10-Year-Old Girl Arrested For Brutal Attack In Target

[Bluebear]

What is happening? :(

====

(WBZ) DORCHESTER A 10-year-old girl has been arrested for a shocking and brutal attack at a Target department store in Dorchester.

Boston police say a gang of four young girls jumped a 22-year-old woman at the South Bay Target Sunday afternoon after the woman bumped into the 10-year-old in an aisle and refused to apologize.

Police spokesman officer Eddy Chrispin told WBZ the girls knocked the woman to the floor, hit her, ripped some of her hair out and took off her pants.

Chrispin said witnesses told police the 10-year-old kicked the woman repeatedly in the head and stomach as she was being stripped and punched by the other three girls.

The 10-year-old was the only person arrested.

http://wbztv.com/local/local_story_043083357.html

[redqueen]

1. What do you see in the news all the time?

How do you solve problems and conflicts? With violence, of course!

[Horse with no Name]

2. Where were her parents?

Good God.
Sad thing is, had the 22-year old attacked back, she would have been arrested for assault to a minor.

[devilgrrl]

6. The story claims she bumped into the 10 year old and wouldn't apologize.

What's with her attitude?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

17. That is true.

I have noticed lately that people bump into you and don't apologize. I've almost been run over by baskets and carts several times lately without apologies...and it was from the employees of the respective stores.
People lack manners more and more lately. However, that isn't a good enough reason to beat someone.

[devilgrrl]

24. I agree.

Bet that kid is treated like crap at home.

[KansDem]

41. This is true all over the place!

Rude, discourteous people are the norm these days. One of my pet peeves occurs when I'm looking at the shelves trying to decide on one brand or another, on one product or another, and someone passes in front of me (between me and the shelves) and doesn't say a thing! Also, people who walk up to you while your engaged in conversation and just butts in with a question without waiting for a pause in the conversation or at least excusing themselves.

Really irritates me, but I still wouldn't unload on them with a fury of fists.

[Mugu]

92. As a general rule I push my cart down the right side of the aisle.

So if I see a product that I might need on the left side of the aisle and I stop to look at it, I’m probably blocking the whole aisle (cart on right, me on left.) So while I’m comparing products and deciding what I want, another person approaches down the aisle. To be polite I step back behind my cart to allow them to pass in front of me (between the product that I’m looking at and me.) Almost all males ages 10 and up will acknowledge the gesture in some manner such as a nod or something spoken. Almost all females ages 10-50 will also acknowledge me, generally by speaking. But older women (65 and up) will almost never even acknowledge my presence let lone say anything pleasant. Many times they stop to check their list or maybe just to think. It’s just madding, I really think that they do it on purpose.

There was one old gal that did it to me three times in one day. After the first two times I was so irritated that I had to do something, but I couldn’t very well holler at her. Some I hustled over to the pharmacy section and got the biggest box of colored, ribbed condoms that I could find. When she came past for the third time and stopped in front of me, I was able to drop them in her cart. The expressions at the check out stand were priceless.

Regards, Mugu

[cali]

147. Charming. Not.

There's something particularly loathsome about your little story about picking on an elderly woman who got in your way. Just ugh.

[RubyDuby in GA]

42. If I bump into someone, I immediately apologize

If someone bumps into me and doesn't, I make sure I say this loud enough for everyone in the general vicinity to hear me: "Don't let me get in your way! I'm sure you're much more important than I am and you just forgot your manners today."

It's especially great when they turn around and look at you and roll their eyes. It gives me a chance to laugh in their faces.

Assholes.

[wicket]

46. That's an excellent response!

I'll have to remember that one, unfortunately I wwill be using it quite frequently :(

[shanti]

52. oh no...

i wouldn't say anything like that to someone who bumped me, but i would give them a dirty look. as you can see by the story, it doesn't take much to set the wrong someone off!

[Mike Daniels]

54. I wouldn't even give the person a glance

People seem to look for any reason nowadays to escalate an argument into a physical standoff.

I just keep continuing whatever it was I was doing when the person bumped into me and ignore it.

[Catchawave]

67. I apologize whether I'm the bumper or bumpee

That way I'm covered :evilgrin:

[iverglas]

155. you must have Canadian blood

http://indefual.snowbank.ca/canada/jokes/mb-cnd.html

You might be Canadian if ...

# Someone accidently stepped on your foot. You apologize.
# You stepped on someone's foot. You apologize, then apologize for making them apologize.

Pretty much all of us up here have apologized to a lampost at one time or other. Or a door, or a retail display ...

But seriously. Simultaneous apologies -- assuming the actual bumper does it right too -- are just a little pleasantry that lets people laugh with each other / at themselves for that common trait of humanity, klutziness.

[Catchawave]

161. Brooklyn Blood :) Thanks,

You made my day :hi:

[rebel with a cause]

158. You and me too.

If the person is especially annoying, I might say "I'm sorry, excuse you" in a very pleasant voice. That way I apologize and give them something to think about at the same time. I have had onlookers burst out laughing at this response and the worse I have received back is a "whatever", but most of the time nothing. Of course right now I live in small town USA and that is a lot different than when living in the city.

[hfojvt]

118. so somebody who accidentally bumps into somebody is an a$$hole

what about the person who deliberately attacks somebody else for not living up to their rules of etiquette? I would say the deliberate attack is more rude. Half of the time a collision is going to be the fault of both parties. So why should only one apologize?

[RubyDuby in GA]

153. I'm only speaking for myself when I am the one who isn't

paying attention and I accidently bump into someone.

I never said anyone who accidently bumps into someone else is an asshole - only if they don't apologize for it. And yes, it does make you an asshole if you have bad manners.

[AbbyR]

82. That's so strange....

I say "Excuse me" to my dog if I run into her. On second thought, maybe I'm strange - I was raised in the south.

[A Simple Game]

144. I do the same thing to our dog.

And if we are strange, it's not a regional thing, I'm a true blue Northern New Yorker.

Going to be real blue tonight, -1 right now, supposed to get to -20.

[Deep13]

21. I wouldn't have either.

The kid was in the way and should have moved.

[devilgrrl]

29. I take it that you just shove people out of your way indiscriminately...

because they should have moved.

Yeah, you're a real bad ass.

[Deep13]

36. You take it wrong.

I'm assuming it was an accident. Still, children have to learn consideration of others and that means getting out of other people's way, especially adults.

[joshcryer]

98. If you cannot get out of someones way, hogging isles, or just being obnoxious...

You're just as bad if not worse than a 'bumper.' Bumping is innocent most of the time. You ought to be able to avoid a bump if you're paying attention and being considerate of others.

