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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 07:15 PM
Original message
Click here if you want to see how the Democrats can Win on the Immigration Issue (must-see)
Edited on Sat Nov-10-07 07:25 PM by Dems Will Win


WE CANNOT GO ON WITH THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE IN THE SAME WAY ANYMORE! WE NEED A PROGRESSIVE SOLUTION!

Here it is:

We must treat the root cause of illegal immigration, not the symptoms. We assume they come here because the US is so great. In fact, they come because we are starving them to death through NAFTA!

The EU gave aid to Greece and Portugal to lift their poorer nations up and prevent excess immigration as we have suffered here. Plus there are too many corporate work visas that are totally abused to the tune of 1/2 million a year. The Dems must speak out against and stop these too!

But in Mexico, we must give aid to boost education levels and also give agricultural aid AND STOP DUMPING CORN THROUGH NAFTA:

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) are responsible for the impoverishment of and loss of many small farms in Mexico and Haiti. NAFTA is also causing the economic destruction of rural farming communities in the United States and Canada. The resulting loss of rural employment has created a landslide of socio-economic and environmental consequences that are worsening with the continued dismantling and deregulation of trade barriers.

When NAFTA came before Congress in 1993, US farmers were told that the agreement would open the borders of Mexico and Canada, enabling them to sell their superior products and achieve previously unknown prosperity. Corporations who operate throughout the Americas, such as Tyson and Cargill, have since used the farming surplus to drive down costs, pitting farmers against each other and prohibiting countries from taking protective actions. These same corporations have entered into massive farming ventures outside the U.S. and use NAFTA to import cheaper agricultural products back into this country, further undermining the small farmers in the U.S. Since the enactment of NAFTA, 80% of foodstuffs coming into the U.S. are products that displace crops raised here at home. NAFTA has allowed multinational mega-corporations to increase production in Mexico, where they can profit from much cheaper labor, as well as freely use chemicals and pesticides banned in the U.S.

In both Mexico and Haiti, NAFTA policies have caused an exodus from rural areas forcing people to live in urban slums and accept low paid sweatshop labor. Farmers in Mexico, unable to compete with the large-scale importation and chemical-intensive mass production of U.S. agricultural corporations, are swimming in a corn surplus that has swelled approximately 450% since NAFTA's implementation. Haiti's deregulation of trade with the U.S. has destroyed the island's rice industry in a similar manner. Urban slums, engorged with rural economic refugees, are contributing to the breakdown of cultural traditions and public authority, making the growing masses increasingly ungovernable.

The Mexican government clashes violently with any organized protest of NAFTA. Dissent in Chiapas and in Central Mexico has lead to the reported arrests, injuries, and deaths of dozens of activists. Community leaders like Minister Lucius Walker, executive of the Interreligious Foundation for Community Organization, state that, "The biggest challenge facing all of us in this new millennium is to build a citizens' movement to counter the corporate captivity of the Americas."

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2003/8.html


A half a billion dollars could start to restore agriculture in the 90 corn-growing regions devasted by NAFTA. This could prevent the immigration of up to a million or more Mexicans a year!

The NW Progressive Institute has the real answer to illegal immigration, now at 3 million per year: develop the Mexican economy and educational system. Not only would this keep Mexican workers at home, it eventually creates new markets for our exports. The important beginning is to let them produce their own food and other items profitably and let wages rise down south as the economy and infrastructure develops.

American exports of corn have tripled, while real prices of corn in Mexico have fallen 70% since 1994! This has affected 15 million Mexican farm families.


The advantages to this approach are numerous, beginning with the avoidance of silly spending on low-wage soldiers running around in the desert trying to catch an evil tide of Jack-in-the-Box counter clerks. If the same dollars were spent on schools, it would give the carpenters among those counter clerks work on that side of the border. Second, and more importantly, it would generate human capital there. And both sooner and later it would generate well-being, a truly indigenous economy, and even real demand for US goods.

Sustainable Development of Mexico is the REAL ANSWER that Progressives should repeat endlessly until the November election. It makes a hell of a lot more sense than building a 1,000 mile fence and spending all that salary and gasoline driving around trying to catch 3 million people a year sneaking over the border.


Non-answers to the immigration problem begin with those of Charles Krauthammer, which include erecting a wall along the entire border and in one motion legalizing those inside the country and slamming a miracle door that keeps everybody else out. This goofiness follows directly after Krauthammer lampoons Bush for thinking he can close the border with a military style action. And of course, there is no shortage of liberal straw men in Krauthammer's analysis.

