Q. How do you know if you're upper middle class, or above, in America?

[redacted]

A. You have health insurance



(Paraphrased from Princeton Economist Paul Krugman, in his outstanding Democracy Now interview on Wednesday.)

[SoCalDem]

1. You have health insurance you can afford...AND

you have a little money left over for "frills"..

[mdmc]

2. So at 25500 per year w. benefits in NY, I am middle class

That is some powerfully sad shit.

[DesertFlower]

6. OMG. you're poor.

i have a friend in NYC who's single, makes $60,000 a year and has health insurance and he's far from upper middle class.

[Atman]

11. But $60k in NYC is like $30 anywhere else.

Far from "upper middle class" anywhere 'ceptin maybe the hills of Wes Virginny.

.

[mdmc]

16. welcome to du!

I enjoy my life quit a bit without the stuff that money can buy. I live in a small city with lots of illegal aliens. They make so much less then me, and they are wealthy compared to their home community.

I think that I am in the top 10% of worldwide wage earners. That is some sad shit. Think of how many poor people have to be on this earth to put me in the top 10%.

[DesertFlower]

18. enjoying life is really important.

money does not buy happiness or good health.

i know about illegals. i have them where i live too. they work their asses off for a little money.

[mdmc]

23. good folks

:toast:

[Mike03]

3. Krugman is fantastic, but this time I don't agree

I think there are many irresponsible or optimistic Americans like me who can afford health insurance but don't want to get it for various reasons. I have a suspicion that the number of Americans who can afford it but don't get it is larger than people think. But it's just a hunch.

Anyone who wants health insurance should receive it, but people who don't want it should not be required to have it, IMHO.

[Cobalt Violet]

4. You get paid sick days and vacations.

You also get paid personal days and holidays.

[papau]

5. Have Health ins and in the 7th + year of a mortgage you are sucessfully paying off

then you are middle-class.

If you feel a need for a trust and partnership lawyer because a $7 million estate class exclusion is not enough, you are rich.

Upper class is middle class with a well funded 529 and 401k plus a defined benefit pension plan to hide the income on which you stop paying Social Security payroll tax in June or earlier.

Getting by OK = lower middle class or upper lower class = having income exceed outgo by $1 or more each month.

[Mike03]

7. Yes, the mortgage issue is going to rear its head

The ARMs are beginning to adjust, and right after the holidays there are going to be ton of adjustments in Jan/Feb/March, and about nine months or so after that these homes are going to be foreclosed. It's going to be a tragedy, and to me that is a more important middle class issue than health insurance.

[papau]

14. The resale of mortgage facility that has been set up may keep credit flowing, but

2 million folks (up from the usual 600,000 per year) will need to be refinanced with fair fixed loans. The Fed finds that there was a push to put brown and black into these "special" (more than 3% higher rate than market) loans. http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/10/04/minorities_get_more_high_cost_loans/

Boston just discovered that upper income Blacks are being pushed into these loans with their resets at a pace 3 times higher than low income whites. http://www.umb.edu/news/2005news/releases/january/lenders.html http://www.masscommunityandbanking.org/PDFs/BorrowingTrouble5.pdf

[Mike03]

15. Interesting, but scary

Thank you for the information.

It would be nice to exchange financial idea with other interested people on DU, because it's hard for me to get a fix on this market. It's very volatile right now.

[papau]

17. I m retiring in 70 days as my last contract if finished (there may be me doing some work as a favor

but that is about it).

Do you need a contact into the mortgage section of an investment department ? I once knew those folks but everyone seems to be aging and retiring as I age! :-)

There are brokers and agents of insurance companies and sellers of funds (that are perhaps in rather great supply) who claim a knowledge of the market.

In any case, you have nothing to lose by putting your ideas out for discussion - there some good economists on this board (I am not one of them - I'm just an actuary) and they well enjoy discussing any idea you may have.

[Mike03]

8. That would be an interesting poll to take here

To see how many people who can afford health insurance don't have it for whatever reason.

[Mojorabbit]

9. nah

hubby is a family physician who had a heart attack 8 years ago at age 44 due to a congential defect he never knew he had. They fixed it with a stent and he is 100 percent ok. No one will insure him at any price. No one.

[redacted]

10. Apparently Krugman's insightful analysis is lost on many DUers.

At least based on the comments I've read so far in this thread. We've already had our share of posters here disagreeing with his insight as if it weren't a fact. And we've had others here who are convinced what he says is absolutely 100 percent untrue because they know somebody who knows somebody who has health insurance and makes less than $5,000 a year. Or whatever.

Then let me spell it out for those of you so busy focusing on irrelevant exceptions and details that you've once again completely missed the point of yet another DU opening post.

Krugman is poining out that, by and large, on average, and other things equal, America is rapidly becoming a nation where the only folks who have health insurance are either upper middle class, or they're wealthy. And that's a fact. There isn't any real debate about that trend any more, as anybody who has been following the news closely over the past six months should know.

Apparently some here at DU could benefit from a junior college course in logic and reasoning. It's unfortunate to say that. But the GOP constantly uses arguments designed to trick and mislead in order to divide Democrats. Based on what I've seen tonight, it's no surprise that many Democrats fall for those GOP ploys.

[Mike03]

13. Deleted by me

nevermind. But on this occasion his purported insight is not that insightful.

[TahitiNut]

20. (grin)

Chill. Many DUers have a habit of reading their own entrails.


:rofl:

[Hoof Hearted]

21. dupe

[Hoof Hearted]

22. Bullshit - but we're all so grateful for the condescending insult. It really bolsters your argument

Krugman was off base here, and DU'ers are calling him out on it. You - do not have to take it personally.

[Horse with no Name]

12. I have health insurance

AND I feel that I am middle class...but I am ALSO feeling it harder to hang on to middle class than it used to be.

[Hoof Hearted]

19. $16,640/yr FULL TIME is upper-middle class? Bite me.

I spent 12 years before I got this shitty job without it. I spent 20 years - TWENTY YEARS - in the workforce before I ever had a paid vacation day or a sick day. Now I work for these peanuts but at least I know if I get cancer I won't get told to go home and die.

Thanks Krugman. I didn't know I could now afford that vacation cottage in the Colorado rockies and a nice little boat, and maybe that new hot little hybrid I've had my eye on too.

Who know a lousy 16K+ could go so far.

Ooooh, and 26 weeks out of that year you can subtract $102.00 for my premium. That leaves me with $13,988. Yeah, that's upper middle class.

:grr: