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What if we've already been rounded up? The pragmatism of a dystopian present-tense.

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:31 AM
Original message
What if we've already been rounded up? The pragmatism of a dystopian present-tense.
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 11:33 AM by nashville_brook
It seems reasonable to me that politically aware people such as fellow DUers would be waxing dystopian lately. We're witnessing bizarre and regular shocks to our collective pysche...

-- The Katrina Massacre (a city overtaken by paramilitary thugs, mass death and random imprisonment/police violence);
-- police brutality at shutting down mass demonstrations (such as the LAPD Immigration rally melee); and,
-- tasering civilians practicing free speech in a university setting,
-- Grand jury subpoenas IP addresses of alt-newsweekly readership

Given these abuses, it's only normal to air our anxiety about what happens next. We worry for our kids: what sort of world they are inheriting? We want to fix it. Instead of paranoid "fantasies," I see worried "parents" are getting over their fear of what happens next and entering a "strategy" phase, as Naomi Klein hopefully posits in The Shock Doctrine: when the shock starts to wear off, we can get down to the business of making life better.

So, it's with alarm and puzzlement, that "worst case scenario" discussions often attract heated debate as to whether or not the worst could really happen "here." Some people seem personally invested in the notion that nothing that bad could ever happen here. Their posts are peppered with tinfoily hats and eyeroll icons. I guess the desire is to claim a moral or intellectual high ground, as if there's an upside to ignoring creeping authoritarianism. Is there a real-world upside to ignoring the temperature rising under our amphibious butts?

I'm puzzled by this response, because, as I see it, no one loses when ideas are freely discussed. If no worse case scenario happens, well, yea. In the meantime, why wouldn't you "reality check" and strategize?

Setting this aside for a moment, I think it's significant that our discussions are evolving from mere anxiety to strategizing. Might we be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, if we are no longer afraid to answer these questions?

I'm going to assert that our worst case scenarios HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED. Consider New Orleans in the wake of the levee failures and the paramilitary takeover.



Doesn't it seem like we had a worst case scenario there? For all the people who died in their attics, or lost their homes, or are forever poisoned from the environment, it doesn't get any worse.


The narrative that has captured our imagination and generated controversy is the "good german" myth, where rights are diminished to the point of non-existence, while everyone looks on. We imagine that we'll know when "it's fascism" by the presence of government troops and concentration camps. But, the founders of this country imagined a different worse case scenario -- tyranny in the form oligarchy and theocracy. Our laws and Constitution were written to protect the people from the concentration of wealth and political power. Who here can say that we are not yet danger regarding these threats? Who here can say that economic and political power haven't ALREADY slipped from our grasp?

What if the shit hit the fan a long time ago and we're not noticing it because we've grown accustomed to the constant stream of poo covering our cultural landscape? "Good german" scenarios warn against the loss of freedom. So, can someone please tell me what freedom it is that you are afraid of losing? Can you put that "freedom" in plain sight so that we can guard it more carefully? Because, think we have basic misunderstanding. The Good German Syndrome is the fear of complicity in the face of loss of freedom. I think our problem is more serious and talk about "freedom" is meaningless. Our problem is that we've lost our POWER, not our FREEDOM.

We can speak all we want. We can speak in "free speech zones." We can speak if we don't mind being tasered. We can march in mass demonstrations if we aren't too afraid of being caught in the middle of a melee. We can post on DU, as long as we don't mind that the telecomms are keeping track of everything we say. We have freedom of movement as long as we don't mind cavity searches if we show up on a secret "no-fly" list.

We have freedom-in-quotation-marks in spades.

The problem is we have no power to be heard because our government has no interest in speech that doesn't come in an envelope with a large donation.

Does money equal speech, as the Supreme Court will likely rule 5-to-4 for the rest of our lifetimes? If corporations enjoy "freedom of speech" via money (which I have very little of), then, how likely is it that my speech will be heard?

Earlier this week, Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi lamented her inability to arrest those exercising free speech outside her Bay Area mansion. Do you think, if those wishing to be heard, came bearing giant corporporate donations, that they'd be outside building buddahs? No, they'd be inside being heard. Forget about having the power to compete against the deafening ka-ching of lobbyist checks being cashed. We no longer even have the commodious tolerance for speech (even in San Francisco!), by our so-called Democratic leadership. Were that we were homeless, indeed.

Freedom is nothing without POWER, and we're starting to realize just how vulnerable this has made us. Discussing "what if" and "worst case" scenarios is a response to our loss of power. It makes perfect sense to take inventory of our assets and formulate a response in the face of another, larger, deeper catastrophe -- such as the "World War 3" Bush says is "worth starting" in Iran.

I think we've already been "rounded up." We're fed-up, and we're not going to take it anymore. Our discussions at this point are about REGAINING POWER -- not pre-empting a disaster.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Let me be the first one to recommend this
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 11:40 AM by nadinbrzezinski
and by the way there is more

You ask why people are invested?

Yes they are.

It is natural human psychology to deny that anybody could be that evil, and that is what we are talking about

Most folks are descent

They would never even imagines the evil of a totalitarian state

They are shocked

It cannot be happening here

As I pointed out a couple days ago, some of "government leaders" appointed by the Germans at Warsaw went to the showers still in
denial that this was happening.

