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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:21 PM
Original message
Don’t Let “The Appearance of Normalcy” Dissuade us from Taking Back our Country Before it’s Too Late
When Tyranny displaces democracy it generally doesn’t do so suddenly, but rather tends to occur over a long period of time in a long series of steps. That’s what happened when the Roman Republic transmuted into the Roman Empire; and that’s what happened when democracy in Germany gave way to Nazi tyranny in the 1930s*. The Founding Fathers of our country recognized this fact, and they consequently provided us with a Constitution with numerous safeguards to prevent our democracy from transmuting into tyranny. But George Bush and Dick Cheney have ignored and trashed our Constitution as never before in the history of our country. Americans need to recognize this and counteract this attack on our nation before it is too late.

Naomi Wolf, in her new book, “The End of America – Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot”, discusses in detail the warning signs** that signal our nation’s veer towards fascist dictatorship, why most Americans are blind to those signs, and things we can do about it. The book is short, very readable, well written and documented, and very likely may turn out to be one of the most important books ever written. In this post I’ll describe Wolf’s explanations as to why it’s so easy for most Americans to miss the danger signs, and then I’ll talk about movements to turn back the tide in our country.

* -- “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”, written by investigative journalist William Shirer in 1968, is an excellent chronicle on this subject. It is long (about a thousand pages), but is eminently readable and exciting. I provide a brief discussion of the parallels between Hitler’s regime (largely taken from Shirer’s book) and the Bush/Cheney regime in this post, which was written two years ago and therefore omits some important similarities that have arisen since then.

** -- Wolf’s 10 warning signs are already functioning in our country. Though I listed them in my last post, I’ll list them again here, since they’re so important:
 Invoking of an external threat
 Development of a paramilitary force
 Creation of a secret prison system
 Surveillance of ordinary citizens
 Arbitrary arrest and detention
 Harassing of citizens’ groups
 Targeting of dissenting individuals
 Intimidation of the press
 Equating dissent as treason
 Subversion of the rule of law



Why our country’s transition to fascist dictatorship is so difficult for most Americans to see

I usually like to put these things in my own words, but I can’t say it any better than how Naomi Wolf said it:

Americans tend to think of the shift to fascism in terms of scary set-pieces: the boots on the stairs, the knock in the middle of the night… crematoria smoking in the distance. We are so used to seeing depictions of the most sensational aspects – the gulag, the death camps – that we don’t pay much attention to the fact that there is often an incremental process that led these societies to become places where such things could happen. The view that fascism looks from the start like a nation-wide prison camp rather than a fairly normal society can be comforting. It’s natural to wish that the two realities were so categorically different that, of course, “It couldn’t happen here”.

But as would be dictators consolidate power … things proceed fairly routinely in many areas for many years. In the beginning the horror… is usually elsewhere, taking place while other people are going about their normal daily round…

I’ll interject here that the “horror” that Wolf notes to be “usually elsewhere” currently exists out of the sight of the vast majority of Americans, yet is indeed a horror for those who have been arbitrarily arrested, locked up indefinitely without charges or trial, and tortured in George Bush’s “War on Terror”. The number of such prisoners has been variously estimated to be several thousand. Wolf continues…

At first, Nazi Germany would not have looked, on the surface, so unrecognizable to us. Germans still, for a time, saw an independent judiciary; lawyers – even human rights lawyers; working journalists… criticism of Nazis… professors still teaching critical thinking… newspapers of all political colors… As the shift was first taking place, things looked, in many ways, superficially, like an open modern society. Even later in the game, violent dictatorships keep many of the trappings of a civil society. What they do not have … is freedom.

Americans do not get this at all, but other countries who have experienced dictatorships either near them or over them do get it… The fact that we are unaware that a dictatorship can be incremental leaves us terribly vulnerable right now. Even educated American people think that if the press is publishing and the Congress is legislating, all is well; but those things are often happening right up to the point of no return in a closing democracy – and they keep happening, in neutered form, even after a violent dictatorship has been established.

At first, it can simply look like people weighing their words. At its turning point, it can
simply look like a high profile arrest for “treason” or a handful of arrests for espionage – even as tourists still flock to monuments…


Grassroots movements to turn the tide

Two citizen’s movements that were created with the purpose of turning back our slide into tyranny are the “American Freedom Agenda (AFA)” and the “American Freedom Campaign (AFC)”.

The “American Freedom Agenda” is a group of prominent conservatives, led by former Deputy Attorney General under President Reagan (Bruce Fein), the Chairman of the American Conservative Union (David Keene), and former Republican Congressman Bob Barr. It advocates the impeachment of Bush and Cheney and the establishment of Congressional committees to investigate and put an end to the abuse of executive power through so-called “executive privilege”. On impeachment, the AFA has this warning:

The founding fathers expected an executive who tried to overreach and expected the executive would be hampered and curtailed by the legislative branch... They (Congress) have basically renounced - walked away from their responsibility to oversee and check.

On January 20th, 2009, if George Bush and Dick Cheney are not appropriately held to account this Administration will hand off a toolbox with more powers than any President has ever had, more powers than the founders could have imagined. And that box may be handed to Hillary Clinton or it may be handed to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or someone else. But whoever gets it, one of the things we know about power is that people don't give away the tools.

The “American Freedom Campaign” gives us an opportunity to sign up for updates on the latest news regarding our loss of democracy and efforts to restore it, and also requests that we sign the following pledge expressing our commitment to this issue:

We are Americans, and in our America we do not torture, we do not imprison people without charge or legal remedy, we do not tap people’s phones and emails without a court order, and above all we do not give any President unchecked power.

I pledge to fight to protect and defend the Constitution from assault by any President.

AFC asked all candidates for president to sign the pledge. In response, all 8 declared Democratic candidates for President, plus one Republican candidate (Ron Paul) either signed the pledge or wrote and signed their own letter in support of the AFC campaign.

Additionally, Ron Paul recently sponsored the American Freedom Agenda Act of 2007, which would reverse many of the Constitutional abuses of the Bush/Cheney regime. You can go to this site to ask your Representative to co-sponsor his legislation.


The legislative agendas of the AFA and AFC

Both groups advocate a legislative agenda for restoring our Constitution and halting our march to tyranny. That agenda includes:[br />
For the restoration of freedom of the press guaranteed by our First Amendment to our Constitution
 Clarifying that journalists have the right to publish classified information without fear of imprisonment

For the restoration of our Fourth Amendment prohibitions against arbitrary searches and seizures
 Prohibit government from intercepting e-mails or phone calls or breaking and entering one’s home without court-issued warrants

For the restoration of “due process of law” guaranteed by our Fifth, Sixth and Fourteenth Amendments
 Restore the right of detained suspects to be charged and brought to trial.
 Restore the right to challenge the legality of one's detention (habeas corpus)
 Prohibit the use of secret evidence in criminal trials
 Prohibit the use of “enemy combatant” status to detain anyone outside the battlefield and the rule of law
 Prohibit the President from kidnapping, “disappearing”, and holding anyone in secret detention
 Prohibit government use of “state secrets” to deny a fair and open trial to anyone
 Prohibit listing people as “terrorists” based on secret evidence
 Substitute juries for military commissions, except on the battlefield, where absolutely necessary

For the restoration of our Eighth Amendment prohibition against cruel and inhuman treatment
 Prohibit torture and cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment
 Prohibit the use of evidence obtained under torture
 Prohibit collaboration in torture (i.e. extraordinary rendition) with other governments

For the restoration of Congressional power as a check and balance against excessive and abusive executive power
 Challenge the Constitutionality of Presidential “signing statements”, used to violate laws enacted by Congress
 Prohibit the use of “executive privilege” to prevent Congressional oversight of executive activities


What we are likely to end up with if the American people and Congress don’t wake up

Naomi Wolf explains what is likely to happen, at best, if we continue down our current path:

Home grown American versions of the same steps that all dictators have advanced may yet create an America in which all institutions are intact – but functioning weakly; in which citizens have in theory the right to dissent, and some may do so mutedly, but most are afraid to exercise that right robustly; in which the press is subdued, the opposition is pulling its punches, and the people are worried about expressing their true opinions because it may cost them their jobs, or worse…

Sound familiar?

If we fail to act, we could face an America in which we still have Friday night football games… but an America in which people who publish classified documents might go to jail and people who go to jail might not come out the same… an America that looks much the same on the surface – but in which we no longer have real freedom. It could easily become an America that is quieter and more frightened. And a quiet, frightened American citizenry does mean the end of the America the Founders created.

