What to think of Mike Gravel?

[AX10]

How progressive or liberal is he?

Please discuss.

[porphyrian]

1. I think most people don't, and the status quo wants to keep it that way. - n/t

[skipos]

11. The status quo doesn't spend any time thinking about him one way or another. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. I'm thinking of him as a possible write-in.

[jpgray]

3. He's good on foreign policy, bad on economic policy, okay on social policy

His opposition to Iran hostilities and his "Fair Tax" (read: regressive tax) are two of the more important aspects of his platform to me.

[AX10]

4. What does he think about social security and healthcare?

[jpgray]

10. Single payer healthcare support is great. Investing with the social security fund, not as great

He would deny politicians their habit of dipping into the trust, though. Profits on the investments made with the Social Security trust would somehow be individualized by contribution and distributed to heirs of recipients. Don't ask me how that would work, exactly.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. I think he's about 11.62983 on the progressive/liberal conferred measurement scale.(cms)

But I'm just guessing. :shrug:

MKJ

[FormerDittoHead]

6. No way. Did good things 30 YEARS ago, but doesn't cut it now. Just about the worst Dem running.

FairTax? Are you kidding me? Too much to go into detail AGAIN. Anyone supporting the "FairTax" doesn't understand economics and/or taxes.

Healthcare "plan" of 4-5 majors put in some half-ass pool is ridiculous.

National referendums? So, we turn over major decisions to the same people who watch Jerry Springer?

No support for gay rights at all.

The ONLY two things he's got going is pulling out of Iraq and outlawing touchscreen / no-audit trail elections.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. He supports gay marriage. Is that supporting gay rights?

MKJ

[FormerDittoHead]

12. That's not what I heard HIM say on Mike Malloy...

A gay caller asked him about rights for gays, (which I would assume includes gay marriage) and he ended up telling the guy to "be yourself", "stick up for what's right" and other bullshit. He didn't say he'd do ANYTHING for them, from my memory, but I could be wrong.

The point here is that it was just another stick in VERY big bundle on this camel's back and he didn't make it any lighter...

Simply, the FairTax is a deal breaker for me and I only remember Iraq and audit trails for voting machines that I liked...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

17. Sounds as if you've formed your opinion.

MKJ

[FormerDittoHead]

19. It's amazing what doing your homework can do for your opinion.

ANY FairTax supporter will NEVER get my vote.

I listened to HIM on an HOUR LONG interview on Malloy. What the hell MORE am I supposed to do?

"Oh, let's fucking forget what he ACTUALLY SAID and go read his website"?

Let me save you the trouble. He got an hour from me and it was one, two, three, four, five, six strikes. HE'S OUT!

That's all the time he's going to get from me. You can call me closed minded. Sticks and fucking stones. I don't play those games. I've learned to trust my judgment about these things and yes, I've formed my opinion. I'm just reporting WHY I made my researched, informed decision.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

24. I"m wondering why you called for a discussion, then?

MKJ

[FormerDittoHead]

25. I think you're confusing me with the OP. n/t

[jpgray]

13. He used to support single payer universal--did he change his mind, or was his site wrong?

[FormerDittoHead]

16. What the fuck. His interview on Mike Malloy said nothing of the kind.

I honestly don't believe he's right in the head. There were things about this platform HE couldn't explain. After being unable to explain in human terms what the website said, he ended up simply referring people there.

He went on and on about having the current medical insurers enter into some kind of common pool to be divided up 4 or 5 different ways, and blaw, blaw, blaw.

The point is that the profits for the big companies would be there, only taking away any last vestige of motivation they may have to actually compete with one another.

In the debates, in case you haven't been watching the only thing he does is barb on the front runners. He never talks about HIS OWN plans...

[Puregonzo1188]

20. Yeah, I also thought he was for single payer health care until after I heard

the Malloy interview. His thoughts on health care along with semantical arguments with Malloy over the meaning of the words democracy, republic, and representative government (which also didn't make a lot of sense) turned me off. I mean I used to like Gravel, not as much as Kucinich, but I still liked him as a candidate a lot. After the Malloy interview, my opinion of him sunk. Yet, he's still more appealing than most of the other candidates.

[FormerDittoHead]

21. Here's a link to his Malloy interview.

It's only audio, but yes, it's on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZ0wUsuXHU

I only listened to the very beginning, it's what I remember.

[Larry Ogg]

26. I have found the biggest thing in economics that most people don’t understand is

ware does money comes from, i.e. our banking system and who controls it. The basics are not that complicated yet they don’t teach it in school, it is rarely the topic of discussion, most bank managers don't know the answer, it has been the biggest problem facing the U.S. and the world for many centuries yet it is barely an issue in political debate if at all. What light could you shed on the subject?

[FormerDittoHead]

27. Google it. Good info out there for free.

Bank managers should certainly know.

