What is the law regarding threats on the life of a sitting president?

[bbernardini]

DISCLAIMER: Any presidents spoken of in this post are purely hypothetical.

We know the stories about people making statements (online or otherwise) that will get them a visit from the Secret Service. What, do you suppose (or know for sure) is the "lower end" of the scale of things that will get somebody a visit? For example, if a person called up the FBI and told them "my daughter heard one of her classmates say he wished the president was dead," would they take that as a serious concern, especially since the means of death was not specified, and could be from natural causes? What if the "natural causes" clause was removed, and the person stated they wished somebody would bring harm to the president (even if the person stating this had no means or chance to do so)?

[Bucky]

1. My advise: Don't

The situations you describe are all dice rollers. If the word gets out, which it usually won't, it all depends on which Secret Service agent sitting at which desk gets the call. They may be obliged by statute to look into the matter, but something that is clearly frivolous won't get much attention. However, if the incident gets some PR, like when that bonehead southern senator said Clinton shouldn't come down to his state, it could result in a couple of uncomfortable interviews.

On the other hand, if the FBI has reason to fuck with you, any comments to that effect could get prosecuted.

[Gman]

2. I think there's a big difference between saying

I wish Bush would keel over with a stroke and I would like to shoot Bush. One conveys a general feeling toward him, the other possibly could convey intent. In other words, it is against the law to threaten bodily harm and;or death to the president, regardless of who the president is.

Just guessing here, but I would think that the SS was extremely busy running down RW threats, idle or not, against Clinton. OTOH, liberals are generally peaceful and would be out of character in threatening the president, even Bush.

[jmowreader]

3. With this president they're being exceptionally strict

IIRC some guy was telling a joke about Shrub getting a jalapeno pepper shoved up his ass...the punchline included the words "burning Bush." It got reported as a threat to the president's life; the joke-teller received 37 months in the federal pen.

Here is the joke: http://www.thespeciousreport.com/2002_burningbush.html

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

4. A lawyer friend

once put it to me this way: If you wear a t-shirt that says PRACTICE ARMED REVOLUTION, The Man has every right to fuck with you, because you are openly advocating treasonous behavior. If your shirt says VISUALIZE ARMED REVOLUTION, you are talking about *the idea* of armed revolution, and that's protected by the Constitution. So if they fuck with you then, call me!

[kestrel91316]

7. So I can "visualize Bush dead of a painful disease"?

I could SO do that.......

[Rhythm and Blue]

5. I would completely avoid saying anything that could possibly be construed by anyone

as being remotely indicative of a threat to the President's life. Not something to dick around with.

[KAZ]

11. But a "Clinton in Gunsights" sticker on the back...

..of your pick-up, is just peachy.

[L. Coyote]

6. FBI does not reply if you offer evidence of election irregularities.

So, don't expect them to do anything at all.

[Mike03]

8. Verboten

I know of several instances in which talk show hosts who even took a phone call from a caller who insinuated violence against a sitting president were interrogated. It is very serious business. Even joking about it can get people into trouble.

[pinto]

9. Here is our Administrators' stand (as far as posting on DU) -

National Security

Do not post messages that could be construed as advocating harm or death to the president or other high-ranking official in the United States government. In the case of the president, do not even post jokes, as the Secret Service is not known for its sense of humor.

Do not post messages that could be construed as advocating armed revolution or violent overthrow of the government of the United States.

<more at>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[NV Whino]

10. Don't ask. Don't tell.

[Crabby Appleton]

12. It's a Federal offense -

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 41 > § 871. Threats against President and successors to the Presidency

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000871----000-.html

[bbernardini]

13. But how does that apply to something spoken? nt

[Crabby Appleton]

14. yes - spoken

or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President

[bbernardini]

15. Kick for more opinions!

[iamthebandfanman]

16. you can say

that u want to beat a president up, just not kill them.
im pretty sure thats how verbal threatening goes when dealing with the president

[Didereaux]

17. What part of...don't you understand?

(prev posted)
ITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 41 > § 871. Threats against President and successors to the Presidency

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_se...
-------------------------------

NOTE: "....or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States..." followed by "...and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President..."

What do you not understand about that clause?

[iamthebandfanman]

18. you know by the wording

one could say this only implies to things written down... not verbal

[bbernardini]

19. Exactly.

And your response was much nicer than I would have been to the rude OP.

[Didereaux]

21. ..okay another tack...

NOTE: "....or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States..." followed by "...and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President..."

What do you not understand about that clause?

the "and willfully otherwise makes any such..." THAT is the part that covers all other forms of expression, such as verbal. So if you say I am going to kick the crap out of the President, you fall squarely under that USC section.

Perhaps it is arguable that this form would NOT do so 'I would LIKE to kick the crap out of the president!' Then there is really no definite intent. But you're gonna spend some $$$ with a good atty if some political apparatchik Asst US Atty decides he wants your ass.

Does that clarify it somewhat?

[HughBeaumont]

20. I don't know, ask Jesse Helms.

The laws posted above obviously don't apply to Dixiepublic'n Senatahs, because he mostly got away with it, save some "tsk tsk"s and "that's just Jesse being Jesse"s:

Quotation: Mr. Clinton better watch out if he comes down here. He’d better have a bodyguard.
ATTRIBUTION: Jesse Helms (b. 1921), U.S. Republican senator from North Carolina. New York Times, p. A19 (November 23, 1994).

Public statement made a week after calling the President unfit to be commander-in-chief.