For a little while, we still have the power to stop that from happening…


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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. I just finished reading this book
over the past two days. It should be required reading for everyone. I'm going to pass it on to my youngest daughter.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. It was listening to Naomi Wolf's talk at the UW that changed my mind regarding
impeachment. This is an IMPORTANT book, and she imparts crucial information. Thank you so much for posting this -- Recommend.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. It appears that LOTS of people changed their minds regarding impeachment after
hearing her or reading her book.

I wish that all of our Congresspersons would read it. Many of them need to have their minds changed.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. That's great, but I don't understand how people couldn't see this a long time ago.
Many of us were SCREAMING IMPEACHMENT a year ago and being ridiculed in some threads for it.

Why do things have to get so bad before people WAKE UP?! :argh: How bad will it get before the entire country WAKES UP?!



More warnings here:
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for posting.
I've signed up for the American Freedom Campaign. I recommend everybody do so also.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. "The End of America", along with Glenn Greenwald's "How Would a Patriot Act?"
should go hand in hand; both are short, well researched, and make it very plain that the damage to our Constitution cannot go unchecked if Americans expect to live freely. Strongly recommend both books.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you for an excellent post. K&R
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. RECOMMEND!
and kick.

I read her book, too. Most of it is out there in her talks, but either way, recommended reading. I don't think she's alarmist at all. In fact, she's not even early to the ohmygodthey'refascists party. or dirge
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R, and thank you for the post. Very important reading. nt
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you
I always have a long list of books to buy and read - I'm going to move this one back to the top. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is one I have in my collection - as well as Marianne in Chains by Robert Gildea. If "how it happens" really interests anyone - it's a great companion piece. Right now I'm wondering - Should I join or start a "Maquise" - since my own party is acting as complicity as Petain did in France?

I will definately get over to Borders, read it - and re-comment.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. What is the theme of "Marianne in Chains"?
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. The enemy of my enemy is *not* my friend.
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 08:45 PM by Cerridwen
AFA includes as one of it's leading members a Mr. Richard Viguerie - I wouldn't touch that group with YOUR ten foot pole.

I will stand and fight proudly alongside many conservatives I've battled in politics over the years to get back our democracy. They were and are true and honest and good people who had different ideas about getting to common goals.

Richard Viguerie is NOT one of them. I would recommend to you and your readers that they approach AFA much like they would a time bomb which * has assured you is disarmed.

A quote from Mr. Viguerie

"To use the Internet to involve Americans in the political process, to help conservatives gain an advantage over the left. To fight against government's use of power, to fight for individual rights and responsibilities, and to fight to extend the blessings of liberty throughout the world." (emphasis added) link to source




I'm all for working with conservatives against the rulers of the US, but only real conservatives, not Jesus logo promoting, bathtub drowning, and women hating monsters like Mr. Richard Viguerie. The only checks and balances he is concerned with have to do with his own checking accounts and portfolio.

edit to add: SourceWatch link

edit again: The rest of your post is very good. I thank you for the research. But, AFA is not a reliable source for fighting for democracy. They're just wetting themselves that the powers * has attained for himself will pass on to a non-conservative Democrat. Choose your friends very carefully in the dangerous days to come.


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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. True however, Americans must come together and defend our
constitution. There are two groups. Choose the American Freedom Campaign but make no excuses at not taking any action.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Taking no action would be miles better than taking any action with the very
people who brought us the atrocity in the White House; though I'm pretty sure that wasn't what I said. Please, put words in someone else's mouth; I do fine with my own words.

As I said, there are people I'd gladly come together with to bring democracy back to the US. But not the architects of what we're living now.

Please, research the people involved with AFA. They care about democracy about as much as you care about the bacteria you take antibiotics to fight. Seriously. Do some research.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm neither putting words in your mouth nor asking you to be buddies
with Richard Viguerie (I know I'm not on the same page as him), however, I'm saying don't let their participation in the AFA discourage you from doing the right thing and no, nothing is as bad as letting the constitution burn.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. And all I was saying is watch with whom you form alliances.
Research Viguerie and his buds at AFA - they are the architects - they are the ones who put * in office. Now little boots is getting out of hand and they are running scared.

That's all I was saying.

Research these guys. Another was co-council against Clinton in the Paula Jones debacle. You think he gives two shits about democracy? They are the ones who poured the butane ON the Constitution.

Bob Barr? I don't even know where to begin.

Have you ever heard of that thing joked about - the "vast right wing conspiracy" - guess who helped bring the conspirators together - Viguerie.

Please, research. Hate me. Call me names. Put me on your ignore. Decide I'm some insane whatever. But research these people before making alliances with them; and please don't promote alliances with them.

They think Machiavelli was too wussy.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I don't have to research them.
I'm not speaking to you out of naivete or ignorance. If I wanted to join them, I would signed onto the AFA instead of the AFC. However, I'm not going to kick a gift horse in the mouth if legislation is passed that restores the rights taken away. I'm not that self important.
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Great Point
We all must do our homework. This is a great, important and necessary thread.
Thanks for all who supplied so much info.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Let's suppose you're correct about Viguerie
You very well may be. I know little about him. He's a conservative, and that alone means that I strongly disagree with him on many issues. The quote that you provide confirms that. He may even be, as you say, a very bad person.

Some of the same things could be said about Fein. He was prominent in the Reagan administration, which means that I almost certainly would have strong disagreements with many of his positions (if I knew what they were).

But still, if they're trying to restore our Constitution, why wouldn't we accept their help on that? It doesn't necessarily mean that we have to trust them. Suppose that you're right that their main motivation is that they think a Democrat will be in the White House in 2009? I really don't care about that. Even if I knew for a fact that a Democrat would be in the WH for the next hundred years it would still be very important to me that our Constitution should be restored.

As it turns out, the petition that I link to in my post is sponsored by the other organization, the AFC. But what if it was the other way around and I had signed a petition from the AFA stating the same thing, saying that I pledge to defend the Constitution from assaults by the President, and that we shouldn't torture or lock up people without charges or trial? I just don't see why that would be a bad thing, notwithstanding the motivations of the organization that sponsored the petition. I don't have to be "friends" with someone, or even trust them, to work together with them on a cause of mutual interest.
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I agree
We don't have to be friends with someone or like them to work together towards a common goal. If they can get a few NeoCons to go Conservative - then that's a good thing. The source of the problem isn't Conservative beliefs - it's Neocons, whose beliefs are based on Fascist principles . . . as evidenced by Bush, his Brain, and Cheney.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. See my post #17. These ARE the neo-cons. They are the ones who helped
put it all together.

They are flying a false flag. Please, research.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. The neocons are people like
Ledeen, Pearl, Franklin, Wolfowitz, etc. Viguerie is part of the religious right.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. See my post #17.
These people are not about restoring democracy.

Please, research them further before you promote an alliance with them.

They are the beginnings of the neo-cons we now fight. All those organizations you see posted about here on DU, AEI, PNAC, Heritage Foundation, Christian Coalition, and on and on, these are the guys who put it all together. They've helped create the mess we are now in.

Please, learn more about them before you suggest or even think of allying with them.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I'm not sure what we're arguing about
I agree with you that we shouldn't trust Neocons, and you are right to bring this to our attention, and I appreciate it.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what this affects -- at this point the argument on this subject is more abstract that practical IMO. If they had a petition to sign, for example, that stated what we believe in, or if, for a specific issue we believe that their actions are helpful, and if working together with them in some way would enhance our efforts, then why not?

Ted Kennedy will work together with Orin Hatch or Trent Lott, or any Republican, if co-sponsoring a bill with them that he believes in will help its passage. I don't trust those guys at all, and I doubt that Kennedy does either. In politics, "allying" with someone for the purpose of a specific issue doesn't necessary mean that you trust them -- nor should it.

But I certainly agree with you that we should be very wary of them and make sure that they don't pull us in the wrong direction.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Perhaps I can say something helpful
First, your instinct is correct. The names Viguerie and Barr are cause for siren blaring and hatch battening. That said, there are degrees to things and an accomodation is not an alliance. And without going into a full taxonomy of the right, it can be said that even prior to their current crackup there have always been distinctions along both the evil v. stupid and money v. movement axes. All contributed to the creation of the bushcheneyism monster, but all are not equally dangerous in isolation (nor are all really neocons -- but if you quote me on that in an election cycle, I'll deny it).