It is very difficult to understand the banality of evil, or that the US is not exceptional

You are fighting human psychology and American history, as taught in schools.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. thanky nadinbrzezinski...
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. spot on
and bonus points for the homage to Arendt.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. She's one of my favorite halloween night readyings
:-)

The problem is, well now it is no longer a nightmare, but dark and stark reality
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. K & R -- I believe you have hit the proverbial nail.
The question now becomes how do we take back our power?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. i think that the biggest clue to that is to pay heed when the oligarchs squeal...
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 11:41 AM by nashville_brook
when they freak out, we're doing something right. it's actually quite easy to know when we are on the right track as long as we remember that we are not the oligarchs -- we are the plebes. we are not on the same team. so, when they are pissed, it's prolly b/c we've punched them in the wallet.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. The first step is recognizing a problem
after that it gets complex

But the first step is to break the sense of local isolation in your local community

Believe it or not... saying hello and good morning to your neighbors is a revolutionary act at this point

We have been broken down and socially isolated...
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. whoa! you intuited a theme i edited out of this essay...
thought it was too long. maybe i'll write a follow-up -- grab a copy of the Federalist Papers and read Number 10. knowing "your neighbors" is much more important than it might seem. so easy, yet so powerful.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Been sounding an alarm about this for a while
And in the trenches trying to edumicate some folks

In fact, right now I have a string of ignores when I post any OP becuase denial is also a powerful narcotic
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. i don't do ignore -- used to -- but missed the deconstruction funtime
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. When it has gone from deconstruction to stalking
you use it.

My list is short, but selective


very selective

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. totally -- i totally get that
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
76. nadin, you bring brilliant enlightenment and it can
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 10:34 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
be harsh for those opening their eyes to the bright light after dark slumbers.

:toast: from one who is still squinting a bit. :-) MKJ
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. Wear some glasses!!!!!!
:toast:
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
131. also grab a copy of Machiavelli's The Prince
I just finished reading it and the parallels to modern issues are amazing... and I think there may be a few answers in there too.

if one wants to study oligarchs and theocrats, the Italian city-states of the late 15th-early 16th century are... enlightening.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. People think that we have too many rugged individualists with guns.
And, therefore, it could never happen here.

But who are those rugged individualist people going to point their guns at? That's the question no one has an answer to.

And how will they know the time is right to point their guns at whomever they determine are the right people, if they are unable to organize? Another question no one wants to tackle.

I do hope the pollyannas would take a stab at this before they weigh in here. I really do. It would ease my mind if there were an answer.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. nothing would please the authoritarians MORE than the promise of "gunplay"
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 11:57 AM by nashville_brook
it gives them more POWER.

ruby ridge and waco are good examples of the folly of "armed rugged individualism."
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Right,
As if every law-abiding citizen is going to wake up one morning and decide that they want to join the Branch Dividians, or in the alternative, join the S.L.A. That seems to pretty much cover the right AND the left, and frankly, I don't see it happpening.



The Weaver family, on the other hand, seems to have just said: "why bother with joining together with other people and cooperating, to hell with all that, we'll just take on the entire federal government by ourselves." They must have been some EXTREMELY rugged individualists. They pretty much proved that approach as ineffective. I can feel almost positive that this approach will be used again, with very similar results. This isn't a good strategy; we need something better.



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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. that SLA photo -- what a BIZARRE period of our history!
seems tailor-made for a Grindhouse adaptation.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Come on, we only need 1 more for Greatest. nt
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givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Done
Off to the front page with ye...
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. afterthought -- on the picture of the floating dead and powerboat guy...
check out his body language. he's adjusted to the shock of the massacre surrounding him. how is that not the same perceptual normalization that we have copped to en masse?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. All too well said.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Tom pass me the popcorn, some folks will soon show up
you know what I mean

:popcorn:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. "to all my friends..."
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Oh my, thank you
it will last us for the thread...

:-)
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. my pleasure... :)
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. :) coming from "tom_paine" i'm totally wigged!
teehee...

love your stuff -- but i can also dream of the first tom paine saying that. sigh.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. Recommended!
:kick:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. A virtual round up can
hardly be equated with the real thing, and your examples are thin. For example, in the 3x I've marched in DC over the past 5 times, ot once have I felt in the tiniest bit threatened by anything.

Of course there's been a disaster; that would be 7 years of bush/cheney, erosison of civil rights, a disasterour war, an economy on the precipice, etc. So yes, it's about regaining power.

And this is a largely spurious claim:

"Some people seem personally invested in the notion that nothing that bad could ever happen here."

No, some people find the particular scenario that you and others paint, and the signs you use to "prove" your argument, flawed, while still being quite aware of the existing and potential threats. I'm one of them, and I've never used a smilie to make my argument, but thanks for the derision for another point of view.



"We can speak all we want. We can speak in "free speech zones." We can speak if we don't mind being tasered. We can march in mass demonstrations if we aren't too afraid of being caught in the middle of a melee. We can post on DU, as long as we don't mind that the telecomms are keeping track of everything we say. We have freedom of movement as long as we don't mind cavity searches if we show up on a secret "no-fly" list."

