I've tried very hard to be patient, and to ignore the anti-Dem threads on this board

[CatWoman]

but goddammit, enough is enough!!!

Mukasey is the last straw for me.

The senate Democrats are fucking worthless.

There, I've said it!!!!

[debbierlus]

1. I have been writing them & trying to tell them, they are losing their base

They don't believe we will go anywhere....I mean, really, what will we do? Vote Republican?

And, I tell them, of course, we would never do that. But, we would run another candidate against them & get them thrown out that way.

And, no money to the democratic party or their campaigns until they friggin grow a set.

[burythehatchet]

5. you err in thinking we are their base. The DLC has convinced

then that they have the same base as Bush.

[tiptoe]

52. Undo the Election Fraud of millions suppressed, and the DLC becomes "Un-done." DLC is a "fallback",

a "Half Ass Fallback" while Election Fraud continues:

Historical Elections — 1988-2004 Election Calculator Model — The Submerging Democratic Majority

The Democrats actually won all FIVE elections by an average 8.9 MILLION vote margin. That’s the True Emerging Democratic Majority. Don't believe it? Run the numbers yourself.

This analysis is based on the 1988-2004 Election Calculator model. The model first estimates the number of returning voters by adjusting prior election recorded vote totals for uncounted votes and mortality. An estimated turnout percentage is applied to this value. As preliminary NEP vote shares were not available for 1988-2000, Final National Exit Poll shares (which were matched to the recorded vote) were assumed for the base case. In 2004, however, preliminary 12:22am "pristine" vote shares were available, so these were used instead.

The model used Census-reported total votes cast as the base case assumption. The pool of potential returning voters was assumed to include all who cast votes, rather than just those whose votes were recorded. Uncounted vote rates based on the Census are much higher than the assumed 3.0% rate in prior models. Another assumption change is the mortality rate. Annual voter mortality, estimated as 1.22-1.30%, is more accurate than prior models which assumed the total US 0.87% mortality rate.

The new base case assumptions had the effect of increasing Democratic vote shares compared to prior models. For example, the Election Calculator indicates that Kerry won by 53.5- 45.5%, a 10 million vote margin. The prior True Vote Model had Kerry winning by 52.6-46.4%.
...

Election Fraud Analysis

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. People will look for third party or stay home

the dems are pissing off hte base to the point that they will LOOSE

I ain't kidding here

[Hepburn]

2. K&R and a HUGH amen from me!

Ditto to the max! :grr:

Gutless bunch of BSers, IMO.

[itsrobert]

3. I'm glad you finally admitted Hillary is worthless

Way to Go! So that leaves you with Richardson, Dennis K., Gravel, and Edwards to choose from.

[CatWoman]

25. I'm not about to single Hillary out, alone

get real here.....

[Poiuyt]

4. Thom Hartmann has a good strategy for the weak Congress

I can't remember all the details nor speak it as well as he, but basically he said we should tell the Dems in Congress to get some backbone, vote a progressive agenda, and WE WILL BACK THEM UP. That's the key. Make sure they know that we will support them if they vote correctly (and I think most Dems in Congress are basically liberal, they're just afraid to show it).

[Hubert Flottz]

8. "they're just afraid"

We ask for change in 2006 and we got cowards.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. This disfunction is predictive

from history

That is why it is scary

[opihimoimoi]

24. COWARDLY TRAITORS iz whot dey are...DiFi and Schumer have sold the Dem Party out.

They have become Torture Whores...able and willing to let torture go on

Are we Americans WIMPs/...so fearful we allow TORTURE? Who then are we?

Them 2 assholes voting yes with the Pubs, they disgust me no end.....

If there was a time to flip...now is the time

other wise ...its a flop...the dem party will flop

[Hubert Flottz]

44. DiFi and Schumer are hooked on the Bush Nazi Kool-Aide

The DLC Gang had better wake up and smell the chimneys!

"Never Again" hasn't kept the spooks away...they're back and they look just as harmless and cuddly as Adolf did at first. The sheep always think the wolf is cute at first.

First Nancy talked about what a fine guy Bush was and now Diane...the White House Kool Aide party has wiped out our not so fearless democratic leader's short term memory. Nice guys don't do Abu Ghraibs and shit like that. Nice guys don't let hundreds drown in American cities. Nice guys don't let kids who need to be in hospitals lay around sick and dying, for kicks, or to prove that they are the big boss man.

I always heard that you are known by the company you keep...look who DiFi and Nancy have been hanging out with.

[sandnsea]

6. It's pretty dang bad

There's about 10 Senators who are worth anything at all. Things are pretty bleak, I agree.

[opihimoimoi]

7. Me too. I was hanging in there but when Schumer/DiFi went Pro Torture

by voting for Mukasey...that was it...

Were they set up??? Who cares...they voted for Torture...period....thus sullying the Dem Party and it once good name...

Now, because of these particular 2....WE LOOK LIKE SHIT and worse, we send a message that is OK to TORTURE,,,including any of OUR TROOPS if/when captured.

I guess the revalation of abu ghraib and its excesses has been forgotten....by us....

Either the DEMs who stood by and let them fuckers vote yes, do saomething or they will watch the destruction of the Party....

Now is the TIME....There is no waiting anymore...time is of the essence

Or we be like Germany 1935 1945.....

Come Cat, we go drink.....I am sick of them 2 assholes...write them off already

[Hubert Flottz]

9. Zell Miller Democrats

We've been Zold Out Again!

[opihimoimoi]

22. Fuck Yeah...Vee got sold out by them Zellesque traitors...History will record their names

so them ETs coming to Earth 58673632514132 years from now find out who fucked up....

Important Planetary issues/concerns plague Humanity and our so called leaders mock us with moot shit....WTF? do we not have peeps that can actually think?

[Hubert Flottz]

43. Diane drank the Zyclon flavored Kool-Aid over at Dumbya's place.

Chuck always was a fucking worm like Joe Lieberman. Hell Diane and Chuck got pissed at the dems in Joe's state when they wanted rid of that suckass, bush kissing little bastard. FUCK the DLC and everyone in it!

[opihimoimoi]

46. They been nipping at the XYLENE when no one was a lookin...look at um...ya can tell by their votes

They always go for the RED

And I saw the picture of Di and W in Cali walkin through da ashes of the brush fires...they had clothes on and were holding hands...Laura must be PISSED

Chuckie has gone unnerground since yesterday...prolly in the under ground stall tappin shoes....wishing

[Hubert Flottz]

47. Chuckie's in love...

With another country...he doesn't love America.

"I don't believe what Chuck's saying to me
This is something I gotta see Is he here?
Look in the townhall Is he here?
Look in the unionhall Is he here?
No, he don't come here no more

[BeHereNow]

10. Their vote is the same as if Gonzales had remained. So it IS business as usual no matter who is in

POWER.

Protecting war criminals is the bottom line, and yes,
it is now official.
We, the people, no longer live in a two party system.

BHN

[CatWoman]

26. LOL

I'm already there :beer:

:hi:

[opihimoimoi]

30. Yup,,,whad else is there to do....

:beer:

Live good while ya can...enjoy what we can...and prepare for dark days acoming....

[H2O Man]

11. Just as long

as we recognize that the people in congress are NOT the democratic party ..... they are only members, just as each of us is a member. And truth be told: they are not as good of democrats as the patriots found at the grass roots.

[BeHereNow]

17. Will the real democrats please stand up?

The trouble with the fact you have stated is this-
The "members" in Congress are fertilized by the corporations.
The grass roots are sprayed into oblivion with weed killer
manufactured by the corporations.
How, exactly, under the current gardening conditions,
do the grass roots democrats take the party back?

BHN

[H2O Man]

18. How does one

rebuild an old mansion with serious structural damage? From the foundation up. We should be investing our time, money, and energy on the foundation, rather than giving it to the fools who think that all that matters is their comfortable suite on the top floors.

[BeHereNow]

19. So can we start by sweeping the debris in the top floor out?

HOW do we get rid of the corporate controlled "representatives"
when our voting system is rigged?

That is the only hope I see- cleaning house and
replacing the existing puppets with REAL democrats.
How do we do that????

