RB TexLa
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:23 PM
Original message |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 10:18 PM by RGBolen
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Starbucks Anarchist
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:24 PM
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BattyDem
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
OhioChick
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:24 PM
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razors edge
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:25 PM
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if we paid for no treatment necessitated by obesity.
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bluestateguy
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:25 PM
Response to Original message |
4. I got it: Just let all the sick people die! |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 09:32 PM by bluestateguy
Why didn't I think of that?
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RB TexLa
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 10:24 PM by RGBolen
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azurnoir
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
10. So healthy people are immortal? LOL n/t |
azurnoir
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:28 PM
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7. Along with the money saving stats |
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lets get some on how much smokers pay in taxes to both and federal governments, so drop those and then we'll talk. Oh yes lets not forget the smoking lawsuit settlements those also came out of the pockets of smkers
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RB TexLa
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 10:24 PM by RGBolen
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azurnoir
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
15. Exactly you are profiting from |
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others addiction, why not just deal heroin cut out the middle man.
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RB TexLa
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 10:24 PM by RGBolen
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azurnoir
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
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this is a weird thread are you feeling ornery?
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ISUGRADIA
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:29 PM
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*buzz* cut it out yourself. Yeah, that will work. So insurance does not pay, what do we do, let people just die?
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RB TexLa
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 10:24 PM by RGBolen
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Cerridwen
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:30 PM
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12. 1st hand or 2nd hand? We could keep the kids off whose parents |
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smoke and the spouses (SOs) of those who smoke and those who work around cigarette smoke; take Vegas casinos completely out of the mix.
Oh, and speaking of kids, I hear pregnancy and child-birth are extremely dangerous so we could exclude them, too.
Anyone who drives over the speed-limit, ever. Let's not forget those who live with stress of any kind; that causes all kinds of health problems.
I'm sure we'll get many other fine examples in this thread, as well.
Just in case I guess I'll add this :sarcasm: and this :popcorn:
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Warren Stupidity
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:30 PM
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13. Hey we could exclude sick people! |
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Oh wait, we already do that.
Uh no thanks on your wonderful idea. Quite frankly it is evil.
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Cleita
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
20. Yes, the insurance companies do already do that, which is |
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why we have a healthcare crisis to begin with.
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baldguy
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:31 PM
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14. Or injuries suffered in car accidents |
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If they weren't wearing their seatbelt, or speeding, or making an illegal turn, following to close, didn't yield the right-of-way...
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Deja Q
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:32 PM
Response to Original message |
16. How about a compromise; have a person get more benefits as they prove they are improving themselves? |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 09:32 PM by HypnoToad
That way one can still start with coverage, but if they don't shape up or improve from their base point, they'd lose?
We all have to do our part, but there are plenty of reasons WHY people engage in self-destructive patterns in the first place. Typically depression due to ambient stress... Oh, since stress is a big reason why people get and can't eliminate BELLY FAT, maybe our society has to do something to help reduce stress?
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Warren Stupidity
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
26. You are actually serious. |
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What a joke. Perhaps we could fund another huge bloated federal agency: The Department of Health Security, to patrol our lifestyles?
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lynne
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:34 PM
Response to Original message |
18. How about alcohol use?? We could exclude both alcohol related disease & accidents - |
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- a DOUBLE PLAY!!! :bounce:
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Cleita
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message |
19. No one should be denied health care even if they are |
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responsible for their illness. That isn't liberal nor compassionate. I suppose next we should deny coverage for people who get sick from toxins in their environment because they chose to live near a toxic dump or lake. Where does it stop?
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whistle
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:39 PM
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21. How about no health care costs for sexual related illnesses |
Colorado Progressive
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
30. Quick way to get rid of humans! nt |
whistle
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Tue Sep-04-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
33. Exactly, humans get sick amd need heathcare but the right wing is always |
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...trying to find ways for blaming illnesses on the person. Always! Then the logical next step by RW is to not pay for the health care of humans who get those illnesses. :wtf:
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backscatter712
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:41 PM
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22. It might save money, but it would be very, very cruel. |
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Emphysema and lung cancer are horrible diseases. To tell someone suffering from them "Sorry, you're SOL, because you smoked and brought it upon yourself." would be inhuman.