So are there free speech zones when we march in DC? Because I've marched right by the White House. Free speech zones are an infringement and must be reversed, but are they as prevailant as you suggest? The comment that we have free speech as long as we aren't tasered, is more hysterical than factual, and it appears to be based on one incident, where the issue was not the victim's speech. The tasering was dead wrong, but he wasn't tasered for speech but for resisting arrest.

Many of us are alarmend at such things as the possibility of the telecoms keeping track of what we post, but we recall that his is hardly the first time the government has kept tabs on the speech of private citizens. We have to fight this now, as we've had to fight it in the past.

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. Yep, they are disappearing people all the time.
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 01:48 PM by Usrename
And also torturing them. But is it really as prevailant or as urgent a problem as we are suggesting? A few free-speech zones are to be expected, I guess. Is it really that big a deal?

And the shame and horror of the Katrina aftermath, when Blackwater was sent in and shot the place up murdering some folks, and then calling for martial law to put down the lawlessness that never existed (except by paid mercenaries), there's nothing to glean from those events. It was a NATURAL disaster. God did it.

If they DO round up a half-million citizens (I'm just asking a hypothetical because I know they have asked the same hypothetical and have even planned for it by contracting Halliburton to build detention facilities here), just say that they DO round up 500,000 people one day, what would YOU do about it?

Would you complain to someone about it? If so, who would you complain to?

I suspect you will try avoid answering this question at all costs. You do this all the time when I ask an honest question. You just say, "oh, that will never happen, and therefore the question doesn't deserve a response.

But please, give it an honest go, if for no other reason than to pacify me a little here. What would you do if they rounded up a half-million people and put them in the detention centers that they had specially built for that purpose? What would YOU do?

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. judging from your response, you don't understand my argument -- so, why don't you
try to restate in your own words so that we might have an understanding.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. those were my own words. And I think I understood
your argument quite well. It's really not that different from the argument that you and others frequently make. I'll tell you what, why don't you tell me, what in my post convinces you that I don't understand your argument. Oh, and the use of the royal "we" is quite amusing.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. b/c i'm talking about POWER, not FREEDOM
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. you also make the argument that the two are intertwined
and to a degree, I don't disagree with that. But you seem to feel there's something new about it. I don't. It's amplified by encroaching corporatization but it's the same beast.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. so, you missed the part about oligarchy, too.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Nope. Just because I didn't address it, doesn't mean I missed it.

Good college try though. I've long been concerned with that as I had a father who was semi-obsessed on the subject going back 30 years when I was just a kid.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. so, tell me what your critique is.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #58
72. Hahahaha!
I only recently began using the 'ignore' funciton... and you are here arguing with one of the first on my list! Hilarious.

Don't let this one get to you... all over DU I'm seeing similar arguments with 'ignored';)
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. far as i can tell, they don't care for a discussion here. pity.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #72
98. It's lovely when you see a stream of "Ignores"

in a thread are being answered by sensible replies. You really know you're right about the people you have on Ignore then. I had one of my "Ignores" stalk me the other day and I easily figured out who it was, took her off Ignore to check, and bingo, it was my stalker. I'll be watching for her now.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #72
106. I don't know which one it is. I never look and the ignore makes it difficult
anyway. And I have five of the Smear and Sneer Brigade on ignore so I never know which (rhymes with glass mole) I am talking about.

In any case, I second the advice. It makes the DU experience much more productive and worthwhile.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
99. That wasn't the use of the royal we, that was the OP

suggesting that if you explained more, you and the OP might understand each other better. You and the OP constitute "we."

The rest of us might, too, and make up a larger "we."
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
100. Double post nt
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 01:22 AM by DemBones DemBones
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
67. A nice non-threatening day at the inauguration.


I really wonder which reality some of you are living in.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. good lord -- i'd forgotten about in-ugh-uration day.
remember the chatter about his reinforced, anti-tank limo? the doors were like 8 inches thick.

here's another pic:

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #70
92. What freaked me out about inauguration 2004, watching it on CSPAN
was that as the Bush-Cheney motorcade approached, it was proceeded by a loudspeaker truck that said, "The presidential motorcade will soon be here. Please prepare to greet President and Mrs. Bush and Vice-President and Mrs. Cheney. God bless President Bush, and God bless America."

I wish I were making this up.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. that's revolting.
i remember watching it on cspan too -- sitting on the floor in the middle of the living room with the sound turned down. we were supposed to go out that afternoon, but got glued to the spectacle. like watching Alderon explode in slow motion.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #92
101. I wish you hadn't told me that just as I'm about to go to bed.

That is very creepy. And I believe in God. I don't believe in calling on God that way.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #101
121. I could agree with
"God, please convert the Bushes and Cheneys from their evil ways," but I can't imagine the Republicanites wanting to put that on a loudspeaker. :-)
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #92
124. oh god that is sickening enough to me do this
:puke:
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Cookie wookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
69. Guess you weren't there in DC for the tularemia scare
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 06:43 PM by Cookie wookie
I had friends who were, one who got sick and was hospitalized, but it wasn't tularemia (so the hospital said and therefore it must be true).