BHN

[H2O Man]

21. We have to

make the foundation strong enough that we can safely go up to the next floor, and sweep it out.

People are discouraged. They have reason to be. The problems are real. But to paraphrase a 15th century poet-warrior: We are at times strong/ at times weak/ but we have at no time lacked heroes.

When a group is up against it -- and we are -- then every ordinary citizen who takes steps to protect the common good becomes an extraordinary citizen. We do not lack heroes: they are here, in our midst.

This is a hard time, and people are discouraged. But we are going to keep up the struggle, and we will win. I would not say that if it were not true.

[BeHereNow]

23. You know I respect you very much-

however, I must tell you that I do not hold much hope
that our numbers a sufficient to carry out the task you
describe.
I do hope that you are right and I am wrong though...

BHN:grouphug:

[H2O Man]

29. I understand.

One of my dearest friends told me about a dream she had. She experienced the horror of the war in a way that the conscious mind cannot. It doesn't matter if it was as a person of one ethnic group or another. People are dying. Hate is expanding. Fear and doubt go hand-in-hand with suffering.

When we are in doubt, and find ourselves depressed about the future, we need to do things to take care of ourselves. I like to listen to Martin's speeches, or read his books. It makes me feel better to commune with King.

Sometimes, I like to hear him read part of James Russell Lowell, the "noble bard" he so often paraphrased:

Truth forever on the scaffold
And lies forever on the throne
Yet that scaffold sways the future
And behind the dim unknown
Stands God within the shadow
Keeping watch upon his own.

Martin told the Truth. He went to that mountaintop. Trust his vision.

[bridgit]

59. umm, actually, i've seen here in my town, where structural compromise has taken place...

and, in particular, where 'grandfathered rights & easements' are at stake; the structure is removed of habitation even at what may seem the comfy, upper suites. After permits are sought & secured, the structure is tagged as being in a state of historical renewal, with compromised load bearing walls & cross systems identified and shored-up as per code; the siding sometimes removed down to an allowable, i think it is: 75%, to maintain structural 'grandfathered', or historical status. And much of this occurring before the structure is only then lifted gently into the air so that the foundation can be accessed in greater detail, addressed; perhaps even replaced anew, again as per code...

I appreciate greatly your acknowledgment of the work to be performed at the foundation = the grass roots, for which there is no substitute being so vital a component of a system that reaches up to the architectural accents, filigreed names & American Folk Art Weather Vane that maybe still indicates wind direction...at least hopefully so,

Out near me as well, at UCD, they came up with a farm/orchard implement some years back that pretty basically 'walks' up to a tree with an 'eccentric claw', grabs hold and just sort of rumbles the produce not firmly stemmed down & out of the tree...even the bad stuff, leaving the trunk intact to carry on and do it's thing.

I say, regarding repairs to a system as broke as the one we see before us; that repairs may do well to ensue at the first perceived-as-available point of access or entry. If that is the roof that is fine. If that is the foundation that is fine. If that is in-through the un-hinged French Doors of a crumbling, 2nd floor veranda that is fine. There is little further doubt this system is in need of repair.

[TechBear_Seattle]

13. Anyone want to remind me again of how the parties are substantially different? n/t

[Orangepeel]

49. they have more assholes than we do

doesn't mean that we don't have any, and most of ours are great on some issues and assholes on others.

But most of theirs are assholes on most issues.

[TahitiNut]

15. Keep hope alive

:silly:


:loveya:

[H2O Man]

16. Keep Hope Alive!

Thank you.

[CatWoman]

27. Jessie, is that you?

:hi:

[MADem]

20. Way to GENERALIZE, there!!!!!

Didja buy that broad brush at the GOP Store?

[CatWoman]

28. Didja buy that lame joke at Dennis Miller's store?

[Disturbed]

32. Here I go again. Progressives need to join the Green Party.

Conservative Dems have dominated the Dem Party to the extent that Progressives no longer
have any power. Kucinich should join the Green Party & all other Progressives should do so, as well.
As long as the Green Party is viewed as being too weak to garner Natl. reps in the House &/or Senate, the two party, lesser of evils will dominate. There are solutions to the stalemate.

