Why did the majority of UF students ...

[SHRED]

...watch, clap, and/or smile?
I only saw about 2 girls shriek in horror.

If their asses were on the line, like in the 1960's when the draft was in full swing, do you think they would be giggling?

Not that the draft is an answer but these soft college kids should take a lesson from the Boomers they frequently bad mouth so much.
If this happened on a campus in 1968 you can bet that those campus cops would not have been cheered on and that the kids would have jumped in.

I truly saw the ugly side of America yesterday.
Fat and happy kids all to content with letting authority figures "handle" a situation.
Not only content but actually welcoming it with smiles, laughter, and clapping.

I know I am painting with a broad brush here but I am still pissed and disgusted, and with many here who condone this.

Things will only change when the powers that be start to fear us.
Passive complacency gives the green light to authority figures.
How much of a statement, and inspiration, would have reverberated across this country if the students jumped in and defended that kid?
Instead, what we have is an "authority figure inspirational clip" with many cheering them on.

Achtung Baby!

---

[cali]

1. Being tased yesterday was the best thing that ever happened

to that little huckster. His self-proclaimed goal in life is grab attention by heckling and disrupting. He should have been subdued and arrested without tasering, but I have less than zero sympathy for him. As for the others at the forum, jumping in would have put every one there in danger.

[SHRED]

4. the "best thing that ever happened"...

Are you serious?


---

[cali]

9. Completely.

He's an attention whore, trying to provoke situations. Why don't you support him by going to his self-promoting website and purchasing some of his merchandise.

No, I don't think the cops should have used a taser on him, even if he did resist arrest and swing at one of them. They should have been able to handle it without resorting to the taser.

Every fucking day in this country there are real cases of police brutality and gross abuses with tasers.

[SHRED]

12. "Why don't you support him ..."

Why don't you stop trying to flame bait?

[cali]

15. I don't support him because he infringed on others rights

because he's a little attention whore, and it's not flame bait to express that.

[loudsue]

42. You really are on a crusade about this, cali.

I find your heavily authoritarian attitude about this whole thing very dangerous.

[kdmorris]

6. Wow, how's that for "shades of grey"?

Weren't you just posting to another post concerning the "DU sheep" and how none of us can see shades of grey?

Pot.. kettle...

[cali]

11. hardly pot kettle

They shouldn't have tased him. He shouldn't have infringed on the rights of others and resisted arrest. And yes, after all the reading I've done, I am convinced he intentionally provoked the situation.

[kdmorris]

20. Maybe he did, but I hardly think it was

"the best thing that ever happened to him". THAT'S pretty black and white, cali. It really leaves NO room for moderation there, so yeah, it's pot and kettle. THIS post is grey, but that first one...

I'm not really on either side of this issue. I'm concerned about police brutality and the way that they are increasingly overstepping their bounds. BUT, if the collectively "we" wanted to have a rallying point, a person that we all look up to as a brave hero who "put it to the man", this guy ain't it. What about all the protesters that didn't do anything but stand there with a sign who got sprayed with rubber bullets, tasered and jailed? Why no three day post fest on that? (disclaimer: this question isn't really meant for YOU, per se. I just added it to the post to you)

[lateo]

10. Heaven forbid someone stand up for someone else's rights.

Sometimes you have to face danger to make sure you keep your own rights...and the chicken shit scum that laughed and sat while this young man was brutalized by the cops are worthless human beings.

[cali]

13. I'm not condoning the laughter

but he was the one who infringed on others rights by cutting in front of others and disrupting the forum.

[lateo]

34. What rights of theirs did he infringe on?

The right not to have someone cut in front of you in line? Is this one of the unalienable rights our founders spoke of? I think I missed that day in civics class.

[cali]

37. Goddamn fucking right

they have a right to speak too. He had NO right to disrupt, heckle and resist arrest. It's clear you're the one who missed civics class.