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:W9hCaT5yzMAJ:www.scdhec.net/health/disease/han/docs/HA-TUL-1.pdf+D.C.+tularemia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=35&gl=us&client=safari

Tularemia as a Biological Weapon:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/285/21/2763


Or being watched by the man in the suit on the phone (who didn't care to be photographed) while we held a candlelight vigil against the war -- and feeling like we were paranoid, and then finding out that a vegan group in our state, among others, was being watched as potential terrorists. Oh those dangerous non-meat eaters.
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=75151

Or the Providence RI girl who was part of a small peaceful protest and had her leg dislocated and almost had to have it ampututated because she protested broken labor laws.
http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/newsblog/archives/2007/09/update_injured.html

Then let's excuse the tasering of the kid because he was "resisting arrest." What exactly was he being lawfully arrested for -- bogarting at the microphone? That's not against the law now is it? Well, maybe it is.... But if the police are closing in on him to arrest him when he hasn't broken any law, aren't they the aggressors and should citizens not have a right to try to escape from unlawful behavior even if that behavior is by the police?

These are different times and all the excusing just doesn't cut it. We've passed over the line, like the op says, it looks like we've already lost our power, we are down for the count.

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. i'd forgotten about the tularemia until i was bitten by deer flies earlier this year...
while we were admiring my giant, swollen leg i mentioned that deer flies are known to carry tularemia and that it was somehow released in DC at one of the protests. i wasn't believed. will forward your links to my disbelieving friend. thanks.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. this is very interesting -- tulermia is the most infectious pathogenic bacteria known
i would imagine that its infectiousness is the subject of interest in the research field.


Tularemia, a bacterial zoonosis, is the subject of this fifth article in a series providing recommendations for medical and public health management following use of various agents as biological weapons of terrorism. The causative agent of tularemia, Francisella tularensis, is one of the most infectious pathogenic bacteria known, requiring inoculation or inhalation of as few as 10 organisms to cause disease.Humans become incidentally infected through diverse environmental exposures and can develop severe and sometimes fatal illness but do not transmit infection to others. The Working Group on Civilian Biodefense considers F tularensis to be a dangerous potential biological weapon because of its extreme infectivity, ease of dissemination, and substantial capacity to cause illness and death.

In the 1950s and 1960s, the US military developed weapons that would disseminate F tularensis aerosols; concurrently, it conducted research to better understand the pathophysiology of tularemia and to develop vaccines and antibiotic prophylaxis and treatment regimens... By the late 1960s, F tularensis was one of several biological weapons stockpiled by the US military. According to Alibeck, a large parallel effort by the Soviet Union continued into the early 1990s and resulted in weapons production of F tularensis strains engineered to be resistant to antibiotics and vaccines (hmmm, how'd your friend recover?)

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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
75. There was a march in DC? When. Why didn't I hear about it? How come it
wasn't on TV?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. no doubt! n/t
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
26. When they finally shut DU down
and if I can get away when they come for me, I'll meet everyone at the Jefferson memorial in DC. I'll pick out a nice hanging tree for the lot of us.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. If we don't hang together
we will surely hang

paraphrasing Franklin

They knew EXACTLY what they faced...

I wonder if our generation does
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
109. Doesn't Appear So
I don't think Americans do realize what is happening. And, by the time they fully awaken, if they do (Did the majority of Germans awaken before they lost the war?) it will be too late (if it isn't already).
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. there won't be a "shutting down" -- more likely they'd subpoena our browsing/posting history and IPs
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
103. They're getting the names of all of us who have

read Village Voice online since January 1, 2004. See you at camp!

:hi: Agent Mike!
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #31
110. Now, Why Would They Need A Subpoena
They haven't needed those in a while. They undoubtedly have whatever they wanted on us already.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. Jesus H Christ on a trailer hitch!
How the fuck did I miss this nuance? Thank you for an enlightening post.

-Hoot
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. thanks, hoot -- just making lemonade with this stinky pile of lemons
:hi:
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. recc'd and earmarking to comment on later
kcik
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
68. thanks lerk...
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
33. We're already under 'house arrest'
The paralysis of the left is symtomatic of this fascist regime's tactics. Greens can't fly, along with Ted Kennedy. Domestic spying to the max (sigmoidoscopes will be handed out to the GOP activists to use on their neighbors).

'It starts when you're always afraid....'
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. self-censorship happens silently -- we can have no idea how many people
have dropped out of "the dialogue" because they feel insecure in voicing an opinion.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
35. You've made some FINE observations there, Nashville. recommended.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. thanks... as has been pointed out: loss of POWER *precedes* loss of FREEDOM
i was focusing just on the separation of the two -- but i think that there might be a finer point to put on this.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I wish I had something to add to this discussion, as I've been having similar thoughts for awhile.
There's hardly any aspect of a social "worst case scenario"
that isn't happening somewhere. And beyond "happening", it's
shrugged off as "normal".

