Saudis Signal They're Ready To Dump Their Dollars

[Wiley50]

From LBN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2997877

Source: Telegraph

Saudi Arabia has refused to cut interest rates in lockstep with the US Federal Reserve for the first time, signalling that the oil-rich Gulf kingdom is preparing to break the dollar currency peg in a move that risks setting off a stampede out of the dollar across the Middle East.

"This is a very dangerous situation for the dollar," said Hans Redeker, currency chief at BNP Paribas.

"Saudi Arabia has $800bn (£400bn) in their future generation fund, and the entire region has $3,500bn under management. They face an inflationary threat and do not want to import an interest rate policy set for the recessionary conditions in the United States," he said.

The Saudi central bank said today that it would take "appropriate measures" to halt huge capital inflows into the country, but analysts say this policy is unsustainable and will inevitably lead to the collapse of the dollar peg.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/...

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. And so it begins.... er, continues. And this is how they will reign in

the madness.

[KoKo]

73. Why would the Bushies want this? It wouldn't be happening if they didn't want it to.

Their best Buddies are the Saudi's. What's this about Dubai buying the NASDAQ, too. :shrug: very strange.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

77. My first thought was about Dubai buying the NASDAQ. wtf

:wtf:

Also, Halliburton locating to Dubai in the midst of this stuff is very strange, indeed.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

79. kpete's thread may tie into this one,...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1854542&mesg_id=1854542

Again, I wonder :wtf:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

88. .

[Pale Blue Dot]

2. It's the middle of the beginning of the end.

nt

[stillcool]

5. bummer...

I was hoping we were at least in the beginning of the middle. I feel like a kid in the back seat of the car..."Are we there yet?"

[CoffeeCat]

52. Yeah, really...

"How many more water towers daddy? How many more water towers
until the dollar erodes to dust?".

[leveymg]

64. That car's going over the cliff.

Best not to rush the experience.

[Junkdrawer]

14. Hey, think we can get our beads back for Manhattan???

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. And the American Empire teeters on the edge

[indepat]

47. Amurika is so much stronger with junior practicing the voodoo economics GHWB warned

us the Gipper would practice. In truth, over 85% of the nation's existing public debt lies at the feet of the Gipper, GHWB, and junior, their fiscal and tax policies being post-graduate-level voodoo economics.

[robinlynne]

61. Interestingly enough, Bush, as an answer to Greenspan, said that the current recession is

Clinton's fault!

[Vidar]

4. And so it goes.

[BeHereNow]

6. Meanwhile, the wash of REALLY important threads floods GD.

Go figure.
BHN

[Pale Blue Dot]

13. C'mon, this is half-way across the world!

It can't possibly be more important than tasering!

:sarcasm:

In truth though, I think DU is still more aware of what's about to happen to us than 99.9% of the rest of the country.

[BeHereNow]

17. Well, if we are going to discuss percentages...

From what I've been reading on DU lately, I'd say a VERY small percentage
of DU is aware of what is going to happen next.
BHN

[Pale Blue Dot]

18. Unfortunately, you're probably right.

:-(

[BeHereNow]

19. Proof is in the pudding...

Just sit back and watch the board.
Fact is, I doubt many people even know what it means
as far as the future is concerned.
BHN

[Hydra]

33. They're still living in the fog

Even here on DU some days, the level of "Lalalala! I can't hear you!" is scary

[The Vinyl Ripper]

46. I for one try to follow most of the "important" threads..

But since the opinions tend to be almost unanimous there isn't really all that much to talk about..

[CoffeeCat]

53. So...what is going to happen next?

I'm paying attention, but I'm interested in your thoughts.

In your estimation will the dollar tank?

Do your investment decisions reflect beliefs about the dollar sinking?

I hope it's ok to ask those questions. I'm worried too and wondering
if I should make a move this week.

[chervilant]

67. In the early 80s

two of the top ten US banks were so close to insolvency that Paul Volker had to create an emergency paper asset (actually a liability masquerading as an asset) so that these banks could fallaciously maintain their required debt-to-income ratios until they 'stabilized.' That was just the tip of the iceberg.

Others posting herein have correctly identified the Reagan era as THE point in history at which this train wreck began. Our wrecked economy is grinding to a 'halt' soon--a catastrophe unprecedented and virtually unimaginable.

When our nation's GAO chief asserts we are facing a horrific economic crisis, when Paul Volker observes the US has a greater than 75% chance of experiencing a severe economic crisis within the next five years, when Ford Motor Company's PR hacks announce massive layoffs, then grimly admit it may be 2009 before they register in the black again, one has to accept that our economy is in dire straits.

Bear in mind that during this nation's FIRST long depression (the Panic of 1873, lasting 23 years), our nation realized significant increases in productivity FOUR times, and inventive geniuses gave us the electric light, telephones, and cars (a comprehensive list of this era's amazing inventions would require several more pages than I have herein...). In short, economic behavior continued unabated, even while many in our nation suffered serious deprivation.

We are facing something much more dire, and we must acknowledge that our nation has NEVER been in the same economic situation we now face. We've never had an 8.7 trillion dollar national debt while at the same time sustaining an endless massive trade deficit (ponder this the next time you get all excited about the 'great deal'--made in China--you got at the dollar store). We've never had an administration that is SO invested in rewarding Bush's 'base' that their media mouthpieces vomit forth continuous lies about our nation's amazing economic 'recovery.' (Rove's fingerprints are all over these well-placed pronouncements: benign, subtle, barely registering among those of us who find the Big, Bad Economy frighteningly incomprehensible.)

No one can predict what is going to happen. However, any corporate hack can tell you what happens when a company continues to expend ever larger percentages of its total output on past and current indebtedness. It's called bankruptcy. Folks, the company WE call the United States is about to go belly up. God help us all when it blows.

[Liberal In Texas]

20. Yep.

I'm waiting for the ultimate Tasered baby on Southwest held hostage by OJ in a too-short skirt stealing the MoveOn ad from Fred Thompson's too-young wife.

That's just for this week.

Meanwhile, the structure of our economy is rotting and falling apart.

If the oil producing countries turn to the euro, the crap from China at wally world is going to seem way too expensive for almost anybody.

[fishnfla]

22. I think the Chinese are gonna call their loans in

in Euros, the double whammy

I'm not a financial guy, but the first step is petro money converting from dollars to euros

[Deja Q]

24. Who'll buy China's garbage that isn't even safe enough to be put in a toxic landfill?

China is in a situation worse than ours right now.

Especially if manufacturing comes back here, which it very well might. Even an article in today's WSJ was hyping up the concept. And it makes sense.

[fishnfla]

29. China is banking our loans, in dollars

the only thing more toxic and worthless than their goods could be the US buck

[Deja Q]

32. Ironic, since we offshored the jobs that has made their cozy little empire.

No good deed goes unpunished, perhaps?

[fishnfla]

38. their new empire needs more oil, india's too

if the petro money converts from dollars to euros....they ain't gonna pay with the worthless currency they are banking with us now.the dollar is at a 15 year low

sure, its doom and gloom. it should be

[CGowen]

25. Some say China won't do it, if we let them invade Taiwan

...
So what is the end game? Well, there is now conjecture that China may willingly take the huge financial hit from the falling dollar… provided we don’t interfere with their claims to Taiwan.

Their argument would be they acquired Hong Kong peacefully and that the envelopment of Taiwan would just be the finale of a 70 year civil war.

Their gamble would be that Americans would not fall on their swords for Taiwan. Of course, if we agree to such a deal we have (for all intents and purposes) ceded regional hegemony to China. They would be considered the Asian power and we would begin our retreat as a global power.
...
http://kob.com/article/stories/S198834.shtml?cat=500

[Deja Q]

30. Exactly. Conjecture. Along with everything else.

I'm not going to freak out just yet, and if everything truly is going to pot, it's still going to take some time. Everything happening has any number of outcomes, either good or bad.

Even then, with all the rattle about "POLICE STATE! IN COLOR!" by people around here, one also has to accept it's been 7 years and nobody's put up the prison bars just yet. 7 years of wasting time thinking "We're all gonna be locked up just for having a disagreeing viewpoint!!!" Guess what, it's gotten very tiresome, so I'm getting back to living, for Christ's sake. x(

Other people can cry doom and gloom all they want. Even I've done it. But thinking outside the box has helped eliminate preconceptions, myths, conjecturing, and other non-truths.

I'm getting on with life. If shit hits the fan, I'll just get a towel and some Formula 409(tm)...

[CGowen]

39. How did the massage go? n/t

[Wiley50]

49. If Everthing Is Going to Pot, Why Won't They Legalize It? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

69. ...

:thumbsup:

[Hydra]

37. Too many options

The most likely is:

GWB: "I'll let you have Taiwan and some of the Asian states if you let me have the Mid-East and South America!"

China's Rep: "Fine. But what about Putin- He'll want something."

GWB: "He can have all those little countries that surround him, and half of the Arctic. Hell, he can have Europe too if those EU whiners don't get in step with me!"

[fishnfla]

41. some say our options are limited b/c we are pinned down in Iraq

other countries want us tied up there, espec. russia

[Hydra]

43. I doubt our options are limited

Many people point to the Military in collapse, but I see that as Bush's excuse to put Blackwater on full-time. Mercs don't refuse illegal orders or desert unless the cash stops flowing.

[fishnfla]

44. Treasury Sect'y Paulson reports US to hit debt limit Oct 1st

the cash stops flowing

[Hydra]

48. That would give me hope

but expect them to raise the debt limit...I heard talk about that today on NPR

[fishnfla]

50. I heard that story too

but more to the op, and my points here...nodody wants a US dollar loan, if petro goes euro

we'll see

[kineneb]

56. mercs will change sides if offered more money

that is why relying on mercenaries has always been a bad idea.

[Hydra]

71. Do we have more money than the Rothchilds or the Rockefellers?

They can always print more. I don't think we have enough to hire them ourselves :evilgrin:

[leveymg]

65. No need to call in loans. All China has to do is sell T-bills.

That will put enormous upward pressure on long-term interest rates, which are already inverted, a bad indicator of a looming recession.

[fishnfla]

86. what that guy said

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

87. .

[BeHereNow]

7. Recommended, what the hell-

Maybe a few of us on DU still "get it" and
will see the thread for a moment before it
is drowned in Fox News threads.
BHN

[kenfrequed]

8. I am so glad ..

That the Bush family made allies of these jackals. Well here comes the depression ready or not.

[formercia]

21. Bush gang are their allies

as long as the Doritos hold out.

No more dip? See ya later, Infidel. :rofl:

[Junkdrawer]

9. Will the last one to leave please turn out the lights...

:wow:

[BeHereNow]

10. speaking of threads worth reading...have you read THIS yet? Arendt is BACK!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1844446&mesg_id=1844446
Best damn thread I've seen in GD in a LONG time, with the exception of
a small number by our old timers.
Enjoy!
BHN

[KoKo]

74. Thanks for Head Up on Arendt! She's the Best....!!

:thumbsup:

[fishnfla]

11. This is huge

the bell is tolling

[fairfaxvadem]

12. Well, there goes my dinner...

Seriously, I'm reading this hoping it's Weird News Daily, but hey, it's the Telegraph. And I don't think that's even a Murdoch rag.

No one is minding the store.

[Olney Blue]

15. Is Cheney going to make an emergency visit?

[Junkdrawer]

16. Nah, he's too busy setting up Halliburton HQs in Dubai...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=2941931

[Jacobin]

84. No. He's moved his personal assets into foreign currency

Really. He did.

That means he will make out like a bandit while fucking the country he supposedly represents.

[mark414]

23. well, time to leave the country i guess

[Wiley50]

28. Can You afford To Subsidize My Diaspora Also? n/t

[mark414]

36. hell i can't even afford it for myself

i was thinking stowaway on a freight ship to tahiti or something...

