Should being a "Law and Order" fan qualify someone as a real juror?

[tridim]

I just got back from jury duty (excused due to having a stomach bug) and it was obvious the judge and the lawyers were very impressed with people who said they watched Law and Order. I've never watched the show so maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but why the hell would a TV show be a qualifier?

I love the movie "To Kill A Mockingbird", but I don't think that makes me any more or less qualified to sit on a jury.

Any thoughts?

[Turbineguy]

1. As a fan, no

but as an actor they are qualified to be president of the US.

[sniffa]

9. ....

:rofl:

"the chair recognizes the DA from Law & order."

[DFW]

2. Watching Law and Order gives you as much insight about the law

As watching Star Trek gives you about NASA.


But be careful: in the Bush era, there might be Bush appointees
at NASA who ARE impressed if you say you watch Star Trek!!!!!!

[BlooInBloo]

5. Vere are zee noocLEEar Wessels?

[Mythsaje]

3. That's odd, actually...

Law and Order generally, from my experience, has a lot of cases that are not cut and dried, where it's all about perception. I know because damn near every episode I've ever watched leads to a debate, or at least a conversation, about the case in point.

I will say that stupid or ignorant people probably don't watch (not to say that all people who don't watch are either), and most who do are generally fairly aware of the nuances of police and courtroom procedure.

Other than that, I can't begin to guess.

[DFW]

6. Gratned, such shows have evolved since the days of Perry Mason

But fiction they remain.

[Mythsaje]

13. Fiction without fact to base it on is worthless...

People who watch are usually knowledgable about Miranda, search and seizure, and the like...more than the average American, perhaps.

[TomInTib]

17. I tend to agree.

While I do not watch Law and Order (probably due to my lack of natural intelligence and curiosity), I agree with your premise.

It's the same with sports, literature, etc.

An active fan (reader, whatever) makes for a much more receptive and comprending ear.

[Mythsaje]

18. I don't watch it anymore myself...

But I used to.

I stopped getting anything new from it and my focus shifted.

[DFW]

33. I wouldn't know

I don't get American TV where I am most of the time.
All I hear about these days are Idols and Housewives,
neither of which I have ever seen.

[tridim]

10. Who knows, it might disqualify them too..

I couldn't stick around to find out. But I did notice the prosecutor and the judge perked up when 4 or 5 of the jurors mentioned being fans. One was a BIG fan, said she watched it every night. Is it really on every night?

[Mythsaje]

12. I think it is...

It's been on USA, Bravo, and TNT that I know of.

[petronius]

23. If you have cable, you can watch L &O for at least 6 hours a day

(That's a guesstimate - not a scientific survey of cable schedules, but I think it's accurate...0

[kath]

29. Oh, yeah, it's on all the time, and has many incarnations -- on "The Simpsons" there was a line

"Law and Order - Elevator Inspection Unit".

Bwah!!

[bluerum]

4. No wonder the country is in the $hitter.

[Solly Mack]

7. I'd go with the people that stayed at the Holiday Inn Express last night

[NMMNG]

8. Are they on drugs?

I'm series here. :scared:


But then maybe I could qualify for employment as a nurse as I've watched ER. :sarcasm:

[BlueJazz]

11. I'm not actually a Juror but I DID stay in a Holliday Inn last night.

[madrchsod]

14. remember the crazy lady in texas

that drowned her 5 kids in the mid 90`s. she was tried and convicted and was sentenced to life. several years later someone discovered the states star witness discussed a law and order episode about a woman drowning her kids...opps the guy made it up..she now in a mental institution.

law and order is`t real and the judge and lawyers should know that..but there are judges and lawyers that are that dumb

[pansypoo53219]

25. the 'expert' Park dietz

is a turd. history of turdism. 1st encountered that twit during the jeffrey dahmer trial. he told Janet Reno it would be alright to invade the branch davidian house. so i can see why he would make that 'mistake' for the texass justice system.

i will say it anytime i find PARK DIETZ"S droppings!

