Are women being scared away from math, science, and engineering fields?

[ThomCat]

This seems like another "Well, Duh!" study.

The women I know who were in science and engineering programs were all good at working alone, ignoring almost anything, and didn't expect or depend on cooperation from anyone. In other words, they weren't people who could be easily intimidated.

http://www.physorg.com/news110550785.html

While previous research offers biological and socialization explanations for differences in the performance and representation of men and women in these fields, Stanford psychologist, Mary Murphy argues that the organization of Math, Science and Engineering environments themselves plays a significant role in contributing to this gap. Murphy contends that situational cues (i.e. being outnumbered) may contribute to a decrease in women’s performance expectations, as well as their actual performance.

Murphy and colleagues showed a group of advanced MSE undergraduates a gender balanced or unbalanced video depicting a potential MSE summer leadership conference. To assess identity threat, the researchers measured the participant’s physiological arousal during the video, cognitive vigilance, sense of belonging and desire to participate in the conference.

The results are telling. The women who watched the gender unbalanced video- where women were outnumbered by men in a 3 to 1 ratio- experienced faster heart rates, higher skin conductance (sweating), and reported a lower sense of belonging and less desire to participate in the conference.

...

These findings, which appear in the October issue of Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, demonstrates that rather than being endemic to women the experience of identity threat in MSE settings is attributable the situation.

[Warpy]

1. When I was riding subways at midnight, I never minded

being the only white person on the train. I did mind very much when I was the only woman on the train. It was very uncomfortable. I can certainly understand why women shy away from male dominated fields.

And yes, women are scared away from math and science. It didn't work on me when I was a kid because those were my passions. It did work on a lot of very talented girls who were then shunted into more sex appropriate things like arts and language. I paid the price by being dateless until I got the hell out of there and into college.

[IndianaJones]

2. I've worked as an engineer for 12 years.

I have worked with a total of 2 female engineers.

[Clark2008]

3. I think it would be fun to be the only woman - or one of the few -

at a company.

I'm the only female in sales here - and, ironically, what we sell is technical training.

[BlooInBloo]

4. I didn't notice an ability difference in grad math or philosophy between men and women...

... well, except that the women were much prettier :) . There were all kinds of both genders. Maybe there were more women in the math-education side, but that skewing of talent is due to the fact that it's *education*, rather than their gender.

Possibly there was a difference in my math dept. between the boys and the girls in their willingness to *argue*. But that's not really a substantive difference. The end essays of the one gender were just as good (bad) as the other. The philosophy girls happily argued just as much as the boys did.

Teaching undergrads, however, the girls were significantly better than the boys - simply because they tended to heed my suggestions more often than the boys. Lo and behold, they did better on the tests. Stupid boys. lol - Oh well - it was nice to get confirmation that my suggestions, when followed, DID result in competent performance.


But as far as your comment goes, note that you're looking at exactly the sample space: THOSE WOMEN WHO WERE IN SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING PROGRAMS. The "scared away" phenomenon takes place BEFORE they get into those programs. I.e., the whole point is to consider the women who AREN'T in those programs.

[aikoaiko]

And yet, Smith was the first all women's college to open an engineering program in 1999

Even when surrounded by all women, women don't flock to STEM disciplines.

[Evoman]

5. Things are slightly improving in the field of biology.

Most of my lab students, and a majority of the grad students in my department, are women. They actually outnumbers us by about 3:1. Our university has also begun hiring many female professors as well (3 of the last 4 hires have been women).

However, the same can't be said for the other departments (yet). Chemistry has seen some improvement, but physics is a long way off yet. What is interesting is that I taught the labe for an engineering course in biology, and over 50% of the students were female (and they were getting the top marks). Whether this class was an anomoly or a trend, I have no idea.

I hope more women go into the sciences. From my own experience, they do a whole lot better than the men, and work that much harder.

[Captain Hilts]

6. Biology has always had more women than the other sciences.

Hell, Poli Sci didn't have many women when I started in the late 70s.

[BlooInBloo]

8. Empirical rule of thumb: The more mathy, the less women....

... Which is to be examined, and rectified.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Perhaps they are more scared of the crappy pay. You make more

in just about any other field & get treated as a professional instead of a geek custodian.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Yah. Tell that to the quants on Wall St. Let me know when they stop laughing at you.

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. You mean all 100 of them?

[BlooInBloo]

11. (a) off by a couple orders of magnitude, and (b) People with imagination can easily...

... multiply such examples.

EDIT: Oh - and (c) They're hiring like MAD for those positions. There simply is NOT a lack of high-paying positions for math Ph.D.'s. It's a seller's market for that credential.


EDITEDIT: Typo.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. Might as well try out for the National League & astronaut corps too.

As if a Phd in mathematical finance is some sort of realistic option for the masses. Give me a break.

Leave it to somebody on this site to produce a completely obscure & recondite counter example.

[BlooInBloo]

13. It's only obscure and recondite because of the low education level of Americans....

... But thanks for acknowledging it as a counterexample! :)

EDIT: And moreover, Ph.D.'s in straight math, or physics are also completely acceptable to quant-type-hirers. They basically just want proof of high intellectual horsepower, and significant technical facility.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. I don't think anybody's saying it's a realistic option for the masses.

But I don't see why it's less realistic for women then it is for men.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Troo dat.