Ron Paul Is Money

[stevedeshazer]

Republican Raises Stunning $3 Million Online in Less Than 24 Hours



By Z. BYRON WOLF
Mark it down: A landmark moment entered the annals of political fundraising Nov. 5, 2007.

If Texas Republican Ron Paul's Web site fundraising meter is to be believed, the Libertarian candidate, who has lagged in the polls but raised as much money as top-tier candidates, passed $3 million in online fundraising in less than 24 hours.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3822989&page=1

---

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A RON PAUL SUPPORTER

However, I think it indicates a profound disconnect with the Republican party.

Think about it: This guy, who has bucked every establishment trend, raised a shitload of cash in a hostile environment simply because he opposes the Cheney/Bush Neocon agenda.

Now, I think Ron Paul is nuts for his libertarian views.

But this means something. I'm not sure what, but this means something.

[laureloak]

1. They're desperate for a hero. Always have been. n/t

[dbt]

2. It might also mean a profound disconnect

with the DEMOCRAT(ic) Party.

There is that possibility, however remote it may seem here.

:evilgrin:

[toadzilla]

3. it means EVERYONE is desperate for change

even the repukes, though they could never bring themselves to switch sides.

and i DO agree with Ron Paul on the currency issues, the fed needs to be done away with, we need currency that is backed by something tangible. thats a big issue, hes the only one talking about it. I disagree with him on almost everything else.

[MichaelHarris]

4. I always ask

people on the streets who wave the Ron Paul crap in my face a couple of questions:

1. If Ron Paul gets less government and cancels taxes who pays his salary?

2. Are you sure you want to support a man who takes money from White Supremacists?

2. How did you get here today, sidewalk or highway? How do you think that was paid for?

Go RON PAUL!!!!! If you hate highways, sidewalks, schools, health care and retirement.

[stevedeshazer]

7. Sure, his views represent social anarchy

The Libertarian POV means privatized roads and emergency services. It's a joke.

My point is, it has become a legitimate view among the unwashed Republican right libertarians.

They must be so confused that they are willing to give it all up from the neocon establishment.

Cognitive dissonance.

[Silverbug]

8. actually

most Libertarian types I've talked to say they still want roads, police, schools, etc...but that they shoulld be funded on the state level. I'm not sure if this is already the case or not.. I think the federal government does have control, or at least influence over these things currently..

[RantingWacko]

29. Here here! n/t

Forget jobs. Forget schools. Forget making our streets safe. A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for the Gold Standard above all else. Or so the young man harrassing me on the street told me.

[superkia]

61. If he cancelled the personal income tax only, he could keep the...

rest. I'm sure they could get by with getting rid of the personal tax, that is if they decided to actually do their jobs instead of just burning money so we have debt.

Taxes and fees imposed by federal, state or local laws. The Internal Revenue Code (title 26 of the United States Code) lists taxes and "fees" such as:

* Accounts receivable tax
* Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)
* Building permit tax
* Capital gains tax
* CDL license tax
* Cigarette tax
* Corporate income tax
* Court fines (indirect taxes)
* Dog license tax
* Estate tax
* Excise tax
* Federal income tax
* Federal unemployment tax (FUTA)
* FICA tax
* Fishing license tax
* Food license tax
* Fuel permit tax
* Gasoline tax (42 cents per gallon)
* Generation Skipping Tax
* Gift tax
* Hunting license tax
* Inheritance tax interest expense (tax on the money)
* Inventory tax IRS interest charges (tax on top of tax)
* IRS penalties (tax on top of tax)
* Liquor tax
* Local income tax
* Luxury taxes
* Marriage license tax
* Medicare tax
* Property tax
* Real estate tax
* Recreational vehicle tax
* Road usage taxes (Truckers)
* Sales tax and equivalent use tax
* School tax
* Septic permit tax
* Service charge taxes
* Social Security tax
* State income tax
* State unemployment tax (SUTA)
* Telephone federal excise tax
* Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
* Telephone federal universal service fee tax
* Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
* Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
* Telephone state and local tax
* Telephone usage charge tax
* Toll taxes
* Tourist development tax
* Traffic fines (indirect taxation)
* Trailer registration tax
* Transfer tax and Generation-skipping transfer tax
* Utility taxes
* Vehicle license registration tax
* Vehicle sales tax
* Watercraft registration tax
* Well permit tax
* Wheel tax
* Workers compensation tax

[Joe for Clark]

5. He hit a nerve - he did good - stood up in a populist kind of way.

that thing which enables him to influence events - I think he may have.

