6-Year-Old Autistic Student Criminally Charged After Alleged Assault

[proud2BlibKansan]

A six-year-old autistic boy has been charged criminally after an incident inside his school where he allegedly assaulted a teacher's aide.

<skip>

He is in kindergarten at Taylor Elementary, but 9News was told that due to his autism and other conditions, his mental capacity is the equivalent to a child half his age.

But despite that condition and his age, it still hasn't stopped a school employee there from holding him accountable: criminally.

<skip>

Despite being autistic, Nathan is integrated with all kindergartners at Taylor Elementary.

His parents believe Schiltz and other teachers there are ill-prepared to handle special needs students.

more . . . http://www.wcpo.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=1faaed2c-0902-4c23-8d9a-52c47e6bd24f

[Horse with no Name]

1. Yet we have a mentally incapacitated president

who is responsible for deaths each and every day that gets a pass.
This is over the top.
Too far as a matter of fact and hopefully the ACLU will get involved.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I'm not sure what the ACLU can do

What is the constitutional violation here?

[Mend]

16. M'Naghton Act around for over 150 years in England and here holds

that the mentally ill and/or impaired cannot be held responsible for their behavior if it is intrinsic to their illness.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Tell that to the people with retardation who are sitting on death row

I also don't understand how the ACLU can help. They defend people whose constitutional rights have been violated.

[MrCoffee]

181. M'Naughton does not apply in the US anymore.

[Mend]

182. Wikipedia says it is followed in US except Montana, Idaho, Utah, and Kansas...

I am not a lawyer, I am a psychiatrist but the courts always seem willing to hear about mental illness as a factor.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

15. One of my children is special needs

and mainstreaming is not all that it's cracked up to be.

He's actually very gentle and compassionate, but he gets picked on, and I have to stay on the school teachers and other personnel to protect him. It's gotten better or I wouldn't leave him there, but you do have to advocate for your own child. No one else will.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. It's a mess and we will just hear more stories like this

until they change something. Sounds like this kid didn't belong in a regular kindergarten. But they are mainstreaming nearly every special needs kids these days. I used to teach self-contained and they switched me to resource and put all my kids in regular classrooms. I pull them out for special ed but they are in regular ed much longer than they used to be.

But what is worse is this cross categorical model. I am an LD teacher with a masters degree in LD. Yet now I have kids with mental retardation, kids with mental illness and this week, they sent me a kid who is hearing impaired. My district has never offered me any training even though I have asked every year since they started this cross categorical model. So I will admit I really don't know how to teach all the kids I have been assigned. It is very frustrating; it's like asking a pediatrician to do heart surgery.

[demigoddess]

156. I have a handicapped daughter and that sounds like Texas about 30 years ago

when we had her in school there.
Also they might be charging this kid in order to get him out of the school system. That is what they would do.

[proud2BlibKansan]

160. No I don't think that's why they are charging him

The school district has to pay to educate the kid. It's less expensive for them in a regular classroom setting. Pushing him out of the system would cost the district a lot of money. Contract placements can cost nearly $100K a year per student.

[demigoddess]

184. sorry, but I disagree, you would not believe how many times I heard that

from special ed teachers. "You can always go elsewhere if you don't like what we are doing" Also I know that the parents were lied to to keep children from enrolling. Such as telling us 'that class is our deaf-blind class" instead of letting us see the class and knowing it was actually the severely retarded class. They know that enforcing those rules are hard and expensive to the parents also and in the meantime a year or so goes by.

[proud2BlibKansan]

194. But can you really go elsewhere?

My district is very reluctant to put kids with disabilities out of traditional schools. Like I said, it's very expensive and the district has to pay the contract (private) school.

Also, as a teacher, I can assure you I don't get to decide that kids need to go elsewhere. That is an IEP team decision.

[Raejeanowl]

179. I Have To Agree With You

About mainstreaming, both as a sibling/relative of several people with mental retardation who were specially educated, and a mother of children who had "mainstreamed" peers in their classrooms, most of whom were never accepted or treated as peers.

My youngest daughter was the friend and bus buddy of one particular girl with Downs Syndrome throughout school, but she wasn't always there to shield her from a dismissive and often openly hostile student body. Mainstreaming is a very expensive, well-intended idea that really doesn't deliver on its promise.

The "solution" for my younger brother's first grade misbehavior in the 1950s was to take him to the teacher's lounge and paddle him. He eventually did very well in a "school for exceptional children," as they were often called.

Whatever your special education schooling philosophy, this child clearly had the wrong placement, with untrained people. And while his tendency toward violence under frustration needs to be addressed and resolved, lodging criminal proceedings against him is an admission of the aide's total incompetence.

[Ilsa]

187. ITA. I think they sometimes try to mainstream so they don't have to

have a special class for the kids. My son couldn't take mainstreaming. It was a huge mistake. Went on way too long before they placed him in the right class (ABA).

[tsuki]

193. Office of Civil Rights - oversees 94-142 or whatever it is called now.

[ixion]

2. oh for pete's sake...WTF is wrong with people?

he's a kid, damnit! :crazy:

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. He's a kid with a disability

who probably doesn't belong in a regular kindergarten class.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

22. I totally agree!

I completely disagree with the concept of having a one-on-one aide follow "some" of these children around. (Although it works well for others.) Instead of a full time aide following one child around, it would be much better to have a three or four children in a small contained classroom with a teacher who knows what she's doing. She'd proably need an aide, as well, but not one aide per child in many cases.

My child doesn't need an aide to babysit him, but he could use an aide to protect him from the bullies. He's very gentle and gets his feelings hurt so easily.

[pnwmom]

75. But the question is

why are the authorities pursuing this case? How can they charge a 6 year old (with the capacity of a 3 year old) with criminal intent?

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. The prosecutor went to the same school as the prosecutor in LA

who charged the kids in the Jena nightmare. Or maybe the same school as the prosecutor in the Duke case.

[pnwmom]

74. They're incredibly ignorant. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

3. TAZE HIM!!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. I knew someone would post that!

[BlooInBloo]

9. You know you can count on me. :)

[Nutmegger]

4. And he'll probably be on the pedo-list for the rest of his life.

Because that's going to solve the problem, right?

I just don't know what to say anymore.

[NashVegas]

8. It's Been a Matter of Time

This is a collision between the opposing groups: one that wants special needs children integrated as much as possible, and one that sees other pupils - and some adults - being put at risk.

No one is going to walk away happy.

According to the affidavit which 9News obtained, Schiltz alleges that on September 5, Nathan grabbed her by the shirt, pulled her backwards and began punching and kicking her.

..

"She is no small person, she can defend herself," said Cathy Darnell.

And if the aide had defended herself, she would likely be the subject of assault charges and/or a lawsuit.

edited to add: wow. These parents are assholes. Something tells me there's more going on than what's reported.

"Most of the time it is whining and screaming. I am sure that is hard on teachers and stuff, but we find a way to deal with it," said Tony Darnell.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Yes that is the big picture here

I am a special ed teacher and this is a huge problem - what is the least restrictive environment for these kids? It's a tough call.

The other thing to remember is that this aide probably has little to no training on how to work with autistic kids. I am not trying to defend her - I think charging this kid with assault is idiotic - but she is probably really not qualified to meet his needs, as his mom says.

[NashVegas]

13. After Reading the Rest of the Article

I would be surprised if there haven't been prior "discussions" about little Natey's behavior, and a parental attitude of "deal with it."