We live in interesting times.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. you know how it's inconceivable that you'd wreck your car -- until you wreck your car?
and that cancer is something that happens to other people?

i think that's in effect here. some folks can't conceive of "worst case scenarios" until they experience them personally.

it's an empathy thing.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
42. I want to recommend this more than once!
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thanks for this
K&R
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. it was your thread yesterday that kicked this idea off for me --
i was switching between reading Conason's "It Can Happen Here," and Klein's "Shock Doctrine," and everything kinda collided for me in your thread. we're past airing anxiety -- we're ready for reconstruction.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #45
85. I've long been writing and editing and re-editing an essay
on American powerlessness - you can call it impotence, or feudalism, but it all results in the same thing - they are attacking us, our power, on every front.

They certainly take away the power of our votes.
If somebody hurts us, they don't want us to be able to sue.
If we are arrested, we don't have the power to see a lawyer.
If some company puts poison and crap in our food, that's just too damn bad.
We can't get good public education for our kids.
We can't keep our jobs from going overseas.
We can't afford or get health care.

We are being third-worlded as fast as the moneyed class can make it happen. And even if they arrest us and put us in a cell, they will even take away the dignity of our suffering by breaking our minds.

It's bleak - every single plank on the GOP platform makes us less and less powerful as individuals, and as a people.

Oh, I forgot, I have to add this for this thread: :eyes:

I never before made the connection between power and freedom, though - that is brilliant.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #85
94. i've been finding that "freedom" is impossible to define -- power seems better suited as a measure
of political health. the founders gave us power and gave us some tools to hold on to it. we were doing okay until fairly recently. if jefferson or madison were to come back tomorrow they'd be PISSED.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #85
102. You can call it learned helplessness, too. nt
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #102
117. good one!
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
46. Best Damn Post In A Long Time
Thank you for putting this so well.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. thanks -- it's been pointed out that i might not have connected the last dot...
i'm focusing on our *loss of power* as necessary and sufficient for having a serious discussion about "what next." -- that, we don't need to argue over *loss of freedom* in order to take action.

it was pointed out to me that loss of freedom usually follows loss of power in short order. so, while my intention was to applaud discussion of "what next," i might have painted too rosy a picture with regard to liberty. we shall see.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
52. "Freedom is nothing without POWER"


:toast:

K&R.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. freedom's just another word for...
having the power to kick ass.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
53. It Kinda Snuck Up On Us
didn't it? That's why there are so many in denial of what's going on.

What can we do to take back our power when there's so many in denial? :shrug:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. i think we need to get back to our founders' ideas -- that oligarchy is antithetical to democracy
this is a BASIC populist message that (i think) has the power to transcend political stripe. have the

we also have to address the "theocratic" threat, by standing firm in the cultural sphere. this is one area where the blogosphere can really make headway. the battlefield of the "culture war" is here.

we have the responsibility to jump into the debate wherever oligarchy and theocracy are being thrust upon is. right now the oligarchs and theocrats have synergy. we have to cut off that power. by asserting our own power in this battle, we will begin to reclaim that power for us, The People.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #56
87. BINGO
their words are radical, and they were radical

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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
54. Our problem is that we've lost our POWER, not our FREEDOM.
Hello! What did Howard Dean say that had so many people excited about his candidacy? (Besides being against the Iraq war) "You have the power!!!" Over and over and over again, he was reminding, and inciting the grassroots to exercise their right to representation that listens to the people.

And what happened to him? Media assassination, assisted by "leaders" of the Democratic party.

I fear it's going to take economic meltdown before enough people will be sufficiently motivated to regain their power in this country. And it won't be pretty.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. interesting point -- our leadership isn't giving us the message that "we have the power..."
rather, we are being told that were it not for a legal street address, we'd be arrested. Howard Dean disrupted the "leave the power to us" message broadcasted overtly and covertly by our leadership over the years. he was thusly ripped a new one.

our leaders' power should never be held in opposition to ours' as constituents -- but that's exactly the conflict that has emerged in the last 5, 10, 20 (?) years.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
82. I will argue though that we surrendered that power
to the chattering classes and the specialists, we forgot the main message from the founding fathers

WE are the government, and in order to recover that, we need to get involve

It benefits those who believe we are the rabble that we don't get involved

In fact, I'll argue, today voting, even with all the problems, is a revolutionary act
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
59. well said nb
I have been thinking about this for some time. It is here NOW and many are ignoring the signs daily. Cognitive dissonance? Perhaps. The more that realize it is here now the better to do something about it. First by not voting for more of the same Duopoly we now have.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. maybe it's like the denial we see on the face of Larry Craig's wife -- she's too invested
in her position (wife of power) to allow the truth of his behavior seep into the conscious part of her psyche. her position depends on his.


likewise, we've too long allowed our position as rank and file Dems to depend on the standing of our elected leadership. we HAVE TO call them on their bullshit when they abuse our support, or else (keeping with my strained metaphor) we are no better than Mrs. Larry Craig publicly supporting a sham marriage while the hubster cruises man-tail in airport bathrooms.

yikes. i just "went" with it. apologies. :evilgrin:

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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
60. I'm reading The Assault on Reason
Gore knows what's up and discusses this very thing. I cried the other day after reading it, because it was like "Someone with money and the resulting power actually gets it and understands and is on our side."