The Electoral System

Repeal the 12th amendment, reforming the electoral college, standardizing party qualifications in the states, qualified and free access to public airwaves.

1.Uniform Ballot Access
2.Loosen Third Party Ballot Restrictions
3.Universal Voter Registration
4.Election Day Holiday
5.Equal Media Access/Debate Inclusion
6.Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)
7.Secure Voting Machines
8.Public Campaign Financing
9.Direct Popular Vote Election of the President
10.Congressional Representation

THE GREENS/GREEN PARTY USA (G/GPUSA) - When people talk about "the Green Party" in the US, they are likely NOT talking about this entity. The G/GPUSA is the older, much smaller, and more stridently leftist of the two Green parties. While the GPUSA also nominated Nader for President back in 2000, Nader rejected the G/GPUSA nomination (while embracing the other Green party, listed above).

Prominent Nader campaign strategist Jim Hightower described the two Green factions as follows in 2001: "There are two Green party organizations -- the whose nomination Ralph accepted and the much smaller one ... on the fringes ... all sorts of damned-near-communistic ideas." Some in the G/GPUSA protested that Hightower's comments were a bit unfair -- but read the G/GPUSA 2000 Platform (which remains the current G/GPUSA platform) and decide for yourself.

The G/GPUSA largely emphasizes direct action tactics over traditional electoral politics. A majorty of the G/GPUSA delegates and large number of party activists quit the group and bolted to the larger Green Party of the US in 2001 (forming an informal leftist caucus within the Green Party). The small splinter group remaining within the G/GPUSA are more dogmatically Marxist.

The G/GPUSA maintain formal local affiliates only Chicago, St. Louis and Philadelphia. The G/GPUSA has fielded a few state and federal candidates over the years -- often running them in primaries against candidates affiliated with the larger Green Party of the US. Related G/GPUSA links include Synthesis/Regeneration (party magazine), and Green Politics (quarterly newspaper).

[creeksneakers2]

77. The Greens will split again and again

The basic idea of the Greens is, instead of trying to change the group they are in,like the Democrats, to refuse to compromise and form a new group when the old one doesn't suit.

But the Greens are a group too. So if the same idea persists, as soon as there is disagreement the groups will split again.

There is no group without loyalty, and loyalty demands compromise.

[kenfrequed]

82. Well... I understand

I do agree with the need for 3rd, 4th, and 5th parties.

I don't think it is constructive to bolt from the Democratic party at this time. I think progressives should recruit and mount primary challenges against any Dino they can.

Having supported Green candidates in the past and even supported Nader in 2000 I think it is important to occasionally work strategically. I also think that the progressives in the Democratic party let themselves get too easily bullied by the old guard and the DLC crowd. And some idiots just join up with them.

In short stick with it and stay bold. Be a troublemaker and bring all your damned friends and neighbors to every party meeting at every level. Take over your local caucus and pack the place with your friends. Network with other progressives to make sure you make it up as far as you can.

[MADem]

45. Yeah, that's where you did buy that broad brush...

Plainly. If all you can come up with is that old toad.

Dennis Miller? How LAME!!

That poor fool is so far past his sell-by date he is almost a collectible RELIC!

Kischy in the extreme!

[CatWoman]

48. Oh,believe me -- it can get much lamer

but you already knew that, didn't you?

It appears you made a wrong turn here. Lost or something?

[babylonsister]

31. You've been more patient than I have. Pathetic, aren't (some of them)? nt

[Judge_Mental]

33. Can you get a Witness?

Yes you can sister!

[deutsey]

64. Amen...testify!

[Terri S]

34. With taking impeachment off the table we heard, 'keep hope alive'

With the vote on the Military Commissions Act, we heard 'keep hope alive'.

With the caving in to *'s vetoe(s), we heard 'keep hope alive'.

With the endless investigations and ignored letters leading nowhere, we heard 'keep hope alive'.

With the votes on the FISA extension, we heard 'keep hope alive'.

I'm sorry...it's been a long 9 months or so..I'm forgetting a lot of disappointments where we've said to 'keep hope alive'.