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. I wondered that too but they have every right to expect the school to deal with their child

We don't know WHY this kid assaulted his aide. He is autistic; autistic kids are easily frustrated. The school needs to place him in a class where he is less likely to be frustrated. A regular kindergarten is probably not the best placement for this child.

[Mythsaje]

94. He's autistic...

There really IS no other option other than "deal with it."

The parents recognize this fact and, if anything, their primary mistake was apparently in the way they chose to communicate this fact.

You can't push autistic children. You just can't. If you're lucky, you can lead them, but only if you understand the self-imposed limitations of that particular child.

[AwakeAtLast]

18. Plus, a lot of aides have to do this while being paid about $6.50/hr.

It may not be true in some states, but in a lot of them, assistants don't need any kind of license. They do the best they can under amazingly bad conditions.

There are many more stories like this around the country.

[NashVegas]

29. Unbelievable, No?

I had a family member who was making barely above minimum wage as a TA, back in the 1980s/1990s. She had no formal training, didn't even have an associates' degree. BUT, she was great at dealing with special needs kids. All the patience in the world ...

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Yes thanks for pointing that out

If I was making what they make, I wouldn't take kindly to assault.

[lumberjack_jeff]

175. Aides are not treated with the respect they deserve.

In my experience, the best "teachers" my district has to offer are all paraeducators.

[KittyWampus]

56. Charging the autistic child w/ assault may be the only way to address problem/unhelpful parents

[proud2BlibKansan]

133. If they really are being unhelpful

I read frustration. But we don't have all the facts so we really don't know for sure.

[sendero]

169. Yeah..

... the parents should have taught that kid to behave better :sarcasm:

Clearly, you've not had many dealings with special-needs kids. I have a teenaged autism-specrum kid, and all I can do is knock on wood that the schools he's been in (in Dallas) have bent over backward to help him and forgive his occassional failures.

He's really a good kid, but he makes some stupid and impulsive decisions on occassion. No amount of discipline on our part is going to fix it, but we still try.

[pnwmom]

78. The larger picture is the justice system.

How this case can be proceeding is beyond me.

[LisaL]

It's difficult on other students to go to school with a child that got

special needs. I should know, there was one kid like that in my class.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Every Once In A While, I Wonder How So Many People Could Have Voted For Bush

Then I see stories like this, and all is clear.

[5X]

12. You got it, a nation of idiots. explains a lot doesn't it.

and makes me so proud to be an amurikan, NOT.

[DS1]

14. "Nathan grabbed her by the shirt, pulled her backwards and began punching and kicking her."

as an antithesis of the cherry-picking going on here

[5X]

17. Are you suggesting a 6 year old should be charged? n/t

[DS1]

64. see post #60

I said nothing of the sort

[BlooInBloo]

19. 6. Austic. Criminal. Duh.

[DS1]

62. see post #60

I said nothing of the sort

[ulysses]

21. is it cherry-picking to point out that he's, erm, autistic and six years old?

[DS1]

60. no. it's part of the story

a person was kicked and beaten. I simply posted the part of the story which included violence and was left out of the original post. I didn't say what should happen.

[ulysses]

69. fair enough. an adult was kicked and beaten

by a six-year-old who is on the autism spectrum. They spit, too.

on edit: I'll note that many kids spit, and kick, and hit, whether they have special needs or not. Kids who are on the spectrum often do so out of frustration, and yes, most of us deal with it as part of the job.

[DS1]

79. fair enough

I don't think the kid should be charged with anything, but I did disagree with the selective posting of this story. I'm as fair and balanced as Fox News wish they were.

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. When I posted this, I was trying to point out what I think the major points are

1. He is in a regular kindergarten.

2. His teachers are likely not trained to deal with him.

The story was really not very well written so it was hard to edit it for clarity.

[pnwmom]

87. You did fine in summarizing the situation.

Exactly how he assaulted the teacher is irrelevant. She's the one that supposed to be handling him, not the other way around. And if she can't, they should change his placement, not send him off to the criminal justice system.

[DS1]

90. and I posted what I considered an important part that you'd left out

[pnwmom]

86. The headline in the OP said "assault." That says it all.

The details don't matter. He could have come after the teacher with a knife, and it wouldn't change my opinion about his situation legally. He's an autistic kid with the mental age of a 3 year old. That means it's the job of the adults in his life to deal with him -- not to press criminal charges.

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. Please remember that many states have laws that require teachers to report assaults

My state does. Legally, we can't turn our backs and not report it. Yes, we try to be reasonable and I can assure you I never would have pressed charges if I was this teacher. But that would be breaking the law in my state.

[pnwmom]

101. But they don't have laws requiring PROSECUTORS to pursue the charges.

What I can't understand is why this is still going forward.

[DS1]

95. that's amusing

and what i'm getting at

The details don't matter. You said. I posted other details. Now they matter. Then you say the details do in fact matter.

And the nightmare rides on.

[pnwmom]

99. Huh? I have consistently said the details of the assault are unimportant.

Where do I say they matter? He's a 6 year old with the capacity of a 3 year old. That means he can't be held responsible for his actions. Period.

[ulysses]

91. I'm not sure what you found selective.

This isn't Lizzie Borden and her axe - this is a six-year-old with fists and feet. Believe me when I say that this happens every day in untold locations across the country.

[DS1]

100. I found the part where a teacher was punched and kicked 'selective'

Left out being selective. I have no dog, or child, in this fight, but I do think the OP was selective. I've brought to attention what I consider relevant details in the matter to light, but apparently until I brought them up nobody was talking about them. I didn't intend for them to be so controversial, but they are what they are, and they are apparently controversial.

All I said that was a teacher was kicked and beaten. I never suggested charges against the kid, I never suggested the teacher should have sucked it up and beat the kid off, I never said this is much about nothing. I just felt that in the interest of fairness, it should be noted that a teacher was kicked and beaten.

[pnwmom]

105. The term "assault" covered the situation well. Anyone who wanted

to know the details had only to go to the link for more.

But, as I said, it doesn't matter how he assaulted her. HE'S STILL NOT RESPONSIBLE.

[DS1]

114. Again

I'm not arguing that point.

[ulysses]

117. but what *are* you arguing?

The lack of detail in the OP concerning the "assault"?

[DS1]

122. Yes, that pretty much sums it up

[Pithlet]

131. So, why exactly are the details important?

Are there levels where criminal charges against this 6 year old autistic boy would have been appropriate? If not - and I'm assuming that most people on DU would think that charges would never be appropriate, though I'm fully aware that may be assuming too much for some - then it's hard to see how those details could have been relevant. I'm not understanding the cherry picking accusation, either.

[NashVegas]

185. I Would Call Them Relevant

At the time of DS1's post, the majority of responses were knee-jerking 'bad, silly, evil, school' variety.

Imagine if the newspaper article left that out, as well, and allowed the local populace to get whipped into a frenzy. It's irresponsible. No, we aren't in a place where responsible journalism is required, but if someone wants to call someone on it, I'm not sure what the problem is.

[Pithlet]

196. It is never appropriate to charge a 6 year old criminally.

Autistic or not. Adding that bit of information doesn't change that. The implication is that people might feel differently if they knew that detail. Most probably won't on a progressive board. If the detail doesn't really change the angle of the story, then I don't see how the OP leaving it out is significant in any way. She isn't reporting it for a news source . She's posting about it on a message board for comment and discussion. She wasn't even posting a biased source because that detail was included in the story for everyone to see. The accusation that anyone in this thread was jerking knees is unfounded also, because that detail was included in the story she posted.

[NashVegas]

197. It Is Never Appropriate for a 6-Year Old to Smack a Teacher Around, Either

And therein lies the quandary. Autism or not, his was not acceptable behavior in a mixed classroom for regular curricula, where people are there to learn and teach, not to defend themselves against physical abuse. If pressing charges is the only way to get the kid out of a classroom he doesn't belong in, so be it.

As it happens there's an update: Nathan Darnell's parents pulled him out of the school, and charges have been dropped.

She wasn't even posting a biased source because that detail was included in the story for everyone to see. The accusation that anyone in this thread was jerking knees is unfounded also, because that detail was included in the story she posted.

The detail of exactly what the kid did was not in the OP. "Nathan grabbed her by the shirt, pulled her backwards and began punching and kicking her." This happens all the time on DU, most especially in GD. Some "oh, now they're beating up on ..." topic is posted, with important details left out.

Highlighting this omission doesn't make anyone an ogre.

[Solon]

33. Cherrypicking?!?! You do realize this child doesn't even have the capacity to be responsible...

for his own actions, don't you?

[DS1]

63. see post #60

I said nothing of the sort

[pnwmom]

81. Who cares? He's a 6 year old. He's not at the age of reason,

and he's autistic, with the mental age of a 3 year old.

It's up to the teacher to handle him, and if she can't, then it's up to the school to find him an appropriate placement.

[ulysses]

20. oh for fuck's sake.

He's six. If I'd taken every special needs child who hit or kicked me to court, I'd still be there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. LOL I know what you mean

I have been lucky. I have only had one kid try to assault me. And the training I got in restraining came in handy. Also, this kid's parents supported me to the hilt.

One of my kids ran away this week. We had to call 911. It was a frickin mess. I hate cross categorical. I want to be an LD teacher again.

[ulysses]

57. I saw your post about that in the ed group.

I started out LD-only, and it's still what I know best, but I quickly found that, at least down here, what I had was really cross-category anyway. "Secondary" or undiagnosed EBD (or social maladjustment), or just some 200-pound badass who decided he didn't want to be in my class that day. Hell, I don't even bother filing workman's comp.

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. The LD kids are really getting screwed

Teaching them is my calling and seeing how they are being penalized just tears at my heart. I am so frustrated I could just scream. I now reduce the minutes of every LD kid on my caseload as much as I can get away with. They aren't getting an education in my room and are better off in a regular classroom. It tears me up but it is what is best for them under this insane system.

[Irishonly]

201. I Know What You Mean

I think least restrictive environment for many districts translates to cheapest way to educate. I taught a special day class, resourse, alternative ed and emotionally disturbed kids. When I worked in alternative education and taught in a group home I was given training in restraining. I had one student throw his student desk at me but it was too heavy and his aim was terrible.

The placement was wrong for this child. Regular classroom teachers are given one class in special needs children. They aren't trained to handle many types of special education children, let alone autistic.

[Canuckistanian]

73. I have a cousin who's a special ed teacher

She specializes in severely autisitc kids.

She says that the first week in school is always rough for her because she gets a lot of bruises, especially on her arms.

She never ONCE considered laying charges against a 6-year old.

[ulysses]

83. autism is on the outskirts of what I normally deal with.

My normal caseload is learning disabilities/emotional behavior disorders/mild intellectual disabilities/other health impairments (ADHD, etc.), in roughly that order. Some outliers have had disturbances beyond our capacity, but with whom we've had to deal anyway. To be perfectly honest, what's usually gotten me physically fucked up has been getting between those and other kids.

[piesRsquare]

137. Insanity

The whole idea of grouping kids with learning disabilities and mild intellectual disabilities with the kids who have emotional and behavioral disorders is absolutely insane. And the notion of certain emotional disorders being classified as "nonverbal learning disabilities" so the kids can be grouped with mild/moderate LD'ers is appalling. It's also insulting!

I have ADHD and dyslexia and was at a school for kids with special needs (from 3rd through 6th grade), and I sure as shit would have been a seriously messed up teenager (more than I already was) if I had been in classes that are like today's "LD" classrooms.

I briefly taught at a special ed school two years ago (briefly meaning two months). I was told the school was for those with mild to moderate LD, that the students I would be working with would be primarily AD/HD and mild intellectual disabilities. After the third time that a particular Asperger's kid went nuts (physically assaulting at least 5 faculty/administration, throwing my and another teacher's classes into upheaval, forcing the Junior High into "lockdown mode", screaming and pounding on walls and doors, etc) I quit; as I had explained to the headmaster before, I work with kids with Learning Disorders/Disabilities, NOT Emotional Disturbances/Disorders.

[ulysses]

141. I'm not sure I agree.

The jury is still out in many ways, but having taught self-contained for some time, I'll tell you that a room full of nothing but kids with emotional/behavior disorders doesn't work much.

Inclusion isn't right for every child to be sure, but strict segregation isn't either.

[piesRsquare]

150. So group them with the AD/HD kids?

How about grouping them with the Down's kids? Or the severely intellectually disabled/mentally retarded kids?

AD/HD kids have enough problems focusing. Grouping them with kids who are prone to outbursts causes even MORE distraction.

Doesn't exactly meet the needs of those with AD/HD. What about their rights?

[proud2BlibKansan]

161. Sadly the AD/HD kids are not our worst concern

Most of them can function in a regular classroom with a few interventions. So a program just for them is a pipe dream. The kids who are really struggling with mainstreaming are the ones like the kid you mentioned. There are some pretty severely disabled kids (like maybe the one in the OP) who need more restricted settings. IMO, too many kids are being mainstreamed and it is a money saving step, rather than doing what is best for kids.

[DaveJ]

23. I kissed my 1st grade teacher

So my parents tell me -- I can't remember it since after all I was in 1st grade! Good thing my teacher didn't press charges, or I guess I'd be on a sex offender's list to this day.

This is total B.S.

[PA Democrat]

24. What does charging the boy solve? It won't cure his autism, and punishment

is not an effective means of changing behavior in children with autism.

I wonder if the school had an effective behavior plan in place for the child and how well the aide was trained.

I hope the local chapter of the Autism Society can help the family. Shame on the ignorant D.A. who filed the charges. Sounds like the Autism Society needs to hold a news conference outside of his office.

[NashVegas]

28. I Think It's More About Altering Parental Behavior / Attitudes

There are some choice quotes in my post above, that seem to point to a certain parental apathy, regarding Nathan's classroom disruptions.

[DaveJ]

30. How is 'parental apathy' relevant?

They are punishing the child to punish the parents who are already under enormous strain??? I don't understand....

[NashVegas]

37. It's Only Speculation, But

The parents seem to be saying that the school is just going to have to put up with Nathan's behavior, while the school (or the aide) is saying, "no, we(I) don't."

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. I think you are right on both counts

The school does have to learn to deal with the kid. That is their job. On the other hand, in my state, we are required to call the police if a kid assaults anyone. It doesn't matter if the kid is disabled.

So it's really a can't win for losing situation.

[Common Sense Party]

109. Then state laws are screwed up. This happened to our son last year

Beginning of school year, new school, new teacher, new aides.

My severely autistic, 13-year-old son, who is a BIG boy, gets mad at his high school aide and pushes her, apparently off a chair in the lunch room.