You are ok with me Ron Paul -

Joe

[Silverbug]

6. Paul is THE anti-neocon..

Noone, not even on the democratic side has come close to bashing Bush & co like this man...

NEO-CONNED!

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

[cali]

9. He's for a Constitutional Amendment declaring that life begins

at conception, but not for any social supports. He wants to end Social Security. He wants to pull out of the U.N. He takes money from the the owner of Stormfront- and on and on. Oh yeah, he's also a racist. I don't give a flying fuck about his desire to pull out of Iraq, in the light of all the other disgusting things he stands for.

Oh yeah, what's your gender?

[stevedeshazer]

10. You've missed the point

I respect your point of view, but I'm struggling with your venomous response.

Most thinking DUers and progressives GET that Paul is a libertarian and thus his political philosophy on the whole is absurd. I KNOW that he's nuts on social issues. I'm not advocating his candidacy - I'm trying to highlight the one freaking thing that is breaking off Republicans one voter at a time.

By the way, why do you care about my gender or Stormfront?

[cali]

13. I have a theory that Paul appeals to men more than women

and yes, I hate seeing him praised on DU. And the reason I care about Stormfront is because I think it's unconsciounable to accept money from a neo-nazi. And you didn't make it clear at all that you were trying to highight the thing that is breaking repuke voters off- not that I'm sure about that.

[stevedeshazer]

22. Okay.

I wasn't praising Ron Paul.

I don't support Neo-Nazis. That had nothing to do with my thread or my take.

I don't know how to make it more clear that I don't support Paul. I was just trying to make the point that I made initially. I wrote nothing about Stormfront.

Respectfully, I resent your reading more into my post than what was written. I stand by it.

Peace.

Steve

[Tejanocrat]

37. Biden also says life begins at conception.

[tammywammy]

42. But does he want an constitutional amendment saying that?

My mom believes that life begins at conception, but she's still pro-choice.

[cali]

45. Biden is pro-choice. His voting record testifies to that. He does

not believe in imposing his believes on women. Paul is rabidly anti-choice. His voting record is testimony to that. That's a huge difference. I trust you can see that.

[Tejanocrat]

53. Biden is not particularly pro-choice. He voted to ban D&X procedures with no exception for risks to

mother's health, he's voted to stop all federal funding that is tied to abortions, and he's got only a 36% rating from NARAL (making him the most anti-choice Democrat in the field).

[Progressive Friend]

30. Dennis Kucinich is anti-Neocon AND anti-neo-liberal

Which makes him far better than Ron Paul, who is extremely neo-liberal economically (i.e. "libertarian").

[jpgray]

50. He is only marginally good on foreign policy. He sucks on almost everything else.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

11. I'd be willing to give a libertarian a shot over a Republican. At least their

ideals aren't disgusting.

[OzarkDem]

20. Oops, this is a Democratic web site

we tend to support Democratic candidates here.

[ConfidentialStatus]

39. No need to worry about me

anymore! After all the Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney bashing on this site. I'm done with the Democratic party. My wife read some of the crappy comments about Ron Paul and she too is done.

And after reading this thread along with some others in the past. Guess who she's supporting? I'll give you a hint it has something to do with the money bomb.

I'm very sorry to leave but I have to look my children in the eye and do the right thing. The message is peace... love... freedom and liberty.

For those who like to throw mud and use this forum as a smear campaign... have fun. I'm going for country over party.

Peace out

[AlCzervik]

12. i saw a "Ron Paul Revolution!!" banner on Friday and i thought "WTF?"

wow the gop is desperate, so desperate that half of them are now calling themselves "Well i've always really been a libertarian" sure, of course you are. :sarcasm:

[BuyingThyme]

14. I saw a flier on a telephone pole in my hometown.

I did a double-take.

[Recursion]

46. Except Paul *has* always been a libertarian

He gets nominated as a Republican for his district despite the best efforts of the GOP apparatus. His views on reproductive choice are a non-starter, but why is he, a nominal Republican, more willing to speak the truth about corporate and government power than pretty much anybody except his good friend Dennis Kucinich? It's a shame that both of those have policies that make me unable on principle to vote for them; they're both about 90% right.