I haven't finished it yet, but I think he thinks the solution lies in what we're doing right now - discussing ideas freely and equally online. I've got his Current site, http://current.com/, bookmarked and will be looking over it more.

I feel like there's hope. For the first time since 2000, I feel hope.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Al Gore is almost mystically idealistic about the power of the internet
to return power to the people. i am too.

i think the reason we're so fanatical about him (out here in DU-land) is that he purports to return the power to the people. he doesn't speak it as freely as Howard Dean once did, but the message is there.

when we hold him up as a sort of hero of the Dem party, it's not because we want him to come and fix everything -- it's b/c he bears the promise of a democracy returned to its rightful owners.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
61. Brava
:applause:

Brava

We're there already.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. we really shouldn't be eager for it to get *any worse* !!
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #64
126. Understatement
"Worse" is not "nearer the day our power will be restored" as some very twisted up activists seem to have argued over the years. Worse is worse -- is even less power than we have now.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
65. the power of one
:tifoilhat: :eyes:

How much power should a small group of boisterous fanatics have? The only way we progressives have power is by increasing the number of our supporters.

Admittedly, this is just my opinion, but I think the way to increase the number of our supporters is through the calm transmission of information. Hysteria and hyperbole are not all that effective. Omigod. It's already fascism! It's genocide! Everybody who does not agree with me is a wilfully ignorant, a$$hole idiot, "good Hungarian", etc.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. so, i'm a "boisterous fanatic"? -- how so?
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #65
90. I used to believe as you do, sadly I no longer can, if we continue to be passive
we have lost.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
74. DAMN GOOD POST!!
You said, exactly what I have been thinking for a very long time.THANK YOU
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #74
89. i've been thinking a lot about pragmatism lately -- seems like we've been
spinning our wheels and the loss of power explains that. the chorus imploring that we ignore loss of liberty might have a point. lets rather focus on loss on power, asserting ourselves into the political process at the very place of crises of liberty. seems logical. natural.

we want/need the power to be heard. we want/need the power to communicate without apology, arrest or retraction.

we'll know we're getting our groove back when we can be heard without apology, arrest or retraction.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
77. My answer to one question of yours
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 10:47 PM by SimpleTrend
"So, can someone please tell me what freedom it is that you are afraid of losing?"

I lost it already, I was about 15, I was unjustly expelled from a fundamental Christian military academy, and I lost my faith in others: in others' honesty, in educators' integrity, in my parents, in fairness, indeed, even in justice itself.

Just waiting for the seconds to tick by, since that time. I'm almost ~50 now. Just a little while longer.... C'est la vie.

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. maybe you could also see that as the acquiring of freedom(s) --
freedom *from* the Christian Military academic culture. Freedom from expecting integrity from elders. Freedom from expecting fairness.

much sorrow in my life came from expecting too much from people i looked up to. i'm still trying to free myself of that.

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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #81
88. Thank you for your kind words,
they are wiser than they may appear to others.

I think much of my political outrage centers around promises made in our founding documents that today are more often than not mere hollow promises of the intent at the time they were written, the shadows remaining from a prior time. Those documents are also elders, in a sense. I'm still conflicted about them, do they have any remaining substance at all?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #88
96. i wonder how they're teaching american history now in school, b/c my experience
all thru the years was complete hero-worship. the founders created the most amazing thing ever and somehow public school in the 70s did a bang-up job of instilling an appreciation for this. the assaults to the constitution seem equivalent to throwing darts at the Mona Lisa. it's unthinkable and revolting.

in school we were taught we werre given this democracy to protect. what a shitty job we've done.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
80. K&R
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NoGodsNoMasters Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
83. Good points.
I think the problem is multifaceted, first, while all this bad shit is happening the media keeps inundating us with images of upper-upper-middle-class happy people having a blast. Protests, poverty, unemployment, seem invisible. Also it's been so gradual, if it was all at once people would freak, but gradually over time they don't notice or don't care. It brings to mind a famous quotation "First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out. Then, they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out. Then they came for the trade-unionists, and I did not speak out. And then they came for me." .....And a not-so-famous quotation, from Star Wars 4, that I think of when i see people clapping at Bush's speeches.. "This is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause." Ultimately, I think it comes down to enough people waking up and getting involved, because we are being led down the primrose path to oblivion.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #83
114. ""This is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause."
the summation i've seen yet. gave me chill bumps.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
84. Regarding Secrecy
Edited on Fri Oct-19-07 11:51 PM by lvx35
Surveillance is a major part of what's going on, what's keeping people intimidated. To live under surveillance without knowing is one thing, but to be made aware of it is quite another, and that's what's happening here. Its like Bush making a point to reveal that torture is taking place. Its not that its being done, its that he wants you to KNOW its being done.

The point with surveillance isn't so much to actually watch you, but in letting you KNOW that you're being watched, to try to convince you that you are powerless because of this fact...In other words, they want you to believe that secrecy is power, and because you don't worship it like they do, you are powerless. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reality is that YOU have power over secrecy, because you can freely speak the truth while the secretive can't. So don't buy the bullshit by being secretive yourself, or shutting the hell up because that's precisely what they want you to do. When 200,000,000 people in America wake up to the bullshit, its not YOU who will have needed to conceal your activities...but they never will wake up to the bullshit until more people stop living in fear of each other and start telling the truth!!!
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #84
91. internal vs external control -- if you can make people censor themselve, you avoid
having to put your foot down.

i had a professor who illustrated this as... parents regulating teenagers' dating behavior whereby you forbid your daughter to date -- OR, you can fill her head with all kinds of horror stories about boys and cars (hellfire damnation, abortion, herpes) and sit back and relax knowing she will be home before midnight every Friday night. icky illustration, but point well taken.