The principal calls us in and says he was going to call the cops and report it as an assault. I asked him what he thought that would solve. My kid wouldn't understand a word the cops were saying, couldn't speak to give his side of the story, and doesn't know that what he did was even wrong.

Turns out that the little aide--while meaning well--had been withholding parts of my son's lunch until he would say the word to request the item. That's a no-no. You don't mess with my son's food.

[ulysses]

111. you don't mess with any child's food.

I'd have pushed the aide too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. What an idiotic thing to do

But count your blessings. I have been a special ed teacher for 15 years now and I have NEVER had a para. So if your kid was on my caseload, he wouldn't be eating with a para. He would be all alone in that lunchroom with all those other kids.

[Common Sense Party]

188. Yikes. NO para? My son's teacher has 3.

After the pushing incident last year, the school, thankfully, hired a very patient BIG guy to work closely with my son and others. We have had no repeats since then.

I am VERY sorry that you are flying solo. That's a heavy burden to bear alone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

191. Yes it is very stressful

Thanks.

[DaveJ]

96. Autistic kids will do what they want

My wife works with autistics kids and their parents tend to come off that way. They are under enormous strain having kids that will not mentally develop normally. They aren't like normal kids who can just be left alone and expected to behave. There's not much the parents can do, and having negative support from the educational system makes it worse.

I know at age 6 I had no idea what I was doing, and as far as I know I had no mental disorders at the time.

On the other hand, I wonder at what age can someone call the police on a kid? When exactly is the cutoff? Can someone call the police on a 6 month old for peeing on them when changing their diapers. Just a thought.

[EFerrari]

38. Then you are getting it right. It's not reasonable.

I got this attitude, too, and very often when I was dealing with my husband's mental illness. If I could be blamed, somehow that was a solution. :crazy:

[EFerrari]

36. Maybe his parents are tired.

I have never known any parents of an autistic child to have the luxury of apathy.

[NashVegas]

41. No Doubt They Are

But something's gotta give.

[EFerrari]

43. Yep. And it's usually the family.

There's no need for these situations to be so destructive. I mean, we have the tech and we have the dough. What's the deal?

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Actually we don't have the tech or the dough

One reason these kids are in regular classrooms is expense. There is a severe shortage in special ed and it is more cost effective to put more and more kids with serious disabilities in regular classrooms with a special ed resource teacher in the school, serving all the disabled kids in a resource (pull out) room. My caseload is triple what it was 3 years ago. And my kids are more disabled. Plus I serve more disabilities. I used to be an LD teacher. Now I have mentally retarded kids and mentally ill kids and a hearing impaired child. (I guess I need to find a sign language class and pay for it out of my own pocket.)

It's a fucking mess and I don't know how I can do this much longer. Between this new cross categorical model and NCLB, if I don't retire after this year, it will be a miracle. I didn't think I would have this kind of job stress this late in my career.

[EFerrari]

66. We do have the dough. We're just putting into Halliburton

and Blackwater.

It is a fucking mess. A horrible needless one. :(

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. Yes that is true

But we have never fairly funded education, especially for kids with disabilities. I have 5 kids who need a full time para with them all day long. It would make a huge difference for them. But that is a pipe dream. In all the years I have been in this business, I have never had a para. It's just me. I can't even take a sick day without chaos erupting for my kids.

[EFerrari]

140. That's nuts. And I know what you mean.

In twelve years, I never could take a day off or who knows what fresh hell would break out.

[ulysses]

44. so, what should give?

Put all kids on the spectrum in their own classes? schools? what?

[NashVegas]

52. Somewhere In Between

I don't think kids with violent disruptions should be forced to be in a classroom situation where things can get so out of hand. That seems to be where the main problem lies.

On the other side of it, you have cases like what midlife_mo_Jo is going through.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. The answer is training teachers

and putting these kids in smaller classes. Their needs are not being met in regular ed and we are heading for another parent revolt. That's how we got special ed in the first place. The parents of these kids lobbied for it. I tell parents that all the time. 33 years ago, their kids were not entitled to an education in a public school. And it wasn't educators who changed that; it was parents. They need to step up and challenge this fucked up system once again.

[ulysses]

116. my understanding

is that it's parents who are behind the rush to inclusion. :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

125. And inclusion will work in many cases if we train the teachers

Are they training the regular ed teachers in your state? They aren't doing that here. It is heartbreaking and so unfair to our kids,

[ulysses]

132. kind of.

Let's just say that the spirit is willing. Sometimes.

[PA Democrat]

55. I have a child with autism.

Personally, I'll refrain from judging them. It's way too easy to blame the parents. There are way too many kids with special needs way too little money to do the job right.

My child has been mainstreamed for most of her school day since she started kindergarten. She's in high school now. It hasn't always been easy. I've found that teachers' training and attitudes are the biggest determining factor for her success. Her peers are incredibly helpful and kind to her. They have taught her so much about social interactions and humor and I think she has taught them that they have wonderful gifts to share.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

68. Please don't take this the wrong way

but you are very lucky your child falls into the "autism" category. It just seems to open so many more doors than some other disabilities. At least most teachers know what autism is. My child has brain damage, does not qualify under mental retardation, just a few points to high (CRAP), yet is emotionally half the age of the other kids, and much, much less capable. And it's brain damage, so it's permanent. He qualifies for special services under OHI and ADHD.

I'm very fortunate that the principal has taken a special interest in my son's case for her own personal reasons I don't need to get into. However, educating the teachers about my child's condition is a continual nightmare because he tends to look more capable than he is. Every year, his new teachers just know that he's just not living up to his abilities, blah, blah, blah. Somewhere between six and ten weeks later, they swallow their pride and issue their mea culpa.
EVERY DAMN YEAR they look at me like I'm a crazy woman when I tell them that my most important consideration is his protection and his self esteem because they know SO MUCH MORE than I do about my own child.

It's a damn nightmare to have a child with a disability no one understands, even with well meaning people.

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. I so feel for you

And you are so right. The teacher makes all the difference. And some of us really are trying to make a difference for your kid. But they are making our job pretty damn hard, if not impossible.

By "they" I mean the PTB, not your kids.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

97. YOu know,

once the teacher actually understands my child, we've had some wonderful experiences, but I get so absolutely FED UP with the idea that they are the experts and I'm just the mom.

Last year, when I was laying out my expectations for my child's school year, I mentioned that I knew he wouldn't ever get a regular diploma, but that I hoped to accomplish "a, b and c" this year. (He's still in elementary school.) You know the drill.

Well, this award winning teacher looked me straight in the face and severely chastised me for having such low expectations for my son. Honestly, sometimes I just want to strangle someone it is so frustrating. He seemed like a normal kid to her who just needed some "extra help." That's the whole fracking point! He looks more capable than he actually is, and I try to so hard to explain that to everyone.

This year, I showed up to meet his teacher the day before school, and she hadn't looked at his permanent folder yet. She knew NOTHING about him. One week into school she was still sending home regular math homework. By the end of the week, I sent it back torn in half.

And to top this story off, this school has again met the qualifications for "exemplary."

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :sarcasm:

[PA Democrat]

120. Edited. Dupe

[PA Democrat]

136. No, I don't take it the wrong way.

Unfortunately, even with autism there is such a wide range of behaviors and abilities that every kid's needs are unique.

When my daughter was in elementary school, the biggest single difference for a successful school year was the teacher. The worst year of my life was the year we had a teacher who didn't feel children with autism should be mainstreamed. After that year, I did some research on my own and would request a specific teacher. I found that other parents, especially other parents who had kids with special needs or learning disabilities were a great source. Also, it sounds as if the principal at your son's school might be able to help.

I would document what techniques, modifications work well for your son. Sometimes something as simple as his seating assignment can make a difference. Does he need study guides? Does he do better taking a test in a resource room where there are fewer distractions? Has your school ever done any tolerance training programs with the other kids to address teasing and bullying?

I wish I could say there was a simple answer. It's frustrating and exhausting, isn't it? I wish you and your son the best.:hug:

[midlife_mo_Jo]

151. thanks very much!

[demigoddess]

157. been there myself, also i have to warn people that 'someone who takes an

interest' in the child may be simply acting as the school's witness. That was usually how they introduced the school's witness to me in IEP meetings. Took a while for me to catch on. I believe you have a right to take your own witness to all meetings and I would do that,even the impromptu ones. You would be surprised at the lies we were told by school teachers.

[EFerrari]

70. How are you all doing, PA Democrat?

It's good to read you. :hi:

[PA Democrat]

104. We're having a great school year so far!

My daughter, who used to be so socially isolated that it broke my heart, now has a circle of friends and loves high school. Our school district was very anti-inclusion, anti-mainstreaming when she first started school. It's been a struggle and we had school years I didn't think we'd make it, but it has paid off big time. This year, she's fully included for all of her classes except three which are small group learning support and has a wonderful special ed teacher in charge of her program.

Now if we could end this war and get rid of Bush and Cheney, then live would be almost perfect!

[EFerrari]

124. Thank goodness! So great to hear.

There's always that one person at school that makes things work. :toast:

[midlife_mo_Jo]

128. IT's always so nice to read some good news for a change! nt

nt

[EFerrari]

130. buggy dupe

[mmonk]

26. I personally think there is a movement now

to set back the rights of the learning disabled with these "stories" out there. I heard where there was a school that was overcrowded, so they stuck or held classes for special ed students in one of the bathrooms. This nation is going backwards with and on speed and is increasingly intolerant.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

45. Well, I would be one of them

My child is mainstreamed, and it is RIDICULOUS. He's several years emotionally younger than the kids he's in class with, and he's years behind in work. Behind being incorrect, because he's never going to catch up. Yes, he does go to resource room. He needs to STAY in someplace like resource room.

No, instead, some idiots decided my son would be better served where other kids could pick on him all day long. What in the hell is he learning if I don't stay on top of these teachers and administrators constantly?

Here's what he's learning:

That he's worthless
That he's dumb
That he's angry
That he has no control over is life
That he's a victim for others to pick on

Kind of sounds like a recipe for a future prison inmate to me.

What does it sound like to you?

Mainstreaming all of these children "for their good," has served the same purpose of closing all the mental health facilities and putting those patients on the streets. Yeah...they're much better off living under an overpass unmedicated and uncared for.

[ulysses]

49. is your son on an IEP?

You do know you have a lot of control over his educational plan, right?

[midlife_mo_Jo]

53. Yes, he's on an IEP.

And we're going to be making major chanages this year....or else.

And, by the way, thanks for your concern. :)

It's extremely frustrating.

[ulysses]

59. you don't have to wait for the annual review.

You can request changes now. I'm a special ed teacher, and plead with you to give a fair shake to the rest of his team, but don't sit on it if you have concerns now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. Yes Uly is right; ask for an IEP review now

Don't wait for the annual review. One of my parents did that last week. We had a meeting 2 days later and his placement was changed.

I understand your frustration. If I can do anything to help, please PM me.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

102. Thanks so much.

You wouldn't happen to be familiar with Texas schools? :)

Remember, Bush had a headstart on us. :argh:

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. No but I know the federal regs backwards and forwards

And the admins I work for came from Texas. :)

[midlife_mo_Jo]

126. I hope you don't mnd if I PM you sometime?

Thanks so much. :)

There are very active groups in my area for parents of children with autism and for parents of children who are mentally retarded. I am trying to gleam as much information from them as possible, but when the mom whose kid with autism tells me how lucky I am that my child is so "normal," I want to throw up. I know they don't mean it, but "normal" is what is dangerous for my son. Appearing "normal" can get him in a lot of trouble with the law when he's older and has been used and abused by others. sigh

[proud2BlibKansan]

135. Of course I don't mind

Yes PM me anytime.

[Midlodemocrat]

174. Get an advocate for your child.

I am one here in VA. If you are like most parents with a special needs child, you are overwhelmed with the IEP process itself. Get an advocate. Someone who knows the federal regulations AND the state regulations backwards and forwards. If possible, get one who also knows the county regulations, although this isn't as important.

You would be AMAZED at the amount of information that is withheld from parents in order to keep costs contained. You would also be AMAZED at what YOU and YOUR CHILD are entitled to.

Feel free to contact me anytime if you would like assistance of any kind.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. As a volunteer for The Arc, I have lots of developmentally disabled friends.

A number of them were institutionalized when they were children. When they got out of the institution, they were not at all equipped for the outside world.

"Mainstreaming" means many different things to different people. I know a young lady with cerebal palsy. She can't walk, can't talk and only communicates via her emotional state. Nevertheless, her life was enriched by school, and the lives she touched in school have enabled her (with the backing and vision of her parents) to build a business which will support her care when her parents are no longer able.

I have another friend who's son has recently transitioned out of school and he's sad, depressed and despondent now that he doesn't have school. He is severly autistic and nonverbal.

I respect your views, but I'm in a similar boat to you and I see it 180° different.

If he's being taught he's worthless in school, the problem is the school. The problem is not "mainstreaming's" intent; to make him part of the community.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

80. My son looks very normal

and that's a big part of the problem. My friends' with children who have Down's Syndrome rarely get picked on. Most children have - at least - been taught to be kind to children with DS.

The problem with my son is that he is a sweet, gentle little boy who never gets into trouble but is nevertheless very quirky, very ackward - only thing is he doesn't come with a label like autism, mental retardation, etc. It's like if you don't get the right label, you don't get the same level of compassion from the students. He's just "the weirdo," you know? He wants to make friends, but nobody wants him around. I can understand that, as hard as it is for me to type this. He's developmentally much younger than the other students. Ånd teachers don't seem to know what to do with him. When I tell them what "so and so" said to him on the playground, they tell me that they never see any "trouble," and that he's never a behavior problem. Well, DUH. No, he's not a behavior problem - he's self esteem is just being destroyed, that's all.

[lumberjack_jeff]

106. It is absolutely true that the label of autism helps qualify for services.

But it is also true that many children on the autism spectrum seem, at first glance, to be neurotypical. Then they appear weird. The autism label only becomes germane when trying to explain why he's weird. Unlike Downs, the physical manifestations of autism, although they do exist, are only apparent to a pediatric neurologist.

I struggle with the impulse to protect my child from the world too. But for me eventually a fairly basic view of my role takes precedence: to create a self-sufficient grownup.

I've met enough grownups with disabilities to know that it won't be easy but it can be done, and that insulating them from the community didn't help with the people in my acquaintance.