[enlightenment]

15. Fiction or not - correct or not, Law & Order does require

the viewer to pay at least a little attention to the plot (however weak the plot . . .). It does regularly use words that have more than one syllable and it does (at least from my various jury duties and service) give an idea of the process of law in the courtroom (not saying it's right, just that the broad outline is there).

Perhaps the judge and lawyers' just felt that those people might have an IQ slightly larger than their hat size.

[kath]

30. My impression was that having a decent IQ tended to *DISqualify* one from jury duty.

[enlightenment]

32. LOL!

True, it would seem so - but I have a pretty decent brain, am overly educated, and teach college history . . . and they still pick me. Maybe I'm just deluding myself and I'm really dumber than a box of rocks!!

Seriously though, I think much depends on the case and the lawyers, doesn't it? Perhaps, as someone up thread mentioned, they were identifying the people to whom they would issue a peremptory challenge?

:shrug: :)

[NanceGreggs]

16. As a court reporter ...

... I understand the idea here. Law & Order, as well as other TV shows and movies of the last twenty years, have been pretty good in terms of showing what a trial procedure is like - unlike the days of Perry Mason, et al.

I know that back in the olden days when I started reporting, many jurors were shocked to learn that they couldn't question witnesses themselves, or ask the judge or a lawyer for clarification of a point in the middle of the proceedings, or stop a witness mid-sentence and ask the court reporter to read back previous testimony. Jurors also tended to be taken aback by the fact that they were not privy to off-the-record discussions, or might be barred from the courtroom while judge and counsel had discussions out of their hearing.

Watchers of Law & Order (or shows like it) are probably more familiar with the basics of how a trial proceeds, and what is expected of the jurors.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. Law & Order does involve complex issues of the day

but the storyline is almost always told from the prosecutorial point of view. I don't think I ever remember plots regarding any prosecutorial misconduct, scheming, lying, or examples of police abusing the civil rights of and the framing of the wrongly accused. I've occasionally seen examples of Jack McCoy coming to the realization that the accused is not guilty. But then he tries to do something to correct that, something that continues to reaffirm the show's message about the D.A.'s office being basically good and concerned that justice be done. Even though there is a great deal of nuance in Law & Order, and some plots actually try to generate sympathy for and understanding of the lawbreaker, in most of the shows the prosecutors are the good guys, whereas in real life, some prosecutors are politically motivated individuals who concentrate more on winning than in seeing that justice is done.

Shows in the old days such as The Defenders focused on violation of the rights of the accused and misconduct on the part of the government. I wonder if a member of the jury pool who said they liked those kinds of shows, where the prosecutor is the villain, would also be seen with favor by the court when empaneling a jury. If I were a defendant's attorney, I would be concerned about a juror who admires a show where the D.A. is consistently shown as a noble figure.

[AlCzervik]

20. the jurors were asked if they watched L & O? Thats weird.

i was on a jury and they only asked if i watched local news.

[tridim]

21. No, the last question asked about favorite TV shows, radio programs and books.

The jurors volunteered L&O as their answer. Several mentioned "The Office" too.

I said I listen to "Progressive talk radio", probably another reason I was dismissed.

[AlCzervik]

22. it's pretty sad they were impressed were that. I've been watching L & O since

the days or Mr. Robinette and Michael Moriarty but that no more qualifies for jury duty than having brown eyes.

[aikoaiko]

24. wasn't there some brouhaha about CSI contaminating jurors expectations

I guess Law and Order is different enough, but I recall some courts were lamenting the exaggerated expectations of jurors on evidence gathering because of CSI.