[Swamp Rat]

15. Ron Paul will split the GOP in two.

:)

[hiphopnation]

57. you've outdone yourself with that one swampy

:rofl:

and

:puke:

if underpants could talk......

icky

[Lone_Star_Dem]

16. Some Republicans I know who are ashamed of their association with bushco are looking at R. Paul

He's the anti-bush and that's all that matters to them.

It's important to note that these people never investigate a candidate. They simply look at party affiliation (no one that does not have an R behind their name is considered) and listen to the current campaign/media message. Then they happily fire off an uninformed vote. Yes, these are the same people who voted for bush...twice.

It's like I'm finally watching the Republican party is fracturing into pieces.

[mikeytherat]

52. "Ashamed" is not a term I let them get away with.

"Chickenshit" is the new vogue.

I remind my freshly-minted Libertarian (formerly Bush-bot) friends: Time was that a "Libertarian" was really just a Republican who openly liked porn and pot. Now, it seems, "Libertarian" means "Republican who is too chickenshit to admit he or she is a Republican."

mikey_the_rat

[Eric J in MN]

17. I wish we raised $3 million for Donna Edwards.

Instead, we didn't even reach the goal of $200,000 for Donna Edwards.

[Tactical Progressive]

18. The little nutcase will take Republican votes if he stays in the race

When right-wingers can't support the collapse of their failed ideologies, they either pull back into their stinkholes until it all passes over and they think everybody has forgotten, or they grab on to the next nutcase that comes around.

Before they'd ever join the ranks of the honest, reasonable, thinking crowd, ie Democrats.

They have a preternatural aversion to being on the good side.


Dems should be sending money to this looney bird.

[OzarkDem]

19. From grassroots? Not likely

someone just deliberately plunked a ton of cash in his campaign for a reason. Windfalls like this don't arise spontaneously from the voters.

[Bjorn Against]

23. Well he did have at least 21,000 donors today, and the night is not even over

I am not even close to a supporter myself, but there is no denying the guy has grassroots support. Certainly you don't see the establishment figures backing him. I know he doesn't have a chance of winning but when the GOP has been trying to shut him up for a while I am sure this day has freaked them out big time.

[OzarkDem]

25. Sorry, I don't think its all grassroots

we don't have real, honest races these days.

[Recursion]

48. The farther right you go, the more grassroots your support tends to be

I mean, it is true that we out-fundraise the GOP in every category except one: donations under $50. It's easy and facile to say that the GOP has all the big corporations behind them, but the truth is we're getting more large donations and they're still getting their excess money from little donations from normal people. Dean finally figured that out and started to close the gap, but Paul is really good at word-of-mouth campaigns.

[Virginia Dare]

58. I just wonder if there are some fundamentalist groups out there driving this..

with his stance on abortion and home schooling, among other things, I could see some fundie churches organizing their members in support of him.

[Solar_Power]

21. 22,000 online donors in one day

Wow - people on the Right really hate this war

[OzarkDem]

26. He's a Republican, he wont end the war

and if you think he would get elected and end the war, well, I have some swampland up for sale...

[RantingWacko]

33. Oh he may try to end it...

... but the Repubs in Congress wouldn't let it happen for a minute.

[Recursion]

49. What would stop him?

Seriously, if he were commander in chief, what could anybody do to stop him from ending the war?

Or is your point that he's spent decades building up a consistent anti-interventionist public persona just so he can get elected in 2008 and engage in an interventionist foreign policy?

[mopinko]

24. libertarians should not be allowed to play.

they don't seem to believe in government. why do they want to be a part of it? how can they be a part of it?
it is a very interesting intellectual exercise. but it is no way to run a government. i do know some who are against money for roads. i mean, come on.

[w4rma]

27. Ron Paul is the only Republican I would ever consider voting for, because it appears that he is not

corrupt. (He is also a RINO.)

[RantingWacko]

32. He's still a racist whackjob, even if the Repubs hate him. n/t

[NC_Nurse]

28. I've seen signs for him in Chapel Hill.

Not one sign for anyone else at this point.
I kinda like it. He's shaking things up. Why not?