One thing I do know for sure, parents of children with developmental disabilities give 110% of themselves.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

115. The statistical chance of my child being self sufficient is remote

Because he has brain damage, some things just won't change. You see all this stuff on tv and read so much about the brain's plasticity, but nothing really helps most kids like mine. When he's eighteen, he will more than likely be doing 2nd grade math, and even then he won't be able to do all the word problems. His reading is fluent, but his comprehension is very, very sketchy. He lacks awareness of a lot of things that you and I take for granted, which I don't want to get into on a public board. On a good day, he might recognize that a ten dollar bill is more than five ones. And, yes, he does seem much more capable than this.

[lumberjack_jeff]

123. I know several young adults with fairly profound deficits...

... with appropriate support, can work, be (mostly) self-sufficient and participating members of the community.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

149. When I think of self sufficient, I just

don't think of needing life-long support.

I fully expect my son to live a very meaningful and happy life, and I'm sure that will include some kind of work.

[lumberjack_jeff]

172. We all need life-long support to one degree or another

Few of us are entirely independent.

If I thought that my son would have to be institutionalized when I die, I don't know how I'd cope. He deserves a meaningful and happy life independent from his parents, and I think that his presence (although often difficult) in a general education setting is necessary for him to get there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. Thrusting every kid with disabilities into a regular ed setting is not right

Some do well and some don't. The key is to determine what is best for each individual child, instead of blanket mainstreaming policies.

[lumberjack_jeff]

113. Yes, that is true.

But your apparent intent with this article is to make a case that a verbal autistic kindergartener is not generally suitable for a general ed classroom.

I give vigorous thanks that no one made that determination on my son at age six.

Too many schools, instead of trying to manage behaviors, throw all the misbehaving kids into a special ed classroom. Concentrating them together requires less manpower to manage them.

Of course, they learn little - except how to model *really* inappropriate behaviors from the others in the room, but that's a reasonable price to pay in the name of efficiency.

The specific school setting in which he acted out is irrelevant. The child is more likely, not less likely, to exhibit bad behavior in a special ed classroom because that's what he sees every day and in fact is what the room itself is intended to facilitate.

I don't mean to pick on you, but look around your classroom. There are floor mats, "bodily fluid cleanup kits", therapy balls, benches, swings, maybe a therapy trike and various PT paraphernalia. Is there a world map? Are there a wide variety of story books? Readers? Equipment for doing practical science?

The "learning centers" in my experience are built and equipped for one purpose: mollify, prevent from harm and isolate kids with inappropriate behavior. Education is a secondary or tertiary goal.

If their behavior can be managed in another way (I daresay that they often if not usually can) then a general ed classroom is a better setting in which to learn academics.

[proud2BlibKansan]

129. THIS autistic kindergartener is obviously not doing well in a regular kdg class

I made no blanket statement about autistic kids and where they belonged. That is not my intent. My intent was to show ONE case where the placement is not a good fit. And to point out that we aren't doing a very good job of training our teachers to deal with kids with disabilities.

Also, these kids are NOT being concentrated together in a special ed class. And some of them still need that. Not all kids do well in a mainstreamed setting. Some thrive. Many don't.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. Exactly. n/t

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

27. The fact he is a special needs child is a red herring

NO SIX YEAR OLD should be charged with a criminal offense. End of story.

As for the mainstreaming issue I am on the side of those who thinks it was a bad idea that should be discontinued in most cases.

And yes the parents sound like a piece of work.... but lord knows if I had a six year old and a teachers aide charged him criminally I would have given the media a juicier piece of my mind then they did.

[BlooInBloo]

31. No it's not. It aggravates the fact you mention.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

42. Actually we are on the same page.

It is more outrageous that this is being done to an autistic child. I feel however that any six year old in these circumstances is ridiculous. The autism is simply the cherry on the cake.

[BlooInBloo]

107. Yup.

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. Children are entitled to a free and appropriate education.

It's not a privilege, it's a right.

A school that cannot manage the behaviors of a six year old needs professional assistance.

What IS a red herring is the distinction of whether the child was in a general ed classroom or a special ed classroom. His behavior will be equally problematic in either setting given a school district that has demonstrated that they can't handle it.

[pnwmom]

89. You're right. No six year old should be charged with a criminal offense.

They don't have the self-control or the capacity to form criminal intent.

[proud2BlibKansan]

138. I sort of agree

But there really are very violent 6 year olds. So while criminal charges are probably not appropriate, referring them to the juvenile system or family court or protective services is sometimes necessary.

[pnwmom]

139. Even the juvenile justice system isn't set up for 6 year olds. But family

court or protective services would be an appropriate referral.

[proud2BlibKansan]

152. The important thing is to get kids help when they need it

And often, parents do need help for kids as young as 6.

[pnwmom]

153. I'm sure they do. And with autistic kids, they need help from

the very beginning.

[Jed Dilligan]

34. The prison state, flames in its eyes, hisses "Feed me your children."

The Good Germans click their heels.

On edit: I have a friend with 4DA on his rap sheet. The crime: flicking a plastic pen at another kid in a "tough love" home for homeless teens.

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. When my son was a 6 year old first grader...

... he got frustrated at something in school, picked up a toy truck and threw it. The toy hit his paraeducator in the mouth, splitting her lip and injuring her quite badly. (He didn't throw the toy *at* her, he is now a third grader and can now barely throw a baseball to me if I stand about 10 feet away).

The difference between the circumstance as described in the above article and the circumstances as it happened to us is that his paraeducator had the prior experience of having been the guardian to her autistic sister and had vast experience as a paraeducator. Also, she and my family talked on a daily basis, and I knew that she had his interests at heart, and that I, in turn would lobby her administrators to get whatever she thought he needed.

The experience scared him so badly that nothing like it has ever happened again. He is now in his general ed classroom full time (except for occupational therapy and speech therapy) and has only occasional need for a paraeducator and almost never needs to be in the special ed room.

His success is entirely the result of having been paired with a skilled paraeducator when he was 5, 6 and 7.

In Washington, The Arc is lobbying the state legislature for funding to enable school districts to enlist the services of consultants trained in behavior management for children with Autism and related disorders. I hope it succeeds because not every child will have the good fortune to be paired with someone as skilled as Myrna.

In the story above, the root cause is an ill-equipped, ill-supported paraeducator who, for whatever reason, has a hostile relationship with the parents.

The victim is the child.

[Evoman]

48. *sigh*

Anybody wanna help me build my starship? I wanna fly to another solar system and get away from the various authoritarian fucktards and common sense-lacking idiots.

[varkam]

50. Getting the criminal justice system involved on this one is totally irresponsible.

For fuck's sake.

[depakid]

61. A kid is acting out. Call the police! File a complaint!

Not that most Americans realize it- or would care, but people abroad look at instances like these find the adults' behavior pathetic.

[varkam]

71. Grab the cuffs and charge the tazers.

What the hell ever happened to time out?

[valerief]

76. What an asshole. Unless Miss Glinda is seven years old, then

she's definitely an asshole. Is she retarded or something? Should a mentally disabled adult be taking care of a mentally disabled child?

[midlife_mo_Jo]

85. "Is she retarded or something?" :wtf:

I really don't think I can roll my eyes enough for you to get the point. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[valerief]

163. See post 162. nt

[midlife_mo_Jo]

168. You still apparently don't get it!

Asking if someone is retarded because you don't like their behavior is a slur against people with mental disabilities.

[valerief]

176. Aw, loosen up. It's a big world out there with a lot of words. Hey, how do you hide your profile?

I can't figure out how to hide mine.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

190. Very politically correct, I must say

And I don't know how I hid my profile! I wrote a whole paragraph about myself, so I thought everyone could see it.