[Kazak]

24. I don't understand why...

those on the side of authority in this issue all feel the need to throw insults at this young man (huckster, asshole, etc...). 'Really unnecessarily exposes the weakness in your arguments, if you ask me... :shrug:

[KittyWampus]

32. If you actually investigated the FACTS of the matter and this guy's history, you'd know.

[Kazak]

35. Actually, I understand the FACTS fully...

It weakens the merits of your argument if you must resort to hyperbole in order to gain support for your position. :shrug: I just does.

[progressoid]

45. I don't understand why...

people who call this young man huckster, asshole etc... are assumed to be on the side of "authority". It is possible to see this kid as an attention seeking douchebag without taking the side of "authority".

Calling a spade a spade doesn't mean one supports a police state.

[Kazak]

47. Point taken, but irrelevant...

If you have to resort to hyperbole and personal attacks to gain support for your argument, what ever the argument may be (and granted I may have misconstrued exactly what the argument is) it weakens your point. :shrug:

[1monster]

2. These kids have been conditioned since preschool. They know no other way.

Go on to the campus of ANY middle or high school these days and look for the signs that are posted that the students lockers, bookbags, purses, vehicles, etc. are subject to search without warning and without probable cause. You won't have to look hard. They are posted all over the place.

There are "School Resource Officers" on every campus... infractions that used to bring detention for punishment are now punished with misdemeanor and criminal charges.

Drug sniffing dogs are stationed permanently in some schools and other schools get regular visits from the dogs.

The kids know no other way. They have been taught that a good citizen submits.

[Selatius]

3. Today's education system is not the same system the boomers grew up with.

From the moment they enter first grade, students are taught to obey authority and are taught the meaning of maintaining order. Even if it is only implied that one should stifle questions, the message is implied over and over again throughout a child's time in the public education system. Critical thinking is something not taught too often in public schools, and most school curricula only include cursory coverage of issues such as civil liberties, civics, personal finance, and economics and how they relate to life.

Maybe the reason why so many remained quiet is the same reason many of them feel that the 1st Amendment goes too far, at least according to one recent study.

[Romulox]

40. Agree 100%.

As a "non-traditional student" (Gen Xer) I am continually stunned by the conservatism and the slavish conformity of young people.

I think this lack is easily observed in their art, fashion, and music, which is anemic at best.

[KurtNYC]

48. How did we get from a guy wrestling cops to an endightment of a whole generation?

their art, fashion, and music,...is anemic at best.

Bad art will always be more plentiful than good in ANY generation. The Monkees outsold the Beatles. David (Keith Partridge) Cassidy was selling out stadiums. Etc.

I chalk it up to "culture vultures" -- corporate media creates their own gutted, homogenized version of edgey, something-to-say art and sells it as the icons of "your" generation. The very term "Gen X" was coined by marketers to talk about how and what to sell to us.

There ARE great Gen X and Gen Y artists and musicians but, as always, you have to look beyond the omnipresent crap.

Just because a few people clapped while this guy was being removed from the room doesn't mean that there are no great artists or musicians under 40.

[Romulox]

50. I'm sorry if my observation makes you upset, but I think it has merit

And we got there by observing how Generation "Go along to get along" actually enjoyed seeing one of their fellows roughed up.

"The Monkees outsold the Beatles."

While I sincerely doubt this is true over anything but a very short timespan, I'd still much rather listen to the Monkees than Britney.

"Just because a few people clapped while this guy was being removed from the room doesn't mean that there are no great artists or musicians under 40."

Yes, and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Still, the proof is in the pudding. If today's young people are producing great artists (musical or otherwise), they are keeping them well hidden from MTV, youtube, myspace, and other mass media outlets.

