Is Andrew Meyer a true political agitator in the tradition of

[Heidi]

Malcolm X, Abbie Hoffman, Paul Krassner, Jerry Rubin, Angela Davis? (Feel free to add your own by reply, as I've surely left many out)?

(Edited to remove an errant "t.")

[blm]

1. Including John Lewis and John Kerry, honest dissenters EXPECT and accept arrest.

.

[Heidi]

2. And they're generally advancing something besides their own name recognition.

Thank you for those two worthy additions, blm. :thumbsup:

[Exiled in America]

62. He's not a hero. He's a idiot with RIGHTS.

The fact that he's a douchebag doesn't mean its ok to violate his civil rights. We need to stop conflating defense of the man with defense of the constitution.

[blm]

65. And he was exercising that right when he exaggerated his erratic behavior

while Kerry was answering his question, and did so because he wanted the police to move in for the FILM FOOTAGE he planned for.

The female cop shouldn't have tasered him, but they did have the right to subdue him for his deliberately erratic behavior towards the other students and to them - none of thenm were in on his gag, they couldn't know he was exaggerating for the set up.

[baby_mouse]

3. Heavens, no! He's a silly boy, that's all.

[youthere]

4. No, he's just a self-absorbed obnoxious little pissant. I imagine he

probably had a similar outburst about New Coke. He reminds of that kid, Stuart, on mad TV... "Look What I can DO!"




Edit to add: But even being a self-absorbed obnoxious little pissant doesn't justify a tasering.

[Heidi]

23. Do you think Andrew Meyer is in his "dark place" yet?

:rofl: :spray:

[youthere]

29. OMG...

:spray:

[kdmorris]

5. Pretty much what blm said

If he was TRULY up there with those great political agitators, he would have expected and accepted to get arrested, instead of freaking out and acting like a nutjob.

If I had set out to do what he did, I may not have given the microphone up, either. But as soon as they went to arrest me, I would have allowed them to do it.

[lateo]

10. Yes...because we expect all Americans...

to behave identically...

[KittyWampus]

11. well, you can lay down on the floor passively. there are alternatives.

[lateo]

17. Well, of course there are alternatives...

but he did what he did. Judging someone because he didn't act exactly like someone else did is silly. We are all individuals with our own strengths and weaknesses. The sort of lockstep mentality is expected of Republicans but not from liberal minded thinkers.

[kdmorris]

22. LOL whatever

If I do something dumb, I should expect that bad things can happen. Accusing everyone who don't agree with you of being a Republican and "silly" isn't exactly "liberal minded thinking", either.

If I am speeding and a cop pulls me over, I think that calling him a pig or jumping out of the car to confront him would be a little stupid, and result in bad consequences.

It's one of the things we try to teach children, you know. Doing stupid things can have consequences. That doesn't mean I think the cops were right in what they did or that he deserved it. I actually CAN be liberal in my thinking and believe that he didn't deserve to get tasered, but he ain't a fucking hero, either.

edited: grammar. I learned subject verb tense agreement in elementary school but apparently don't put it into practice much.

[lateo]

31. LOL indeed.

You said in your original statement that because this person didn't behave like previous agitators that he was just out to stir up trouble. I said you can't go around expecting everyone agitator on this planet to behave as all the others do. Then you come up with some erroneous bs that has nothing to do with the original discussion. If you really, really believe that all people should behave the same way well...LOL.

[kdmorris]

33. I don't expect everyone to "act like me"

He went there to ask those questions. That's fine, but he pushed his way to the front of the line to ask the questions, as if he was the only one who's questions counted. And proceeded to bombard Kerry with statements NOT questions.

I've already stated the cops were in the wrong. BUT so was Andrew Meyer, in my opinion. And it's disgusting to have this kid held up as some kind of fucking hero and compared to Martin Luther King, Jr and Rosa Parks and other people who were REALLY brave in the face of certain punishment by the authorities. You might want to remember that the people who were listed in the OP ALLOWED themselves to be arrested, so that they had a case to bring before the courts. They walked into jail with the police and fought for justice in a court of law. AND that's why we have suffrage and (the appearance of) equality between the races. Andrew Meyer fought and kicked and pushed and screamed. And HE KNEW they were going to taser him for his actions.

My point is HE IS NOT MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. Not even close. You don't have to pick a side, you know. It's not always black and white. In this case, both sides are wrong.

You going to Jena, LA tomorrow, then? You seem very concerned about outrages and police brutality, so that seems like it's something right up your alley.

[lateo]

36. Again you are changing the subject.

You didn't say they should act like you...you said that all agitators should act the same. Go back and read your first statement. I'm not claiming he is a hero so stop with that bullshit. All I am saying is he is DIFFERENT than other agitators but that doesn't' make him less of an agitator or less of an American.

