Will Democrats EVER learn to stop being such stupid fokking SAPS?

[BurtWorm]

I sincerely doubt it, my fellow Democrats.

This is from War Room at salon.com:

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/10/03/no_surrender/index.html?source=rss&aim=war_room

MoveOn, Limbaugh and how the game is played

...

Fast-forward to 2007. Amid a drumbeat of Republican attacks, 22 Democratic senators and 146 Democratic representatives vote to condemn MoveOn's Petraeus/"Betray Us" ad. And how do Republicans respond to the vote? By continuing the attacks, of course.

As we've noted, California Republican Rep. Darrell Issa and Georgia Republican Rep. Lynn Westmoreland both showed up at Tuesday's House hearing on Blackwater USA armed with copies of the MoveOn ad to wave in the faces of their Democratic colleagues. And in a fundraising appeal sent later Tuesday afternoon, Republican National Committee chairman Mike Duncan warned supporters that "liberal groups like MoveOn.org" are raising millions to "to defeat Republicans in 2008." Duncan's message -- "Stop the Hillary Juggernaut!" -- singled out Clinton for voting against the anti-MoveOn resolution and accused her of "essentially condoning slander against our troops."

But even Democrats who joined Republicans in condemning the MoveOn ad are finding themselves subject to the continuing attack. Consider the plight of Illinois Democratic Rep. Melissa Bean. When the MoveOn ad first appeared, the National Republican Congressional Committee put out a press release in which it asked whether Bean would "denounce the group's despicable behavior," then sneered, "Don't count on it." Bean proceeded to vote with Republicans in condemning the MoveOn ad. The thanks she gets? One of Bean's prospective Republican opponents in 2008 puts out a press release accusing her of "blatant hypocrisy" for voting to condemn the MoveOn ad even as she "accepts huge sums of money from liberal groups like MoveOn.org, which advocates surrendering to al-Qaida and other Islamic terrorist organizations in Iraq, and launches vicious personal attacks against well-respected four star generals." As the Swamp notes, Bean hasn't received any MoveOn money since 2004.

The attack on Bean isn't an isolated incident. As the Washington Times reported earlier this week, the NRCC is going after "several House Democrats for receiving MoveOn donations and for voting against a resolution last week to condemn the ad." Explains NRCC spokesman Ken Spain: "Not only has the MoveOn debacle confirmed the American public's suspicion that Democrats ... remain beholden to the far-left fringe of their party's base, but it also speaks to the more current problem that Democrats face, which is their inability to act decisively on any measure."

Doesn't anyone know how this game is played? Sure: Not a single Republican has signed Harry Reid's letter condemning Rush Limbaugh.

[still_one]

1. Not until WE THE PEOPLE, take back our party

and that means voting out those whose ideology are not Democratic

This "big tent" concept is bull shit. The Democratic party was suppossed to mean progressive ideals, change, in a way which the Democrats brought us social security, medicare, environment protection issues, and civil rights

[Tesha]

2. Bingo. (NT)

[Greyhound]

12. I understand how you feel and agree with the principle, but the fact is that

the Democratic party has only been progressive for short periods during exceptional moments. It is usually the other "conservative" party, or simply "the loyal opposition" with the emphasis on loyal, as in to the crown.

[still_one]

23. I never said it would happen overnight /nt

[truedelphi]

14. I have your back, still one. And yet we are the ones told

To grow up, to PLS start to understand reality, to get a grip and realize that supporting the Corporatist takeover of the government's two party system is simply a matter of being "mature" and facing "political reality"

You know some time ago, when third party people ran for office, the opponents were smart enough to embody a portion of the ideas and values, for the sake of gaining the hearts of the third party supporters' votes. Not any more. No cocnessions are made - both parties have a tent big enough only for the concerns of BIG MONEY. And now the values that used to be those of a Democratic Party are marginalized and Republicanized - and no concessions are made.

[still_one]

25. A lot of water has gone underneath the bridge, and you can be sold a bill of goods only so long

before it becomes evident that either change must come from within the party, or through a third party. it definitely will not happen overnight

Civil rights and Row V Wade were decided by the courts, not by Congress. Only after the court took certain positions did Congress follow. I am not sure if that is the way it is supposed to be however, since we are a Representative government

[bvar22]

24. I'm with you!

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[terisan]

3. The foot soldiers are fair game to Congress; generals are weaklings who need weak Congress

to verbally protect them from a big bad newspaper ad.

The cry of the rightwing in Congress: don't throw word rocks at generals; throw those bad words at the fighters.

It is similar to foot soldiers being convicted for torture, while Bush , Rumsfeld and higher ups who gave orders or tacit approval are still free.

Government of, for and by the people has perished-will we be able to bring it back?

[tabasco]

33. Excellent points.

As to your final question, I have my doubts that it will happen without a huge calamity.

[Tesha]

4. Rule #1: You don't *SELL OUT* your hardest working partisans.

The Democrats haven't learned this very fundamental
rule yet. Let's teach them.

Tesha

[BurtWorm]

5. Yes!

:toast:

I do think Howard Dean has learned that. He's been kind of quiet lately, though.

[leftchick]

16. they sell out repeatedly

it is like a syndrome with them. I have had enough.

[Bitwit1234]

6. I really wish someone could answer this question

Why do the democrats let the republicans herd them into approving anything they want. And then the republicans unite and confront the democrats and usually win with everything they want. By goodness we have the majority, we have the public behind us, the republicans have nothing, but they manage to panic the democrats. DAMN ISN'T THERE ANY DEMOCRATS WITH SPINES OUT THERE. We have a few in congress but they are so few and far between they can't get the floor to get anything done.

First Democrats have to go before the public. Push push push the media. And tell this country they support our troops, and they are the ones who want to bring them home. Tell them the republicans are constantly foaming at the mouth trying to persuade the public that democrats don't because they dib;t want to throw all that taxpayer money to the corporations benefiting from this war. Mention Blackwater, Halliburton, Bechtol, Dyncorp and tell the public they are the ones who are ending up with the money. Not our troops. They have got to get that across and they have got to DAMN IT ALL TO HELL stand up to the republicans. The MoveOn ad is just an example of democrats letting the republicans panic them into something.

[BurtWorm]

7. Some strong-armed Dem needs to herd those cows into a room and berate them

into showing some spine. Damn those pathetic weaklings!

[A wise Man]

15. The poroblem with your statement is

"YOU MAKE TOO MUCH SENSE",

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Hillary gets kudos for being the least partisan candidate.

[Enrique]

9. but the republicans are going to LOSE playing their way

they're stuck defending Rush, who keeps becoming more indefensible. :rofl:

[mzmolly]

10. Unbelievable.

Our largest problem as a Party is the "wimp" factor.

[robinlynne]

11. The last sentence says it all.

[loudsue]

13. Once again, the Dems laid down with dogs, and got up with fleas.

They just haven't figured out the cause & effect relationship between those two things.

Aren't there any SMART dems in leadership positions besides Dean?

:kick:

[Carrieyazel]

17. We never learn. But this isn't surprising. Coming from a party that is

getting ready to nominate the worst possible general election candidate in Hillary, and ceding the White House to the Repukes yet again.

[DeepModem Mom]

18. K&R

[Generator]

19. Beyond that they are seriously in denial

over just how EVIL those are that are against them-and that is not hyperbole. Watching the story on Blackwater this morning on Democracy Now. Sickening-the guy that started and leads that is connected to every Republican group and conservative group there is. THIS WAS PLANNED. They plan to outsource the military. Because by doing that-no consequences! NONE. The coup just continues.

So basically the Republicans going back for at least 30 years have had this machine, and now this machine is funding mercenaries that can kill without consequence. That's pretty fucking evil.

