Should a Recommendation = a Kick?

[joeunderdog]

I've wondered why if you recommend a post--possibly one of the nicer statements you could make about it--why it doesn't just get kicked up to the top of the heap. Writing "K&R" to bump it up isn't such a bad thing, but some people might just hit recommend. In the end, a few really good posts that get a bunch or recommendations just sink to oblivion.

Is it possible to kick a post that gets recommended?

[helderheid]

1. I like this. K & R ;)

[bananas]

2. I agree. nt

[Richard Steele]

3. I think quite a few of us agree. I've seen the idea mentioned more than once. nm

[BuyingThyme]

4. You have a point. Some people don't like to go on record

(for fear of attacks and the like) so they recommend without posting to the thread.

[BuyingThyme]

6. BUT, some threads get so many recommendations,

that the kicks would be excessive.

[intheflow]

10. But what's wrong with that?

I've seen a lot of silly threads kicked excessively as inside jokes. If the thread has merrit, it should be kicked often. If not, it will die a natural death as usual.

[BuyingThyme]

14. Double kickertation is specifically banned by the Constitution.

We should be setting an example... for the children.

[Mabus]

12. Unless

you allow a vote to recommend to act as a kick for the first five times (or 10 or X number of times). At that point it has made it to the "greatest page" and will generate its own visibility there.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. I Always Thought So. Ever See The Posts With One Reply But 20 Recs?

They fall right down the page yet are valuable. I absolutely think recs should receive some sort of bump effect.

[UTUSN]

7. Yip, a "R" doesn't keep a thread from sinking like a rock without a "K"

It's heartwarming to see threads being recommended without posts in it, but the threads go DOWN!!1

[Olney Blue]

8. What is the explanation for the current system? Anyone know?

[goclark]

9. To me a kick is something that you want to

keep kicked because it is an INFORMATION thread and you want people to keep on kicking so that more people can vote in the CNN poll for example.


It may not be the most brilliant thread that deserves recommendation for GREATEST, IMO, but it will keep something going so that others can read it.

The Greatest, IMO, means it is a MUST READ for just about everyone.

[Boojatta]

11. People can read it even if it isn't kicked.

It may not be the most brilliant thread that deserves recommendation for GREATEST, IMO, but it will keep something going so that others can read it.

Anyone who contributed to the thread can add the contribution to her (or his) journal. Every journal can also include the OP in a blogroll.

The Greatest, IMO, means it is a MUST READ for just about everyone.

It's a must read because five out of maybe fifty, a hundred, or even more viewers of the thread recommended it? That's not very persuasive to me.

[joeunderdog]

17. What I meant is that an R deserved a K, not that a K deserved an R.

I think what you are saying is that people will R it to K it, and that that would water down the Greatest list. I supposet that's possible, but I don't think people will abandon just using the old Kick when it's necessary. I don't think they're one and the same.

I just see the auto-K as a reasonable acknowledgement/reward if someone thought enough of a post to Recommend it. Recommending a post for the Greatest Page is essentially a strong statement on the OP, though one without text. For that reason, I think it should get the same bump as other posts that get text responses. That's all.

[intheflow]

13. I've often thought this same thing.

It seems like pointless thing, just giving threads a K&R. If there is something to be said, then I'd like to post, but otherwise, it just seems like busy work to write "k&r n/t."

There are a lot of good threads that do not need any comments, but should be read. And it's also true, as someone else noted, that there are many times when I just don't feel like getting into it with other members, but I still want to support a thread. I would love to see a recommendation equal a kick.

:kick: :P

[the other one]

15. This would be a worthwhile change.

Is it time to increase the number of recommends needed for the greatest page?

[Marnieworld]

16. Maybe

But maybe by adding the "kick" step it encourages discussion because if you have to type a post you might as well say something. This is a discussion board after all.

And sometimes maybe you want to respond but not necessarily rec'd. I've seen very long threads of good discussion but the actual OP isn't necessarily one that you rec'd.

Just my 2cents. I'd be happy in DUland no matter what.

[joeunderdog]

28. Yeah, but a simple kick does not really have content. nt

[BlooInBloo]

18. I think they're different things, so there should be different ways to do them.

[Rosemary2205]

19. Yes. nt

[LWolf]

20. Yes. n/t

[TahitiNut]

21. Consider ...

The threads within a forum are, by default, listed in order of those most recently containing new posts, assumedly in furtherance of a discussion that (hopefully) adds something to that discussion WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION. (That would be the an approximation of a "perfect world" where people limited their 'contributions' to that which deserved attention from others.) Thus, we have "marking" and other mechanisms for keeping track of discussions which WE'VE ALREADY READ. This is how it actually works in smaller forums and many of us, including me, actually read ALL of the discussions/posts in those forums as they are actually extended.