[pretzel4gore]

26. the one show i watched...still angers me...

the basic plot unfolded thus: a robber robs a store, shoots someone and while running away throws his gun in river. Divers looking for gun find a 68 vw van. When door opened, a skull tumbles out, with bullet hole in it! Also a security guard i.d. found inside van. Skull belonged to 'hippie' leader who led anti war protest at office. The 'hippie' was listed as disappeared in '68 right after the anti war protest...the security guard i.d. card belonged to guard who was on duty at the office. The guard located in retirement florida- he then admits he killed hippie right after the protest. His excuse was that he had received notification that very morning that his son had died in Viet Nam. He was arrested because of the law, but a jury refused to convict him. Everybody happy. (The hippie's brother tells the investigators that his brother was in fact an undercover cop.
There were several problems with the nuances in this episode. The 'protestors' used the US flag to ...ahem, as toilet paper. That is highly unlikely in real life- the anti war movement felt it was the real patriots, who valued the nation enough to try to stop nixon era repukes from waging an unjust war. The idea that they were nasty, drug zonked idiots who America put up with for too long, and the idea that the regular, decent majority of people knew to let the professionals take care of biz like war etc, seems fraudulent. The anti war protestors were depicted as evil, and any security guard was right to murder the protest leader (and then it turns out he was a cop too)...esp. when his son died defending mom's apple pie and the flag, and he was all stressed because of that...sam waterson etc should be ashamed of themselves for being part of such a misinterpretation of history

[Solon]

34. Uhm, looks like you turned off that episode about halfway through...

The kid who was murdered was a COP, a rookie who was a member of a secret police unit that infiltrated anti-war groups for the sole purpose of inciting violence. The Security Guard at the University didn't know this at the time, neither did any of the student protesters. During the course of McCoy's investigation, they hit a wall when trying to figure out how a poor as dirt student could afford university and funding anti-war activities at the same time. The police were belligerent, and McCoy had to subpoena their records, and found out the kid was an undercover cop. His assistant, Ms. Carmichael, was the conservative type, as we all know, and, McCoy himself WAS a hippy, and therefore wanted to expose this unit in the police to the public. Carmichael was skeptical and quite belligerent herself, she called the protesters of the 1960s terrorists, and McCoy(Waterson) blew his stack at her, etc. It was a great episode, and showed how big a rift there is between those who believe in protected speech and direct action(McCoy) and those who don't(Carmichael).

[pretzel4gore]

36. i threw a beer at the tv after the guard was let off...

you're right. i probably summed up the show without seeing it all(!) i just assumed it was a variation on the 'family ties' gary david goldberg spiel. In 'family ties' hippie parents are exposed as idiots by their realistic, hard headed son who glories in nixon's skillful presidenting etc. So the not guilty verdict given for the 30 year old murder in L and O angered the sam waterson character? The program, in general, defended the idealistim of the counter culture?
darn, i shoulda watched it all!
(for many years now, even pre 911, i have pretty well given up on tv. i saw enough of the 911 coverage to recognise that the fix was in from the gitgo-they needed to include the pentagon in the disaster in order to fully milk the outrage they created destroying the 'world trade' centre ...the 'Sopranos' and glimpses of Keith Olberman gives hope for future, in terms of our masters treating us as adults, but it sure aint here yet)

[CT_Progressive]

27. If it was "12 Angry Men" I'd be far more impressed.

THAT was a movie.

[H2O Man]

No more than

doctors should get their degrees from watching reruns of "Medical Center."

[dflprincess]

28. I can remember reading that American cop and/or lawyer shows were causing problems in some European

countries - can't remember which ones - because people had been arrested would complain that they hadn't been read their rights. The problem was, that whichever country this was, didn't have a law about reading anyone their rights.

[TorchTheWitch]

31. Of course they want those people - they're believers

They don't want people with any real experience with the law which is why they routinely toss out anyone who either works in it to some capacity themselves or has a friend/family member that does. Watchers of Law and Order would tend to be believers in the system - that it works and that it's good. They want true believers and basically black and white thinkers on the jury, not anyone that has any awareness of what it's REALY about or who pays attention to the shades of gray.

[Solon]

35. I was called to Jury duty once, I was disappointed when it was cancelled...

Was told to call a number for the jury pool, it was an electronic message saying the jury isn't going to be called. I was all ready, I even had the book "Runaway Jury" by John Grisham ready to go with me, for reading material, I hate being bored, and like causing trouble. :)