Kids are moreliable to be bumped because they're not at eye level and move around a lot. And I mean a lot. They really don't have consideration for others most of the time. It takes a parent telling them where to go to keep them in line. These kids I have no doubt were running loose in the store.

[fidgeting wildly]

62. Exactly!

What is with people blaming the victim in this thread? I am constantly being bumped by free-range children. Should I apologize to them? I don't. I deal with it because I live in a large city and that's life, but I don't apologize to them. I'm an adult! When I was a child my mother taught me to be respectful get out of the way of adults. The children in the Target assault were quite obviously ill-mannered, violent children. We have only a fragment of the story, but if the children were the type that I see every day on the streets of Manhattan, I would not have apologized either. Does that mean I deserve a savage beating?

That said, I frequently apologize to people, even when they are the ones who bumped me. I just draw the line at rudeness, whether it's in a child or an adult.

[LostinVA]

69. Beat me to it -- good post

[Midlodemocrat]

79. Yup. And my 10yo is probably one of the worst offenders, but I

am always yelling at her to apologize.

[WI_DEM]

83. my feeling given what the ten year old did to the victim that the victim

may have bumped into the girl but perhaps the girl wasn't looking where she was going and maybe gave her a dirty look.

[WinkyDink]

30. Yes, it's so clear the young'uns there were big on good manners. GMAB.

[gollygee]

59. I apologize when I bump into someone

but if I was preoccupied or something and forgot, and some snotty 10-year-old tried to make me apologize to her, I sure as hell wouldn't. If someone doesn't think to apologize, you think "what an ass" and move on with your life. You don't beat and disrobe them.

[phylny]

95. Of course I wasn't there, but I have bumped into teens when they do not

move out of the way as we're both walking toward each other. Please understand, I'm not saying that I DEMAND they get out of my way, but there have been times where courtesy demands that you EACH make way for the OTHER person. In times where I have moved to the right as far as I could and moved my body to allow someone to pass, some kids keep coming at you and you bump arms, etc. because of their action (or inaction).

Maybe I'll be beaten up one day, but I won't say "sorry" when it's not my fault there was a collision.

[devilgrrl]

3. Which is upsetting? The lack of manners or the beating?

The story is really vague.

[Bluebear]

4. Hokay! nt

[devilgrrl]

What?

:shrug:

[Bluebear]

15. You are saying the bumping and the beating are vaguely equal??

[devilgrrl]

26. No.

I'm saying that the story is very vague. We know there was a beating, I'm not defending that. What I'd like to know is what started it all. Also, I would not be surprised if the 10 year old is treated similarly at home.

[Bluebear]

31. Ah, don't know. On TV it sounded like the girls beat the holy hell out of the adult.

It started apparently when the adult "bumped" the child and when pressed for an apology refused to tender one.

[Cobalt Violet]

162. She kicked her repeatedly in the head and stomach...

as she was being stripped and punched by the other three girls. One of those "girls" was 20 years old.



That's enough to kill someone.

[sakabatou]

5. O.O

WTF?

[The Straight Story]

7. That's just messed up - good thing her parents didn't spank her though

she might have learned to be violent :)

These youngin's nowadays seem to have a lot of pent up anger.

The conservatives would say it is because we are too liberal, no taliban...err prayer/religion in school, etc and so on.

But to me it is because they see the way to solve issues is how our govt does it - by force and death. War on drugs, send a team in with guns and dogs to drag out a person with medical MJ, want what saddam has, kill a few hundred thousand people and take it, after all stealing things by force will make people love you and give you flowers and parades.

[devilgrrl]

11. She's probably beaten at home.

Bet her parents are screamers.

[The Straight Story]

14. Well, it is better to be beaten at home than at the neighbors :) (nt)

[Deep13]

23. I doubt it. nt

[devilgrrl]

32. Yeah, she picked up that behavior on her own.

She was born that way. :sarcasm:

[Deep13]

37. Yup.

Discipline (not abuse) at home teaches boundries and acceptable behavior. People are not born polite. They are born tribal animals, us against them. There are plenty of examples of violence in society besides ones parents, if those examples are even needed for a person to act like an animal.

[LostinVA]

71. She could have been born that way -- sociopaths are "organic"

Maybe, maybe not.

In any case, I'd like to see more sympathy in this thread for the victim of a brutal assault.

[girl gone mad]

119. Usually kids who are..

physically abused at home are intimidated by adults.

[LostinVA]

124. That's actually a great point

[Bluebear]

13. I know at 10 I would not have been "shopping" with 3 other 10 year old punks

We played at home or in the neighborhood. Times change I guess.

[maxsolomon]

22. the public realm is destroyed

replaced by the retail commons - this is the social space of the advertising saturation era.

that must have been some bump.

[Horse with no Name]

27. We wouldn't either

And my kids wouldn't have either.
My daughter was furious at me when she was 15 because I wouldn't let her go with her friends to Deep Ellum...an alternative scene in Dallas. She was going with someone's parents...however, I felt that the judgement of THOSE parents were in question.

[Nicole]

120. Only one girl was 10

The others were 14,16 & 20.

From the link in the OP:
"Police are seeking criminal complaints against three other females -- ages 20, 16 and 14 -- believed to have taken part in the attack."

[not_a_robot]

109. There is also an obsession

People who are presented with the idea all of the time that the rest of the world is obligated to serve them tend to be arrogant and angry. Combined with constant instant gratification, demonization, and classism (in the US it seems to be based on product loyalty/image as much as anything else), and yah people will be short tempered and anti-social.

[seabeyond]

8. and these bystanders had no more power but to watch? sad. n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

58. That's What I Was Wondering

The number of events within this beating are pretty numerous. People just stood there and watched? What's up with that?
The Professor

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

73. Beat me to it, LM

[The Straight Story]

20. Well, those girls turned out that way because we forced em to play with barbies

and watch super models and bad role models on tv.

It is natural for boys to be evil, girls we have to teach it to ;)

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ComerPerro]

80. but its exactly right. And you would be one of the first to jump on the man-bashing bandwagon

and you fucking know it. Don't deny it.

[Horse with no Name]

81. Are you stoned?

I wouldn't jump on any "hating" bandwagon.
Prove it.

[LostinVA]

125. I agree -- I think that poster is out of line

[Bluebear]

34. I take it you don't care for the way discussions evolve here.

:eyes:

[patrice]

12. Group psychosis becoming increasingly common. Surprise. Surprise.

And THIS is the generation that is going to be in charge of our old age.

