British woman banned from entering New Zealand because she is too fat

[ruggerson]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=494616&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

A British woman planning to start a new life with her husband in New Zealand has been banned from entering the country - because she is too fat.

Rowan Trezise, 33, has been left behind in England while her husband Richie, 35, has already made the move down under leaving her desperately trying to lose weight.

When the couple first tried to gain entry to the country they were told that they were both overweight and were a potential burden on the health care system.

Mr Trezise managed to shed two inches from his sizeable waistline to fulfil criteria set out as part of his visa application to work as a technician in the country.

(more)

[n2doc]

1. So when do they start genetic testing to weed out potential "drains" on healthcare?

Methinks the Kiwi's have gotten a bit too full of themselves. Cross one possible destination off the list for vacations...

[babylonsister]

2. Will old people be next? That's just wrong. nt

[pnwmom]

8. Last time I heard, they had an upper age limit of 45 on this kind of

immigration. But that was some time ago.

[panader0]

3. She's not that fat.

When she has to get an electric shopping cart, who knows. C'mon New Zealand, don't you have a Wal-Mart?

[Leopolds Ghost]

62. By the standards of your average American... the Wal-Mart question is apropos.

[BlackVelvet04]

4. It will eventually happen here......

the floodgates were opened with the smoking thing.

[seabeyond]

19. yes they were, and yes it will happen here and more.... n/t

[LeftishBrit]

5. Warning: very unreliable source; the story MAY not be accurate.

The 'Daily Mail' is NOT a reliable source of news. It is a sensational and very right-wing tabloid.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2174684

In the context of this story, they are likely to exaggerate and distort (a) anything that could imply that Johnny Foreigner has been nasty to a Brit; (b) anything that fuels their propaganda about the evils of 'nanny states'.

Of course, the story may prove to be correct, in which case it is indeed disgusting; but I'd be cautious about accepting anything from that rag as the truth

[Selatius]

7. Yeah, Daily Mail can't really account for accuracy much.

As far as this story goes, I'll call it a wash, since it comes from a biased source.

[ellie]

6. She doesn't look

that fat to me.


On edit: OMG! It's Grovelbot on my avatar!

[seriousstan]

9. Here are some things that will keep you out of NZ...from their website...

�� In a person up to the age of 21 years, a severe (71-90 decibels) hearing loss or profound bilateral sensori-neural hearing loss
�� In a person up to the age of 21 years, a severe vision impairment with visual acuity of 6/36 or beyond after best possible correction, or a loss restricting the field of vision to 15-20 degrees
�� In a person up to the age of 21 years, a severe physical disability, where they are unable to stand and walk without support, and cannot independently dress, eat, hold a cup, or maintain their stability when sitting.

Welcome to Nationalized Healthcare.

For even more people they don't want go here...

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/EDE93E50-160B-4732-8713-2181A340F91F/0/Appendices.pdf

Medical is Chapter 10.

[LeftishBrit]

14. Welcome to some countries' hardline immigration policies!

I don't believe in discriminating against immigrants on the grounds of health/disability, but I don't believe in discriminating against them on the grounds of poverty either, and most countries do.

And this is NOT a feature of all countries with nationalized health care. You're getting out of this story precisely what the RW Daily Hate-Mail wants people to get out of it! The UK, though it has all sorts of rules and regulations about immigration, does not discriminate on these sorts of grounds; neither do most Europaean countries, even those with very anti-immigrant general policies.

[tabasco]

35. Welcome to immigration standards.

You think a country should take people who can't work?

I suppose you prefer open borders and no national health care. That's what republicans want. What a coincidence.

Btw - the story appears to be a tabloid sham.

[LeftishBrit]

56. Of course not - hold on, I am British!

We have had a National Health Service for 60 years, and I will fight to the death to preserve it from those who wish to undermine it! I was in fact strongly disagreeing with the post, to which I was replying, which argued that this shows the danger of having a national health service.

And I don't want open borders or unrestricted immigration, though I do disapprove of *extreme* anti-immigration policies; of policies that discriminate against the most needy while often allowing criminals to enter without a check; and of blaming immigrants for everything that goes wrong in a country.