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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #91
93. Right...I just feel like if we could stop beating ourselves we'd be a force to be reckoned with.
That's really the first step, freeing our minds from fear entirely.

Great post by the way, that really hit the spot as far as being the idea we needed for unifying. I hope you keep on posting.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
97. Freedom?
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 01:10 AM by undergroundpanther
Freedom from Abusers of power. Freedom from bullies and greed cronies,freedom from con men, freedom from authoritarians, narcissists and psychopaths,and these degenerate personalities having any control over me directly with force or indirectly with social engineering belief engineering, NLP,or any other kinds of manipulation .Freedom from these evil pieces of shit exploiting stuff about me like my mind,my past, my emotions,my life,my time or my body or anything I do or make.

I want freedom from assholes that abuse power to mask their own incompetence or psychopathy.
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lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
104. it's already too late...
by the time the "mainstream public" figures out what is going on, we will be at war with china and russia over iran. whether it be a military or financial war, either way the dollar will be worthless. the lone super power will crumble before the rest of the planet in record fashion, just as every single other empire has crumbled in the past.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
105. Thank you
from New Orleans
















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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
107. K&R to Powers of Ten! A very welcome and honest post.
We have to rid ourselves of "Vichy" representatives of both parties.

I agree that the "looming disaster" has already made a soft landing. After a rousing post like yours (this one is right to the point and fearless, perhaps more than some have been), we are then faced with the eternal question of "What can we do?"


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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
108. You Are So Right
I have been calling it our loss of freedom but loss of power is the correct term. Great post, thanks.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
111. America 2007 is Germany 1930

America 2007 is Germany 1930

By Norman D. Livergood

We who live in the post-World War II period possess an immensely valuable symbol, even if we don't understand it or use it effectively: the example of Nazi Germany.

"The German experiment, except to those who are its victims, is particularly interesting, and, like the offer of a strong man to let himself be vivisected, should make a great contribution to political science. For the Germans are the most gifted and most highly educated people who ever devoted the full strength of a modern state to stopping the exchange of ideas; they are the most highly organized people who ever devoted all the coercive power of government to the abolition of their own intellectual life; they are the most learned people who ever pretended to believe that the premises and the conclusion of all inquiry may be fixed by political fiat."

Walter Lippmann. (1936), The Good Society

SNIP

The 2004 election revealed that many American citizens are as intellectually and morally incompetent as the Germans in 1930. Such incompetence and ignorance always lead to tyranny. The United States is exactly at the same point in national degradation as the German nation in the 1930s when Hitler assumed absolute power and began his regime of mass murder and war crimes against the people of the world.

We've been conditioned to see Germany under Hitler as an unquestionably horrible example of dictatorial tyranny and inhuman barbarity--and to see our present American culture as completely opposite to that of Nazi Germany. And we like to think that if a tyranny such as that in Germany under the Nazi regime were present and growing in America we'd unquestionably be able to see it.

So it's a shock when we realize: most people living in Nazi Germany didn't see the tyranny! They thought it was the best time of their lives!

SNIP

How could Germans living under Hitler's National Socialism not have seen what it was? How did their lack of social and personal awareness make them blind to their reality?

How could Americans now possibly be living under a creeping dictatorship and not know it? And how could we not only not see a police state condition but actually think we're living in complete freedom?

Because most of us don't WANT to know what's going on. We've lost the ability to think critically about political, economic, and social dangers confronting us.

http://www.hermes-press.com/germany1930.htm




Brainwashing America

By Norman D. Livergood

The puppet Bush regime is using new, aggressive forms of brainwashing to change the very way Americans think and feel.

This is the psychological dimension of the demonic cabal's general onslaught against American workers, just as the "war on terrorism" is the military dimension and corporate crime and tax cuts for the rich comprise the economic dimension.

We are living under the beginning stages of a military dictatorship in precisely the same way that 1930s Germans suffered under the Nazi regime.

As in the case of Nazi Germany, state-sponsored propaganda (brainwashing) is a vital part of the Bush regime's strategy.