Peace.

[pnwmom]

92. No, it's the prosecutor that should be hung out to dry.

He or she made the decision to carry this case forward.

[proud2BlibKansan]

103. Bingo!

You are exactly right.

[valerief]

162. It reads like it was Glinda who filed the charge, so I'd say she started it.

<<It was just last week when Nathan's teacher's aide, Glenda Schiltz, filed a juvenile fourth degree misdemeanor assault charge against him.>>

Yes, the fact that the case would proceed is an indictment against the justice system, but we already know that's broken. We can only rely on the rationality of the populace to behave justly, and Miss Glinda did not do that. She fed the raccoon and that varmint is rabid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

164. She is probably just following the law

In my state, we are mandated to report all assaults to the police. So if this had happened where I teach, we would have risked losing our jobs if we had NOT reported it. The prosecutor who chose to file charges is the one who needs to have his head examined. And the legislators who passed these draconian laws also deserve our criticism. But the teachers and school employees are just doing what the law requires.

[valerief]

165. Good gawd, how can anyone interpret a LITTLE kid whaling on you

as assault? It baffles the mind.

[proud2BlibKansan]

166. Have you read the statutes?

You bet it's considered assault.

[piesRsquare]

118. dupe

[piesRsquare]

119. HELLO?!

"Despite being autistic, Nathan is integrated with all kindergartners at Taylor Elementary.

His parents believe Schiltz and other teachers there are ill-prepared to handle special needs students.

His mother openly questions Schiltz's credentials." (emphasis added)

Surprise, people! Schiltz is not a Special Ed teacher!

If you want a teacher that is well prepared to handle special needs students, put the kid in a class taught by a licensed Special Ed teacher who is supported by two state-mandated teacher aides!

This is ridiculous!

My bet is that criminal charges are being filed to force the parents to accept appropriate placement for their child--which is in Special Ed. I teach special needs students (including autistic and Asperger's students)--have done so for years--and some parents demand their kids be fully mainstreamed when it is beyond inappropriate. A child that is knocking down a teacher and punching and kicking her belongs in Special Ed!

"More training" my ass. The woman didn't choose to become a Special Ed teacher and should not be forced into it. All teachers are required to take coursework in mainstreaming special needs students, but mainstreaming does not mean "Special Ed teacher by default".

Imagine the other kindergarteners having to witness one of their classmates going violent and beating up their teacher. Talk about frightening! Kindergartners do not have the psychological/cognitive development to understand that this is a disorder and to not be frightened by it.

This shit happens constantly. Enough is enough. The "Nazi/Police State" hype on this site is getting stupid. This kid has rights, but so do the teacher and the other children in that class!

[LisaL]

127. I also think special needs children need to be taught with

other special needs children. It's not fair to the other children to have a special need child in the class, especially if that child is disruptive, as was the case when I was in school.

[ulysses]

134. do you view that as an absolute?

All special needs kids segregated? If so, why?

[piesRsquare]

143. Some kids don't belong in "regular" classrooms

Yeah, I used to be a major idealist, against what could be argued as segregation, etc. But some kids just simply don't belong mainstreamed.

Many special needs kids do very well with mainstreaming. And by all means, place them in regular classrooms where appropriate. But there are some kids whose needs exceed that which can be provided in a regular classroom. As I said in my previous post, special needs kids have rights, but so do non-special-needs kids. And too many times nowadays, the "rights" of the few special needs kids (or rather, the demands of their parents) infringe upon the rights of the many non-special-needs kids--and their teachers.

Young children should not have to be forced to witness a special needs child having a meltdown or going violent. That is stressful and traumatizing. I've seen adults get frightened when an Asperger's child loses it. Forcing young children to go through that on a regular basis at school violates their basic right to feel safe at school. It's detrimental in the long run for special needs students as well, because the non-special-needs kids whose needs are placed on the back burner in the name of "mainstreaming" then grow up to be resentful and downright hostile towards people with special needs, equating "equal access" with "special treatment" (as that was their experience).

It's cases like this 6-year-old's inappropriate placement that contribute greatly to intolerance.

[ulysses]

146. again, I'm not sure I buy

the idea that inclusion increases the degree to which special needs kids are viewed with derision when compared with my own school experiences, when they were known as either "that jerk who won't sit down in class" or "those kids who get trotted out for assemblies but who we never see otherwise".

[piesRsquare]

158. I'm referring to "inappropriate inclusion"

Inclusion in general does not increase intolerance of those with special needs. Mainstreaming kids who cannot function in a regular classroom setting (such as the 6-year-old in question), I believe, does.

When I was at teaching at a special ed school (mentioned in an earlier post), the AD/HD and well-adjusted Asperger's students in my 8th grade Algebra class were very, very resentful of the kid with severe Asperger's who was constantly disruptive and had periodic meltdowns/tantrums. It was extremely difficult to get anything accomplished in class. This kid did not belong in a mild/moderate LD classroom, let alone a regular classroom. Multiple teachers (including myself) resigned because of this kid.

On the other hand, when I was teaching in public school, regular classroom, two kids with Asperger's were mainstreamed into one of my sixth grade math classes (they were normally in the self-contained Special Day Class). They were wonderful to work with. They had some extra needs, but the SDC aide came to my class during that time and helped out. I don't think any of the other students were even aware that these kids were SDC. Inclusion/mainstreaming for these kids (at least for mathematics) was very appropriate.

Here in California (don't know where you are), I have noticed the language getting nastier in newspapers, forums, etc when discussing special needs kids. People are feeling that their non-special-needs kids are getting shafted while the special needs kids get special treatment. That's not a good thing.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

170. You're right

Having several children, I have had children in gifted programs in school all the way to special education services for serious disabilities.

One of my children was in class with a child with an emotional disability who was extremely disruptive, IMO, but his parents threatened lawsuits for years because they wanted him mainstreamed. After sending another child to the hopsital with serious injuries, he was finally removed from mainstream classrooms, but the children and teachers had to endure frequent outbursts over the years that interfered with their right to an education. He was actually quite a lovely child in many ways, but by the time he was forced out of a mainstream classroom, the children intensely disliked him.

The good news is that we caught up with him years later in another school, and he was doing much, much better, but I think his parents finally realized they had to get medical and some kind of psychological help for him from the things he told us.

[PA Democrat]

144. Guess what? After those "special needs kids" turn 21, then they're

special needs adults who are turned loose on society. If they have been segregated during all of their school years, how do you expect them to magically adjust to the world at large at age 21?

There are no more institutions to hide them away in. There is a critical shortage of group homes. They could be living next door to you with aging parents, or on their own with inadequate support. Don't you think we need to make an effort to integrate them into society as much as possible as children?

[ulysses]

147. this is a good point.

It's not a special ed world out there.

[PA Democrat]

148. And funding for services for adults with disabilities is in bad shape

and getting worse. Bush has been cutting funds for job training programs and housing programs for adults with disabilities. It's really sad.

[piesRsquare]

155. Absolutely

We most definitely need to integrate them into society as much as possible as children. Not even make an effort--we need to do it, and without hesitation.

Integration can be done in elective/non-core classes at school (art, music, PE, dance, drama, etc). After-school sports, extra-curricular activities, recreational programs, youth groups, church/synagogue/mosque/etc groups, clubs, summer camp, and so on and so forth.

Core academic classes at school is not necessarily the appropriate--nor the ideal--setting to socialize a special needs kid.

[PA Democrat]

159. The reality of options available to kids and parents is very often far from ideal.

I've been in that situation and have faced criticism for choosing what was the best of two horrible options.

Case in point. My school district had a pitiful track record when it came to placing kids in the least restrictive environment. Several years ago, they lost numerous lawsuits over LRE, and the district was placed under a court order to address the problem. So, in a complete knee-jerk reaction, they completely eliminated all learning support classrooms and went to full inclusion for every student except for children in life skills. I found out less than a week before school started that the learning support classroom where my daughter received small group instruction for a number of her classes was gone.

We reopened her IEP, but she was forced to start school in this full inclusion setting. No surprise, her behaviors deteriorated and I began receiving phone calls about her behavioral issues. The principal, who was an old-timer who made his disdain for mainstreaming kids with disabilities very clear, started lobbying us to send our child to a segregated school. He attempted to paint my husband and I as unreasonable. I guess it's a good thing that she never struck an aide, or I could be the parent being bashed in the court of public opinion.

The long and short of my story is that, we had to threaten legal action to have an appropriate placement option restored for my daughter and a number of other children who were in the same situation. Today my daughter is in high school. She is fully included for about 60% of her day, including for some core academic classes. She has an aide in some of her mainstream classes, but is able to attend several classes without an aide. She is doing beautifully well.

It's not always a clear cut decision, and funding is a major roadblock in doing what is best for kids with special needs.

I hate to see stories like this article, because it usually just draws battle lines and encourages finger-pointing, but does nothing to solve the underlying problems.

[PA Democrat]

167. As far as activities outside of school.....

Unless the parents have considerable time to attend those functions to assist their child or has the financial resources to pay someone to do it, many kids are unable to participate in those activities. I had to become an assistant scout leader so that my child could participate. Parents have worked to get funding to support special needs kids attending activities outside of the school, but that funding has either completely dried up or has been cut to a fraction of what is needed.

[lumberjack_jeff]

173. I disagree with this statement in the strongest possible terms.

No one has a right to be insulated from the presence of individuals different from themselves.

If a general education setting is the least restrictive environment for the child who is entitled to a free and appropriate education, then the teachers and peers must get used to it.

[BlooInBloo]

121. That a 6 year old being charged with a crime generates argument *at all* is fucking pathetic.

[Mythsaje]

154. I know...

Makes me a bit crazy too...

[LostInAnomie]

142. Off topic, but...

I, personally, hate it when newspapers report stories by talking only to the parents. It allows an obviously angry party to make accusations that cannot legally be challenged by the school or teacher. Most school corporations and teachers are forbidden to comment on matters of discipline, and it is unfair of news agencies print only one side of the story, especially, when the parents are handling it in such a childish manner.

[LWolf]

145. I'm sure his parents are correct.

We know that too often there is not an "ideal" placement for a special needs student, but we still have to serve him.

If his capacity is "half the age" of the other kindergarteners, that puts him at 2-3 years old mentally, plus the autism. Is anyone surprised that he's not functioning successfully in a room full of ks? Or that the kindergarten teacher is having trouble managing him, plus all the other students?

The outcome can't be a surprise, although it is certainly a disaster. I'm wondering why the teacher is pressing charges. I understand wanting to take a strong stand with student violence; is she doing this to make a point about putting a special needs student who is potentially violent into a regular ed classroom, or something else?

Personally, I'd be more concerned with making sure that the student had an appropriate placement, and and appropriate program. Before he is 10 or 12 and attacking the teacher or anyone else.

[proud2BlibKansan]

171. The teacher isn't the one pressing charges I don't believe

The prosecutor is. The teacher reported it but a prosecutor decided it was necessary to press charges. At least that's how it works in my state.

[LWolf]

189. That really puts the teacher

between a rock and a hard place, doesn't it?

We're required to report those incidents, but we don't get to decide whether or not to press charges?

What a mess.

[redqueen]

177. deleted

*sigh*

[Kajsa]

178. For the love of all that is good,

this child needs teachers/teachers aides who can handle
students with special needs. It's obvious, these people
can't at all.

" Beat it out of him"? WTH?
Do these asshats have ANY training with Special Needs students?
If not-then he shouldn't be there- get him with people who know what
to do.

My son, 23, has autism.
All of his teachers knew what to do in case of a "meltdown".


What about NCLB compliance?
If they work with SDC students, then they need the training.

NCLB is biting me in the butt right now.
I'm not allowed to Home Teach students in any subject except
English/ ESL, which I'm credentialed for.
That means, I'm not working as a Home Teacher now. ;-(

Where are the compliance Nazis in this case?

I hope his parents never give up and take this all the way to the top.

It shouldn't happen, again.

;-(

[KamaAina]

180. Bad teacher aide! No donut!

Go to your room!

And while we're at it, another boot to the head for the judfge or whoever who is letting this go forward instead of laughing it out of court.

[Kajsa]

183. Hear, hear!

Hi KamaAina,

This sure is a pisser, eh?

Unfortunately, there are a number of teachers/aides
who don't get our kids.
;(


:hi:

[Ilsa]

186. That could easily have been my autistic son a few years ago.

And sometimes he still hits, and it hurts, badly.

I suspect the school doesn't have properly qualified people teaching that class, or they don't have an aide with him. Applied Behavior Analysis is the best thing we've used with our son, but we we still have "events" of lashing out. Our son is in a self-contained classroom, and he does better there.

Treating a six year old disabled student as a criminal is beyond obscene.

[BlooInBloo]

192. Has anyone read "The Case Of The Dead Dog" or something like that?

It's a contemporary feel-good-whodunnit where the star is a young autistic kid. Good story. Just wondering if it gives a semi-accurate feel for what autism is like both 1st and 3rd person.

[KamaAina]

195. "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time"

by Mark Haddon.

http://www.amazon.com/Curious-Incident-Dog-Night-Time/dp/1400032717/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4417052-2311928?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190743150&sr=8-1

Not shabby at all, considering it was written by a "neurotypical". Recommended.

[BlooInBloo]

198. Thank you! I thought it was a pretty good read as well.

[cynatnite]

199. There is very little being done to help schools with these kids...

While this is based on the ignorance of the teacher's aid and there's no excuse for it, IMO, this sad story highlights a growing problem in our country. Some autistic kids are very agressive if not handled properly by someone who knows what they're doing there will be problems. My grandson can get this way and we have methods to deal with it. They do work for the most part.

Autistic kids can thrive in a normal school environment. There are so few who are trained to handle them and deal with these issues. Considering the rising rates of autism we should be doing better by now.

The other problem is a lack of adequate special needs schools. My daughter lived in a county where they offered nothing for her son and she moved just so he could go to one of these schools. It's their hope that he can join a regular school in the next two to three years, but if the schools can't get the needed support these children will fall through the cracks of a system already falling apart.

On so many levels...this is just tragic.

[NMMNG]

200. Utterly insane

It should be laughed out of court.

[mark414]

202. this is madness - my mother deals with kids like this every single day

when i was still living at home she'd get back from work sometimes with bumps and bruises, even cuts and scrapes and teeth marks...granted she's properly trained to take care of these kids

our society has lost its fucking mind...6 year olds are being accused for sexual harassment for schoolyard kisses, we're pumping them all full of drugs from big pharma and then dulling their (and our) minds and bodies with shitty processed food and too much technology

i praise the god i don't believe in that i'm not a kid growing up today