What I Loved About Al Gore's Appearance On The Today Show This Morning

[Me.]

Aside from just plain seeing and hearing him speak, I loved the way he called the host, Meredith Viera, on that equivocation thing all these media types do. It's the 'on the other hand' or 'some people say' scenario. In this case, after Al said his piece, she challenged him by saying a scientist who worked with the group that won the Nobel said he was all wrong.

In response Al first told her that the scientist in question was no longer with the group and had become an outlier, he discredited the man completely. Then he said the media had to stop presenting both sides of an argument as if they had equal merit. He said that some people still believe the earth is flat and yet the media, as things have come to be, present that belief as if it was equal to that of those who know the earth is round.

This is an important point, for it has been done so often in the last 7 years. It, presenting truth and untruth as having equal merit, is part of what has created the mess we're in. People really need to push this point home. Just because someone someone has a counter argument or belief doesn't mean that's it's either credible or true. And, untruth IS Not the same as the truth.

George Bush believes a lot of things and most of them are untrue. Cheney says a lot of things and very rarely are they true.

[Annces]

1. That was an effective argument

that Gore used. He is very polished. No ruffled feathers.

[Me.]

3. He Was So Calm About It

But didn't let her off the hook. She started out remarking how Bush 1 used to call him ozone man and didn't he feel vindicated? His response was, 'this isn't about me'.

[Cha]

30. That's perfect!

I hope ol' rove was watching and his ears full.

[WheelWalker]

38. Gore has that clarity of mind and purpose that comes from

understanding things as they really are. He is an awakened being in my opinion.

[gaiilonfong]

2. Please President Gore run again!

I know, I know


sad, I am very sad

[kimpossible]

4. That's my President-in-Exile!

http://www.draftgore.com

[sundancekid]

5. indeed, we should hold the preposterous "equal time" argument always

tied to the traditional "reasonable man" test often used in law ... just because "some people" have a differing OPINION, it simply ratifies that these some people are just like a$$holes, in that everybody has one ...

[Me.]

12. There's Also The Always Stupid Statement

especially as regarding *, that he believes what he believes, as if belief = truth. Well first of all, we all believe what we believe, and some of us, DUers excepted, are idiots.

[debbierlus]

19. A good counter to that - Based on what????

And, then go on to state the truth....

[Gidney N Cloyd]

6. I had an argument with a conservative acquaintance a while back and after he >>>

>>> ran out of BS talking points to try on me he finished with "Well, everybody's entitled to his version of the truth." I said, 'no, everyone's entitled to his *opinion*" I couldn't quite come up with the old Barney Frank quote about facts at that moment but I thought-- this is the whole problem with these idiots the last few years. We've indulged their opinions to the point where they think they're comparably valid. You're right, there is truth and there is untruth. Let them voice their opinions, let them put forth their theories, but if they don't have the facts to back them up then minimally, they're not entitled to equal time.

[Cha]

31. I think I know the quote

you're talking about but I can't remember what it is either..and I don't know enough right words the even google..but it's a good one and I'm sure we'll run across it again some day.

[WheelWalker]

43. "There is truth and there is untruth." Hmmm... I have to

respectfully disagree.

After a lifetime of reflection, I have concluded that there is your truth, and there is my truth. Indeed, each of us has a "valid" truth. "Truth" is merely an observer's evaluation of facts. Facts are what they are, irrespecttive of any observer. They are the the same whether I'm looking at them or you are. Facts exist whether or not there is an observer at all.

"Truth," however, is wholly dependent upon the observer. How we, as observers, experience, interpret, evaluate and draw conclusions about facts, creates our beliefs about them. That is to say, the (our) "Truth." Now, one or the other of us could be more or less accurate in our observations, interpretations, evaluation and conclusions. Indeed, we both could be hideously off base as far as actually understanding the facts which envelop us. There is no unified truth; only distinct evaluations of facts by individuals.

