislative constraints. I don't think the U.S. wants to invest the money in providing what really works to all students, and I know that the general population resists change and would resist efforts at restructuring. If you want to discuss this further, though, head on over to the Ed forum and start a post. I'll be glad to spend more time on it!

[Ishoutandscream2]

48. Good post, and spot on

[OzarkDem]

52. I agree on some of your points

First, I'm coming from the POV of a parent who is well educated and attended school with education students but worked in a different field. My 1/3 figure includes not just teachers who aren't fit for the job, but also those who aren't adequately trained or choose not to follow their training, but branch off on their own, not necessarily in a good way. These are committed people who enjoy their work, but can't teach very well. There are some teachers who take advantage of their control over students and lack of oversight and regular interaction with other adults to selectively abuse students. Those also shouldn't be teaching.


I agree to an extent that "we already know what works", but differ on whether that is applied. My undergraduate degree was in child psychology with emphasis on cognitive development. I assure you in my state (Ohio) few of the basic tenets of how children learn are being incorporated into education here. There is a lot of pop psychology and weird educational theories proposed by businesses wishing to sell educational materials and training programs, but they are not grounded in evidence based learning theory.

Bottom line, my kids and others like them struggled in K-12 and dealt with endless summer school and tutoring to graduate with low self esteem, low to middling grades and comments from teachers that they wouldn't amount to much. The eldest is an A student in college and the other dually enrolled in college and high school classes. Both hated high school and do excellent when they're away from it. Teachers and administrators shouldn't be allowed to create such a dysfunctional system, but because of little oversight, they do.

[LWolf]

53. On your second paragraph:

That is exactly right.

I would point out, though, that in the current system, when a school doesn't make AYP for a couple of years, THE WHOLE DISTRICT has to come up with an improvement plan which must be approved by higher ups.

Guess what? Cognitive development doesn't play a part in the plan. The plan will not be approved unless it includes the "science" promoted by the Bush admin, which means using the scripted programs and trainers that are closely related to the Bush family and the right-wing power structure.

We have spent enough money and time on this garbage since the high-stakes testing and accountabililty "movement" took off to reduce class size and train every teacher in the U.S. in brain-based learning, multiple intelligences, how to embed higher-level thinking into the curriculum, and how to differentiate to meet the needs of every student. Those aren't things that come with scripted corporate programs and trainings.

I have counseled colleagues in tears because they were "written up" for deviating from a script to address a student's curiosity, or because they deviated from a "pacing schedule" to reteach something that students weren't "getting."

I have listened to the admins blatantly order their staffs to teach to the test, and I have sat through staff meetings where we went over test results and were instructed to focus our time, attention, and efforts on the "bubble" students. I have listened to an "approved" trainer do staff development in a district of 28,000 students tell the teachers that the students didn't count, only the numbers did, and that their job was to manage the numbers. "Data Works," if you'd like to know the name of that particular NCLB approved provider of staff development.

These things aren't going to change by replacing teachers. Start where it counts, at the top, and create a structure that allows teachers to actually serve the needs of their students. Give it a few years to develop. THEN look to see which teachers are ineffective. You may find your pool of teachers that aren't doing a good job has been significantly reduced already.

[OzarkDem]

69. I'm reluctant to say

Most of the years my kids were in school were during the Clinton years, when educators had the freedom and encouragement to do things. The teachers in our area (two different school districts) didn't even understand cognitive development. The Clinton years were the years when teachers and administrators got caught up in every ridiculous educational fad that came down the pike.

I recall my oldest son going through the whole year of third grade with a young enthusisastic teacher with her masters working on her PhD dissertation. Her lesson plans were clever, but he never did a single page of math exercises the entire year. She just didn't bother to teach math to the kids, other than teaching them how to make change in some silly project. The poor kids had to spend the next year trying to catch up on their basic math skills, then were quickly dumped into algebra. It was insane. Yet she ended up getting her work published in a teaching journal - which told me a lot about the quality of peer review in educational journals.

[LWolf]

72. It's ok.

I've known a few teachers like that, although they were in the minority.

Here are a few things you should know:

When a teacher is not competent, you may not see the machinations going on behind the scenes to solve the problem, but I can guarantee you that SOMETHING is happening. Other teachers don't like it either; after all, we get the unprepared kids the next year!

The Clinton years were not full of freedom. The "standards and accountability movement" started long before it made it to washington as NCLB. There were state battles going on, and it started at the state level. Under Pete Wilson in CA, where I taught. During the Clinton years. TX and FL, of course, but there were other states ahead of the NCLB curve as well.

The current mess is a bipartisan mess.

[LibDemAlways]

27. First the Paris Hilton soft core ad and now this. In their

quest to shake the stodgy conservative image, they've completely jumped the shark.

[mzteris]

28. CONTACT LINK:

http://www.ckr.com/contact.html

Please write - and forward for all to write.

[LWolf]

29. Will do, and thank you. n/t

[iamthebandfanman]

31. hadnt you heard?

those teachers are 'elitest'
and thats just not alright to them country folk.
lol


btw, i always get a kick outa hearing right nutties call our side intellectial elites.... as if thats a bad thing.... yeah... smart people running the government... oh god!
lol

[Jim__]

33. It would be nice if carl jr's business dropped after releasing this.

Nice, but unexpected.

[Zomby Woof]

39. First, we kill the administrators

There would be no better tribute to teachers, or a better way to get the tools and the power back in their hands, then gutting the bloated, top-heavy, self-satisfied circle jerk of school administrators.

[LWolf]

43. Heh.

Can we start at the top, with Margaret Spellings, work our way down to state superintendents, then to districts, and finally to school sites?

I've always advocated turning the system upside down and putting the power to make decisions in local hands with teachers and parents. Admins should be facilitating the decisions made by the stakeholders, not setting the policies.

But then, I've never really fit the system I work in.

[ulysses]

54. !

:D Gotta give Maestro a pass, though...

[Zomby Woof]

58. No doubt!

Maestro does not fit the paradigm. :-)

When I was in college, some of my core education classes for certification were with future administrators. Two of them outright admitted they were doing it for the money, and that they had no interest in teaching. I could have whipped them both with a 2x4.

The best administrators (there are some, of course) were former teachers. My geography professor in college was once the president of the university, but loved teaching so much, when he retired from the presidency (a 16 year tenure) he was welcomed back in the classroom.

More like him and Maestro, and fewer like those classmates of mine.

[ulysses]

60. some friends of mine

in the masters program think that there's a hidden class somewhere in the ed. leadership program that makes participants forget what it's like to be a teacher. :D

:toast: to your geo prof and Maestro!

[LWolf]

78. That's the truth.

My current administrator taught for 25 years before she shifted into the office as a principal. She's still strongly connected to the classroom, and it makes a difference.

In the worst of climates, which is certainly what we've experienced under NCLB, a principal whose top priority is to support teachers and students is a winner. Support from the front office eases the inevitable stresses and makes everything run more smoothly.

[msongs]

41. teachers need training in managing criminal populations nt

[salin]

45. So wrong - on so many levels.

I hope there is a backlash to this ad campaign.

[BlooInBloo]

56. I'm on board for tripling/quadrupling their salaries - attracting a better grade of intellect.

[ulysses]

62. would you join us in the classroom if the pay was greater?

Lord knows we need the intellect...

[BlooInBloo]

64. I've put in my tour (7 years) - so I'm not rhetorically obligated, but....

.... if the pay got to the quadruple-plus area, I'd be a fool not to consider it.

Most satisfying job and most exhausting job pretty much cancel each other out - if you throw comparable-pay-to-what-I-can-get-elsewhere into the mix, it's plausible that the balance tips positively.

[ulysses]

65. cool.

Because, lest it not be said enough, we certainly need your intellect...

[BlooInBloo]

66. Nothing special about mine. The profession needs *anyone's*.

[Nutmegger]

57. This is from the same place that aired the "soft-core" porn commercials of Hilton.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/24/news/newsmakers/carls_ad/index.htm

Disgusting to say the least.

[kdmorris]

59. That video is disgusting and offensive on so many levels

that I can't even figure out where to start.

1) Completely disrespectful to teachers.

2) Completely disrespectful to women in general.

3) Lacks any and all sense.

4) WTF???

[Katherine Brengle]

61. What the FUCK?

I think I'm going to vomit.

[BlooInBloo]

63. What's new about this? Am I the only one who remembers Van Halen's Hot For Teacher?

Am I the only one who clearly recalls typical boys of that age finding one or more of their teachers smokingly hot?

Yah, it's disrespectful, on several levels, but I'm at a complete loss to find anything NEW about this.

[2beToby]

73. It's not so much about the fantasies

of teenagers. Teens didn't make the commercial. I think the new level is how a burger joint is indulging kids in that type of fantasy and somewhat encouraging kids to think of their teachers, and women in general, as tools for their own entertainment. We don't need that in our schools (as a teacher) and we don't need that as a society (as a man who has sisters and a very young son).

I wouldn't say it's disrespectful for a kid to fantasize about their teacher, that's just part of growing up, for both boys and girls. It is disrespectful for parents, producers and other adults to say, yeah, you're teacher's a hottie, what do you think of his/her butt? That's a topic that should stay in the kid's head or between friends.

Mind you, I looked up Halen's song and read up on the video, but I'm not sure it shows the same level of disrespect. I was in a class where a girl actually grabbed our teacher's rear in the hallway. She even got away with it because he couldn't prove she did it on purpose. We were in 8th grade at the time (1998). We have a real problem on our hands concerning teaching kids what's appropriate and when and where it's appropriate, and we need more adults jumping in and saying, 'no, keep this urge/thought/fantasy to yourself. It's time to work now.'