My point on immigration (which was perhaps not clear to those unfamiliar with the Daily Mail) is that the Daily Mail is constantly complaining about the number of immigrants to the UK, and screaming for a harder-line immigration policy - and then, when another country's immigration policy denies entry to a Brit, suddenly that becomes the ultimate in unfair discrimination! Very hypocritical of them.

[IsItJustMe]

43. I have no idea why you make the assumption that national health care is the reason why New Zealand

discriminates. Sounds to me like you just pulled that out of your <delete> hat.

[slackmaster]

65. The health care system is the stated reason they denied entrance to the woman in question

It is quite relevant.

Do you actually think the potential health care costs have absolutely nothing to do with NZ's policy of denying immigration to people with hearing, vision, or mobility problems?

[LeftyMom]

48. What's on the US list? HIV for one. Canada too.

Hell, a refugee woman was assulted and infected with HIV IN Canada, and last I heard they were still trying to throw her out.

[northzax]

59. well, why would a county accept an immigrant

who will be an immediate burden on the State? doesn't make sense at all.

[Ghost Dog]

10. You don't think that's fat? Now I've heard it all.

Unless there's a medical/genetic or colonial-history (cf. some South-Sea Islanders) reason for it I find such apparently self-satisfied obesity offensive.

And yes, I know that to say so is supposed to be politically incorrect in the USUK world. And yes, I do smoke.

I'm sure DUers will be able to explain to me how my opinion is wrong?

[varkam]

11. Out of curiosity...

how can you tell by looking at someone if there is a genetic contribution to their obesity?

[Ghost Dog]

12. I can't, of course, varkam.

Many Maoris, it seems, are large.

But I can observe that in those two societies in particular (US and UK) the incidence of obesity has increased manyfold in recent years.

And it may have something to do with relative heavy overconsumption in those economies in particular and depletion of the planet's resources in general?

(ed. and some kind of overall dumbing-down, couch-potatoism and junk-consumption?)

Or is it just psychological?

I really would like to hear explanations/justifications for this phenomenom which, I'm sure you'll understand, can appear offensive to the many people in this world who struggle just to make two ends meet (ie. find enough to eat each day).

(ed. again, BTW I agree that the Daily Mail is not at all worth payng the slightest attention to - I am a Brit, but I haven't lived there these last twenty years).

[LeftishBrit]

15. In developed countries, poor people are generally fatter than rich people...

because it costs more to eat healthily than unhealthily.

Actually, in the UK, research shows that people tend to eat *less* than they did 30 years ago. The big change is that, with manual jobs having been to a significant degree replaced by desk jobs, and people living further from shops and work which means that they drive rather than walk - people take far less exercise than they used to.

Why is it more immoral to be overweight than to smoke?

[Ghost Dog]

18. I didn't say immoral, I said offensive to some (maybe many).

I believe what you say is correct. If there is fault (in those two rich countries I referred to) it will be much less on the part of the, possibly not-so-well-off, consumer, and much more on the part of the economic system that sells them such crap.

Why do I smoke? I am addicted to nicotine. I smoke Spanish black tobacco (relatively pure, far fewer, as far as the available information tells me) additives. And I totally agree with not smoking around those who don't want to breathe air polluted in that manner. Especially not around children. Fortunately, in Southern Europe there are plenty of convivial open-air spaces (café tables) available - but don't get me on a David Hockney-style rant here, please? ;-)

[Clintonista2]

53. More offensive to smoke. n/t

[varkam]

20. AFAIK...

Genetics accounts for 63% of the variance in body fat. In other words, there is an influential genetic component to obesity. I agree that it is becoming a bigger problem on a society-wide level, but I think it would be very difficult to - just by looking at someone - assess aspects of their personal lives and, consequently, determine whether or not they are deserving of your ire.

Poor people, especially here in the States, tend to be overweight. Junk food costs less, is easier, and is plentiful whereas healthier alternatives tend to be more expensive, require more time and energy to prepare, and tend not to even be sold in poorer neighborhoods (where you might just have a convenience store to do grocery shopping - not a supermarket).

[Ghost Dog]

24. So it seems. Yet another example of the economic system harming peoples' lives.

(Hey, what's natural is natural - but there appears to have been an unnatural increase).

And, the words Shakespeare put into Julius Caesar's mouth re. Brutus always rang true to my ear:

Let me have men about me that are fat;
Sleek-headed men, and such as sleep o' nights.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look;
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.

* Caesar, scene ii

[eridani]

44. And people have very little control over the non-genetic factors

--which you pointed out in your second paragraph.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. Quit smoking and you'll likely find out how easy it is to gain weight.

I've seen it happen many times.

It's a bad idea to judge people for their "faults" because you may end up with the same "faults."

If it were easy to be thin, who in their right mind would not choose to follow the easy path to thinness?

Smokers and/or younger people often think they know how to stay thin but when they hit 40 or 45, sometimes 35, they gain weight and can't lose it. They can't understand it.

It's a survival mechanism. Your body wants to store extra fat in case of famine and it's difficult to keep your body from doing what it wants to do. Your hormone levels change as you age and that affects your weight. There are also a number of environmental factors at play in this and it's difficult to control all of them. And there are genetic factors, too, so be sure you picked skinny ancestors.

[Ghost Dog]

21. Yeah, I know. And I'm 53 now.

Please don't let me cause any further offence. Just let's discuss how it really is?

[bunnies]

23. Its all relative you see.

If I went to wal-mart right now the majority of people Id see would be this size or larger and yes, I consider it fat. But in the US this woman is probably just slightly larger than average. And I, at a healthy weight, am constantly railed for being "skinny".

[Ghost Dog]

26. But, don't you folks (here in DU) plan finally to do something about that whole Wal-Mart

syndrome?

(ed. Or is this a particularly HRC-related issue I shouldn't get too close to as a non-voting foreigner?)

- and, re-reading and on reflection, do you think this could have anything to do with the problem with Anorexia in many young girls? Or is that an especially European issue?

[bunnies]

38. But what can be done about it?

People can live however they want (with regard to food). There would have to be a country-wide change of attitude toward body image & nutrition.

I mean... I even know people for whom their weight serves as a "fuck you" to society for trying to "brainwash" people into thinking only thin is beautiful. And I have a friend that looks as if he swallowed a fully inflated beach-ball, but doesnt think he's *that* fat because he knows a couple of guys who are fatter. This is the same guy who's constantly harping on me for my size at 5'2" 115 lbs. Hell, my own sister is about 200 lbs overweight. By choice. Its insane.

Our teenagers are getting heavier and heavier. I think about 25% now are overweight. And according to this: http://www.mamashealth.com/anorexia.asp website, about 1% of teenage girls are anorexic. You do the math.

The US is a fast-food, wal-mart, tv watching country. Fats the new skinny. At least thats how it seems to me.

[Ghost Dog]

41. Thanks bunnies. That's food for thought (no pun intended).

Let me think about it for a while.

When I was a kid, back in the early nineteen-sixties in the UK which was then still to a degree (post-war) socialist - to the extent that I was the first in my family be be able to receive a good grammar-school and then university education (no fees, if your folks couldn't pay), there was certainly a lot of attention paid to what we kids in school ate, and how we exercised...

[Missy Vixen]

42. I find your self-satisfied and patronizing attitude offensive

>Unless there's a medical/genetic or colonial-history (cf. some South-Sea Islanders) reason for it I find such apparently self-satisfied obesity offensive.<

I won the genetic lottery. Shall I wear a sign, just to let you and others know it's "okay"? It must be nice to look down from the ivory tower and observe the little fat people, who just aren't acceptable in your world.

Why don't you quit smoking and see how much weight you'll put on in a year?

Julie

[Ghost Dog]

45. JulieRB:

Crticsm received, accepted with an open heart and, from my ebony tower of song, understood. Though you're not offering to contribute much here, are you? Have you read, thoughtfully, the whole thread?

Sounds rather like the way many people in the rest of the world maybe feel about the debt-ridden over-consuming fat and often slobbish, evidently murderous and obscene, self-consuming resource-consuming planet-destroying SUV-driving USA.

So what was it, genetics, smoking or economics? ¿Politics?

Or is it just "I have the right to do what I like"?

Please say more. I really want to know (more fool me).

[Beausoir]

50. Julie....he'll never "get it". He's a complete waste of time.

History and science will prove him wrong and still...he won't get it.

[Ghost Dog]

52. Get what, Beausoir?

Do you mean defeatism, or why I should give up smoking and start eating junk food (and watching junk TV) or what? Do you mean how you folks, apparently, have no choice?

Please explain.

[Ghost Dog]

54. ...Or are you saying that most US agricultural production is sold to China, or wherever,

to be shipped there, to be processed and packaged, full of chemicals, then sent back to US for the 'easy', 'cheap' consumption of people who have no other choice under your wonderful free Wal-Mart-type market system?

Whereas the 'rich' can afford just to buy fresh stuff straight off the farm next door?

[mvccd1000]

61. What's to "get?"

Everyone's body is different in the degree of efficiency with which they process that matter. You and I can eat the same foods in the same amounts every day, and my body may choose to store more of that food than yours does, but that doesn't change the basic fact. If I eat fewer calories than I burn every day, I will lose weight.

It's a basic law of thermodynamics. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Since your body cannot create matter, if you take in less than you use, you will lose weight. Period.

How come you don't see any fat survivors in the pictures from the concentration camps at the end of WWII? Do you believe that none of the people in the camps were genetically predisposed to being fat?

[Beausoir]

68. Nice analogy....Concentration Camps = no fat people.

Good Christ.

That is one of the sickest posts I've yet read here at DU.

[mvccd1000]

76. If you can find a more PC example, feel free to share it.

You don't see any fat people in the pictures of (pick your situation where a large population of people were denied adequate nutrition), do you? Do you think none of them were genetically pre-disposed to being fat?

There, feel better Beausoir?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

79. Here are two mice.

They get the same diet, and the same exercise.

According to you, because of the laws of thermodynamics they should weigh the same.



So either the laws of thermodynamics are wrong, or you know as much about genetics and metabolism as you do about global warming, or Mexicans.

[mvccd1000]

81. Did you read my post?

I said two people can eat the same things and one will store the matter differently than the other one.

I then proceeded to say that IF YOU TAKE IN LESS THAN YOU USE UP, YOU WILL LOSE MASS.

Maybe you know as much about reading comprehension as I know about global warming. What do I know about Mexicans? I dated one, my brother married one.... What do Mexicans have to do with anything?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

84. Yes, yes, yes.

I'm sure you have lots of Mexican friends.

[depakid]

82. The laws of thermodynaimcs STILL APPLY

A person who burns more calories than they take in WILL lose weight.

That people have varying metabolic rates or leptin levels, etc. doesn't change that fact. Obesity IS preventable and treatable with an appropriate diet and exercise. It really is as simple as that (not that it makes it easy for some people).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

83. Gee, yah think?

My point is, these two mice are taking in the same number of calories, and burning hte same number of calories.

It's as simple as that.

[Missy Vixen]

77. But, Beausoir,

There'd be none of those pesky fat people around, would there? God knows it would be a good thing, right? :sarcasm:

I agree with you on the "sickest post yet". Unfortunately, it's a widely held belief that we'd all be better off without fat people. They're not ... attractive. Nobody cares about them.

Julie

[Missy Vixen]

66. No thanks, Ghost Dog

Frankly, you and your "thoughtful" fat-bashing is making it clear that perhaps, my money and my time are better spent somewhere else to find political debate and commentary.

I can't help but smile whenever I read yet one more oh-so-trenchant reference to "starving" concentration camp victims. That's the answer -- starve us to death. Three or four hundred calories a day are just too much! We'll be dead, but at least we'll be thin, and isn't that the most important thing?

Julie

[Skittles]

73. I quit smoking and I lost weight

weight gain doesn't always happen

[FatDave]

55. "I'm sure DUers will be able to explain to me how my opinion is wrong?"

Well, an opinion is neither right nor wrong. By definition. For example, my opinion is that you're kind of acting like a dick. Am I wrong?

[Katherine Brengle]

67. I'm not going to "explain" why you're wrong, but I will say this --

you certainly sound like a self-satisfied arsehole.

[KamaAina]

78. Oh, and guess where a lot of Pacific Islanders wish to emigrate?

That'd be the only developed country in Polynesia -- NZ (unless Hawai'i regains independence, of course :-) ). This is not setting a very good precedent.

[doc03]

13. This looks like one of those stories

O'Liely or Insanity highlights in order to scare us out of a national health care program. I can hear O'Liely now saying if the Liberals get a government sponsored health care plan all you obese people will be deported.

[LeftishBrit]

16. You bet!

And the ironic thing is that the Daily Mail is obsessively anti-immigrant, and would be happy to find almost any reason to deport/ refuse entry to would-be immigrants, yet when it's a Brit trying to immigrate to another country, suddenly there must be some sinister reason why their rights are being denied!

I do not agree with this NZ policy, if it's being accurately reported; but it is hardly universal to countries with health care/ welfare states.

[Snarkoleptic]

22. Weight discrimination...the last widely acceptable form of discrimination.

[Ghost Dog]

25. Age discrimination?

[grace0418]

27. Do they deny people for smoking, having unprotected sex, or not wearing seatbelts?

All of these risk factors can potentially put a drain on healthcare systems.

[Ghost Dog]

28. What, generally, strains (not drains) a health-care system is underfunding.

My stories about closely accompanying both my parents, on their separate occasions, through the UK medical system, in their illnesses and deaths (both in their 'seventies) would be quite long and complex. I'm working on trying to work them into a novel I'm supposed to be writing that's been on my desk for a while.

Out of those experiences I recall very clearly the UK NHS system explaining/complaining that they've apparently been spending about 80% of their resources on 'elderly' people with less than, say, 5% of their lives left to live... No very cost-effective, was the clear implication.

When my father, who had been a sort of 'star' patient saw his heart condition relapse (he'd previously had to / decided to pay half his life-savings for a heart-valve replacement operation in private medicine because the NHS waiting list was dangerously long) I was taken aside by his doctors and interrogated as to whether he may have been 'abusing' alcohol (something I could certainly swear (the Calvinist bastard - said with deep affection) he'd never done in his life, unlike, on occasions, meself. The clear implication was that, in such circumstances, they wouldn't have considered 'wasting' many further resources on him. This after a full lifetime's employment and unbroken social-security-contribution history (something possible for fewer of us these days). So there's also that discrimination/economic calculation.

However, since Thatcher and especially under Bliar and also now with the Broon, the Uk healthcare situation is surely to be improved by opening up the market to rent-seeking profit-taking mostly US-based multinational corporations.

Mamon be praised.

I repeat: the big issue remains (as in many spheres) (corrupt) ECONOMICS.

(ed: dusty environment for keyboards here).

[BooScout]

29. Your source is crap....

As LeftishBrit has already said the DailyMail is a TABLOID..........think NATIONAL ENQUIRER. UK posters have warnerd over and over again that it's not a reliable source and it's stories are trash stories. ..........Think @an Alien ate my Baby'.

[Ghost Dog]

32. You're right, BooScout, and the migration issue in this context is not very relevant.

But the subject of, come on, just relatively ordinary normal people being sold a rubbish diet (and probably, I've seen what the UK's like now - US must be still worse - driving miles to buy it) is, imho, not insignificant.

As the Marxists did in their day: a contemporary analysis of all that is wrong with today's economic system and proposals for their solution would go a long way towards changing the world, right now.

Sicko, indeed.

[Ghost Dog]

40. It's a great help that both Brits and Yanks understand the term "TABLOID"

(Of course, almost all TV in both parts of USUK is now tabloid.) :smoke:

[opihimoimoi]

30. In my neck of the Forest, she would be considered normal if not skinny...

[Ghost Dog]

34. That would be where, opihimoimoi,

geographically and economically/socially, if you don't mind me asking?