[Heidi]

39. Have you looked _at all_ into Andrew Meyer's history, his website,

his email address, etc?

[lateo]

42. Yes, some of it anyway.

Are you holding that against him? He is a jerk big fucking deal. Last time I checked there was no law against being an asshole. Maybe we need more people like him to stir up the people and ask our Congress critters why they aren't doing more to help us. My whole take on this is it is really sad that Myers became a sideshow. Because the question he asked Kerry about the why he caved so quickly in 2004 needs to be answered. But you see, everyone is focusing on the sideshow now and that is a pity.

[kdmorris]

45. If you believe all that, why the hell are you bashing on me?

The OP asked if he was the same level as Malcolm X, Abbie Hoffman, Paul Krassner, Jerry Rubin, and Angela Davis. I said "No" and cited what blm had said in the first post. As far as I know, these people were NOT jerks. They fought to eradicate injustice and allowed themselves to be arrested TO bring it out in the public eye and have it tried there.

It IS sad that it's become a sideshow. I also find it sad that's he's been elevated to a hero.

[lateo]

48. I don't know if he is a jerk or not.

All I know is what I have read. I don't actually know Myers so I will reserve my judgment on him. I made those comments because that is how most people feel about him and it is really immaterial to what happened. Let me ask you this...do you think for one second that Malcom X, Abbie Hoffman, Paul Krassner, Jerry Rubin and the others were universally loved in their time? That everyone just thought rainbows and sunshine about them? You look at the people they agitated against and do you know what you will see? A group of people calling Malcom X, Abbie Hoffman, Paul Krassner, Jerry Rubin and the others assholes, jerks, deserving of beat downs etc. Yeah, Malcom X was sweet as pie to all Americans...lol.

[kdmorris]

44. Yeah, and *I* said that he was less of an American

You are saying and doing exactly what you are accusing me of.

If you want to elevate that punk to the level of Martin Luther King, Jr, Malcolm X, Abbie Hoffman, Paul Krassner, Jerry Rubin, Angela Davis, go right ahead with YOUR bullshit. I understand what you are saying. All agitators don't act the same. But I still do NOT agree that he is in the same class as these people.

But it's your prerogative to believe it if you wish.

[lateo]

46. I'm certainly not ready to elevate him to that level.

However, I am happy that someone FINALLY got the fucking nerve to ask Kerry why he fucked us over in 2004. To me that is what this discussion should be about and not the sideshow that Myers created.

[kdmorris]

47. As I said before...

Then I don't know why you and I are at odds with each other.

[lateo]

49. Because...

I am looking at it from all angles and you only see one.

[kdmorris]

51. Um, yeah...

that's the reason.

Sorry I tried to "connect" with you. Maybe you don't realize it, but you are only seeing one side, too. THAT'S how these things get started. ALL you care about is that he asked the question of Kerry (which is ONLY one item). You are NOT "looking at it from all angles".

Have a great day. I'm done with this.

[cali]

56. nothing like pulling off the mask n/t

[Heidi]

38. Thank you. Let's just see what Andrew Meyer does with the platform he created for himself.

I would be remiss if I didn't say that it will be extremely interesting how he does or doesn't use this opportunity for which he worked so hard.

:poopcorn:

[zeemike]

6. To those of us that lived through the 60s

No explanation is necessary
But then freaking people out was a strategy that worked to bring an awareness to the problems.
Today we should stay in our free speech zones and STFU. Least we be accused by our own of self promotion.

[bryant69]

7. Now you're getting it.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Bluebear]

9. 'Least we be accused by our own of self promotion.'

That is truly profound given this situation and the backlash, and very sad. Peace to you.

[Heidi]

25. I have never suggested that he should have stayed in a "free speech zone," and in fact,

I have condemned the Tasering and arrest. At the same time, it's clear from his own website, his prior history and his email address that Andrew Meyer is in the business of self-promotion. Why shouldn't these factors be taken into consideration?

My own view is that he comes nowhwere close to the tradition of political agistation that I was raised by liberal parents to respect. In fact, he comes closer to the Lounge's Easter "Free the Peeps" tradition.

At the same time, it's all of us who will decide whether anything good comes of this incident: a genuine dialogue about excessive use of force, journalism ethics (if Meyer, a journalism major, was acting in the capacity of journalist when he was arrested/Tasered), where "free speech" should have limits, etc.

The above issues important discussions, in my opinion. And with the public appearances that are sure to be offered Andrew Meyer, it will be interesting to note whether he raises any discussion of anything beyond himself. Meanwhile:

[Bluebear]

8. One incident doth not an agitator make.

If after this he went from place to place for a few years challenging politicians, we could consider it :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. He's more like that fan man that landed in the boxing ring.

Or your common internet troll.

[H2O Man]

20. During the 2nd

Riddick Bowe vs Evander Holyfield match. He died a lonely death.