In fact, liberals like Thom Hartmann have made the case that illegal immigration is a favor to Corporate America because it depresses the price of labor by increasing its supply. He and others have correctly pointed out that if employers of illegals were jailed for hiring them, the flow would be stanched quicker than any size electric fence could accomplish. (Notably, Krauthammer fails to mention this central alternative to the Berlin Wall of the South.)

But the real answer, the economic answer is to provide development support for the populations where they currently reside: Basic investment in roads, utilities and education, not subsidies to factories on the edge of town, whose only mission is to exploit cheap labor before it has to cross the border.

...

Lock them out! Deport them! It is an immigration problem!

In fact, it is an economic problem, a trade problem. To a very real extent, people flood into the US because the economies of their native countries have been decimated by a trade regime instituted by the US. The agriculture that has been the backbones of many of their economies and provided the framework for their societies has been wiped out by cheap American imports.

The point is often made that menials can earn four times the wage here in the United States that they can in Mexico. First, Four times nothing is still not a living wage. Second, People only need self-determination and a chance for survival, not big bucks, and it is these minimum conditions that are becoming scarce.

Since the 1970s the economies of the developed and newly industrial countries have increased steadily, if in some cases not spectacularly. Economies of underdeveloped countries have contracted by one-third. It is not material extravagance these folks are rushing into when they come across the border, it is want they are fleeing. All for the benefit of the industrial farm that has already wiped out the family farm here at home.

http://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2006/05/economic-answer-to-immigration.html



Please recommend so we can start up the Echo Chamber on this way to frame the solution. Even Lou Dobbs never mentions this! Let's start with an e-mail campaign to Dobbbs and all the Cable news that this is the REAL ANSWER.

The development must be progressive and sustainable. Regenerate the ability of the land to grow, cut off the agribusiness cheaper food supply as the land regenerates and farming comes back in central and southern Mexico and regenerate the economy and the culture. Mexicans don't WANT to leave their homes. If they could eat and prosper down there, they would stay at home and not come over the border in droves.

And give lots of education aid as the EU did with its southern countries!

Progressive candidates must start speaking the truth on the illegal immigration issue -- or risk not taking the White House and keeping the House in November '08.

Juan Hernandez, a former top Mexican govt adviser, says they had already identified a list of 90 "micro-regions" from which the vast majority of migrants had emanated. This simultaneously highlighted the areas where need was apparently the greatest, and the areas that spawned migration. Unfortunately, as with much of the original hope and promise of the Fox era, not much was ever done w/this plan.

The idea of regional development in the micro-regions where most of the illegals are coming from is perhaps the most important concept here. That makes this whole thing practical and understandable to the voters and maybe even liberal Dem politicians.

Regeneration works by a regional development plan that emphasizes first food self-sufficiency and then moves on from there. (invented by Robert Rodale in the 1980s)

This would cost around $360 million (my estimates) to regenerate the 90 poorest Mexican micro-regions, far less than the several billion dollars to build, staff and maintain a useless border wall.

Of course we must also end the dumping of cheap US agribusiness corn into Mexico.

If you are excited about this new approach for the Democratic Party on immigration K&R this thread and let's talk about it!
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Proud to be the 1st (2nd?) rec.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. kick
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. kick
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Immigration made America what it is today
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes but 3 1/2 million EXTRA immigrants are too much for the system to handle
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. This sounds good--but we are ignoring the main problem
Middle Class working people whose support we need make look at this
issue a little differently.

Why is it our responsibilty to do all these things for Mexico?
They have very rich citizens in fact, Forbe's Richest Man in the
World is Mexican and lives there.

When are activists going to get so concerned about what has
been done to the Middle Class in America by Nafta? We are
losing ground big time .

Our taxes are used to pay for the education, health care and
welfare payments to immigrants. Yet we cannot qualify for anything
and our schools are being overrun, harming our own children.

I am not being contrarian--If we are to be successful we have
to at least act as though we are concerned about our own citizens.
Otherwise, no one will win.

Congress has lest this fester too long and average Americans
have lists of complaints -- many are justified.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's our responsiblitiy to stop doing these things TO mexico
The OP is absolutely right. Unregulated immigration is a huge problem here that is caused by a huge problem in Latin America.