[Telly Savalas]

141. Don't worry. They'd have to get pretty creative to do a worse job of it

than the assholes running things now.

[Deep13]

16. That and many children's inflated sense of importance.

My observation is that middle class families are fostering narcissism in children by being indulgent and refusing to impose limits on behavior.

[Bluebear]

25. I have to agree.

Before anybody jumps on you, "everyone is important!!" yeah, yeah, but it is true. Youngsters have an inflated sense of self-importance and are certainly more self-absorbed than ever.

[gollygee]

44. Is Dorchester a middle class area?

why do you assume they are middle class kids? I thought Dorchester was a working class area but I could be wrong. Anyway, what socio-economic class the kids are is irrelevant in my opinion.

They kids were certainly narcissistic. But the violence goes beyond simple narcissism. I'd have to wonder if there was some kind of violence or other abuse in the home.

[seaglass]

47. There definitely must have been something going on at home,

this is not the behavior of spoiled 10 year olds. I've known my share of spoiled 10 year olds and not one of them would DARE to raise a hand to an adult.

[Deep13]

50. I assume nothing. I merely stated my observation.

I haven't been to Dorchester in a long time. I lived in the Worcester area when I was in MA and that was 15 years ago.

[nashville_brook]

55. from The Boston Indicators Project

http://www.tbf.org/indicators2004/economy/indicators.asp?id=2436




Household income varies considerably across Boston neighborhoods. Roxbury, parts of Dorchester, Mission Hill, Fenway, Chinatown and East Boston have a median income below the 2000 citywide median income of $39,629. Median income in parts of Jamaica Plain, West Roxbury, Back Bay, Beacon Hill and Downtown are among the highest in Boston.

[Gormy Cuss]

60. For those unfamiliar with Boston neighborhood designations, two BRA districts are Dorchester

On the map linked by nashville_brook, the Dorchester area as defined by the Boston Redevelopment Authority is the two districts on the lower right hand side in this clipped graphic --south Dorchester is directly opposite the map legend, north Dorchester just above it.

[not_a_robot]

111. Actually

Narcissists are sociopaths by their very nature. The exclusion of empathy is required for a narcissist to exist, and violence is natural for someone that does not experience empathy.

[Marrah_G]

148. Dorchester is a City of Immigrants

It has been for the entirety of its existance. The nationalities have changed over the years. Once it was a haven of Irish working class poor. Now I think it has a big Dominican population. Again, mostly working class.

My guess is the girl was proving how badass she was to the older ones...possibly gang members?

We have a huge problem in this country with parenting skills and resources for struggling parents. That is what it comes down to.

[Cobalt Violet]

154. No, working class, and underclass.

Depends on the neighborhood.

[MADem]

19. Insane, innit?

Susan Wornick on the TV just said that the kid kicked the living shit out of the woman--not in those words, but I guess it was a serious beating.

[Little Wing]

33. WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR?

It's Jack Bauer's fault

[Bluebear]

35. ......

[AndyA]

38. The story says the adult bumped into the child.

The adult should have said, "Excuse me," or "Oops, I didn't see you there," or "Sorry," or "Pardon me." No biggie, just common courtesy.

Of course, the response from the child is way over the top, but how can kids be expected to have good manners when adults don't have good manners either? I realize these kids must have had a chip on their shoulder, and their parents have done a lousy job of raising them, but sometimes the kind acts of a total stranger can have an impact on someone else's life. And perhaps an apology could have made a difference to these kids.

It's hard to know, but I'll bet they don't have a happy life at home. I blame the parents of the kids, because there's no way I would have ever considered such a thing when I was growing up. I knew better. Apparently these kids didn't.

[Bluebear]

39. Who knows, AndyA, maybe the adult did apologize.

And the petite gang said "I can't HEEEEAR you!" or it wasn't enough or sufficiently penitent. Maybe the adult only speaks Bulgarian, who knows? Juvenile delinquents.

[seabeyond]

43. or... maybe the girls were purposely blocking to cause a scene and there

was a reason for the adult to feel an apology wasnt necessary. maybe the whole intent was outrageous behavior and adult was merely the victim.... or maybe adult was an ass....

regardless... the behavior of ten yr old girls beyond being exused for any reason. and bystanders not stopping it immediatly leaves me puzzled, that adults are so afraid and powerless with this age.

[Mike Daniels]

57. Precisely, maybe the kids were impeding progress from the get go

I've been in locations where a group will just congest in a tight location making passage practically impossible. While some will part immediately upon a "Excuse me / Pardon me" others will either grudgingly move or just plain ignore you.

Whether that's the case here, who knows? But there are times were I can see someone not feeling obligated to say "excuse me".

[Goblinmonger]

105. I can't believe nobody stopped it either

I am a high school teacher and when I am at the store right after coming from work, I find myself automatically shotting the "teacher stare" at kids that are f'in around in the store. That usually takes care of it though they and I both kind of have a "what the heck, are we still in school" look on our faces. I would have done something to stop that fight.

[seabeyond]

112. i have a almost 12 and 9 yr old boys. they go at it (seldom) i grab one and throw

grab the other and throw in another direction and then..... we are ready to address the issue. but more than anything i cannot STAND to se the boys physically fighting. i have only needed to do this twice. but... i am confident i could have had all three off the woman and thrown in different directions... before then reasonably addressing the girls. and by then maybe other adults would wake up to help in the situation. just something inside of me... i cannot stand

and the eye thing, oh that is so funny. i too have been in store with misbehaving kids and i can give them the eye without a parent seeing,... lol lol and seems to do the trick. i dont imagine these girls would back down from an eye. maybe. maybe it is fear they saw and empowered them

[elehhhhna]

150. Hey Seabe! My gals don't swing at each other but when they're really

squabbling I ground them FROM each other. Works like a charm and they HATE it.

"Please, please let us play together, Mom!"

LOL weird but it does the trick.

[seabeyond]

152. i know. it is funny.

really as far as siblings go my get along really really well. that is because it is such a big deal to me as a parent, having my two brothers with issue, and my husband and his older brother with issue, it is something we talk about a lot in the house.

i will do the same. stay away from each other. cant be nice, stay away.... NNNNOOOOO, i luv my brother. nope, no playing. NOOOOOOOO

ah well. hey i have been looking for you and saving this little gift for you. havent seen you around. but.... special you are.

[girl gone mad]

121. Where is Rebecca De Mornay..

when we need her most?

[senseandsensibility]

137. Bingo

Thanks for the sanity!

[LostinVA]

74. Exactly, Bluebear

The lack of compassion for the assault victim is rather appalling.