This is very nice:
http://www.ingrimayne.com/econ/Banking/Overview10ma.html

also:
http://www.vantagequest.org/trees/money.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation

[MyNameGoesHere]

30. well i can see some of your concerns

but "So, we turn over major decisions to the same people who watch Jerry Springer?" is already a reality since they vote. And besides what kind of progressive statement is that anyway? Are they some kind of a "less than" people because they watch jerry springer?

[FormerDittoHead]

31. I'm thinking of minority rights.

We have a system of checks and balances - that includes the will of the majority over the rights of minorities.

Our Democracy is one of democratically elected representation, and I like it. BTW, that's something which we DON'T have with the electoral system and I'd like to see that archaic system brought into line with most other countries.

I don't see anywhere in being "progressive" what would replace our system of representatives with direct referendum, which is what Gravel proposes.

If we, as a nation, were generally well educated, made good decisions, etc., I could see having national referendums. But I don't see that. I see Walmart and Jerry Springer. I use Springer only as an example of a racist, sexist society who supports fake wrestling on television but not publicly funded higher education. I see a 46% high school drop out rate in Georgia, and you want to give them direct voting rights on foreign policy, economics and taxes?

Take gay rights. I am aware of only one time when the general population of a whole state, Arizona, supported gay rights and even then it was to reject one to BAN gay rights, not vote in favor of them. Even in Blue Wisconsin, they overwhelmingly voted in a BAN on gay marriage. I am not aware of ANY popular referendum passing for gay marriage, but I HOPE I'm wrong there, but I'm going on recent memory. It my impressions that GBLTs know better than to ask the general population for gay marriage rather than go through the court system, which is what they've been doing.

This is what Gravel style popular referendums will get you:
http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/a/Election2006.htm

During an election, Representatives go through a process which usually eliminates those who lack education or don't have some kind of accomplishment which we, as a society, accepts as being responsible and even exemplary. Most people neither have the time nor the expertise to study and make decisions about very complicated things, many of which they only teach the basics of in college.

Sure, ask the general population if they think Elvis could beat up the Beatles, but please don't ask them to vote for the FairTax that Gravel supports.

[TheUniverse]

7. Hes a mixture of far right and far left positions.

He Supports Ending the War in Iraq immediately. He is Pro choice. He supports true universal healthcare. But he also supports that disastorous "Fair Tax" Plan. The Fair Tax plan is eliminating the income tax and creating a national sales tax. For that reason, Im not supporting, but I really appreciate him in the debates telling the truth about Iraq. He claims its progressive because you get a "prebate" which is a check to cover the taxes of necessities. But the whole thing sounds rotten, and would do nothing but hurt the US economy, as everyone would import to not have to pay a 30 percent tax on everything.

[durrrty libby]

8. He's a mixed bag o'nuts.

[demnan]

14. I actually have a friend who knows him well

and says he's a great guy and really believes in him. I like the way he speaks most of the time. I don't support him because I really like Kucinich in the primaries, but I certainly wouldn't scoff at him the way some do. My friend who likes and supports him is a very good activist and cool person.

[Puregonzo1188]

15. Ah, on one hand he wants a fair tax, which seems like a fairly

rightwing idea, on the other hand he wants a minimum income or "citizens wage" which some would consider to socialistic (not that that's bad). So those two cancel each other out. I was liking him after I first some on CSPAN at the Democratic Party Winter Conference or something, but since then I've been liking him less and less. After his Malloy interview I ruled out any possibility of voting for him, at least while Kucinich is running. Listening to how he believes the other Democratic health care plans punish business or push the burden on business when the should put the burden on the consumer kind of disturbed me. He seems to hate consumerism, which I can agree with, but I don't really think it's fair to punish people for buying things. Not all purchases are the sort of reckless/mindless consumerism he's trying to deter.

[Win]

18. I like Mike

because he is a free thinker and not afraid to speak his mind.
As to progressive or liberal I'd say neither, but more liberal and
libertarian with limits. He certainly knows the constitution.

[Raine]

22. Don't know how Liberal or Prgressive BUT

I think he is the only truly honest person in either party running.

[TheUniverse]

28. I'd say Kucinich and Ron Paul are honest also.

Please don't discount their presence.

[Raine]

29. I believe they are too

I should have gone into more detail and added that Gravel really calls out others on their bull sh*t, which is refreashing.

[NC_Nurse]

23. I'm glad he's running. He's got interesting views and

he's not afraid to speak his mind. That's refreshing next to all the sidestepping most do
about the issues. That said, I'm not sure I'd ever vote for him. I was really taken aback when he said that the credit card companies he stiffed when he
declared bankrupty "deserved it". I thought that was a little odd. Not that many of them aren't sleazy, but he DID borrow the money, didn't he?
He doesn't seem to have a snowball's chance, but he keeps the debates interesting. The others really put me to sleep.