SNIP

In an earlier article, I reviewed the varied aspects of personality profiling and simulation. While serving as Head of the Artificial Intelligence Department at the U.S. Army War College, 1993-1995, I conducted studies on profiling, psychological programming, and brainwashing. I explored and developed personality simulation systems, an advanced technology used in military war games, FBI profiling, political campaigning, and advertising. Part of my discovery was that:

* unenlightened human minds are combinations of infantile beliefs and emotional patterns

* these patterns can be simulated in profiling systems

* these profiling systems can be used to program and control people

Personality simulation systems are being used to create political campaigns that apply voter profiles to control their voting behavior. TV commercials and programs use personality simulation to profile viewers to control their purchasing and viewing behaviors. And sophisticated propaganda and brainwashing techniques are being used by the Bush junta to keep American citizens under control.

http://www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm

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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #111
112. Makes your skin crawl.
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Bryan Sacks Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #111
118. What happened to these links?
Any idea, Johny? There is a stupid spaceholding ad there.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #118
137. The links are working ok for me. Not sure why you have a problem with them n/t
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #111
123. Chilling - This Is Exactly What Is Happening Today
From your Livergood link:

"To the Germans in Mayer's study, each occasion of Nazi violence was worse than the last, but only a little worse. So they waited for the one shocking event, thinking that they would join with others if or when it happened. But as the violence escalated, no one rose up to condemn the concentration camps and general oppression. No one wanted to act alone, and when a mass uprising failed to occur, the common people just let events take their course. They progressively lost the ability to understand the horror of Nazism and the will to oppose it.

Similarly, we don't see the growing fascism in America and the world because we don't want to see it and because it happens somewhat gradually, which makes it almost imperceptible to those who don't think critically. Everything in your society--Nazi Germany or twenty-first century America--seems so ordinary."
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
113. I do not feel free to go to any peaceful demonstration without facing the very real possiblity
of being tasered, beaten, arrested. We definitely do not have free speech if we face abuse in order to use it. Most will keep silent. And the more abuse that is used, the more we will be silenced.

One of the best posts I've read here on DU. Thanks. It is much needed.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #113
116. i was very active in college -- it was my REAL education -- i was AMAZED
when i saw kids at protests, because i always thought the number one reason why people shut down their activism was b/c they had kids. then it dawned on me that of course people would bring kids to protest -- what better education is there?

NOW, if i had kids, with all the dangers presented by the state, i could not put my kids in harms' way.

there just wasn't the threat of violence in the 80s. if there was a civil disobedience, it was planned and everyone not wanting to get arrested cleared out. we don't have that security anymore. on the video from the LAPD melee, there're clearly beating a tweenager at one point. holy shit. what has happened to my country.

as to being silenced -- i went thru an awful divorce lately and my political posting on DU became and issue. i was being threatened that my political views would sully my rep with the judge. the ex tried to introduce posts again and again. it was kabuki theater -- just freaking upsidedown world. for about a year i have bit my lip and hung back from posting. self censorship.

then, a really funny happened -- even after the divorce was over and i was "safe" to post, i had trouble feeling safe about it. this is my first real, solid essay -- take no prisoners.

freedom is fragile and requires either personal power OR nothing left to lose. i'm falling into the latter category these days.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #116
122. and here i thought it was only big brother we had to worry about.
i would've never thought of posts being used against you in divorce proceedings.
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RebelSansCause Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
115. very well said
now it is just time to roll up our sleeves and get to work. time to drive out this corporate aristocracy and put the people and their true representatives back in place.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
119. This brilliant post should be a sticky IMO.
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iheartobama Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #119
120. I'm moving to Canada
It's our only hope!
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #120
129. Hi there, let me welcome you to DU

Cool avatar. What does it mean to you?

You heart Obama! Cool. What do you love about Obama?
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
125. excellent read! permission to spread it around?
thank you for sorting out what has been rambling around unorganized in my head lately.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #125
135. permission granted -- totally.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
127. Too late to recommend, but kicking anyway and bookmarking.
This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time. The difference between losing our freedom and losing our power is a subtle one, but a very, VERY important one.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
128. booga
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
130. Excellent post
I sat here in Portland and witnessed what was done to the people of New Orleans. I sat here at my computer--in shock and horror--and watched and read what was occurring in real time. I posted very little during that time mostly because I was shaken to the core at what I was witnessing.

When speaking about NOLA I have used the phrase "atrocities committed against American citizens, on American soil, by the American government" and meant it not to be a slogan of nationalism, or some general rant against government, or some how we are better than others in foreign lands that have suffered similar crimes/injustices, but because it should shake us all to the core because it is happening here.

I came here nearly blind to what was going on but now my eyes are wide open. Thank you for one of the best posts that I have read. You are one of the DU gems. :thumbsup:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #130
136. thank you -- very much.
the days during katrina were very difficult here -- the best and worst came to the surface all at once.

"atrocities committed against American citizens, on American soil, by the American government" -- this is exactly what saw, it wasn't the first time tho -- the great hurricane of '28 in west Palm Beach saw the exact same atrocities committed by americans against americans. in one area of west palm, 700 black citizens' bodies were buried in an unmarked ditch -- there were bodies everywhere. black bodies weren't retreived. book recommendation: Black Cloud -- the deadly hurricane of 1928, by eliot kleinberg. here's a link to amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Cloud-Great-Hurricane-1928/dp/0786713860/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/002-3516807-2396818?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192982745&sr=1-3
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Gonzo Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
132. Fantastic post... you effing nailed it, my dear!
Damn, I'm too late to recommend. I will flog myself for enjoying the early part of my weekend (Fri & Sat camping trip) frolicking under the brightly colored trees.

:yourock:


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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
133. cannot rec, but will kick
Thank you.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
134. 2 Thumbs up .....a Snap! and a Yes!
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