Why I think we're really screwed if Clinton Part II is released:

[originalpckelly]

Area 51*:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51#Environmental_lawsuit

*Forget the alien bullshit, this about environmental laws.

Specifically:
"Citing the State Secrets Privilege, the government petitioned trial judge U.S. District Judge Philip Pro (of the United States District Court for the District of Nevada in Las Vegas) to disallow disclosure of classified documents or examination of secret witnesses, alleging this would expose classified information and threaten national security. When Judge Pro rejected the government's argument, President Bill Clinton issued a Presidential Determination, exempting what it called, "The Air Force's Operating Location Near Groom Lake, Nevada" from environmental disclosure laws. Consequently, Pro dismissed the suit due to lack of evidence. Turley appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, on the grounds that the government was abusing its power to classify material. Secretary of the Air Force Sheila E. Widnall filed a brief which stated that disclosures of the materials present in the air and water near Groom "can reveal military operational capabilities or the nature and scope of classified operations." The Ninth Circuit rejected Turley's appeal, and the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear it, putting an end to the complainants' case.

The President continues to annually issue a determination continuing the Groom exception.<24><25><26> This, and similarly tacit wording used in other government communications, is the only formal recognition the U.S. Government has ever given that Groom Lake is more than simply another part of the Nellis complex."

*Cough* *Cough*

:wtf:

Yeah, that's wonderful, protect the government from a lawsuit by issuing a "Presidential Determination" exempting Area 51 from the disclosure laws.

Now, we should be aware that he probably didn't draft that himself, but he was probably informed of it, and probably signed off on it. I don't know about you, but it gives me the "willies" to think that someone on our side participated in such a clearly corrupt action.

[Gman]

1. BFD

[originalpckelly]

2. Huh? The government uses its powers to cover up massive environmental damage...

and it's BFD?

[Gman]

5. BFD

I'm not into finding things the Big Dog did when president. The Big Dog was one of the two greatest presidents of the 20th century with FDR being the other.

Who cares and so what? The Big Dog isn't going to be on the ballot in the primaries and in November 08.

[originalpckelly]

6. Such blind devotion to a political figure is a very serious matter.

What if by chance torture occurred under our fair former President's government? What then? Would that make you mad, or would you create some pathetic excuse for that too?

I think it's a little more than strange that a nation with 300 million can't dig up more than two families to control the country. We ought to be wary of this trend toward hereditary rule.

[Gman]

28. Torture does not happen anywhere "by chance"

and it would not have happened under the Big Dog. You can answer "yeah but, what if?" And I would answer well, what if an asteroid full of Kryptonite by chance were to strike the Fortress of Solitude?

[journalist3072]

7. Exactly..he's not going to be on the ballot. His wife is running for President, not him. eom

[Myrina]

8. ... it looks like we'd get another '2 for the price of 1':

... and we all know how well that worked ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3017423

[originalpckelly]

21. Yeah, and let's talk about that. A nation of 300,000,000 people...

and we can't find someone else but a Clinton or a Bush to run for President, anyone else starting to get the duoarchy vibe here? Is this nation an elective aristocracy?

[MilesColtrane]

3. We can't have the public finding out about...

...the alien nanobots in the runoff from Area 51, now can we?

[originalpckelly]

4. Laugh all you want, I'm not fucking talking about the stupid alien bullshit...

I'm talking about the existence of places that are secret, were not acknowledged by our government, and were in fact covered up by an allegedly Democratic President.

[JackRiddler]

10. stimulus... response. stimulus... response.

So well conditioned. :eyes:

[MilesColtrane]

15. Yes, I am conditioned to make alien jokes about Area 51.

I'll bet your ill manners are natural though.

[JackRiddler]

16. Kettle.

[MilesColtrane]

17. Pithy.

[JackRiddler]

18. True.

[MilesColtrane]

19. Ignored.

[etherealtruth]

9. How about "WHy I think we're screwed if a Republican is elected"

I don't have time to list all of the horrific things that have occurred over the past 7 years ... any DEM (and that most assuredly includes HRC)will be far better than any of the repukes in the race ... if they were to win we are truly screwed.

[JackRiddler]

11. "If you're not with Clinton you're with the terrorists"

Got it.

[etherealtruth]

13. Yeah, thats exactly what I said

I'm not even sure if you rearranged the letters in my response one would arrive at that.

[originalpckelly]

23. What you're demonstrating is binary thinking, either you must accept "Democrats"

or you're with the Republicans.

I have a right to stand up for freedom and the rule of law, to both "Democrats" and Republicans.

[etherealtruth]

25. No, its reality based thinking ....

A third party will not win (in the near future). Walking away from the Dem nominee is strengthening the repuke chances of a victory.

Changing the course over the long term is laudable (and something I agree with) ...but, for now, the odds of a third party win (on a national level) are slim to none and I will not do anything to facilitate a Republican victory.

[originalpckelly]

27. I'm not talking about third party, we are still in primary season.

What, I have to support Clinton or else?

[originalpckelly]

22. I think that's why I'm deeply trouble another Clinton will win.

It's very difficult to differ between either Clinton and a moderate Republican, hell even a "conservative" Republican like Mitt Romney has the same damn "universal health care" plan.

This fucked up, and I'm not going down without a fight. I don't want any elephants winning in '08, even elephants in donkey drag.

[etherealtruth]

26. Take a look at HRC's actual voting record ...

It is a far cry from the republicans.

Edward's remains my horse in the race at this point ... but, following the primaries I will do all I can to defeat the Repuke ...and that means supporting the Dem nominee

edit: spelling

[LeftCoast]

12. That's it?

You know, we're pretty used to prognostications of imminent doom around here. This one's maybe a 2.0 on the earthquake scale of doomedness.

I think you're going to have to kick it up a notch to compete.

[originalpckelly]

24. You don't think it's important that we'd ignore our own laws?

Are you saying it's OK for someone in power to break laws, but the rest of us mere mortals must follow them?

Isn't that like, I don't know, a dictatorship?

We're talking about people dying, one of the workers literally died because of his exposure to these horrid chemicals.

We're talking about the same willingness to break our laws in the interest of "national security".

Which laws are OK for President to waive and which laws must be followed?

Isn't lawlessness lawlessness?

[MilesColtrane]

14. At least it is remotely plausible that there is some truth to the stated reason.

That is where the Air Force develops and test flies new aircraft.

I'll bet there were plenty of lawsuits against all branches of the military during Clinton's 8 years.
How many others did he block by Presidential finding?

Bush, on the other hand, has whole web sites devoted to his paranoid, secretive, and illegal operations.

http://www.bushsecrecy.org/index.cfm

I have much bigger problems with Bill Clinton's presidency than some unproven conspiracy.

You have the absolute belief of a cultist, and the manners of a Republican.

[originalpckelly]

20. You know the law professor who fought the government was John Turley.

Not some idiot freeper, but John Turley. He's consistently against this bullshit with the government declaring itself above its own laws. So am I, even when alleged Democrats participate in it.