[Bluebear]

108. Well, after all she didn't apologize.

:crazy:

[YOY]

106. Molja? Samo govori Bulgarski?!?!?! Nevuzmozhno!

Pochti vseki Bulgarski imigrant koito az znae dosta Angliski da kazva "I'm Sorry" ili "Excuse me"!

[Bluebear]

107. :bowing down:

I am impressed :rofl:

[YOY]

110. I got 6 others! Most of them equally obscure as Bulgarian!

;)

And I suck at spelling in all of them...allright maybe not Russian and English...

On Edit: Big Bulgarian 'Blagodarija!' (Thanks!)

[spoony]

85. I don't think

that not beating the pulp out of someone falls under the category of manners, so I'm not terribly inclined to think that if the adult had apologised the girls would have curtsied and said good day.

[LostinVA]

126. Agreed n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

40. It reminds me of something that happened to me recently.

It happened in the parking lot of a large "destination store" for suburbanites, but located in an area not far from some of the neighborhoods with serious gang activity. Three young teen girls were walking abreast down the sidewalk and making it impossible for those traveling in the opposite direction to get by without stepping off the sidewalk into the bushes. They were walking straight into people even when it meant shifting their positions. I didn't see any confrontations. At the time my instincts told me that these girls were itching for a fight -- it was very clear from their body language. My sheltered surburbanite friend thought they were just acting oddly.

[AndyA]

56. I was in the grocery store once, and two women were blocking the aisle

with their carts. Just standing there chatting, in no big hurry. One of them had been in the way on another aisle earlier, and I had to say, "Excuse me" to her twice to get her to move her cart out of the way.

At any rate, I took my time walking down the aisle, and as I approached them, one of them looked at me but made no effort to get out of the way. I walked right up to them, and stopped and stood there looking at them. Neither of them moved.

Finally, I said, "Excuse me" and they looked at me but didn't act like they were going to move. So, I said, "Someone is going to have to move so I can get by." They both looked at me and kept on talking, almost as if I weren't really there.

At this point, I had had it. I said, "You need to move your FAT ASSES out of the way!" And I was pretty loud. A manager across the main aisle turned to see what was going on, as did about 3 other customers. The women both looked at me as if they were horrified at what I'd said. I said, "Yes, the two of you are blocking the aisle. What's the problem?" At which point they mumbled something and moved aside.

When I got to the end of the aisle, the manager asked me what the problem was. I told him that those two women were blocking the aisle, and refused to move even after being asked nicely repeatedly. To which a nearby customer, a lady who appeared to be in her late 60s, came up and said she was glad I said something to them, they'd been in her way the whole time as well.

This was a long time ago, and I was much younger then. I'm not sure if I would have acted the same way today or not. People just have no manners these days. It's really pathetic that something as simple as manners and common courtesy has gone the way of black and white television.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. I'd do that now in that situation .

Well something similar at least in the situation that you described. However, I have lived in cities for too long to ignore that there is a look that says "I'm waiting to go postal" and I don't confront people who are looking to whale someone because quite frankly, I'm not very schooled in physical fights.

[FlaGranny]

63. Similar things happen to me every week, but

I don't tell them to move their fat asses, although I certainly feel like it. A few times I have asked someone nicely, "Pardon me, may I get through?" The reaction is to look at you like you're from outer space. A lot of people seem to be in their own little world and everyone else is an intruder to them. My last shopping trip resulted in numerous people turning their shopping carts crossways and blocking everyone else from passing. They'll look right at you and don't react. ????? Strange behavior if you ask me. Fewer and fewer people have any manners at all any more. I have mostly given up and when I see the blockage, I just turn around and go the other way and come at whatever I want from the opposite side. It gives me a lot of extra exercise in the supermarket.

[LizW]

66. I see this, too, FlaGranny

There's some sort of freaky aggression going on in our society. I live in the south where people pride themselves on being polite, but I get bumped and jostled all the time. People seem to have forgotten the basic traditional rules of co-existing in the commons.

My pet peeve is when someone goes out a door and lets it swing shut behind them without even looking to see if someone is coming out after them.

[AndyA]

76. I'm the type who's happy to help someone get something off a top shelf,

and I live in an area known for polite people and courtesy to strangers. It's not unusual to have people smile at you and say hello as you pass them on the sidewalk.

I just don't understand people who are so oblivious to what's going on around them that they don't realize they are holding up everyone else.

[ellie]

101. That happens

to me too. When I am with my husband and someone's cart is blocking the way and it is unattended. He will move it unceremoniously out of the way.

[rebel with a cause]

160. It happens to me every time I go out which is

about every week or two. I have to be in one of those electric shopping carts and cannot squeeze past these people if I wanted to. Several times I have had families of four or five people take up the whole aisle, stop every few feet for a discussion, refuse to move to one side to allow anyone to pass them, and when asked just give you a quick glance and ignore your request. I cannot always turn around in the aisles because they are too narrow, so I am held hostage by them. I, who has a problem with feeling trapped, will usually become so upset by all this that I begin to panic and have to find some way to get to another part of the store or leave it altogether. I am amazed that these parents are so inconsiderate and are teaching their children to treat others in this manner.

I have to add this, and this is not to you FlaGranny. So far in this thread we have had the middle class and Dominicans named as the source of this young girl and her behavior, while according to the original article neither is sited. In the past I worked in child welfare and I have live among several different different cultures, and I will tell you that this to name any one group as being the only one that has children who are exhibiting these behaviors is way out of line. I have seen wealthy, middle class, working class and poor children who showed respect and those who showed no respect. I have had children, girls especially, from most of the ethnic groups who either showed respect or no respect to others. And as for the manners between adults and children, I believe they should be equal. Adults should show children how to be mannerly by being respectful to them and expecting it in return. I taught my children to respect others, but I also taught them that they should expect that same respect. Respect is a two way street and you cannot expect to get it if you do not give it.

[CrispyQ]

128. And I think in many cases it's not simple ignorance of their surroundings,

they are very aware that others want by & are deliberately rude either to just be rude or to incite an incident.

I can barely stand to go out & about anymore. By the time I get home I understand how some people go postal.

[AbbyR]

89. Gotta be careful

I was at a small town festival last year when three kids, I'd guess ranging in age from 7-10, came up to me and asked for money for the rides. I looked at them as if they had lost their minds and said, "I don't think so. Don't have any money."

The next thing I knew, the grandma of one of them was over asking my why I was so disrespectful of her kids, and when I told her I wasn't, Mama comes up and starts with the same line. I didn't say anything, but just walked over and sat down by a cop I know, and they finally left.

They then went over to my boss (I was a photographer for the local newspaper) and told HIM I was rude to her kids.

Amazing.

[maxsolomon]

114. gypsies!

that sounds like europe!

[bleedingheart]

136. I was punched in the chest by young women who were doing just that

walking down the streets of Oakland in Pittsburgh while I was attending Pitt.

Three young women...walking directly towards me and my male companion and I couldn't really move out of their way...unless I could pass through brick...

So the young woman in the middle just punches me in the stomach...and while I am still reeling from the shock of that...she starts screaming..."wanna piece of me...wanna fight"

I kept moving with my friend and notified a police officer.

I had a coworker who had a serious inferiority complex...she was in a restaurant with a group of us and we were waiting for a seat. She would not move out of the aisle. It was obvious that she was just being a nuisance. I finally said to her very nicely..."I think these folks want to get out of the restaurant."...it made her look like the ass she was being.

[Gormy Cuss]

145. That's exactly what I thought she had in mind.

As I wrote, I have too much city living experience not to pick up the cues. There's a look. At least we had room to go around her. I'm not interested in street fighting and so far I've avoided it.

[napi21]

45. I believe there's far too little info in that story to judge what really

happened. On the surface, it sounds like everyone involved was WRONG!

I'll wait to hear a lot more info before I make any judgement.

[trumad]

65. Such as...were the girls looking for a fight hence the bump?

It could have easily been the girl bumping into the 22 year old....

[SoCalDem]

75. Yep.. I'm getting a whiff of fish ...

22 yr old wandering through the aisles when 4 rough-housing girls suddenly appear ..in her way.. she bumps one... for all we know they may have run into her..:eyes:

perhaps she said "oops" or "sorry", but not in an appropriately apologetic way.

There are many young kids who wander stores sans parents these days, and they DO get into mischief.

Perhaps these kids were looking for some trouble and set the whole thing in motion so they could find it.


The person run into was not a toddler or an old person, and it was probably not done intentionally, so the response by the girls sounds extreme..

but I agree.. there's more here than what the story is saying..

[nonconformist]

117. I don't think there is any excuse that can justify beating the shit out of someone

:shrug:

[Jim Warren]

48. HELLO.........

people, fyi there has been a rash of young girl group beatings going on in Dorchester for some time now, this is my old hood.

A little while ago an 8 yo boy was badly beaten, broken ribs and concussion, when his older teen sister intervened she was stabbed.

[mzmolly]

49. Goodness.

Unbelievable.

[sniffa]

51. yep, that's boston for ya

nothing but animaLs Living there. :yoiks:

[Taverner]

140. Was this attack in South Boston?

[nashville_brook]

53. Lord of the Flies -- failing economy, 2-earner families, twilight of unions

Kids are basically sociopaths without parenting.

Remember the bullies in grade school? They came in two flavors: the rich kids whose parents were too self-involved to parent; and the poor kids whose parents were too busy working to parent. In my schools the rich kids were the more aggressive group -- but that's just my experience.

I believe we hear more of these stories because kids are abandoned by parents who have to work constantly to get by. Without parenting, kids are at-risk of coming under the tuteledge of other abandoned kids. It doesn't mean that ALL kids of working parents become little criminals -- many of us actually "parented" our parents. But the risk is greater.

On the one hand, I bring this up with a tinge of guilt because I don't mean to paint working families with this broad brush. On the other hand, this is something we know to be true, otherwise we wouldn't bother with school and supervision. We fear that our children will fall into the wrong crowd thru flimsy parenting -- that's why we obsess on our parenting skills. This critique is aimed at the failing economy that has balenced itself on the backs of families. We need the option of single-earner families -- the LUXURY of time to parent -- for the health of society as a whole.

I think a rising tide of parenting will float all "boats," decreasing the number of sociopathic kids and increasing the number of well-parented kids who can influence their peers. I know this sounds like a "conservative" argument -- but I think there's truth in the conceit that kids haven't ALWAYS been like this. I think we are manufacturing them.

[The2ndWheel]

70. Home economics, sustainability and the "mommy wars"

http://www.energybulletin.net/25951.html

"the LUXURY of time to parent"

If anything, time has always been a burden.

[nashville_brook]

96. "how much power we should give to the public economy" -- RIGHT ON!

this is totally where i'm coming from. i've never felt less dignified than being an employee, a corporate underling, and an economic slave outside of my marriage. what is LIFE, if not the life we make with our families? where does life begin? at 5pm, quitting time?? on Saturday morning? in between the exhaustion of work and the exhaustion of home?

i think these episodes of children acting out are a reminder of how our lives are being stolen from us.

my point isn't about what women should do regarding work and home -- it's about the public economy, and this essay makes that point way better than i'm doing :)

Wendell Berry:

..."I do not believe that there is anything bettter to do than to make one's marriage and household, whether one is a man or a woman. I do not believe that 'employment outside the home' is as valuable or important or satisfying as employment at home, for either men or women.

...why we should consider this general working away from home to be a desirable state of things, either for people or for marriage, for our society or for our country.

...But for the sake of argument, let us supposed that whatever work my wife does, as a member of our marriage and household, she does both as a full economic partner and as her own boss, and let us supposed that the economy we have is adequate to our needs. Why, granting that supposition, should anyone assume that my wife would increase her freedom or dignity or satisfaction by becoming the employee of a boss, who would be in turn also a corporate underling and in no sense a partner?

[gollygee]

159. Wow that's a great article

I wish there was a gentle way to get my mother-in-law to read it. LOL

[Megahurtz]

64. We are living in Violent Times.

:(

[elehhhhna]

151. We ar living in a very violent country.

For a "civilized" nation, that is.

[AlCzervik]

68. i don't want to sound all squishy here but that is one angry child, something

is going there---not excusing it all but she needs some help.

[Madspirit]

72. Kids

What these kids did to this woman is horrible, regardless of whether or not she said, "Excuse me."

On the other hand, I totally agree with the posters who claim this child is probably abused. Even if it's neglect. Remember, "benign neglect" is an oxymoron. Neglect is not benign, particularly when speaking of children. This kid has been exposed to more violence than JUST on the television. She may be a victim or she may just be exposed to her parent's violence toward each other. ...but I would bet anything, her home-life is not good.
Lee

[Shakespeare]

77. There seems to be a rash of attacks like this lately, with a kind of pack mentality

Here in SoCal, we had the vicious beating of three girls on Halloween night by a group of kids who, by all evidence I read, primarily came from solid homes and were considered to be "good kids." I know there've been some other examples of this kind of "pack" attack in recent months, too--in fact, I'm pretty sure they were posted here.