[Roxy66]

13. After learning more about this person...

I think he is just an obnoxious attention seeker.

[Exiled in America]

63. THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE!

My god people... someone's RIGHTS are not based on your personal assessment of what kind of person they are.

[Major Hogwash]

14. Yes, because he asked Kerry about the election of 2004

Yet, what have the Democrats done to ensure that won't happen again in 2008?

And if you noticed, Andrew also asked Kerry what was he doing now to stop Bush from bombing Iran, just before his microphone was turned off.

[H2O Man]

15. No.

He is an acorn, not an oak tree.

[Kelly Rupert]

16. Certainly not. The mere fact that one

is an attention-whoring asshole at a political forum does not make one a political agitator.

[King Coal]

18. Hell yes, he was singing "I have a dream" while they shocked him.

[jdadd]

19. No....

Just a self promoting little asshole...

[NoPasaran]

21. No, I think he's a true disruptive clown

Being a jerk is his hobby. With enough support from DU, it may become his profession.

[Apollo11]

24. Was there any need for the police to intervene?

My take is that no there was not.

John Kerry agrees with me (after the fact).
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/students-rally-.html

Why are so many here still defending the cops' unnecessary use of physical force?

None of us are comparing this kid to any historical figures.

I am trying to highlight the importance of free speech in a democracy.

But if some people would prefer to live in a police state, well ... :eyes:

[Heidi]

26. Maybe he should have been allowed to wear himself out by talking.

He was well on his way to that point when the police intervened. I'm serious about that.

On the other hand, if you'll search GD, you'll see that Andrew Meyer has been compared to Rosa Parks, so you're mistaken that he hasn't been compared to any historical figures.

[SayWhatYo]

41. More like Dave Barry...

His own website even says so. :P

[kdmorris]

27. Actually, people are

In fact, one person compared him to the person in the picture from 1989 of Tienanmen Square. You know.. the guy standing in front of the tank, staring into the barrel of a gun?

I'm not defending the cops. I think what they did was wrong and over the top and yet another example of the loss of our rights in this ever-increasing police state. But I don't want THIS kid to be our rallying hero. HE'S not. It's sickening how people are acting like this kid is the second coming of Christ himself, when there are WAY more persecuted, way more traumatized people brutalized by the police who NEVER even make the front page. And I damned sure hate the fact that people are using this incident to bash Kerry. So, I'm emotional and fed up about the whole thing.

Where's the outrage for Mychal Bell? His sentence was vacated and he still sits in jail. Where's the outrage for Leonard Peltier? Turns out he was likely innocent, but he still sits in jail. Where's the outrage for all the people shot with rubber bullets and arrested during the PEACEFUL anti-war march this weekend? What about all the unnamed African Americans that were shot because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

WHY DO WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS KID WHEN HE WENT THERE TO START TROUBLE? He's NO HERO.

[Apollo11]

28. But it IS legitimate to compare this incident

with any historical incident where an individual's freedom of expression has been curtailed or a lone voice has been silenced by the physical intervention of state power.

But that's NOT the same as saying this kid is "just like" Rosa Parks.

There was no need for the cops to intervene and arrest this kid.

Senator John Kerry agrees with me on this point (after the fact).
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/students-rally-.html

[kdmorris]

30. I already pointed out that I agreed with the statement that

the cops went too far. They didn't need to do what they did. In fact, I think it was over the top.

What I disagree with you on is that this is historically significant like what happened with Rosa Parks. Rosa Parks KNEW she was going to get arrested and was brave enough to do what she did, anyway. When they came to arrest her, she went with them, let them arrest her. She did NOT scream and run around like an idiot, push at the cops or refuse to let them put handcuffs on her. And SHE had a LOT more reason to resist, since there was legitimate fear that they may mistreat her in jail. The lesson of Martin Luther King was NON-VIOLENT protest, not jumping up and down, pushing at the cops.

He's not a hero. Sorry, that's where we disagree. And I'm glad that Senator Kerry agrees that the cops went to far, but I was never one of the people bashing him because this happened when he was there, anyway.

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. Great post

:thumbsup:

[Heidi]

34. !

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=6928061#6928486

[WildEyedLiberal]

43. !!

:blush:

:hug:

Thanks for directing me to the Lounge, btw... it's like a breathe of fresh, SANE air compared to GD!

[JVS]

53. No, but it's fun to blame the victim

[Heidi]

54. Victim????? "Email me at [e-mail]!" (nt)

They shouldn't have Tasered him, and I question the arrest, but this guy is no martyr.

[SayWhatYo]

35. Nahh, not after reading his website.

He was in it for his own jollies... perhaps he wanted to make a point or something, but because of his lack of creativity I think it failed.