[rockymountaindem]

5. Because every time you go to some event like that

there's always one or two people who think that:

Their issues are the only issues
Their questions are the only ones which need answering
They shouldn't be satisfied until the person they're questioning/haranguing gives them the exact answer they want to hear

Everybody else who shows up for a calm, rational time can't stand those people. They get especially annoying once you realize that there's always one of them in a crowd, and that they aren't going to stop talking no matter what. I went to a debate between Norman Finkelstein and a representative of B'nai Brith once at the University of Toronto. Let me be clear: I was 100% not on Finkelstein's side. During the question and answer period, however, one elderly Jewish man got to the microphone and just started yelling at Finkelstein for over a minute. He wasn't asking a question. He was just raging at the guy, telling him he's a disgrace, that his parents should be ashamed, etc. That may be true, but it wasn't the time or the place to bring that up because nobody in the audience came to see that kind of thing. We came to see these two people on the stage debate, not listen to rants from the audience. There were plenty of police on hand and you can bet they started dragging him out, whereupon he left peacefully but was still yelling at Finkelstein as he walked out the door. IIRC, people were applauding his removal.

Of course, the difference was nobody pulled out a taser, which I don't think was necessary in this case. But did that Meyers guy deserve to be at the very least escorted out of there? You bet he did.

[SHRED]

22. We don't have enough "disruptions" ...

...in my opinion.

We need more and more.
We need the people of America to wake up.

We've had years and years of polite political "talk".
Time to get rude.


---

[Virginia Dare]

38. That's fine, but be prepared to be removed and/or arrested...

and if you resist arrest, be prepared to possibly get hurt.

[SHRED]

51. no problem...

...I have before and I will again.

Your little "warnings" are of zero concern, when held against the light of much bigger concepts like freedom and democracy.

---

[Scooter24]

7. If I was in the same situation,

I would have probably just let the police handle their business.

As horrific as it was to watch, the situation wouldn't have been worth putting my college career on the line.

[Kazak]

8. I'm recommending this...

I agree, and wondered about the same thing.

:shrug:

[Cobalt Violet]

26. That makes a whole 2 of us.

:wow: I'm so shocked and saddened to see this community so in favor excess police brutality as okay because they find the guy annoying.

[formerrepuke]

14. Its possible that at least some of the other students present were

familiar with the disruptor and his tactics. Many who went to college can recall at least one or two particularly noteworthy kids who never missed an opportunity to make a scene, regardless of the forum. I can recall one loudmouth who could have used a tasering... or a at least a decent bath (horrible B.O.)

[SHRED]

16. "...could have used a tasering"

This attitude right here is what I am talking about.

---

[jdlh8894]

29. Do you think "Billy Clubs" would have been better?n/t

[sleipnir]

17. Without a proper leader in the room, they took to laughing and did nothing.

Quite simple, they perceived an agent provocateur was being lead away and with no leader in the room, he was tasered and sent to prison. A leader is needed and one was not present.

[SHRED]

18. Bingo!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I Don't Know What To Think

Did the police use excessive force?

Most likely

At what point does anybody have the right to disrupt a proceeding?

I have seen Jimmy Buffett and the city manager of Hialeah* asked to leave the American Airlines Arena where the Miami Heat play because they had front row seats and were actively hollering at and distracting the referee(s)....

What if the young man never relinquished the microphone?

I'll leave the dualistic thinking to the Commander In Chief*... Sometimes life can't be wrapped up and put in a tidy box...Life's more complex than "you're with us or the terrorists"...




*not sure what city but was Miami or a city that's part of Metropolitan Miami...

[aikoaiko]

21. asshat + consequences of his actions^2 = schadenfreude

It's elementary, my friend.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zeemike]

25. My significant other went to UF from 1960-64

And she told me that they were in assembly when it was announced that JFK had been shot in Dallas
The whole student body stood up and cheered.
We forgot that Florida is the deep south and there were many that hated just as there apparently are now.

[SHRED]

28. You couple that with...

...our passive prescription drugged society and you have recipe for a jackbooted field day.

Where they say, "impeachment is off the table", and nobody even blinks.
Party loyalty at all costs.

---

[onenote]

27. because they saw the whole incident up close and can recognize a jerk when they see one?

He jumped ahead of other questioners, interrupted another person, basically acting like a spoiled brat. That's why.

[Stuckinthebush]

33. Look over here everyone! The best answer of the thread!

Of course, very few will read it or hear it.

