S.F. considers ‘shooting gallery’ for drug addicts

[Contrary1]

SAN FRANCISCO - "City health officials took steps Thursday toward opening the nation’s first legal safe-injection room, where addicts could shoot up heroin, cocaine and other drugs under the supervision of nurses.

Hoping to reduce San Francisco’s high rate of fatal drug overdoses, the public health department co-sponsored a symposium on the only such facility in North America, a 4-year-old Vancouver site where an estimated 700 users a day self-administer narcotics under the supervision of nurses.

“Having the conversation today will help us figure out whether this is a way to reduce the harms and improve the health of our community,” said Grant Colfax, director of HIV prevention for the San Francisco Department of Public Health.

Organizers of the daylong forum, which also included a coalition of nonprofit health and social-service groups, acknowledge that it could take years to get an injection facility up and running. Along with legal hurdles, such an effort would be almost sure to face political opposition..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21367579/

[The Straight Story]

1. Next thing you know you will be allowed to smoke in bars there

:rofl:

[Demobrat]

6. Yes that second hand heroin

is really hard on the employees.

[allisonthegreat]

54. Reasons why shooting gallery would beneficial

It would of course reduce od's. Having a legal place to shoot could also be used as a clean needle dispensing station as well. this would curb the infectious disease spread among iv drug users. probably it could reduce crime. so many good reasons why this is a GREAT idea! as long as law enforcement does not get involved!

[madeline_con]

63. "It would of course reduce od's."

Are the nurses going to be there to counsel people on just how high they want to get, their tolerance levels, how many times their stuff's been cut and all that?

[slackmaster]

34. Best reply ever on DU

At least maybe this week.

:toast:

[shadowknows69]

36. I can only dream

When if it happens I'm on the first bus there. Earthquakes be damned.


Edit: Thought you meant smoke in bars as in Amsterdam "smoke in bars"

[slackmaster]

43. The fine for smoking a cigarette in a bar in California is about $250

The fine for smoking a joint out in public is about $40.

[Runcible Spoon]

53. ......

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHA :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:

[JackBeck]

2. Fantastic idea.

And if they were to incorporate harm reduction education, as well as education about HCV and HIV transmission even better.

This has worked in many places outside of the United States, it's about time we at least tried to catch up to the rest of the real world.

[Blashyrkh]

3. They get pretty much slagged in the media here in Australia.

I think we have one or two trial rooms running, but I haven't heard about them for a while.

[JackBeck]

8. Holland and Germany have seen a reduction in OD's from IDU.

And I believe the Netherlands has seen the positive results and taken the lead as well.

I'm all for this, especially if they include education about HCV (which unfortunately many people are unaware of how pervasive this virus is compared to HIV) and HIV transmission, as well as safe injection techniques and harm reduction education.

[High Plains]

48. It's down in Kings Cross, and it's working just fine.

Despite the efforts of your dick-headed prime minister to kill it.

[liberalmuse]

4. It's certainly a start.

Maybe in 100 years we'll realize you can't fight wars against drugs, poverty, terror or any other pronoun with any real success. Education is the key.

[seriousstan]

9. Many places? Could you list 4 and the method in which they worked?

In England, during the 60's, 70's and early 80's, it increased the number of junkies by 5 times and up to 30 times.

In "Needle Park" in Zurich, the number of junkies rose from a few hundred in '87 to 20k in '92. The program was halted because of violence and deaths.

Having been to Norway myself, I can attest to the deplorable conditions and crime at the Oslo train station where they all congregate.

But, you tell me all about the success stories. I'm all ears.

[JackBeck]

10. Switzerland, Holland, Germany and the Netherlands.

"Having been to Norway myself, I can attest to the deplorable conditions and crime at the Oslo train station where they all congregate."

That's not what we're talking about here, is it? We're talking about nurses supervising shooting galleries. And, like I said, I will be more supportive if there is education about HCV (especially) and HIV transmission, combined with harm reduction techniques.