[Heidi]

40. His email address is [e-mail]

It's pretty clear what his interest is, but I'm willing to give this 72 hours and see whether he uses his newly-acquired national platform to bring any progressive causes to the forefront. Could be interesting and well worth the wait, no?

:popcorn:

[sleipnir]

37. He's an interloper of the highest order.

And a good one at that.


Democracy rejoices!

[peaches2003]

50. Good Lord, NO

He's a jerk of a kid who thinks he's smart and he's really only a smartass.

I was very disappointed in Randi yesterday. She kept referring to him as 'an honor student who just wanted to ask a question'. Not quite the full picture and of course she took no differing opinions. She put down every caller who saw him as possibly, just possibly, somewhat of a little jerk who wanted to make a name for himself. Evidently she didn't read that he has done this at other times and is not the little nerdy student she tried to portray him as. Nor that he had ranted for over 4 minutes at the mike with what she called one question and that the crowd applauded when the cops tried to take him off. You can here that on the tape. As always it is Randi's way or the highway.

[Heidi]

52. When we liberals become the unerring, unquestionable bullies on the block,

it's a sad, sad day for free thought, not to mention free expression.

As I've said many times in GD over the past two days, I don't think Meyer should have been Tasered, and I question whether an arrest was necessary (he might have just wound down like a tired and unruly child after a few more uncomfortable minutes). But he's sure as heck no hero on the order of those I've spent my life respecting and emulating; in fact, I think this antics dishonor the life work of true political agitators.

[zeemike]

55. In the 60s the word Agitator was a pejorative term

Coined by the southern racist to refer to the civil rights workers from the north that came to register black voters in the south. They would say those white northern agitators come down here and tell us how to live.

[hyphenate]

57. These other so-called agitators

Had a very strong sense of conviction with their stands, and tried to carry through on the basis of their beliefs. Since many of them protested many years ago, some of their opinions have become fact, and it makes their acts somewhat more noble.

This guy in Florida, IMHO, is just trying to stir the shit up.

Many of the above named (Krassner, for example) used humor to make their point--I have the feeling that Andrew Meyer might not even have a sense of humor at all, unless it's at the expense of someone else.

[Carrieyazel]

58. Absolutely not. This guy is mostly about himself, and that outburst had to be staged

[AnotherGreenWorld]

59. Exactly, pure vanity...just like the "protest" about this incident.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rmJ9_7Cfzxo&mode=related&search=

[Exiled in America]

64. I'm curious about what makes this different than what Michael Moore does?

[Apollo11]

60. Friends of Meyer say he's extremely political (The Gainesville Sun)

The Gainesville Sun, September 19, 2007

Taser Aftershock

By JACK STRIPLING

Following the Tasering of a University of Florida student at a political event Monday, the university has been thrust into a growing national debate about the limits of free speech, the appropriate role of law enforcement and the politically charged environment of modern times.

The incident that has sparked such controversy took place Monday afternoon, when 21-year-old Andrew Meyer was arrested and shot with a Taser gun during a town hall forum attended by U.S. Sen. John Kerry.

Meyer had approached an open microphone to question Kerry, but his microphone was cut off when he used some salty language that drew organizers' objections. Shortly thereafter, UF Police Department officers tried to physically remove him from the University Auditorium, but resorted to the use of a Taser gun when he did not "comply," according to officers.

(...)

Speaking on behalf of protesting students, Benjamin Dictor told reporters that the UF incident was one of a series of recent incidents that indicate an erosion of civil liberties in the United States. Dictor described the silencing and subsequent Tasering of Meyer as an assault on free speech, adding that "our Constitution has been trampled."

"What happened in that auditorium was not only a physical assault but an assault on reason itself," said Dictor, a 20-year-old political science major.

(...)

Friends of Meyer say he's extremely political, noting that he has been passionate about the 2004 election, which he thought Kerry rightfully won.

"He's not crazy or anything," said Robert Campbell, a UF student and a friend of Meyer's. "The only thing he is is a little bit extreme with his views."

While some are critical of Meyer's ranting at the Kerry forum, others are embracing him as symbol of free speech. Huddled among a crowd of protesters, one wielding a sign that asked "who will guard the guards," Austin Flickstein rallied against what he described as the silencing of a young man who had a right to be heard.

"Yes, his questioning went a little bit beyond what some of the administration's ears are used to, but only because he was expressing some thoughts that haven't been heard for a very, very long time," said Flickstein, a 21-year-old UF student. "And then it was force that they used to suppress the free speech. The issue here is our suppressing of free speech. Yes, Tasering is unnecessary. But what is most creepy and scary about this is why did six cops need to tackle a man down and Taser him when he was already on the ground because he was asking questions?"

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20070919/NEWS/709190330/0/sports

[Exiled in America]

61. No. He is an idiot who still has RIGHTS.

Student Douchebaggery (a la Jon Stewart) is not a crime. And even if it was a crime, it does not justify excessive force.