Yes, the guy was a jerk and was being disruptive. People came to hear Kerry not some ass who wouldn't shut up about fucking Skull and Bones.

But of course, there are those who will continually point to this incident as evidence of us living in a police state.

Jesus.

[yellowdogintexas]

30. the scariest part was the look of glee on the cop's face. I kid you

not, I was watching the film and was just appalled at the blood lust on the face of one of those cops.

Kerry was probably in total shock that it had escalated to that, I know I would have been.

on edit: besides there were about 8 of them and 1 of him and no one jumping in to assist him, cops were unopposed. They should have been able to drag his ass out of there without assistance from devices.

[SHRED]

31. Kids should really read:

"Do it" by Jerry Rubin.

I know he is a "sell out" now but that book woke me up.

[raccoon]

36. "Why did the majority of UF students ...

...watch, clap, and/or smile? "

I'm beginning to think the majority of people are, in many ways, assholes. As long as it's not their ass in the fire, or about to go into it, they think it's funny.

"If their asses were on the line, like in the 1960's when the draft was in full swing, do you think they would be giggling?"

Hell, no.

"Not that the draft is an answer but these soft college kids should take a lesson from the Boomers they frequently bad mouth so much."

Right on!

"If this happened on a campus in 1968 you can bet that those campus cops would not have been cheered on and that the kids would have jumped in."

Right on!

[Lone_Wolf]

39. It is bad...

I think some on here support it for no other reason than he was seen as disrupting a Kerry event. The same people would be criticizing the police's actions if the same student were asking simularly harsh questions at a Bush event. These people only like free speech when they agree with what is being said.

We are really headed into dangerous ground when we can't even ask questions to our leaders - especially the good ones - in a public setting.

[WildEyedLiberal]

49. Oh for GOD's sake he wasn't "asking a question"

He was violent, erratic, disruptive, cut in line, threw punches, and kept screaming EVEN AS KERRY WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS HIS QUESTION.

NO, I would NOT have "sympathy" if the exact same thing had happened to someone at a Bush speech. This kid wasn't some peaceful protestor asking a tough question, he was violent and out of control and deserved to be escorted out.

Maybe the next time the Democratic politician in question actually needs to be shot at for you people to take violent erratic political extremists seriously.

[Rhiannon12866]

41. That's a damn good question.

When I first saw the video, I assumed that the clapping and cheering was for the student, because he fought back. But now having seen it from different perspectives (and reading DU, LOL, and listening to Randi yesterday), I get it.:-(

I don't get the clapping, since these are college students, obviously Kerry supporters, so it makes no sense that they'd be on the side of the cops. When I was in school, despite being fairly non-political at that age, I sure wouldn't have cheered for cops who were carting off one of my fellow students, no matter how irritating I thought he was. I would think that most kids are hard-wired that way, to oppose authority. I sure was...:shrug:

But I also remember how I felt at that age, 18 or 19, and I probably would have been scared, seeing cops march in with weapons, and carrying off one of my fellow students. At that age, I probably would have hoped that somebody with authority would step in, since I would have seen this as scary and wrong. I probably would have looked to Kerry, the authority figure in the room...:scared:

I wouldn't have led the charge, but if my fellow students stepped in, I probably would have joined them. I sure wouldn't have cheered on the cops. For all we know, this student may have a reputation as a PIA on campus, but I am still baffled that the others cheered on the cops. The next time, it could be any one of them...:-(

[Enrique]

43. because of his Skull and Bones reference

and because of his comical shrieking.

p.s. it could also be because they knew him and were familiar with his act.

[IronLionZion]

44. The cops wouldn't have used tasers.

[Lochloosa]

46. I think this line in this news article answers the main question.

"The student, Andrew Meyer, who was well-known on campus for his practical jokes"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2489183.ece

It seems obvious to me that Mr. Meyer went to this forum with the intent to disrupt it. Maybe he got more attention than he expected. He was being an ass.



Should he have been Tasered. No. Charged with resisting arrest and jailed. IMO, yes.