Used to be, we were Democrats because of what the party stood for. Now we're expected to just be loyal 'Democrats' no matter what they stand for... if you can even figure out what that is anymore.

I still have hope that one day we'll elect leaders that truly represent a change from the Republican mindset. We have a few. Not nearly enough. Mukasey should be an outrage to everyone here. Hell, he should be an outrage to any decent human being in this country regardless of party affiliation.

[kenfrequed]

84. Take over the party!!

I suggest going to every meeting you can in an effort to take over the party.

Show up to your caucuses and push.

Bring all your friends to the meetings.

If you take 5 of your neighbors to your local caucus, you will probably advance to the next level almost automatically.

Pass Resoultions to affect state party platform and make some noise.

[ozone_man]

35. Why are you so patient?

"Toleration is not the opposite of intolerance but the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms: the one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, the other of granting it." - Thomas Paine

If we don't speak up, then our silence is an endorsement of the status quo. We need to elect Democrats that are real Democrats, which we do through grass roots activism. Both of my senators voted against his confirmation, but they are in the "Democratic wing" of the party.

[Mike03]

36. I agree: A Huge Disappointment

I agree with everything you are saying. It IS becomming more and more difficult to defend the actions of some senators who I previously regarded as political heroes.

The bad news seems to just snowball. And now Schumer... The mind boggles. I thought he was one of the Good Guys; I even thought he would make a good president, but, well...

It's like the X-Files trademark: I want to believe. But it's getting damned hard to believe they are doing EVERYTHING they possibly can. I know they have a very hard job right now, but at least make some effort to do the right thing.

[gateley]

37. If I understand it correctly, the majority of Dems will be voting against it -

Schumer and Feinstein (slimes) will be supporting the appointment.

How can we say ALL the Dems are worthless?

[creeksneakers2]

78. Good point! n/t

[femrap]

38. Yep, join the crowd (unfortunately)...

it's a fu*king travesty, isn't it? WTF is going on? Has * threatened their grandchildren or what???

We are the soviet union.

And it's only half of the Senate Democrats that are worthless...we still have a few fighters there..but maybe they're just playing their Kabuki roles???

Big shit is ready to hit the fan....get a raincoat!

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

39. happy birthday!

a few hours early. it'll be mine, too.

[CatWoman]

42. and we both get an hour extra sleep!!

:)

:hi:

[MissDeeds]

40. It's hard to keep the faith, isn't it?

I sometimes feel that the party has left us, their base. What the hell happens to our elected Dems once they get to DC?

I'm reminded of Hawthorne's words "Men cease being men in becoming politicians."

[spanone]

41. i've tried too CatWoman. i'm truly, completely pissed.

:argh:

[lonestarnot]

50. As the worm is fucking squirming in place.

:puke:

[Warren Stupidity]

51. Welcome to our nightmare.

Now that you have accepted the horror show as it is, what do we do about it?

[Jade Fox]

53. I hit that same wall....

when Pelosi criticized Pete Stark's comments a couple of weeks ago.

[davsand]

54. I will keep on fighting, but I'm not sure who will be with me in the trenches.

This most recent meltdown has just kind of put the topper on what was already a stinking pile of crap that I call the Dem party.

I have had my fights locally--to the point that I hold office right now because a few local Republicans stood for me when my own party tried to kick me to the curb. I got cross-ways when I stood with local Labor against a Dem office holder who was abusing women in his office. I had been abused by that man, I had told them all what he was a year before (I told them in private and with every opening for them to fix it BEFORE it went public. They did nothing.) Once it went public they attacked ME (like I MADE him harass and abuse his female employees...)

Right now I am labeled as a "Bad Democrat" because I stood for women and union members. I'm sleeping at night, and I am not gonna run away and hide because I did nothing wrong. I say FUCK the local idiots--I'll work to take my local Dem party back to the point where we stand for something again. When I stood on a picket line protesting the abuser of women, it was not the Dems with me, it was my Labor brothers and sisters out there with me. THOSE are the people I want by my side when we take back the local party.