[seriousstan]

12. If you can herd junkies into nurses supervised shooting galleries, you can herd cats.

Tell me the actual stories of how these help society. I have mentioned examples, some from countries you point to. Like I said, I'm all eyes.

[JackBeck]

13. We've been able to herd drinkers into a supervised environment.

And yet some still choose to be careless and indulge beyond their limited capacity. I fail to see your point.

Like I've said, I'm all for supervised injection as long as there is not only education about HCV and HIV transmission, but safer injection techniques and harm reduction.

[seriousstan]

14. I'm am waiting for those examples.

[JackBeck]

31. ...

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/wdr07/WDR_2007.pdf

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/11524/2007/00000084/00000002/00009145?crawler=true

From 2000: http://www.drugpolicy.org/docUploads/harm_reduction_digest_injecting_centres.pdf

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=314055

http://www2.criminology.fsu.edu/~jdi/33n3.htm

[Heidi]

15. Okay, I'll tell you. Desperate people often commit desperate acts.

Here in Switzerland, where people can use administer "hard" drugs in a safe, clean environment, there isn't as much worry about desperate acts like drug-related crimes, people overdosing in dark alleys and dank hotel rooms, or transmitting blood-borne illnesses as a result of shared, unclean syringes. Of course those things do happen here, but they're anomalies. Here, many drug addicts are productive, working members of society; and because they're using clean instruments to administer their drugs of choice, the chances of blood-borne illnesses as a result of shared, dirty syringes are greatly reduced.

The US does a lot of things right, in my opinion, but the way we deal with drugs is not one of them. The US "War on Drugs" should be called what it really is: a War on People.

[seriousstan]

21. Show me the articles in a MSM . Not an advocate website.

[Heidi]

23. Okie dokie.

Here ya go: the 2007 U.N. World Drug Report. (No the UN is _not_ an advocacy group.)
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/world_drug_report.html

Plus, analysis of US drug policy and international drug policy by an Orange County Superior Court Judge: http://www.dailypilot.com/articles/2007/10/08/opinion/dpt-gray07.txt

Plus: http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/op_ed/hc-steves1016.artoct16,0,5960624.story

[ConsAreLiars]

26. Thanks. Of course the dittoheads never offer any of their own, demand others "proive it" and

then totally ignore the facts. After all, delusions are at the core of their sense of self-righteousness, and without them, they would have to face reality.

[Heidi]

27. I did note that there was no rebuttal to the UN study and the MSM analysis that I posted

TWICE. :)

[seriousstan]

22. And the price has dropped and the availability has increased.

The number of junkies has increased. I am still, AFTER THE THIRD TIME, asking you for the MANY places where this has worked. I have proved my point! You have not responded. Your point is baseless..

[Heidi]

24. :poopcorn:

According to the 2007 U.N. World Drug Report, the percentage of Europeans who use illicit drugs is about half that of Americans. (Europe also has fewer than half as many deaths from overdoses.)
Read more here: http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/wdr07/WDR_2007.pdf


"How have they managed that - in Europe, no less, which shocks some American sensibilities with its underage drinking, marijuana tolerance and heroin-friendly "needle parks"?

They treat drug abuse not as a crime but as an illness. And they measure the effectiveness of their drug policy not in arrests but in harm reduction.

Generally, Europeans employ a three-pronged strategy of police, educators and doctors. Police zero in on dealers - not users - to limit the supply of drugs. Users often get off with a warning and are directed to get treatment. Anti-drug education programs warn people (especially young people) of the dangers of drugs, but they get beyond the "zero tolerance" and "three strikes" rhetoric that may sound good to voters but rings hollow with addicts and at-risk teens. And finally, the medical community steps in to battle health problems associated with drug use (especially HIV and hepatitis C) and help addicts get back their lives."