[opihimoimoi]

36. Kaneohe Bay Hawaii loads of obese...culture of Fat is more than evident

Polynesia is known for it... large peeps are considered Beautiful....

Tonga was so bad the King declared it unhealthy....

Same for Samoa....large is beautiful...

All this was supposed to change but from looking around at the MALL....tons of 3X and larger

When Famine hits, these guys are gonna STARVE

[Ghost Dog]

39. I hear you, thanks opihimoimoi.

Hey, fat is one thing. Too fat is something else (same with thin - maybe someone could have more to say about thin here (cf. anorexia)).

I'm now mentally picturing images I've seen of, um, well-fleshed, let's say, very beautiful-looking people from your part of the world, especially (yes, but within limits). And, the young woman in the photo in the OP actually looks very nice (her smile, her eyes).

But I think there's an economic and political issue here. Back in 19th century UK (Brutish Empire and all that), it tended to be the rich (men) who were often fat, ill-fed and unhealthy, suffering from constipation, gout and such. The poor, when they ate, ate (and exercised, although often cruelly) more healthily.

It is the economic system that has changed. Six-packs of beer, just one example of junk, as addictive as processed cocaine, are so easy to buy, don't you think...?

[opihimoimoi]

46. LOL, its the Taco Bell, McFat Foods epidemic gone wild....

[Ghost Dog]

47. You said it!

:beer:

Nothing to do about it, you say? Not even with, like, Greens in power?

[d_b]

31. Reminds me of this picture

[Ghost Dog]

33. OK.

I want to hear more voices/information/opinions if you will.

[opihimoimoi]

37. Holy Crap, I thought it was only in Hawaii...you guys too?? Damn....

[Beausoir]

49. Where's Atman? He LOVES these threads.

Calling Atman! Come out an play!

[brettdale]

51. HAHA FOX NEWS SUCKS!

Boy the media sucks ass, sure the daily mail picked up on this story, then Fox News picked up on it.

If these losers did research, they would know, It was from a satire site, it didnt happen!

[spoony]

57. Seen the comments posted on that story?

Reads like "Freep UK". Of course, they're Mail readers so it's not that big of a surprise but geez.

[Raine]

58. She's not THAT fat for heaven's sake! nt

[symbolman]

60. thank god they don't go by wrist size

Christ, look at the WRISTS on that woman!

[Leopolds Ghost]

63. There's a joke in that headline, but I'm not going to tell it.

This headline ranks with "surfer dude stuns scientists with theory of everything" for funniest accurate headline of recent.

[slackmaster]

64. NZ has government-run universal health care

This incident is one potential pitfall that should be considered when designing such a system.

[Basileus Basileon]

69. For everyone saying "she's not that fat:"

She is pretty, and looks delightful in that photograph.

She is also morbidly obese.

[Beausoir]

70. Thank you, Dr. Frist.

You base you expert diagnosis on a photograph.

Zandor.

[Basileus Basileon]

71. No, I base my expert diagnosis on the fact that her BMI is over 40, which, medically,

is morbid obesity. The photograph has nothing to do with it.

Edit: You think you're clever calling me Zandor? Pathetic.

[Algorem]

72. Middleaged Zealand will probably let her in

plenty chunkies there

[Beausoir]

74. With furry feet!

[WritersBlock]

75. Well shit. There go our retirement plans. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

80. FWIW, the story as reported a day or so earlier, in New Zealand

Skilled worker told to slim before coming to NZ

Richie Trezise, an English submarine cable specialist headhunted for a job with Telecom, was forced to slim down before the New Zealand Immigration Service would let him in.

He was denied an employer-backed talent visa when he failed the Body Mass Index test (BMI), a fat measurement using a person's height and weight.

Mr Trezise was forced to go on a crash diet to lose weight and 5cm from his waist and passed the test to start work in New Zealand in September.
...
Meanwhile, Mr Trezise's wife Rowan is still in Britain attempting to meet BMI requirements before joining her husband in New Zealand.

He said that if she did not make it here by Christmas, he would return to Britain for good.

NZPA

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4275561a10.html

So, the basics of the story do seem to have been reported accurately by the Daily Mail.