On a state level, Illinois has a Dem Governor, and Dems control the majority in both the Illinois House and Senate. Our illustrious Dems can't manage to pass a budget, but they can manage to over-ride the Governor's veto of a bill mandating a "moment of silence" every day in the classrooms of Illinois.

Now I get to the Dems at a national level...

Yep, thanks to Schumer and DiFi we now are a party that can't even find our moral compass when it comes to FUNDAMENTAL human rights. Forget about anything resembling access to health care or true equality for all--we can't even find the moral fiber to oppose torture. I doubt seriously that they could muster the stones to stand for a woman's right to choose or even for something resembling sanity on immigration or the environment.

I think my biggest realization in recent years (from local levels all the way up) has been that these people that I worked to elect share NONE (or very few) of my values. I dunno if I was duped by them directly or by the idea of "party support" but in either case I got sold a bill of goods--and I actually helped sell OTHER people on these lying sacks of shit! THEY have made me a part of their lies and I will NOT forgive that--EVER.

I know what I stand for. I know what I have taken the hits for and what issues I wear the scars for. I know that MY values are what I am comfortable with, and much beyond that I have NO freaking idea. I can't say I am a "Democrat" any more, because I refuse to be lumped in with the liars and the spineless. They don't get my energy, they don't get my money, they don't get my TIME. From here on out, I work for the people I KNOW.



Laura

[paulk]

55. what is the alternative to Mukasey?

what course of action should the Senate take concerning the Justice Department? The Attorney General?

It's an easy thing to say that what the Dems are doing is "fucking worthless", but what would you do instead?

Seriously.

Give me a strategy.

[baseballhead]

56. Yes

Exactly, what is the alternative choice?

[Hawkowl]

57. Reject and delay

Don't recess the Senate and allow any recess appointments. As John Dean states, (paraphrasing) trade the appointment of Mukasey for the appointment of an independent special prosecutor. The justice department has taken on an Orwellian cast. It should be called the spying and torture department.

We just can't throw up our hands and capitulate. Oppose. Fight. Refuse. Delay. These are proven strategies of a loyal opposition.

[ulysses]

58. here's a strategy:

Reject any and all nominees who refuse to acknowledge that waterboarding is torture, and keep doing it until Bush nominates someone who will or until he leaves office.

[CatWoman]

61. excellent strategery!!

:hi:

[ulysses]

62. see, you just think that because

you don't understand the intricacies of postmodern American governance, which clearly require that painfully clear moral issues must be overwhelmed by meaningless repetitions of the political equivalent of Vaudeville.

Of course, I don't either, so at least we have each other. :hi:

[deutsey]

65. Oh, but won't that make Bush and the Republicans mad?

:evilfrown:

[ulysses]

66. of course, and they'll call us names, too.

That's why I didn't call it "a strategy the party is likely to follow". :( :hi:

[deutsey]

71. Well, they do have an apology all prepared should they get all uppity again

:hi:

[ulysses]

75. that's only prudent, to have an escape plan

from your own principles. :D

[CatWoman]

67. Deuts!!!

:rofl:

:hi:

[deutsey]

72. Hi there, sweetheart

It's too bad we have to meet again under such frustrating circumstances...but since 2001 when haven't we met here under frustrating circumstances?

:loveya:

[crickets]

85. That's not just strategy -

It's the right thing to do.
:dem:

[CatWoman]

60. um, someone who isn't a fucking Bush tool?

I mean give me a break.

the man doesn't know that waterboarding is torture?

Why can't the democrats, as a whole, unite and say enough of this shit.

Torture is fucking torture. period. And our country should be on the side of human rights in that department.

period.

A suitable alternative, in this case, would be Mickey Mouse. Fuck, even Goofy would be better.

[Swamp Rat]

69. I vote for Minnie Mouse.

She's cute! :loveya:




I'm with you CatWoman! :hug:

[deutsey]

70. I think Goofy was declared an enemy combatant and sent to Guantanamo

I never did trust him...

:hi:

[CatWoman]

73. you're cracking me up here today!!!

:hi:

[paulk]

81. how do you do that?