Once upon a time, I actually did the same in the General Discussion forum. I would read EVERY thread and keep track of ongoing discussions. Sometimes it took time. A lot of time. Perhaps 2-3 hours each day. In 2002-2003, MOST DUers didn't make 'noise' posts and only added to a thread when they had something to say that had not yet been said.

Then it became a "chat room". Believe it or not, some of us actually resisted this and implored others to not treat a threaded forum as though it were a chat room. To no avail. Some of us, believe it or not, lobbied the PTB at DU to actually implement a Chat Room to alleviate the apparent demand for such interaction. To no avail.

The forum software is designed to accommodate and facilitate far more contemplation and calm consideration that many posts contain. As a former software designer/architect, I have to emphasize the fact that a software designer must have a paradigm (a vision) of the social sue of that software. The overall design and tools for well-architected software will always match some vision of what the designers had in mind. What tends to be confusing is the fact that the most well-designed software will also make it easy to hammer away at it in ways not foreseen or intended.

There's a software way to meet the desires of those seeking the immediate gratification of making a one-liner comment and receiving the feedback of another person appreciating or deprecating that comment. That's what IRC and other "chat room" software does. The headlong rush to use the DU software in ways inconsistent with the design paradigm are doomed to have a result that's CONTRARY to the more basic desires of the user community: cause the software to break down under the load. I still think the DU community would be well-served to have a chat room adjunct. Indeed, I think that's why the software accommodates profiles that include our Instant Messaging accounts - Instant Messaging under Yahoo! or AOL that also have chat room functions. I think it's a shame that extending this community in such a direction and incorporating those functions in our everyday interactions has not bee addressed in a more thoughtful fashion - possibly to save money on servers and communally create a far richer archive of discussions leavened with far less garbage.

Nonetheless, I understand the desire and am ambivalent - knowing that, even in posting this, I'm pissing into the wind.

[yowzayowzayowza]

23. "Into the wind"

Kinda came at the problem from another angle:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x98934

But alas I'm jus glad watz here is so reliable!!! ELad :yourock:

[annabanana]

24. Sometimes a post that is "discussion worthy"

requires information that I may not have. I can recommend it to try and move it up the "greatest" page, AND I can kick it to move it back to the top of the topic page where wiser eyes than mine will be more apt to spot it.

Just because I may not be able to add much to the discussion doesn't mean that I don't think some of the sages (and activists) here WOULD, were they to see it. There is so much information that goes through the fast forums that no one can spot it all.

(and that is MY excuse for silly one-liners)

.

.


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(some of them)

[TahitiNut]

27. As I feared, the point of my post wasn't clear.

Perhaps it requires experience with Usenet. I don't know. What I tried (apparently unsuccessfully) to describe was the manner in which the design of the DU forum software PRESUMES someone uses the forum. It presumes a 'catch-up' review of ALL topics within a forum, from that topic next updated after the person last read the forum to that topic most recently updated, quite possibly by that person themselves. That's what the "Mark" function is all about. That's what "Previous Thread" is all about.

It's NOT about some prioritization of (and competition for) attention. What 'kick' is all about is competing for the attention of the reader, not about allowing the reader to comprehensively read through the entire forum with a minimum of 'noise.' In kicking, people are attempting to hijack the 'most recent'/'less recent' order of threads and use it to reflect their sense of priorities - instead of it being a convenience for the reader 'catching up.'

To understand what I mean apparently requires one to discard the assumption that 'front page' reflects some sense of importance - or that people merely read the 'front page.' (Many do, of course, since they don't feel capable of 'catch up' anymore, with the HUGE amount of traffic/noise, particularly in GD.)

Like I say, I'm pissing into the wind. :shrug: (Fetching towel.)

[Time for change]

22. I've wondered about that

Not sure I have an opinion on it, but I've wondered about it.

One time I had 11 recommends on a post and not a single K. I had to kick it myself to get it off the second or third page. At least one other post of mine had over a hundred Ks and no Rs. Go figure.

[mmonk]

25. May as well put effort into it if it's meaningful.

[suziedemocrat]

26. good idea. k&r