I don't know if it's a matter of parents not being involved enough (or as involved as they think they are), or too much violence in society that kids are desensitized to it, but whatever it is, it's troubling.

I'm stunned at some of the posts here wanting to blame the victim--we don't know for sure that she wasn't the bumpee, and even if she was, nothnig justifies the brutual attack she suffered.

[spoony]

87. Didn't it used to

be called "wilding" a few years ago? I remember it happening in central park in NY, and in Toronto.

[Elidor]

78. That 10-year-old is gonna have massive street cred on the playground

"This is MY hood, biznatch!"

I don't understand why the other little droogies weren't arrested.

[joshcryer]

84. WTF? I apologize if someone bumps in to *me!*

What is wrong with the comments here? A 10 year old is going to be bumped in to. They're careless, they don't watch where they're going, they run around and are not exactly at eye level.

I bump in to kids all the time in the store when it's super busy (around shopping season). Kids normally are ambivilant about it. They know that they have to navigate the crowds better, and they know that they're more easily bumped into by adults.

If I believed in spanking I'd say that 10 year old deserves a good whipping.

[WI_DEM]

86. I agree, my feeling is that the ten year old may have caused the bump

I doubt she was an innocent victim--given the violence of how she reacted.

[bluedog]

88. 10 yrs old ..how big....were these "girls"?

lesson 1.....always be alert......especially when "they" form a group...one wouldn't do anything alone...they have to have the gang with them......

when shopping always put some kind of glass bottle in your cart....pickle jar...wine bottle..or glass dishes........these may come in handy some day..........

as for blocking the aisles as one poster stated.....read the lable on one of your glass products......oops...it dropped.....nothing will make a person move than spilled pickle juice or wine ......

Seems extreme?.....we live in different times......than we did years ago......

as for the "child"....when there was three...grab something off the shelf....pull the shelf over if you have to...you may get hurt......but so will they.......and it'll draw a crowd............

[pampango]

90. Here's an update from the Boston Herald.

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=182452&srvc=home

"Witnesses told police the gang of girls knocked the 22-year-old victim to the floor “where she was being hit, her hair was being ripped out, and her pants were taken off,” by her attackers, said BPD spokesman Officer Eddy Chrispin."

The 10 year old was the only one arrested on the scene, but the article states that criminal complaints against the others.

" Police and politicians are increasingly concerned about the startling violence among young girls. Last year, the Herald reported that Mayor Thomas M. Menino created a task force to deal with girl gangs after many young females were involved in a rash of knife attacks.
In 2006, at least three teenage girls were maimed for life after they were attacked by female rivals and viciously slashed across the face.
In March 2006, an 8-year-old boy was stomped by a group of girls in Dorchester in an attack that left him unconscious with four broken ribs. Weeks later, his older sister, 16-year-old Shelly Herring, was stabbed in the stomach while defending her brother.
Herring’s wound required a seven-hour surgery to repair her torn bladder, leaving her with 27-staples stitching her stomach together. "

Living in a small town and having been out of school for a long long time I didn't realize that girl gangs were a problem in some places.

[HughBeaumont]

91. Something tells me these children would have given the beatdown, apology or not.

Yeah, 3 on 1, that's brave and heroic. I'd be interested to see security footage of this.

[hyphenate]

93. In this particular case

I would certainly bring the parents of the girl into the picture and wonder how much discipline she receives at home. Most likely, she is allowed to get away with quite a bit when she feels free enough to beat the shit out of someone in a public place.

I doubt if many, like myself, watch many of the Maury Povich episodes, or Jerry Springer, or whatever, because these shows show this kind of behavior on a routine basis. After a couple of them, I turned them off again, because I grew quite disgusted with the parents of such "children." They are no more children than a 30 year old, except chronologically--their attitudes and reactions mirror those of adults, and they don't have anything to redeem themselves ultimately. They are the future dregs of society, with no one strong enough in their lives to teach them right from wrong, good from bad, or consideration for others. It's very sad to see that, but it exists, and like a lot of other things, it permeates an entire class that sees nothing but crime and poverty to work off.

I'm no social worker, but I remember we grew up with some sense of moral values. Politeness was something we gained naturally, and in any household where there there is a sense of values and a strong adult, manners should come easily as well. It's only when a parent allows a child free reign, without any discipline at all, that the child will overpower any adult figure in intent and getting their own way. It's not exactly "child abuse" but a lack of discipline, combined with childish immaturity, can result in a society where the child gets into trouble because they won't listen to any adult, and feels capable of doing exactly what they want to do.

Parents need to retain some control over unruly children, because the children have no real knowledge of the larger world that surrounds them, and if they believe they are somehow in charge, they remain that way into adulthood. I find it in a lot of urban areas, where parents go into a store and rampage throughout, while the parent ignores them completely oblivious to the mayhem they are creating.

In this particular case, I would make the child pay dearly for her actions. You don't go around beating the shit out of an adult without paying the consequences. The child should be taken from the parents (obviously the child doesn't have the kind of parents that can enforce rules around the house), placed in one of those foster families for difficult children, and if such is not available, placed in juvenile hall, prosecuted as an adult, and shown that what she did is reprehensible. If a 10 year old can get away with such actions, I would hate to see her at 15 or 20.

Perhaps I go too far in the opposite direction, but when I was growing up, we were taught right from wrong, and I think many parents today don't even care enough about their children to teach them the basics.

[Dorian Gray]

94. Wow...

If someone bumps into me and doesn't apologize, I just very loudly say "I'm sorry!" in the hopes that it will shame them into apologizing the next time. Being in NYC, I have to do that a lot! :)

[joshcryer]

97. I apologize almost always... bumping is often mutual.

If you can see someone you can avoid a bump, so bumps are often the result of people not seeing each other.

Of course, there are instances of people trying to get to a certain area and they bump in to you to get you out of their way, but I find that this is actually rarer than people think. They just remember the 'mean' instances more. In a very crowded shopping spree bumping is quite common. And a lot of times there's not even a need for an apology since the bumps are so light/irrelevant they are unnoticed.

[Dorian Gray]

146. I always step out of the way,

hold doors open for other people, apologize if I am at fault for a bump. I'm an overly apologetic person, much to the chagrin of people who get annoyed by it. So, even if I am rudely bumped into (and there are instances where it's rude), I will say "I'm sorry!" as pleasantly as I can. If I don't get the same consideration or recognition for my words, I do get annoyed.