That is not just a rhetorical question. How do you do that when Bush is the one who gets to make the nomination?

[davsand]

74. Stand firm against this "torture is ok" type crap. Demonstrate the Dems DO get it.

Right now DiFi and Schumer have just cut the legs out from under the Dem party and any ideals it claims to stand for. As of right NOW our party has no ability to demonstrate any commitment to human rights issues.

I have seen the threats of recess appointments and the discussions about how we "just don't GET" how politics works, but I am not buying that crap. seems to me that FORCING the asswipe in the WhiteHouse to make that recess appointment of an AG that supports torture probably does an awful lot to illustrate just what the Dems stand for and more importantly how we differ from the GOP.

Frankly, if you stop to think about it, a recess appointment would possibly put a wedge into the GOP because those GOP guys would have to either support torture and defend themselves in elections back home for doing so--or else they'd have to punk the WhiteHouse and condemn the appointment.

At this point that lack of unity in the Dems has left us with no clean way to illustrate how we differ from the GOP AND it has passed over an opportunity to drive a wedge in the GOP rank and file. Not too intelligent as far as a strategy, I'd say.

Plus, we just had two elected Dems who f***ing endorsed TORTURE in this country. I can't imagine why Dems anywhere in this country are not getting out the pitchforks and torches as we speak.


Laura

[paulk]

80. I think the better way for the Democrats to make clear their

position on waterboarding is the legislation being introduced by Biden that defines it as torture and makes it illegal. That would be a definitive vote, for both sides of the aisle.

I'm not sure that Bush even needs to make a recess appointment. I don't know what the process is there. As long as his nominees are rejected, can't Bush let the current acting AG continue to serve? The acting AG, a man name Peter Keisler, is a Bush crony, and is also currently obstructing investigations into contractor fraud in Iraq. Among other bad things, I'm sure. The point being - Bush is quite happy with the situation as it is.

http://indigentahole.blogspot.com/2007/09/acting-us-attorney-general-obstructing.html

Personally I don't see the Dems actions vis a vis Mukassey as an endorsement of torture so much as an acceptance of the lesser of two evils. Mukassey would be better than Keisler, and the chances of Bush sending up an appointment that will say that waterboarding is illegal is zero.

The torture issue can be decided in a Senate vote, as it should be.

[bridgit]

63. Look, it *must* be great!! You're some person back from wherever you come from...

You have the angles figured out back home, maybe running against some insect exterminator, a Mercedes?BMW/Caddy car dealership owner, real estate broker, sheriff, local weather man...whatever!! But there you are. You have won!! You now sit, by hook or crook, in The Congress of The United States of America...but then...

The check and the perks start rolling in and oh BTW the checks don't bounce past the raise you already see coming :thumbsup: So you go to and sit on some committees, maybe you care, maybe you don't; but you can't get your head all the way around whatever the hell it is they put in front of you in either event so you ponder beneath the din of America like a kid waiting for the clock to tic-toc tic-toc your ass out into summer vacation you ponder...bout that MaiTai, that golf game, the gold bracelets your wife wants from your upcoming junket, the education of your children (maybe) and BAM!

America has laid something right there under your nose; something important dammit!! Shit! Fuck! What are you going to do :dilemma:

Eh fuck it!! The republicans will do something :puke: cause anyhow, as mentioned above:

"The check(s) and the perks (have) start(ed) rolling in and oh BTW the checks don't bounce past the raise you already see coming :thumbsup:"

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No-less than Dick Cheney himself counts upon your being a (hopefully) black-mailable self-serving creature of habit, he has already taken it to the bank

[Cha]

68. That's the consenus out on

my street, too.

[guruoo]

76. I agree, but it's a problem that cannot be solved in just one election n/t.

[rainman99]

79. This is the most important time in history to stick together.

Are they perfect? They are a whole lot better than
the other choice. I'd like to have my freedom
back.

[Mutineer]

83. Why should I stick up for people who are not sticking up for us?

Who are only interested in their own fame, their own power, their own agendas that have no relation to what the people of this country want? Stick together? No, what I want to do is put a stick up their ass and make them listen and do what we elected them to do.