And the DEMS do nothing. The Republicans are pure fucking evil, thank goodness the Dem's are lesser evil, all they do is IGNORE the evil. So I have a hard time respecting THAT. This government needs to be fucking shut down. And everyone of our "represent ives" should be in the streets and encouraging all that are with them to be in the streets. Just what Norman Solomon said on Democracy Now. I have thought this for years-I guess I'm not alone. The government is broken. End it. Don't continue the farce. That's what I wanted of some that are smart like Kerry-but NO! they continue the fucking charade that voting on shit in congress changes ANYTHING. Not when you have a government outside the law.

[stimbox]

20. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

:bounce:

[BurtWorm]

21. Error: you can't recommend your own topics

;)

[stimbox]

28. But you can bounce them!

:bounce:

[BurtWorm]

29. This is true.

:bounce:

[endarkenment]

22. There really isn't a Democratic Party.

At least not in the sense of a functional opposition party. Instead there is a duopoly, the War Party, that spans the entire Republican Party and between 1/3 and 1/2 of the Democratic Party. The opposition party to the War Party is the remainder of the Democratic Party. It is leaderless and rudderless and many of its members are not even clear what the real political situation is. Really we are in quite a bleak situation.

[paparush]

26. Between the MoveON Clusterf#ck and yet another vote in support of $150BN for the war...

I'm ready to change my party affiliation.

Will I do that? Unlikely, but I will work my ass off to replace my representative again .

Nov, 2006, we got rid of Charles "Chainsaw" Taylor after 16 yrs, in favor of Heath Shuler (yawn). Shuler has been a huge disappointment and I'm going to do everything I can to see that his seat goes to someone more progressive. someone willing to stand up and say, I will not vote in favor of any additional funding for this war. Period.

[tom_paine]

27. Clearly, the answer is no.

n/t

[rucky]

30. the Party's over.

you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

[autorank]

31. No. It's part of the plan.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. ...

Opposames.

[Triana]

32. why I registered independent

Republicans are evil, conniving, robber barons who would off their own mothers for profit - and anyone else that stands in their way. Drop Dead for Corprat Welfare is their Motto.

Democrats are nicey-nice, spineless, coddling, jellyfish who sit there and LET them. They too easily get drawn into the crap Republicans put out there. NO RESPONSE to the MoveOn.org crap would have been the ONLY appropriate one. But they can't manage that. They cannot help GIVING THEIR POWER away to the Republicans. They capitulate.

Who's worse?

Well. I'll NEVER EVER vote for a Republican but most of the time these days, I don't think Democrats are that much better.

I've been reading the threads here lately about how Democrats know we'll vote for them no matter what they do. Maybe they're a little too comfy - and ohhhhhh how they love their comfy little teddy bears, else they'd get OUT of their damn comfort zone and stop worrying about their politicial careers and start caring about their COUNTRY. But noooooo, that's not niiiice. So they sold it (and us) down the river.

I REALLY REALLY wish we had a PROGRESSIVE party.

[BurtWorm]

35. I know how you feel.

:toast:

I felt that way in 2004, too. When it was looking like Kerry was a foregone conclusion, I thought the roots should hold his feet to the fire for voting for IWR, even given his (to me, lame) reasoning that he thought it would force Bush to take the diplomatic route. I thought it was an opportune moment to force the frozen old farts in the Democratic leadership to pay the roots their due--or else! I got raked over the coals here for suggesting the roots ought to flex their muscles or wind up getting used and abused and dumped again.

Now really is the time to get the Dems to bend toward us. If they don't do it now, they're never going to.

[Triana]

36. "If they don't do it now, they're never going to."

They have had every opportunity and EVERY reason to for years. They've run out of excuses. This past year, it's been just one slap in the face after the other with them.

But what can we do about it? We either vote for them or end up with Republicans - the most evil humans on earth.