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/op_ed/hc-steves1016.artoct16,0,5960624.story

[JackBeck]

30. And to think I posted two out of those three points, without reading that article.

Thanks for the back-up. I'll have to bookmark that report.

[Heidi]

33. Please feel free

to steal the poopcorn smilie, too. It seems to come in handy for discussions like this one where there's an enormous body of scientific data which detractors are all too willing to ignore. :hi:

[JackBeck]

42. That's exactly what I wanted to say this morning.

But my coffee hadn't kicked in yet.

:hi: :pals:

[LeftCoast]

25. From a public health standpoint, this isn't about 'all' junkies

This is about a subset of IV drug users who may benefit from this.

I'm not sure this idea will work or not, but we know the present methods of dealing with the problem are not working. Hopefully this program will help some IV drug users to quit. Barring that, I'd be happy if it provided a safe place for them with a clean needle and needle disposal bins.

If nothing else, just disposing of the needles is a huge improvement. There has recently been a series of articles discussing the 'needle problem' in Golden Gate Park, where drug users are tossing needles on the ground where anyone can get stuck. I want to see this type of behavior seriously reduced and if this program can help, I'm all for it.

[High Plains]

49. Check out the results from the Vancouver safe injection site

It's called Insite. It has been very carefully evaluated. It has broad support in Vancouver, although the Conservative national government would like to kill it.

Here's the link. Read the research page. Happy reading. www.vch.ca/sis/

[slackmaster]

38. Don't addicts in those countries get medically prescribed drugs and/or treatment?

I'm pretty sure that the Netherlands provides medical heroin, and that the German program requires enrollment in some kind of treatment program.

[Horse with no Name]

55. Links please.

I'd prefer you use peer reviewed articles. Thanks in advance.

[Heidi]

56. Here's the 2007 U.N. Drug Study.

If you read German, French, Dutch and Italian, I can provide you with more data.

Meanwhile: http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/wdr07/WDR_2007.pdf

[KingFlorez]

5. I don't know about this

I understand why they are trying to do this, but these drugs are still illegal and harmful. A municipality should not be facilitating something like this.

[Demobrat]

7. What they are facilitating is

getting dirty needles out of parks, playgrounds and people's cars.

[EFerrari]

16. Harm reduction. They will do it anyway.

This way, it happens safely and at the same time, the users are connecting with a support system they didn't have before. It is counter intuitive and, it works.

[ConsAreLiars]

17. Harm reduction is exactly the point and the goal of any healthy society.

Those who want to see the victims as villains, force them into further sufferring, and cause further pain are far more vicious and dehumanized than these poor addicts. Unfortunately, even some who post on DU consistently buy into the RW "blame the victim" view of the world.

(edit to fix typo)

[EFerrari]

18. I'm glad someone knows what I'm babbling about.

:)

[D-Sooner]

46. "It works"... meaning what?

It works to reduce the number of junkies, or it works to keep them alive but has no effect on their addiction?

I disagree with the whole "they'll do it anyway" line of thought. Human beings don't become drug-addicted out of thin air. Every junkie makes a choice somewhere along the line to start using and city-sanctioned centers like this legitimate that choice. The city's basically saying it's okay to be drug-addicted. Come get your needles. No judgments here.

[EFerrari]

47. The city is not saying it's okay to be drug addicted.

It's saying we prefer to keep people alive and safe. Once you're dead, it's pretty hard to recover from drug addiction.

[JackBeck]

51. Question:

Do you support needle-exchange programs?

[D-Sooner]

60. Absolutely not

I don't believe in enabling illegal drug use.

[JackBeck]

61. I'll stick with the CDC and NIH on this one.

More so, I'll continue to applaud NEP's because of their use of education to inform their clients about HIV, but especially HCV. Not only are more people infected with HCV worldwide than HIV, but IDU is the easiest way to spread this blood virus, accounting for over 60% of all new infections. Any reduction of more infections is welcome news in my world.

