Oh boy, more gay bullshit!

[cboy4]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/nyregion/12group.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

This so-called therapy is right wing voodoo.

Not only might this person blow his brains out because of his overwhelming disappointment, this so-called "therapy" only perpetuates the myth that homosexuality is a choice and people can be "cured."

And that only fuels the fire of belief that people choose to be gay.

I just cringe when I read stories about this. Just cringe. :(

[Midlodemocrat]

1. I saw that this morning.

Very upsetting article. I hate that crap.

:hi:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. Why did he move to New York, fergodssake?

Not exactly a place where you're going to escape the temptation, Corey :eyes:

[crikkett]

5. Maybe he wants to work in theatre

(just kidding)
But seriously, why does anyone move to a city? Because their towns are too small.

[Solly Mack]

3. And when this results in suicide

the cruel, ignorant pieces of shit blame homosexuality and not their own language of hate that tells the GLBT community that they are somehow just not good enough or deserving enough - that they are "abomination"

Hate kills. Hate disguised as religion is still hate.

[meegbear]

4. Ted Haggard made it vogue again ...

"In the time it takes to quit smoking, you can quit the radical homosexual lifestyle".

Sometimes I think I should set up a 21 day clinic, have them sign a waiver blaming themselves when they fail, before they get their treatment.

[Cerridwen]

6. He'd do better if he received therapy for his

Mormonism. With all due respect to the truly, kind and caring members of the LDS church I've known over the years, this part of the church doctrine sucks, huge!

*note: yes, other religions carry this same prejudice but this article is about a Mormon.

[smoogatz]

20. Bingo.

Further proof that fundamentalist religious belief is a form of mass psychosis. How else do you explain the endless tail-chasing, panties-in-a-wad hysteria of fundies of every stripe?

[Cerridwen]

21. Actually, I have more of a problem with 'religious' doctrine

being used to bludgeon people than I do with religion itself. I attribute the minority who preach and scream 'fire and brimstone' to a mindset which is more acceptable of authoritarian rule rather than a mindset that is searching for spiritual growth. Religion in and of itself can be quite wonderful. Religion used as a tool for control by those who would con grandma our of her last dollar is a whole 'nother issue.

So, to answer your (rhetorical?) question: "How else do you explain the endless tail-chasing, panties-in-a-wad hysteria of fundies of every stripe?" A mob mentality of people who prefer authoritarian rules and easy black and white issues who use religion as an excuse to exert control over others.

[smoogatz]

26. Oh, I think it's much darker than that.

At least in the individual "believer." It's all about sexual guilt and hating your father and wanting to sleep with your mother--you know, like Freud said. I tend to make a distinction--as in my previous post--between religious experience and fundamentalist belief. The former can be good for people--if nothing else, it makes them feel better sometimes. A fine thing. Fundamentalism of all varieties really is a form of psychosis, though. I mean, if you think a man in the clouds is telling you what to do, doesn't that make you crazy by definition?

[Cerridwen]

27. Depends...

Is he in a plane when I 'hear' him? LOL Okay, bad joke.

I think we agree on this for the most part. I've written dozens of papers on this particular topic - none of which are available on line since they were written before the internets were such popular tubes for information *snork* - for which, I'm sure, many are grateful. :D

Most of what I've read and studied shows ways to use people's fears against them and slanting 'religious' doctrine to exacerbate those fears. So, yeah, there may frequently be some form of 'psychosis' involved if you consider psychosis to include fear induced symptoms. I'd also note that I don't think it's so much the fundamentalist permutations of religion as it is the fanatical nature of some people's beliefs. I think it's more about fanaticism, the intransigent, unwillingness to see beyond externally defined constraints.

[Puglover]

7. Gosh not to pick a scab but

do you think Corey Larson thought the Snickers commercial was all that funny? I don't.

[rebel with a cause]

22. Ok, the snickers comercial was just plain stupid!

People who should be insulted by it. Mechanics, Gays, Men, Humans, and anybody else you had to endure it for the time it took to run. I actually watched it on the web (don't like football) and that meant I clicked on it and then clicked it off. Enough said.

[Puglover]

38. Tell you what pal.

Do me a favor. Grow up gay. Grow up and when you feel your first sexual attraction to someone of the same gender and in a PANIC think to yourself, "Oh jesus fucking christ what is this about?" see how that feels.

Grow up praying to God every night that you "get over" this craziness. And deny your true self everyfucking day to everyone you know until finally at oh say age 26 you say to yourself enough is enough and finally have the courage to be honest and come out.

You do that for me and then get back to me. Until you do that and experience the merry hell of what socialtal pressure does to gays I would ask you to spare me your breezy little blow off.

Enough said.

[LostinVA]

40. Excellent post, Puglover!

If you haven't experienced it, then cut the sanctimonious garbage.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

46. If I could recommend a post, I would recommend this one!

:thumbsup:

:hug:

[Midlodemocrat]

48. .

:hug:

[donheld]

44. "I clicked on it and then clicked it off." just like I did until

I saw the other ads and did some research on mine own. That's when I saw the offense.

[Doondoo]

8. k&r

[JacksonWest]

9. The NYT headline is pure bullshit. He's not tormented by homosexuality.

He's tormented by a society where a large portion of people want to condemn him for a genetic proclivity that makes him attracted to the same sex.

I'm surprised at that headline. At least, I'm surprised to see it in the NYT.

It's amazing that this sort of therapy still goes on. It doesn't work. It's brainwashing masked as compassion, at best.

[SmokingJacket]

11. Yes, it's actually Mormonism that's tormenting him.

Homosexuality is just part of who he is.

[Edweird]

19. He didn't "choose" being gay any more than I "chose" being straight.

Fundies of every variety hate non-conformity. And their hate is always presented as "love", with a smile. If there's a hell, I'll see them there.

[Maven]

31. TY for noticing that

The framing is total bullshit X 3.

"Tormented" by homosexuality.

Finding "hope."

"Controversial" therapy.

The NYT should know better.

[soleft]

10. Tormented By Society is what the headline should read

[mahatmakanejeeves]

12. LDS +Gay

Years ago, when I was passing through Ogden, Utah, I read in a newsletter of interest to the gay community that two-thirds of adult gay males in Utah had performed a mission for LDS.

[marmar]

13. But the world, particularly the world he grew up in, tells him that who he really is....

is not right and not acceptable..... This is indeed very sad. And that's why it's so important to realize that so-called "gay issues" are everyone's issues. It might not affect me personally, but as the great-great-great (I think, maybe add another great or two to it) grandson of people brought to this country as slaves, ANY denial of someone's freedom to be who they are is an attack on my freedom.

[Coexist]

14. Here, watch this video!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x15985

[gratefultobelib]

15. Oh yes! Alan Shore hits another bullseye! Is that not a great program?!

[Coexist]

17. One of my absolute favorites.

I love Alan Shore's character.

[Neecy]

16. He has so many other options...

LDS or not, this guy is one of the reasons that the the Metropolitan Community Churches are so important.

I dated someone who came from a deeply religious family and she had some of the same conflicts as this guy - namely, the violent homophobia of so many mainstream churches. We went to MCC in San Francisco and they did so much to help her reconcile her religious beliefs with living an honest, open life. They do terrific work and it's so much better to bring BOTH sides of your life in harmony than to go through this kind of destructive "therapy" that won't change your orientation one bit.

And yeah, this NYT headline is disgusting and just wrong.

[dogday]

18. Can't he just go to rehab like everyone

else does? :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Skittles]

23. they're not tomented by homosexuality

they're tormented by religious wackjobs

[redqueen]

24. I'm so fed up with this false balance BS!

This guy has it exactly right!

“This is like creationism. You create the impression to the public as if there was a debate in the profession, which there is not.”

[treestar]

25. Could some people be genuinely confused?

I'm not saying all, just some. Each person is an individual. I would say let this guy handle things his way. Maybe at the end of the journey he won't feel wrong about being gay. He's got to come to that conclusion himself.

Besides, even if it were a choice, it's a choice a person has a right to make.

[Maven]

32. These people are not "confused"

They acknowledge their orientation, that's why they're trying to "treat" it.

There is nothing legitimate about these mindfuck con-job organizations in the slightest.

[treestar]

33. Ok bad choice of words

He doesn't sound confused to me, either.

I don't think a legit shrink would approach it that way, either. I can accept that he wants "out" but I don't think that's necessarily possible and he is better off coming to terms with it, but then people are infinitely variable. You have the people who get sex change operations, so in that realm, you start to think you don't always have to accept the way you are born, and there's a choice, too.

[JacksonWest]

35. I think it's very easy to be confused. And dangerous.

We live in a country where people mock homosexuals and the term itself is a pejorative in most high schools.

The confusion is wanting to be "normal" and coming to terms with who you are. It the same thing with girls who want to be too thin. I'm sure there is confusion and torment. I've seen teens attempt suicide over sexuality issues. And the blame-the torment-comes from the external surroundings. Trying to fit into a box that you were never meant to be in.

It's so fucking stupid-the attitude that the cause of this anguish is somehow the fault of the individual, not the external factors that are telling him or her to suffer, to feel ashamed.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

36. Sex changes and being "ex-gay" are NOT the same.

Also, sex change operations bring the body in line with their brain gender. It's really about accepting the way you were born and bringing your body in line with that.

[Az]

39. Science is showing that sexual preference is a gradient

Many people exist at one end of the scale or the other. But many exist somewhere in between. It is only society that places a burden on choosing one position over another. If a persons proclivities are open to either gender then it is society that lays the burden and stress upon them and not their biology.

There are aspects of attraction that are absolutely beyond our control or even awareness. We have recently discovered a set of nerve bundles associated with the olfactory system that seem to play a very large roll in sexual attraction. Not part of the olfactory system this bundle of nerves detects pheromones and triggers a sensation of attraction. This sense is bereft of any detection by our conscious mind. That is it is experienced as an inexplicable attraction to whoever is triggering this bundle of nerves.

We cannot control or decide who we are attracted to. But some people have wider ranges of taste. And combined with social pressures as to who or what they are supposed to be attracted to they can experience a great deal of stress and anxiety.

[deutsey]

28. Apparently, "blackness" was also once viewed as an illness

In Ronald Takaki's (sp?) "Iron Cages" I think he said Benjamin Rush believed black people were that way because of a sickness and needed to do hard labor in order to "cure" them.

It's been a while since I read this book, but I think that's what it said about Rush.

[progressoid]

29. That's backwards...

The logical solution to his conflict is to go into therapy to remove the Mormonism.

[varun]

30. A Directory of these reparative therapy QUACKS

should be publicized so that they are stripped of whatever credentials they have as mental health professionals.

[shadowknows69]

34. The "re-education camps" can't be too far behind

And they'll be happy to re-educate ya from any old problem you might have. Gayness, Druggieness, Liberalnes, humanness. The Good Stepford American will be all that's left someday and they'll change the name of the country to their favorite title of "Bestest country in the world!"

[Kurovski]

37. I can give a great massage that'll ease some of that torment.

But seriously, the "torment" comes from crackpot views on sex being internalized.

This shit is getting REAL old. Most of us have--or are beginning to--figure this out. LGBT and straight alike.

[Doctor_J]

41. When I saw the thread title, I wondered how they knew which bulls were gay

:shrug:

[donheld]

42. Thank god i never fell into that "cure" crap

:grr::grr:

[gollygee]

43. He needs therapy for the fact that he feels "tormented"

so he can be happy and get on with his life. :( Very sad.

[Az]

45. Its not the homosexuality that is tormenting him

Its the unreasonable social expectations fostered by fundamentalist religious intolerance. Its perfectly natural to be gay. What's unnatural is to hate people for being gay. That you have to learn.

[Katherine Brengle]

47. I just feel sorry for him... it sucks that he was taught to hate himself...

:(