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Double T
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:44 PM
Response to Original message |
23. Great. Then they can refuse treatment to alcohol drinkers, sports enthusiastes,....... |
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race car drivers, construction workers, miners, popcorn factory workers, or anyone else that puts themselves in a hazardous or dangerous environment, situation or workplace.
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Warren Stupidity
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:46 PM
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24. Really? How you going to do that? |
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"I will never file a health insurance claim for something related to my smoking"
that is ridiculous. How are you going to pay for lung cancer surgery? How are you going to pay for anything if you get disabled with emphysema? I simply don't believe you on this, talk is cheap, internet chat is even cheaper.
Your idea is hideous. Single payer systems reduce overall healthcare costs right off the bat by eliminating the rent extraction from the insurance industry. Simply requiring everyone who is working and their employers to pay in will provide adequate funding for a healthcare system just as good as the currently far superior ones found in other major industrialized democracies.
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RB TexLa
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 10:25 PM by RGBolen
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Warren Stupidity
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
28. Until proven otherwise I consider your promise bullshit. |
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I'm sure you intend to not get treated for lung cancer, I just don't believe you will carry through with it.
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treestar
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message |
29. Not enough proof of linkage |
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Some people get lung cancer without smoking.
Granted we know it's not good for someone, but the bureaucracy will not be able to handle the determination on whether the person smoked enough for the exclusion.
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Manifestor_of_Light
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Tue Sep-04-07 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
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Beverly Sills, famous opera singer, died of lung cancer and obviously never smoked.
Dana Reeve, widow of Christopher Reeve, died of lung cancer due to secondhand smoke from being a nightclub singer. Not from smoking.
People can get emphysema and die from that too, without ever smoking.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message |
31. Then your insurer will never cover your costs again |
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Because they can and will rule that any condition you suffer from is aggravated by smoking, and refuse to pay.
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Colorado Progressive
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Tue Sep-04-07 09:58 PM
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32. I think the last thing we need is MORE pre-existing conditions/exclusions |
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Edited on Tue Sep-04-07 10:00 PM by Colorado Progressive
I think most Americans have a vice of some sort that causes health problems. For instance, sitting in a cat 5 hurricane saying "Jesus will protect me". (that quote was actually from someone riding out Felix (edit)but it applies to many Americans too.)
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mrreowwr_kittty
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Tue Sep-04-07 10:01 PM
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34. Smokers die earlier and use less long term nursing care |
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That more than offsets the cost of their illnesses. If people adopted healthier lifestyles en masse, it might actually cost more in the long run, that's why I don't necessarily support the argument that we should have universal health care because it will save money. I think we should have it because it is the moral thing to do for our citizens.
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cherokeeprogressive
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Tue Sep-04-07 10:02 PM
Response to Original message |
35. So a kid who lives in the L.A. basin gets lung cancer... |
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Who's gonna say whether the kid got cancer from firsthand cigarette smoke, secondhand, or air pollution?
What a hoot your suggestion is!
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ChromeFoundry
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Tue Sep-04-07 10:06 PM
Response to Original message |
37. All this would do is increase profits |
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for the insurers... United Health Care posted their largest profits in their history last year. I had this insurance, and my groups costs increased January 1st.
This is a ridiculous idea, that because a corporation is saving money it would be passed on to you, the consumer. They'll fuck you every which way to Sunday if it means larger profits to them.
Oil, Pharmicudicals and Insurance all operate in this manner.
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Lars39
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Tue Sep-04-07 10:08 PM
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38. You expect a pat on the back for denying people health care? |
valerief
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Tue Sep-04-07 10:18 PM
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39. Let's just get rid of the docs and nurses. We can use monkeys instead. |
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That's what the chimperor would really like.
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Warren Stupidity
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Wed Sep-05-07 05:51 AM
Response to Original message |
40. Ok this is perhaps the worst case of editing one's own posts |
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that I have ever seen.
RGBolen, for the record, proposed that in his version of single payer universal healthcare smokers would be denied coverage in order to save money.
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LeftishBrit
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Wed Sep-05-07 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
41. I strongly disagree with that |
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Tax cigarettes and put the tax into the health service; but I am strongly against the government using something like health care to reward or punish people's lifestyles.
Health care isn't a privilege that you have to earn; it's a right.
And as someone said upthread, people with healthy lifestyles may cost the systen just as much in the end, as they are more likely to live to be very old.
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