[Skink]

11. They should let Starbucks spike the coffee.

[Contrary1]

19. **Bump***

[Contrary1]

20. I should have bumped that....

as an addict. I am.

[BB1]

28. Drugs don't kill people, people kill people.

No problems in Amsterdam, you'd think? The place where everything's permitted?
They've been on a free-methadon project for so long, addicts now think drugs are free, so they won't even bother stealing your car-stereo. And since even the dutch government lost some 160 kilos (340 lbs) of heroin, we can give heroin away for the next five years:)

Are the locals happy in SF? 'Cause that's what counts, imo.

[LeftCoast]

29. I can't speak for all San Franciscans

I can only say that if it means a reduction in drug abuse deaths, communicable diseases, and/or a reduction in the number of loose (used) needles lying around I'll be happy. I doubt huge numbers of people will use the program, but even a 5 to 10% reduction in these numbers could be significant.

[marmar]

32. It's a very pragmatic action, ala Holland or Germany, that almost never happens over here....

Good for San Francisco for conceiving something based on pragmatism rather than the Puritanical silliness that informs so many decisions in America.

[slackmaster]

35. My problem with this is the logically inconsistent legal situation

It's illegal to possess drugs like heroin without a prescription.

There is presently no legal way to obtain a prescription for heroin.

People in such a facility would be using street drugs of highly variable purity.

I say legalize it first, then talk about government-run facilities where addicts can safely use government-supplied dope that is made to pharmaceutical standards, and seek treatment if they so desire.

[shadowknows69]

37. Not legalize, decriminalize

sentences for junkies should always be treatment first, not prison. Unless violent crimes are involved of course.

[shadowknows69]

39. But defintely leagalize that green sticky shit.

As long as alcohol is legal, pot should be. Period.

[slackmaster]

41. I agree completely

Prohibition doesn't work.

[slackmaster]

40. That's still too inconsistent for me

It should be legal for someone who is medically diagnosed as an opiate addict to receive maintenance doses of whatever kind of opiate they are using. Methadone treatment has limited value for people determined to keep using heroin. (Often they get their methadone and keep buying junk.)

[High Plains]

50. Why should heroin users be sentenced to anything?

Drug use should not be a crime. What stupidity.

[shadowknows69]

52. Sorry, due to a friend of mine dying of the shit

and a few others that have had real bad times with it I'm a little soapboxey on this one. There are some harder drugs which should flat out not be made totally legal or readily available for consumption beyond those unfortunate souls already caught by it. I put coke and meth in this category as well. Junkies will find their junk but it has to be made illegal for people to provide it that don't have the addicts best interest at heart (IE any dealer). Perhaps sentencing addicts to treatment is harsh but these drugs do not allow for free will to get you on that path if you're in deep enough. Decriminalized, addicts can register for their fix or treatment. Preferably treatment. There is no silver lining to a life of addiction to these drugs and they almost inevitably lead to criminal behavior of some sort.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. That's the same argument against condoms in schools.

Teens shouldn't have sex, therefore they shouldn't have condoms.

End result: lots of pregnant teens with STDs.

[slackmaster]

57. I'm disappointed you don't see the problem with that analogy

It's not illegal for anyone to possess a condom any time, any place.

It is illegal for pretty much anyone to possess heroin.

[stimbox]

58. It is if that condom is full of heroin.

I'm a San Francisco voter and I support this program.
Harm reduction is a good thing. What's going on here now is not working.

[JackBeck]

59. Sadly, most people don't believe or understand Harm Reduction programs.

And instead respond with knee-jerk, uniformed opinions.

[distantearlywarning]

44. This is what I thought they should have been doing all along.

Glad finally some city in this nation is waking up.

[Cobalt Violet]

62. This is good.

It's well worth it.

[JackBeck]

64. Yes it is.

And there are numerous worldwide studies that support Safer Injection Facilities (SIFs).