[Auggie]

26. Could be a ruse...

[wicket]

27. Oh man

:popcorn:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

31. Well, this is one fine mess.

I mean, I wanted to see the war defunded, but this wasn't exactly the way I had in mind.

[MzNov]

34. I wish they would dump them in my back yard

[SlowDownFast]

35. Rec'd.

We're so fucked.

[orpupilofnature57]

40. Bandar Bush

http://www.whitehouse.org/ask/bandar.asp

[Junkdrawer]

42. So long, and thanks for all the fish....

:hi:

[BeHereNow]

45. Fish in a barrel?

BHN

[AntiFascist]

51. K&R, this cannot be good....

when are they going to introduce the American Peso?

[BlooInBloo]

54. End Days! ENNNDDD DAAAAYYYYSSS!!!!!

Man, I wish somebody would give me a nickel everytime a DUers pronounces imminent Armageddon. I could quit my job.

[The Backlash Cometh]

55. Yay! More for me!

I'm the mouse in the corner, cooly flipping off the cat that's about to pounce.

[SammyWinstonJack]

70. ..

:spray:

[kineneb]

57. coming feature: not so much a crash but a death spiral

The Fed just lowered interest rates... the dollar is worth .71 Euros and slipping... the debt ceiling needs to be raised (how many Billions are we in the hole?)... sub-prime loan resets will not be over until next summer... how many banks/brokerage houses/hedge funds will bite the dust in the mean time... and of course, the Saudis are going to get rid of some of their dollar holdings... oh, one more: how long can the Fed continue to bail out the market?

It doesn't look too good.

Yes, I pay attention to the world economy; "follow the money" if you want to know what is really going on.

[american_typeculture]

58. Don't worry, the gloomy economic forecast means a lock for a Dem in '08

Mark my words. These things are cyclical, the Republicans tear everything down and the Democrats build it back up. The horrible economy means a Dem is a shoe-in and who ever that Dem is means that they will bring with them an economic policy that will bring us out of this mess. The people who will fix this under a Dem administration are already in place, they are D.C. insiders, policy wonks, economic think tankers and deeply entrenched Dem federal employees. These people are already in D.C. and are just waiting for a green light. The next President will not be a Republican, no matter how many terror cards they play. They got the stank of GWB all over their party and the people are completely sick of it and him. Plus, no other country is going to try to fuck with us economically, they are only beating their chests because it is an opportune time to do so. No other nation in the world wants a United States that is economically cornered, because they know what that means, a cruise missile detonating in the pool area of their country's Presidential palace and a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier moored off their coast.

[KillCapitalism]

68. I admire your optimism, but we may be in the hole too far.

Let's put it this way, Reagan and Poppy Bush dug us into a financial hole as deep as a coal mine. Once Clinton was elected and after 8 years, we had climbed out so to say by having a budget surplus. However now, W has dug us into a hole that goes all the way to China literally. I don't think there's any getting out of this mess, even with brilliant and prudent economic planning.

[AntiFascist]

72. No one ever talks about this, but I had heard....

that when Hong Kong was repatriated back to China, during the Clinton administration, it caused many big investors to pull their investments from the Chinese economy and invest in the US. This helped fuel the tech bubble and helped the economy blast off, also giving us the surplus. Will the next administration have any similar rabbit to pull out of a hat?

[orpupilofnature57]

75. Only if it's lead by a man named Gore .

[AntiFascist]

76. Yes! Aggressively changing our infrastructure to support alternative energy...

could give a huge boost to the economy. Imagine all the 100 $billions wasted in Iraq being put to productive use.

[me b zola]

59. k&r

[w8liftinglady]

60. this,for some reason,scares the hell out of me

not sure why

[robinlynne]

62. I'm sure they waited till the entire Bush family dumped theirs....

[GETPLANING]

63. Yesterday, Hugo Chavez instructed Venezuelan banks

to shift from the US Dollar to the Euro for oil transactions. Venezuela doesn't hold enough Dollars to cause a big drop, but the trend is clearly being set. Move your cash to FXE or GLD.

[NuttyFluffers]

66. yay! inflation makes my student loans worth less!

oh, and then there's the whole reduced social security, rising cost of living, and potential depression and collapse of the economy... but look at the silver lining! it's shiny!
:7

[Disturbed]

78. No need to worry. Busholini claimed that he got a B in

Econ. 101 & he is in control. Oops, his transcripts say he actually got a C Minus.

We better exchange our Dollars for Euros today.

[NuttyFluffers]

82. my president is "veracity challenged"

does that mean he qualifies for a handicapped placard for parking?

:hide:

[Douglas Carpenter]

80. Bloomberg: Saudi Plans to Keep Riyal Pegged to the Dollar, King Abdulla's Adviser Says

"Sept. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Saudi Arabia is likely to keep the riyal's peg to the dollar and a cut in interest rates will ``not help the Saudi economy,'' an adviser to King Abdullah said.

``It's not necessary that there will be a de-pegging of the riyal from the U.S. dollar, not in the near future,'' Ihsan Bu- Hulaiga, who heads a government-appointed finance committee that advises King Abdullah, said in an interview. ``The issue is that we have an abundance of liquidity in the economy."

snip:"The Saudi inter-bank rate was already about half a point below U.S. rates so ``this actually brings Saudi in line with U.S. rates,'' Brad Bourland, chief economist at Jadwa Investment Co., a Saudi Arabian-based investment bank, said in a phone interview today. ``If there are further cuts though, it might be difficult for them,'' he said.

Any additional reductions in U.S. interest rates will increase pressure on Saudi Arabia to follow.

It ``would give the authorities in Saudi a choice of either getting rid of the peg or allowing interest rates to come lower and we believe they'll definitely choose the latter,'' Steve Brice an economist at Standard Chartered said.

Saudi Arabia has not always followed the Fed's rate cuts, Monica Malik, chief economist at EFG-Hermes Holding said in a telephone interview from Dubai. It did not raise interest rates in 2006 along with the Fed to help revive its sagging stock market, she said"

link: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602081&sid=aGO6cU_5z57M&refer=benchmark_currency_rates%20peg

--------------

This from salon.com regarding the author of the article from the Telegraph:

"Is Saudi Arabia afraid of the dollar?
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, the international business editor of the U.K.'s conservative-leaning Daily Telegraph, sure knows how to move markets. In early August, he sent a shiver through bond investors when he reported that China was planning to "drop the bomb on the American dollar" in retaliation against trade pressure from the United States.

This week, on Wednesday, he sent similar shock waves through international currency markets with his speculation that a Saudi decision not to lower interest rates in "lockstep" with the U.S. signaled that the kingdom was planning to remove the "peg" that keeps the value of the Saudi riyal in a fixed relationship to the U.S. dollar. This possibility unnerved traders enough to send the already weak dollar to a historic low against the euro

I have noted previously that Evans-Pritchard's theories about Chinese intentions had some serious holes. His previous life as one of the more wacky anti-Clinton conspiracy theorists also does little to build confidence. And just as recently as a few days ago, Evans-Pritchard was spectacularly wrong when he suggested, in an article titled "Bernanke Will Prove Sterner Than Wall Street Thinks," that the Fed chairman might not be as quick to bail out the markets as investors were hoping."

link:

http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2007/09/20/saudi_arabia_and_the_dollar/

.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

81. I have to kick this. ATTENTION!!!! *please, please* nt

[unkachuck]

83. oh no....

....the price of my imported headcheese is going up....

[Wiley50]

85. Hey! It's OK, Don't Fret! Domestic Tennessee Souse is Plentiful (too plentiful)

And nobody wants to buy the stuff

Like most folks here, I just wanna puke everytime I see the stuff in the coldcut case.
(You can just see all of the congealed neurons like flys in rubber aspic

The stuff is half the price of cheap baloney