It's better to solve the root cause.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. yes help to give them a reason to stay home in the first place
not try to figure out what to do with them once they get here, help to give them a better life in their own countries rather than continue to help to exploit them there with our corporations raping their lands and their water and their air and on and on. The fact an illegal immigrant have to, will and can work for sometimes pennies on the dollar is why they are tolerated today. its hard to compete with someone who will work for such a smaller amount. A lot of us, in fact most, live on our backs, in other words our labor not our education.

please no riots intended here ok, this is my day of rest;-)
peace to all this sunday mid day.

myself I'm off to watch the vikings and the pack, guess who I'm pulling for, AD ;-)
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Of course we're concerned about our own citizens, that's why we're Democrats
But now we MUST help our neighbor to the South, or they are going to come and stay for dinner forever.

I explained it's only half a billion -- that's two days in Iraq to help keep a million a year form coming here illegally.

You think that's a bad deal, remember how much of social services and schools undocumented workers eat up!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Were you okay with the US thwarting Mexico's elections? Just saying... nt
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. What does that have to do with giving them foreign aid for their schools
Do you realize most in rural areas in Mexico never get into Junior High grades?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. If you are okay with us fixing their elections, you ought to have no problem
with us trying to improve their lot in life.

Nice, but cowardly, dodge to my question, though.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Rove and his buddies fixed their election not the progressives, who supported Obrador
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trayfoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Actually, I believe
that the only winning strategy for the Dems on illegal immigration is to hammer home the need to close the borders FIRST! Then, the discussion of general immigration can proceed.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Um you can't close a border that's 1200 miles long. Think about it
Plus the HV1-B visas are given just to get cheap workers and take away US jobs. This must stop.

Better to address the root problem, then try to close unclosable borders. 3 million enter illegally every year from Mexico!
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. kick
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. kick
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
11. Immigration and union-busting
Illegal Workers: the Con's Secret Weapon

Conservatives are all atwitter about illegal immigrants. Some want to give them amnesty. Others want to reinstitute the old Bracero program. Others want to build a wall around America, like the communists did around East Berlin. Some advocate all of the above.

But none will tell Americans the truth about why we have eleven million illegal aliens in this nation now (when it was fewer than 2 million when Reagan came into office), why they're staying, or why they keep coming. In a word, it's "jobs." In conservative lexicon, it's "cheap labor to increase corporate profits."

...

It's really all about breaking the back of the most democratic (and Democratic) of American institutions - the American middle class.

One of the tools conservatives have used very successfully over the past 25 years to drive down wages, bust unions, and increase CEO salaries has been to encourage illegal immigrant labor in the US. Their technique is transparently simple.

Conservatives well understand supply and demand. If there's more of something, its price goes down. If it becomes scarce, its price goes up.

They also understand that this applies just as readily to labor as it does to houses, cars, soybeans, or oil. While the history of much of the progressive movement in the United States has been to control the supply of labor (mostly through pushing for maximum-hour, right-to-strike, and child-labor laws) to thus be able to bargain decent wages for working people, the history of conservative America has, from its earliest days grounded in slavery and indentured workers from Europe, been to increase the supply of labor and drive down its cost.

In the 1980s, for example, the increasing supply of labor (both from Reagan-allowed consolidations eliminating redundant jobs, and from illegal immigration, which was around 3 million illegals by the time Reagan left office) fed massive union-busting in industry sectors from those directly hit with illegal immigrant labor (like construction and agriculture) to those who only felt its fallout but nonetheless were pressed (like coal mining).


Think for a moment about the "invisible class" or the working poor who really felt the impact of the immigration from the South since the 80s.

The middle-class is just beginning to feel the heat from the pressure of the conservative's wage war because all immigrants are not coming from the South. Just ask any IT specialist or nurse. The immigration issue that directly impacts the middle-class worker comes from H-1B type competitors with visas who work for lower wages. And, when workers are not brought here, corporations and the government “outsourced” jobs. Viewing immigration as an issue of workers coming from the South is not addressing the entire “immigration” issue.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks for this
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. My g-g granparents were economic refugees and so are the border crossers of today. Great post.
K&R.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Thanks for this
This is win-win for the Dems. The numbers look great and it changes the whole tone of the debate over immigration. It's not the immigrant's fault they come -- we starved them and they want to eat!
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. kick
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. kick
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