I think, as has been speculated earlier in this thread, that many people have not learned manners. Overall, I try to be polite, and it rubs me the wrong way when others are not polite. I would never HURT someone though. I may get annoyed, but it's a passing moment that's forgotten in about 20 seconds. :)

(My other pet peeve is when you hold the door open for someone and they don't say thank you or even look at you and smile. Completely ignoring someone who does something nice for you is absolutely horrible! None of these things, however, deserves a "beat down" like the woman in this article got!)

[treestar]

139. I don't see the value in taking the time to "shame" other people,

especially in NYC.

Some people have quiet voices, too. I've said "thank you" or "sorry" without being heard and gotten some "shaming." It only pissed me off. Sometimes you have something on your mind, too. You might not notice. Why is this that important?

It amazes me that so many more on the thread are concerned with whether she apologized than over the fact of being beaten up!

:shrug:

[Dorian Gray]

149. Oh, I'm not more concerned with the apology

than the beat down. I think the second was horrible. Not to mention a completely irrational way to deal with rudeness. I in no way condone that activity, and I actually think that it's a good thing that ten year olds who behave that way were arrested.

As I stated in another response, it drives me crazy when people are rude. Whether it is to me or to someone else. It's a pet peeve, and it's something that I try not to be in real life. I'm overly polite, as it's what I've been taught. And, since I've lived in NYC, I've realized that most people out there didn't have the same upbringing (in terms of politeness) that I did. That's okay. But, if I hold the door open for someone, I expect a smile or a thank you. If not, then I will say, "You're Welcome!" in a sing song voice. I know... I shouldn't expect anything in return. But, it's my pet peeve.

Going into Target on Sunday (there is one around me in Brooklyn), I was bumped into three times. Each time, I said "Excuse me" or "Sorry." Not one time did any of the bumpers look in my direction or say that they were sorry. It just drives me crazy. I can't help it. We all have things that drive us crazy. People being rude is mine! :)

[walldude]

99. Whether the lady apologized is besides the point

This is overreacting. That said, I don't know too many 10 year olds that could take me. I have 3 sons 12,10 and 8 and we play-wrestle all the time. I'm pretty confident if a a few 10 year-olds attacked me I could defend myself. This story is just plain weird.

[joshcryer]

100. It's likely the woman didn't want to hurt them...

...what if she'd thrown them to the ground or thrown them off of her? She'd be in jail right now.

[walldude]

102. Well the story called it a "shocking and brutal attack"

seems to me if it was that bad a little self defense would have been in order..

[Nicole]

122. Only one was 10 though n/t

[nashville_brook]

103. why are the children we profess to cherish becoming less than likable and sometimes less than human?

hint: It's the economy that we love, not our children.

http://www.designshare.com/Research/Orr/Loving_Children.htm

Loving Children: A Design Problem
By David Orr
Professor and Chair of the Environmental Studies Program at Oberlin College
Author of Earth in Mind, Ecological Literacy, and more than 90 articles

...

We claim to love our children, and I believe that most of us do. But we have, sheep like, acquiesced in the design of a society that dilutes the expression of genuine love. The result is a growing mistrust of our children that easily turns to fear and dislike. In a recent survey, for example, only one-third of adults believed that today's young people "will eventually make this country a better place" (Applebome, 1997). Instead, we find them "rude" and "irresponsible." And often they are. We find them overly materialistic and unconcerned about politics, values, and improving society. And many are too materialistic and detached from large issues (Bronner, 1998). Not infrequently they are verbally and physically violent, fully adapted to a society that is saturated with drugs and violence. A few kill and rape other children. Why are the very children that we profess to cherish becoming less than likable and sometimes less than human?

Some will argue that nothing of the sort is happening and that every generation believes that its children are going to Hell. Eventually, however, things work out. Such views are, I think, fatuous because they ignore the sharp divide imposed between the hyper-consumerism of the post-modern world and the needs of children for extended nurturing, mentoring, and imagining. It's the economy that we love, not our children. The symptoms are all around us. We spend 40% less time with our children than we did in 1965. We spend, on average, 6 hours per week shopping, but only 40 minutes playing with our children (Suzuki, 23). It can no longer be taken for granted that this civilization can pass on its highest values to enough of its children to survive. Without intending to do so, we have created a society that cannot love its children, indeed one in which the expression of real love is increasingly difficult.

"No society that loved its children would create places like the typical suburb or shopping mall."

No society that loved children would consign nearly one in five to poverty (New York Times, August 12, 2000). No society that loved its children would put them in front of television for 4 hours each day. No society that loved its children would lace their food, air, water, and soil with thousands of chemicals whose total effect cannot be known. No society that loved its children would build so many prisons and so few parks and schools. No society that loved its children would teach them to recognize over 1000 corporate logos but fewer than a dozen plants and animals native to their home places. No society that loved its children would divorce them so completely from contact with soils, forests, streams, and wildlife. No society that loved its children would create places like the typical suburb or shopping mall. No society that loved its children would casually destroy real neighborhoods and communities in order to build even more highways. No society that loved its children would build so many glitzy sports stadiums while its public schools fall apart. No society that loved its children would build more shopping malls than high schools (Suzuki, 23). No society that loved its children would pave over 1,000,000 acres each year for even more shopping malls and parking lots. No society that loved its children would knowingly run even a small risk of future climatic disaster. No society that loved its children would use the practice of discounting in order to ignore its future problems. No society that loved its children would leave behind a legacy of ugliness and biotic impoverishment.

Of course we do all of these things in the belief that they are the necessary price of creating a better world for children. But at some level I believe that our children understand that such arguments are phony. I think this awareness explains what often appears to be their unfocused anger. Our children often mirror the larger incivility and rudeness that we inflict on them. They mirror the larger self-indulgence of a society organized around machines, instant gratification, and excessive individualism. They know that mastery of, say, Shakespeare counts for considerably less in this society than making it big in sports or business or drug-dealing, devil take the hindmost. They understand intuitively that the real curriculum is not what's taught in schools, but what's written on the face of the land. It is remarkable, in fact, that they are not angrier.

What would it mean to make a society that did in fact love all of its children? This is, properly understood, a design problem that calibrates what we intend as parents with how we earn our living, conduct our daily lives, build homes, design communities, manage landscapes, and provision ourselves with food, energy, and materials. I would go so far as to say that the well-being of children in the fullest sense of the word, not gross national product, is the best indicator of the health of our civilization. And I believe that it is the ultimate standard for ecological design. How do we design a civilization for children?