Moreover, even after all that minimizing, I would still not go anywhere near their internetty, popsicle-stand "dot org" and its beltway-bounded campaign for happiness through neobipartisanship. Unless and until it makes a nuisance of itself in some way, we can probably expect it to start out slow and then taper off -- as it offers little more that wishful happy talk.

But Naomi Wolf herself is another matter. I can guess that her association with (formation of?) this outfit arose from some PR/neomarketing/synergymnastic notion of hers that would increase book sales be helpful to her general effort. Trouble was, her original notion was a bit naive and the (worth a damn) action item part -- the impeachment (with the treason flourish) -- was added after the rollout.

Now that she's "with the program" she can potentially do a considerable amount of good -- given her particular media status, audience, and level of communication (things I'd also rather not get taxonomic about).

For my part, I'm willing to stand aside and just say "you go girl" (if that's still the proper term or art).

======

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Clarification
I don't believe that Naiomi Wolf is a part of the AFA. She merely mentioned it in her book as a "conservative" organization that has dedicated itself to the restoration of our Constitution. She mentioned two such organizations -- the AFA (American Freedom Agenda) and the AFC (American Freedom Campaign). She plays a major role in the AFC, but not the AFA as far as I know.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Good thread. Worth the read. Rec'd
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sss1977 Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. I just finished reading The End of America myself...
and am currently working on my own journal entry concerning it. Thank you for yours. I also just cracked open Evans' The Coming of the Third Reich and look forward to working my way through it next.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. bookmark for morning n/t
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. Gratefully recommended.
There really is a great deal of complacency about the possibility of waking up and finding the checks and balances of American democracy, along with the basic civil rights we take for granted, are no longer operable.

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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
Thank you so much for this this post. Much respect for the considerable time and effort you put into this for us.

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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
29. All of this is not evident to the general population
it is evident to the 'few' but to the bulk of the population they would think you are crazy if you told them!

Exactly!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. That's true
And a large part of the reason for that is that our corporate news media barely covers what's going on. I wonder if they do that out of greed, fear, or ignorance?
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. probably fear
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
30. We should take warning from "They Thought They Were Free"

But Then It Was Too Late

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after1933,between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know it doesn't make people close to their government to be told that this is a people's government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing to do with knowing one is governing.

What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler read:Bush, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
<snip>


much more that is too familiar at...


http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
45. Yes
I too take those passages very seriously and have used them on more than one occasion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1405625
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Excellent thread. Sorry I missed it the first time. Thanks for the link.
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
31. Add to reading list: 'Bella Fromm, a Berlin Social Diary'
Excerpts from a diary kept by a Jewish socialite and journalist who was so admired even by the Nazis that they accepted her prescence without question. She describes the incremental process of the takeover of her society. She also was a heroine, helping people escape and stayed on doing what she could until her friends finally persuaded her to leave in '38.

Thanks for the other reccomendations.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. That sounds like a great story
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
32. Excellent post TFC-thank you.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. It's good that people are getting the word out
but IMO, it's too late and not enough people care. Some idiots think that a more powerful and less accountable gov't is a GOOD thing, in fact. They believe in the bogeymen that Bushco trots out.

Ironically, the biggest and scariest of the monsters are in our gov't.
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hashibabba Donating Member (894 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R for a great thread
Thanks so much!
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
38. We need to get more into self employment and barter
I hate the "cost me my job" route, which most Americans allow to justify any incursions. It allows the huge corporations to rule directly. Maybe that's why * is tanking the economy with this debt. As long as you can get another job with a better company, those who use this as an attempt at mind control won't have the best employees.

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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
40. Looking back on how Bushco stole both elections it clearly was a plan in the making
and all Bush and Cheney had to do was wait until Sept. 11th.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I honestly don't believe that they just "waited" for Sept. 11th
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sss1977 Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. agreed
official story is just that, a story.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
49. I agree as well...and that is an excellent post at your link...
:thumbsup:
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roxnev Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
44. Bush what ever he is
We are spending to much time on Bush, Bush is now a has been, The whole problem was a Republican Congress, they are the ones we must defeat, they are the ones that gave power to DUMBEST man in history.
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