[AwakeAtLast]

81. Van Halen wasn't selling food.

But that did remind me of thier video.

[MilesColtrane]

67. This commercial has been calculated to create controversy.

Look at the way companies market to teens and tweens.

Kids actively look for movies, clothes, and music their parents and teachers don't like in an attempt to distinguish themselves and begin to establish some kind of identity.

Carl's Jr. is hoping for an outcry over this.

This commercial is offensive and moronic, but so are the fantasies that fill the heads of teenage boys the majority of the time, and so are most of the commercials that appear on TV.

[sandnsea]

68. THIS? this is disgusting??

What a bunch of hypocrites.

[qdemn7]

70. The level of disrespect

Would not be so great were it not for the "Zero Tolerance" bullshit so endemic to education these days. And it's not just administrators at fault, teacher aid and abet this. Respect is a two-way street, you want teachers to be respected then they need to respect their students and not treat them all like potential criminals. Just the latest example of ZT hysteria:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1645817#1645962

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1646591

[2beToby]

74. Zero Tolerance stinks

but so does lack of discipline. I was in zero tolerance schools in middle and high school and often ended up on the wrong side of those policies. One size does NOT fit all, and we shouldn't expect it to. However, I think Zero Tolerance programs are the wrong solution to a problem that really does need to be fixed. The problem is kids who come into a classroom as if they own it.

Imagine yourself standing in front of 28 twelve year olds. Almost all of them feel they are forced to be there. About 20 of them are listening, four of them are too tired or too hungry to really pay attention, three are talking to each other (because their own conversation is infinitely more interesting than adverbs, I admit that readily) and one kid decides s/he just doesn't care. That kid jumps up and starts arguing with you about why they need to know how to write fancy anyway? I won't go down the list of approaches to handling this situation, but I will say that if the kid really doesn't care (or really does care) there is absolutely nothing you can do to salvage that class day. All it takes is one kid who doesn't care if you call their parents, and doesn't care if they get in trouble at school. And there are A LOT of kids who don't care if you call their parents. Now, 27 kids are a day behind in English lessons, because ONE kid decided not to be force fed grammar. Not to mention the three you need to talk to for speaking through class and the four you'd like to split your own lunch with so they don't go hungry tonight.

Truth be told, if kids decided across the board not to do what is expected of them in school, there would be nothing teachers could do about it. Scenario below...

Teacher : "You have detention after school today because you wouldn't stop using profanity in my class."
Student : "I'm not going."
Teacher : "If you don't go, I'll have to call your parents, send you to the VP and you'll get three more days of detention."
Student : "I don't care, I won't go to those either."
Teacher : "I don't think your Mom/Dad/Grandparent would be happy with your actions right now."
Student : "I don't care. I don't want to do this assignment/expletive anymore. I'm going to do what I want."
Teacher : "You may end up suspended from school."
Student : "GOOD!"

We need to teach that respect IS a two-way road, and that authority is often in place for a reason. That doesn't mean authority shouldn't be questioned, but there are ways to do that without being disrespectful. There is a sense of entitlement that as a 21 year old teacher, I fully admit was rampant in my own high school classes a few years ago. So, I agree with you, kill Zero Tolerance and bring back a sense of self-pride and responsibility (for teachers, students and parents!)

[qdemn7]

75. Damn good post!

I agree with everything you said! :toast:

[LWolf]

82. "Zero tolerance" begins at the top, btw.

Not in the classroom. It begins as political grandstanding in the face of problems endemic in overcrowded, understaffed environments.

Top-down policies handed down by the bosses have to be enforced in the classroom whether they originate there or not.

Most teachers would like a higher level of support with behavior problems. That doesn't mean "zero tolerance," it means changing the behavior, which, of course, takes time and resources that aren't available.

Respect is a roundabout with many outlets, lol. I agree that students need to feel respected by adults. How else will they learn to respect others, if the adults in their lives don't model that?

[Oeditpus Rex]

71. This must be the 'flat buns' ad

I saw it for the first time a few nights ago, and I was rather appalled — particularly since it was within a couple of days of the outcry over the video focusing on the fifth-grade teacher's butt posted at YouTube. (She wound up on "Good Morning, America" because of it.)

Carl's Jr. does listen, though — or, at least, they used to. I e-mailed them a few years ago about their "If it doesn't get all over the place..." campaign; the amplified sound of someone chewing a hamburger with that of dollops of condiments splattering on their clothes disgusted me. I got back e-mail that said they were re-evaluating elements of the campaign, and within about a month, it was pulled.

[LWolf]

83. I hope they listen.

They are certainly hearing from people, lol.

I remember the ads you're talking about. Smack, smack, smack, SPLOT!

[RPM]

80. Carl's Jr. - Fuck you, I'm eating...

(couldnt find the clip from Idiocracy...)

[NaturalHigh]

84. Annoying and stupid...

but I don't really see how it's offensive.