[Recursion]

47. There are signs for him in Boston

Up here in Allston and Brighton some of his people have tagged a lot of street signs with the "rEVOLution" stickers.

I think his appeal is that Ron Paul is what GOP candidates just run as: an otherwise small-government conservative who believes that a fetus is a human life that has a right to be carried to term.

[devilgrrl]

31. The adoration for that guy is truly disturbing...

:puke:

[Mojorabbit]

40. He put up this

wonderful bill
H.R. 3835: To restore the Constitution's checks and balances and protections against government abuses
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-3835
and he has my respect for that.
Here is part of it

A BILL

To restore the Constitution's checks and balances and protections against government abuses as envisioned by the Founding Fathers.
snip
(a) Findings- Congress makes the following findings:

(1) Unchecked power by any branch leads to oppressive transgressions on individual freedoms and ill-considered government policies.

(2) The Founding Fathers enshrined checks and balances in the Constitution to protect against government abuses to derail ill-conceived domestic or foreign endeavors.

(3) Checks and balances make the Nation safer by preventing abuses that would be exploited by Al Qaeda to boost terrorist recruitment, would deter foreign governments from cooperating in defeating international terrorism, and would make the American people reluctant to support aggressive counter-terrorism measures.

(4) Checks and balances have withered since 9/11 and an alarming concentration of power has been accumulated in the presidency based on hyper-inflated fears of international terrorism and a desire permanently to alter the equilibrium of power between the three branches of government.

(5) The unprecedented constitutional powers claimed by the President since 9/11 subtracted national security and have been asserted for non-national security purposes.

(6) Experience demonstrates that global terrorism can be thwarted, deterred, and punished through muscular application of law enforcement measures and prosecutions in Federal civilian courts in lieu of military commissions or military law.

(7) Congressional oversight of the executive branch is necessary to prevent secret government, which undermines self-government and invites lawlessness and maladministration.

(8) The post-9/11 challenges to checks and balances are unique in the Nation's history because the war on global terrorism has no discernable end.

(b) Purpose- The American Freedom Agenda Act of 2007 is intended to restore the Constitution's checks and balances and protections against government abuses as envisioned by the Founding Fathers.

SEC. 3. MILITARY COMMISSIONS; ENEMY COMBATANTS; HABEAS CORPUS.

(a) The Military Commissions Act of 2006 is hereby repealed.

(b) The President is authorized to establish military commissions for the trial of war crimes only in places of active hostilities against the United States where an immediate trial is necessary to preserve fresh evidence or to prevent local anarchy.

(c) The President is prohibited from detaining any individual indefinitely as an unlawful enemy combatant absent proof by substantial evidence that the individual has directly engaged in active hostilities against the United States, provided that no United States citizen shall be detained as an unlawful enemy combatant.

(d) Any individual detained as an enemy combatant by the United States shall be entitled to petition for a writ of habeas corpus under section 2241 of title 28, United States Code.

SEC. 4. TORTURE OR COERCED CONFESSIONS.

No civilian or military tribunal of the United States shall admit as evidence statements extracted from the defendant by torture or coercion.

SEC. 5. INTELLIGENCE GATHERING.

No Federal agency shall gather foreign intelligence in contravention of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.). The President's constitutional power to gather foreign intelligence is subordinated to this provision.

SEC. 6. PRESIDENTIAL SIGNING STATEMENTS.

The House of Representatives and Senate collectively shall enjoy standing to file a declaratory judgment action in an appropriate Federal district court to challenge the constitutionality of a presidential signing statement that declares the President's intent to disregard provisions of a bill he has signed into law because he believes they are unconstitutional.

SEC. 7. KIDNAPPING, DETENTIONS, AND TORTURE ABROAD.

No officer or agent of the United States shall kidnap, imprison, or torture any person abroad based solely on the President's belief that the subject of the kidnapping, imprisonment, or torture is a criminal or enemy combatant; provided that kidnapping shall be permitted if undertaken with the intent of bringing the kidnapped person for prosecution or interrogation to gather intelligence before a tribunal that meets international standards of fairness and due process. A knowing violation of this section shall be punished as a felony punishable by a fine or imprisonment of up to 2 years.

SEC. 8. JOURNALIST EXCEPTION TO ESPIONAGE ACT.