[Karenina]

115. Kick for THIS post!

:yourock:

[nashville_brook]

130. thanky -- it's a "pet" issue of mine (family values)

whenever i see stories like this i think about how (as a society) our actions don't match the lip-service we give to "family values." we do almost nothing for kids and yet "everything we do" is supposedly "for the children."

[Madspirit]

104. Bump

It doesn't matter whether the grown-up said "excuse me" or not, the beating is criminal and shows very disturbed behavior. I would look into the home-life of the kid. They will and I would put money on it, find abuse.

A Bandido, (violent biker gang), once bumped into me. THEY bumped into me. I said, "Excuse me". They said, "Don't let it happen again." Whew. <g>
Lee

[MrSlayer]

113. Disgusting and cowardly.

This is the type of thing you have to deal with now. Wolf packs and gang up mentality. No one can fight one on one anymore. The lack of honor and decency in our society is more prevalent than ever.

[RedEarth]

116. That's terrible.... wasn't there another girl in Boston beat senseless by a group

of girls a few months ago. Seems like I remember seeing it on the news not that long ago.

[Johnny Appleseed]

123. how in the hell does a 10 year old beat up a 22 year old?

being she was the only one arrested, one can only assume she did the pummeling. If a little brat tried doing that me I'd cuff her upside and send her on her way.

[Nicole]

133. When a 20, 16 and 14 year old are punching and stripping her at the same time.

That's the rest of the story in the above linked article.

[PassingFair]

134. I think I've seen this one....

[Nicole]

127. The story is misleading

if you don't read the whole article.

From the OP:
"Boston police say a gang of four young girls jumped a 22-year-old woman at the South Bay Target Sunday afternoon after the woman bumped into the 10-year-old in an aisle and refused to apologize."

From the link in the OP:

"Police are seeking criminal complaints against three other females -- ages 20, 16 and 14 -- believed to have taken part in the attack."

I wouldn't call the 20 year old a young girl, the victim was only 2 years older. Also 16 & 14 is a lot older than 10 if you take size & maturity level into account.

I have no idea how big the older 3 girls were compared to the 22 year old woman. I know many teens that are bigger than I am.

This was a brutal attack by those girls. She was beaten & stripped. Bumping doesn't even come close in comparison.

[Bluebear]

129. Article was updated at 6:30pm

[Nicole]

132. Yes but

it still reads the same.

The second sentence talks of four young girls. You have to scroll down to see the actual ages.

[LostinVA]

131. Agreed -- this was a violent criminal assault

I don't care if the victim said, "Get the fuck out of my way, bitches." NOTHING excuses this type of behavior. It's criminal and, quite frankly, carries more than a hint of sociopathic behavior.

[LeftishBrit]

135. Wow

When I first saw the story, I did wonder how a 10-year-old could beat up a 22-year-old; but it seems that there were 4 people involved, and the others were all much older than 10.

That's awful. Even if the victim had been impolite she doesn't deserve to be violently beaten!!!

Over the years, people have been getting more and more violent when others intrude on their public 'territory': road rage, 'trolley rage' in shops, etc. I don't know how much is due to society accepting violence more, and how much is due to the fact that we are getting shorter of both space and time, and, like other animals, become more violent in overcrowded conditions.

[bluedog]

138. If the 22 yr old had a conceled gun

she could have fired at these poeple if......she thought her life was in danger...

yep this is the law in Fl...........

The Florida measure says any person "has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm."

[piedmont]

156. Well, if she did shoot them I wouldn't have any sypathy for them.

They were kicking her while she was down-- that is deadly force. If I had the option of shooting someone or allowing them to kick me as hard and long as they wanted to, I know what I would do.

[iverglas]

164. no need to imagine

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=129988

A 25-year-old man who was fatally shot while attacking a stranger Saturday at Westlake Plaza had previously served time in prison for setting fire to a day-care center his mother operated out of her Phinney Ridge home.

...witnesses told police, a man in his 20s apparently attacked the 52-year-old man, punching and kicking him until he fell to the sidewalk. The older man pulled out a .357-caliber Ruger revolver and fired one round, striking the man in the abdomen.

The older man "was not winning the fight" — the other man "just starts attacking him, he's on the ground and a shot is fired," Brown said, describing witnesses' accounts.

The 52-year-old had a concealed-weapons license and was in legal possession of the handgun, Brown said.

The "stand your ground" bit doesn't really apply in either of these cases, since it seems that once the assault started the person being assaulted didn't really have the option of withdrawing. (But indeed, had either one of them still been upright and had the option of running away, or hiding behind something -- or handing over their wallet -- there's no civilized moral code in the world that wouldn't demand that they do just that.)

But it's interesting to note that even being attacked by four healthy young individuals didn't result in the victim's death, in this case, or, from what I can tell, serious disability. So it would seem to be the kind of force allowed in self-defence, rather than the circumstances in which it is allowed, that is problematic in the case of guns. Death becomes the sentence for just about anything once it's okay to pull out a gun and shoot someone committing an assault. In tihs case, no one died, and that's generally considered to be a good outcome, relatively speaking.

[ncteechur]

142. Apology or not--I would have kicked that 10 year old's ASS.

She is a child and I'm an adult -- I would have opened a can of whoop-ass on her if she had assaulted me. 10 years old or not.

[Cobalt Violet]

163. You better bring bail money next time you go to target then.

You would end up in jail if you did.

[CrispyQ]

143. I remember several years ago in a grocery store,

I saw a young woman (20's?) & a boy (8 or so). I have no idea what their relationship was, but they were in the store together. The boy was very angry about something & she was trying to calm him down. He turned toward her suddenly & kicked her really hard in the shin. Everyone who saw it was stunned! She winced, but she didn't do or say a thing. What was really scary is after he kicked her he was more calm. I think everyone who saw it feared what type of man that boy might become.

I've always been a little mouthy to rude people, but holy shit, it's gotten where you don't dare challenge or confront anyone anymore. We are such a sick & fearful society. I feel so fortunate to have lived so much of my life during the best part of America - a lovely time when we still had manners! Some days the culture shock of what we've become saps me of all positive feelings. I feel assaulted by it. It wears down all of us. It diminishes us.

This story is so sad on so many levels.

[-..__...]

157. An apology probably wouldn't have made any difference in this situation.

It's the current inner city/gang life style mindset at work here where any perceived slight is taken as a sign of disrespect and retaliation is called for... even by 10 year olds. The situation is worsened when friends or acquaintances are present as in "are you gonna let them get away with that". It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the 10 year olds accomplices provoked the attack by goading the girl
into assaulting the victim.