Thus, we often have several observers to an event recount what they experienced quite differently. In our legal system this is most apparent in that we have the plaintiff's truth and the defendant's truth. Understanding the rules of evidence (what a judge will permit to be admitted to the "fact finder"), we have the truth that plaintiff's counsel determines to present and the truth the defense counsel elects to put on; then there are the rules by which the judge instructs the fact finder for use in evaluating the "facts" that have made it into evidence. Finally, there is the truth as the jury determines it. Which, if any of those versions of truth is "truth" and what of the versions are "untruth?"

Now a "lie" is similarly subjective, and not to be considered objectively determinable. Several people can, and usually do, hold to different, honest beliefs as to the truth of certain facts as they know them. A lie, however, has nothing whatsoever to do with any objective evaluation about a fact. To call something a "lie" assigns a "truth value" to what someone believes about what they believe to be the truth. Thus, to "lie" is to state a belief about a fact that the speaker does not actually believe. Whether the person's evaluation of the underlying fact fundamentally matches the way things really are is irrelevant. For example, you and I might be discussing the fact that it is dark outside, and you evaluate the truth of the darkness to be that it is nighttime. If, on the other hand, I have read astronomical tables and conclude a truth about the darkness such that I believe it to be a solar eclipse, while I state to you something that does not comport with my truth of the matter by agreeing with you that it is nighttime, I have lied.

Simply put, a lie is a lie because I state something about the way things are that I do not actually hold to be true. A lie is not a lie because I know it to be contrary to your truth, or even an evaluation of fact as the rest of the planet might agree is true. What makes it a lie is that the liar is espousing a truth about a fact which the liar does not honestly believe.

And what is reality? I'm not certain. My present truth about the concept not fully formed. However, whatever I eventually conclude will be my truth only, and not any objective truth. Knowing what I believe I know about truth, to contend otherwise would be a lie.

If, on the other hand, when you speak of knowing the "truth," you mean knowing "the way things really are;" well, few there are in the history of sentient beings on this planet who have had that understanding sufficient to speak of it. Indeed, there may be none alive at this moment. It is the great challenge to come to that knowing.

[Me.]

50. And There Is Parsing Of The Truth

Welcome to DU, you'll fit right in here

[Me.]

55. Thinking About It, I Have To Disagree, Truth Isn't An Eye Of The Beholder Thing

There are truths which are fact based and those which are self evident. When the founding fathers wrote, 'We hold these truths t be self evident', they were talking about truths which stand on their own and are not opinion based.

[WheelWalker]

59. Truth and Consequences

I believe I understand what you're saying.

"Self-evident Truth" as used in your example may be related to the final reference in my post, where "truth" is used to mean "the way things really are". I think what I was reacting to in my post is the carelessness with which the word "truth" is often applied.

In the context of "truth," as juxtaposed with "lie," I think the subjective "truth" is being discussed. Do you agree that "lie" has to do with what we believe to be "true," and not what is objectively "real" or "true" in the sense of one understanding the way something "really" or "truly" is?

I agree there IS a sense of truth where there is a corresponding "untruth," namely anything which is NOT the way a thing "really is." However, the concept of "lie" is inapposite to this latter usage.

If I may presume to evaluate your statement regarding "self-evident truth," you have concluded that among our nation's founders were those who espoused one or more "objective" truths and, to some extent at least, understood the way things "really are." Unfortunately, history argues otherwise and belies their belief that those "self-evident truths" applied only of white, European males.

Having said all of that, questions remain. Do our observations, intentions and actions with respect to physical and mental phenomena alter the way things really are? That is, can one's subjective truth modify objective truth? If the answer is yes (which my subjective truth - my experience - tells me is the case), then the next question is, can such alterations be avoided and, if avoidable, can they be "managed?"

More fundamentally, is it even possible to step outside the role of the experiential observer and know things as they "really" are? My subjective truth is that it is possible; however, as I think I indicated earlier in this thread, I believe few there are in the span of human existence who have achieved this awareness and understanding.

I am pleased to have been engaged with you in this discussion. You have given me cause to pause and reflect. That is not an insignificant gift. Thank you.

Blessed Be.

[Donovan61]

52. The quote

I don't know if it was Barney Frank who said it, but perhaps the quote you are looking for is: "Everybody is entitled to their opinion but not their own facts."

I love looking at Republicant's faces when I say that after they have just spouted some particularly egregious piece of BS.

[poverlay]

7. Good for him. That one has been a true hair-tearer for me. n/t

[CatWoman]

8. video here

http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&brand=msnbc&tab=m5&rf=http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/12065856/&fg=&from=00&vid=9659ea92-af88-4806-9700-97fd3570aa21&playlist=videoByTag:mk:us:vs:0:tag:News_Editors%20Picks:ns:MSNVideo_Top_Cat:ps:10:sd:-1:ind:1:ff:8A

:hi:

[debbierlus]

11. Thanks for the link, btw - great to watch!

[Me.]

13. Fabulous!

Thanks. I'm going to watch it again.

[debbierlus]

9. He nailed it - the media thinks fair & balanced is giving lies equal footing as truth

[jwirr]

37. Fair and Balanced was supposed to deal with the elections and

giving both candidates ideas air time. Instead they think they can arbitrate truth by ditching the evidence and just airing quotes. We saw the results of the media's idea of fair and balanced when they followed the swift boating of John Kerry without looking at the evidence. Also the military records of *ss.

[Atman]

10. Blame Fox

It's their brand of fake "fair and balanced" that really started all this.

.

[lutefisk]

14. Thanks for the heads-up! Watching west coast feed now...n/t

[yodermon]

15. "Fair and Balanced" trumps "Truth"

the fox news effect.

[Apollo11]

16. Viera did a good job. Gore did a great job.

I think it is legitimate for Meredith Viera to give Al Gore the opportunity to respond to an Op-Ed article in the Wall Street Journal that questions the evidence pointing to man-made global warming (MMGW).

Her question gave Al Gore the opportunity to get his point across.

She was not saying that equal time or attention should be given to the MMGW-deniers.

Al Gore is saying let's look at the evidence. But he cannot deny there are different points of view.

Of course it is legitimate for him to point out that the deniers are a tiny and shrinking minority, while there is a broad consensus of scientists saying that global warming is both real and man-made.

[Me.]

21. She Wasn't Unnecessarily Aggressive

But why bring up some of it to begin with. Al is a very distinguished man, does he need to be be reminded, yet again, that the sire of the * failure called him names and made fun of him. I generally like Meredith but feel her interview was so typical of what goes on these days. Everyone is now doing some version of Russert's gotcha journalism. I'm glad he called her on it and I hope he does the same with all the others.

Wouldn't it have been refreshing if she had started the interview saying something like, "they're running out of water in the South, would you attribute it to global warming and can you suggest any solutions?"

[lunatica]

17. Gore has taken on the media for years Ms. Vieira

Remember, he's the first major casualty of the media. He so gets it. He was also the first to defend the Dixie Chicks against the media. He said then that the MSM had reduced itself to sound bites plus personality. That balanced reporting is a thing of the past. He's given a steady stream of speeches since Bush started catapulting the propaganda of war with Iraq in 2002. But the media mostly ignored him, so only those of us who stuck with him know that he's prepared for all the crap Meredith or any other vapid talking head has for him. He's already done that and been there. He knows the Straw Man personally and intimately and he knows how to knock him down in 3 seconds flat. He's just too polite and tactful to Meredith and others to tell them how stupidly specious and pathetic their arguments are.

Edited to correct the war with Iraq (not Iran)

[Cha]

32. Absolutely!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[orleans]

41. good post. welcome to du. n/t

[Me.]

49. Welcome

[spanone]

18. 'some folks say' this is such a cheap journalistic insult.

[Kurovski]

20. K&R. (nt)

[AikidoSoul]

22. Gore's the classiest and smartest act there is

am still hoping.........


K & R

Let's keep his name alive.

Write to him and ask him to run:

Honorable Al Gore

2100 West End Avenue

Suite 620 Nashville, TN 37203

[Me.]

23. LOL

Have written twice and rec'd 2 replies but neither said I had persuaded him, yet.

[RestoreGore]

24. yes, he called her on the media tactic of hiding the truth

By countering it with a false one. Way to go, Mr. Gore.

[earth mom]

25. Isn't Gore on 30 Rock this week?

Didn't the 30 Rock cast members wear Gore '08 t shirts?

Dare we still hope?

[Uncle Joe]

36. Yes, yes,

and yes.

[TheDoorbellRang]

40. I just saw a promo for 30 Rock with Al on TV

Al was saying something like,"There's a whale in trouble. I have to go." And then as he turned to leave he was taking off his suitcoat -- just like Clark Kent.

:rofl:


I've see someone's signature that reads: Superman wears Al Gore underwear. Ain't it the truth.

[earth mom]

51. Cut to Al wearing an Al Gore 08 t shirt as he flies off into the night sky....

:bounce:

p.s I LOVE that signature! Might have to change mine now....

[H2O Man]

26. Wish I saw it!

Nominated.

[Cha]

27. Thank you so much for

reporting on Al Gore's appearance so eloquently! I felt like I was there..shame on meredith viera(not sure she pulled that shite over on the view..but I really wouldn't know) for doing that(do you think she's given a script and she better not veer from it?)

I'm so ecstactic that Al Gore was ready for the m$$m cause we know they're gonna do what they do. It's a HUGE part of their doing that bushit is in the white house and not Gore.

So what did meredith have to say to Gore after he told her what she and the Nation needed to hear? :)

[Name removed]

28. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Me.]

45. She Didn't Have Much To Say

Here's what he said:

‘But, Meredith, part of the challenge the news media has had in covering this story is the old habit of taking the on the one hand, on the other hand approach. There are still people who believe that the Earth is flat, but when you're reporting on a story like the one you're covering today, where you have people all around the world, you don't take -- you don't search out for someone who still believes the Earth is flat and give them equal time.’

ttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/05/gore-rips-media-dont-g_n_71269.html



And the youtube video is posted on DU for your enjoyment

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x67293

[Cha]

56. Thanks! This is huge!

Look at far we've come since the corporatemediawhores ran the roost!

Thank you, me, for ALL the info~

[liberalla]

29. Bravo Al Gore!

I have seen him make those points before and he's right on!
They're valid and need to be heard by all. Especially media types.

[KoKo]

33. Thanks...'Me"...when i checked it out from DU'ers You Tube post it's incredible

how relaxed he was in sparring with Meredith who started it off using "Poppy Bush's" odious "Ozone Man" jibe to go at Gore. He handled it all so well...it was good to see. Pointing out the Media Flaws was like seeing more of "Gore Unleashed!" It was good! :-)'s

[Me.]

48. So Courteous

As he made such a big point

[Seabiscuit]

34. By calling that "scientist" an "outlier" he outted him as a liar without having to say it that way.

The perfect choice of words.

Great interview, Al!

[Uncle Joe]

35. I thought Al Gore nailed it with that reply.

Thanks for the thread, Me.

[Me.]

47. You're Welcome

Al Gore in action this morning, :spank:, in quite the nicest way

[Catherine Vincent]

39. I truely love Al Gore.

He's awesome. Repukes should compare and contrast to their guy. :puke:

[CoffeeCat]

42. That's why he's the Goracle...

Love the man.

[The Count]

44. "You don't balance the truth with a lie" - Edward R Murrow

It's what MSM has been doing - at least for the past 7-8 years or so that I am steaming...Starting with photos of war protests - and adding 3 freepers - implying that there are equal numbers - and every single issue.

[Me.]

46. That Line Says It

Perfectly

[gasperc]

53. When Artic Ice is gone, will conservatives admit they are idiots?

Or will they just lie there way out of willful actions to let Global warming run it's course, and blame liberals and immigrants for the world's problems, like mass migration causing war caused by Global Warming? My money's on the latter.

[bookkillrr]

54. Very Nice

Yah, yah, So nice to hear someone with a brain on television. Yes, Al Gore, run. Or don't run, just grow a set and get on with it.
BK

[Me.]

57. Clown!

[H2O Man]

58. Clowns

come in all shapes, sizes, ant textures. Some are funny, and some are sad.