Nothing in the Espionage Act of 1917 shall prohibit a journalist from publishing information received from the executive branch or Congress unless the publication would cause direct, immediate, and irreparable harm to the national security of the United States.

SEC. 9. USE OF SECRET EVIDENCE TO MAKE FOREIGN TERRORIST DESIGNATIONS.

Notwithstanding any other law, secret evidence shall not be used by the President or any other member of the executive branch to designate an individual or organization with a United States presence as a foreign terrorist or foreign terrorist organization for purposes of the criminal law or otherwise imposing criminal or civil sanction

[devilgrrl]

41. Oh, I'm sold!

Not!

:sarcasm:

sfw?

[Mojorabbit]

43. You don't

think it is a good bill? It doesn't make him presidential material but I give credit where it is due. I haven't seen anything like it from any of our Dems yet.

[KharmaTrain]

34. He's Playing Repugnicans Like Violins

I still predict that Paul will pull out of the GOOP next year and run third party...possibly back at his libertarian roots.

This is a phenomena I saw occur here when the state GOOP collapsed a couple years ago. The anti-tax, pro-gun faction bolted here for the libertarians...many using a lot of the same rhetoric Paul uses...they aren't a large number, but enough to keep Repugnicans from winning any statewide office.

What this is showing is the discontent among a faction of the GOOP that came into the party, like Paul, who are anti-government and pro-gun. They don't like or trust the other choices and Paul is their man...almost similar to how many flocked to Dr. Dean in '04.

I'm hoping Paul continues to create waves in the GOOP...then bolts. It'd all but doom their chances next year.

[riverdeep]

35. The libertarians have been largely absent from the debate.

Forget Ron Paul, I think we can use him tactically, but as for most of his positions, no thanks. What I'm saying is every night Bill O'Lielly rambles on about the 'far left', he and many others ignore the rumblings on the far right. There are different varieties of right. Some are the nutball evangelicals who would follow Dear Leader to hell. The neocons who create hell. Racist separatists who think Dimson hasn't done enough to push back the brown horde and cut off welfare. And libertarians who don't believe in foreign entanglements, the fairy tale of a time in America when it wasn't interventionist.

These last two are natural Ron Paul supporters. If he starts to peel away the first one with his unlibertarian-like talk on abortion and such, he could actually be a player.

[Tejanocrat]

36. He's better on the war than Hillary, but he sucks on most issues.

[TimBean]

38. It means people are ready for a change.

End of the Iraq war.
End of the drug war.
End of big government.

If we're going to be taxed to death in this country of course I would rather those dollars go to something good that helps the people (Democrat) rather than building bombs (Republican), but I would rather those taxes aren't taken out at all.

Remember: Taxes = Money = Power = War. It's all related, so cut the government off at the source.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

44. Hmmm, think he'd go third party?

Now wouldn't that be an interesting twist!?

[porphyrian]

51. He even looks a little like Perot. -n/t

[Didereaux]

54. Ron Paul - the new Ralph Nader...only trouble is

Each party believes he will syphon votes from the other party...on this the the Repugnants have broken their string of wrongheadedness. He will syphon from the Democratic side and the independents...net result Democrats lose again! But hey, those crazy twirley-eyed whackos that call themselves Democrats and tout Paul are one of us, right? Therefor we must embrace their right to support a candidate that is not a Democrat-in fact we should encourage the miscreants, for only by tenderly nurturing the little bastards will they be able to grow up free of all the restraints of good sense, manners and with a social conscience! Oh wait! Doesn't that descrinbe pretty much the touchy-feely raised kid throwing the temper tantrum on the super-market floor, or food at the other customers in the nice restaurant?

sheeeesh!

[Tatiana]

55. He is a nut - his anti-war stance is the only praise-worthy thing about him.

But a LOT of people seem drawn to him. I see more Ron Paul bumper stickers around here than any other candidate (Dem or Repuke) running for President. More than Giuliani, Clinton or Obama.

[hiphopnation]

56. it means a split of the conservative vote in '08

and it's good news

fwiw, paul is not only a nutter, he's also a bigot.

[Virginia Dare]

59. It's disturbing how much love he gets around here though...

sometimes, I just have to say...:wtf:

[redqueen]

60. When I see anyone claiming they might vote for him, I think: