Rudy and Hillary - what a pair of shitty choices

[ThomWV]

In the time that the country is in its greatest need of visionary leadership we get fed up the two greatest duds that could have been produced from anywhere in the country. Its almost as if New York has replaced Texas as the political joke of the nation.

[Hissyspit]

1. It is bizarre, isn't it?

I was talking about just that with a friend this weekend. It's not a New York thing, though. I didn't just limit it to Rudy and Hillary. Mike Huckabee??

[wtmusic]

2. Which flavor of political influence do you prefer?

Agree. Expect much less change than should be expected.

[screembloodymurder]

3. Gotta admit, I agree.

Ever been to the Purple Fiddle?

[cali]

4. You talk as if it's a done deal: It's not.

Rudy is sinking in early primary states. So is Clinton in Iowa and NH. And frankly, I think comparing Clinton and Guiliani is absurd.

[dmallind]

6. I agree

and speaking of shitty choices why do I get the feeling "Tweedledum and Tweedledee" or some such dreck is lurking just beneath the surface of such diatribes. You'd think now we would have learned that there is ALWAYS a big difference. How much more proof do you need after 7 years?

[hedgehog]

42. When the choice is between mediocrity and disaster, people's

lack of enthusiasm is understandable.

[dmallind]

66. Lack of enthusiasm I can - somewhat - understand

...but willingess to have acknowledged disaster strike just to not be a tiny part of allowing perceived mediocrity to take its course, when those are the only possible options? Nope I don't understand that at all.

[ThomWV]

8. You missed the key word in my sentence

The key word that you overlooked (I know you overlooked it because I've seen your posts - you're smart and if you had seen it you would have immediately known exactly what I meant) was "Fed" meaning that those two are being crammed down our throats even though anyone with eyes to see and the memory of a tree toad would reject both of them on first review.

[cali]

11. Yeah, I agree the MSM would love to see it, but

the fact remains that it's not a done deal. They're both sliding.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. comparing clinton and guiliani is absurb.

:thumbsup:

[demnan]

5. I predict Romney will be our next President

n/t

[dmallind]

7. I'll take that bet at 4-1 minimum. NT

lj

[Armstead]

77. Alas, as a resident of Massachusetts I fear you may be right

Mitt is an empty suit. But he'll be positioned as the anti-Rudy as the scandals and disconnect about Rudy start to hit home.

And he's enough of a smooth operator to cast himself as the "tough moderate" and a "change candidate for conservatives" in the General Election as an alternative to Hillary.

[ccpup]

9. at least it's not

between a douche and a turd sandwich

[izzie]

10. It is fun. Rudy who ran a city like Bush did Texas and they both

have the balls to brag about it and then more years of our own royal family elite with another Clinton to maybe come in after another Bush. In time for Jeb after I guess. Like a second class So. Am. country but then maybe we are on the down ward path and we get what we need? Sure no new thinkers in those two. The trouble is I would vote for her as I would never go back to the GOP. My God that was all bad English. Sorry.

[0007]

27. Good post!

[HughBeaumont]

12. The former first lady vs a former ineffective mayor. For president.

Murdoch-annointed, pro-free-trade war corporatist vs another Murdoch-annointed, pro-free-trade war corporatist.

Aaaaaaaand democracy has hit a new low.

[Phillycat]

79. SERIOUSLY!

I haven't seen it put quite that way before.

The former first lady vs a former ineffective mayor. For president.

This is the best we can do? God, I'm glad I'm moving to Europe!

[HughBeaumont]

93. After seeing "Sicko", that's probably the more sensible option at this point.

After all, I don't see the US getting all of the work/health care/better quality of mental health benefits anytime in the next 6 decades. Here, it's all about pleasing "the betters" first and everyone else . . . well, never.

[Atman]

13. They're the corporate candidates. Period.

They'll both disgust enough of their own party to make the race interesting.

An interesting race means better ratings.

A disgusted electorate means more people tune out of politics.

More people ignoring what's going on in Washington means...more people ignoring what's going on in Washington.

And we all know what that means.

.

[harun]

31. Great post. I think that is why Hillary has been pushed by the MSM

from the beginning. They have a good story with her.

The corporations decide the Primaries, then they don't have to worry about the election. What a system.

[Skidmore]

14. They clearly would be the media's choice and would fulfill media needs on many levels.

1) A prewritten script for another Rudy/Hillary battle, a run that was not completed when he dropped out of the NY race for Senate, played out as a cross between "The Clash of Titans" and "Survivor" (we'll have to watch the spectacle of Tweety melting down into a little puddle of drool).

2) BC in the WH with all sorts rubbernecking to see who comes and goes at the wee hrs of the night, of course assuming that HRC survives the months long replays of the scandals of his presidency for the next year.

3) If Rudy wins, then it scandalmongering again to see if Judith will have to fight to keep the West Wing for herself while Rudy carries on elsewhere.

AND, last but not least,

4) All those corporate dollars keep flowing into the coffers of the conglomerates that own the media.

Stellar choices, aren't they?

[harun]

33. This scenario leads me to think some third party candidacy is going

to come about. Not sure who but I don't see how a number of groups (right and left) could sit by idly and watch this happen.

[Fredda Weinberg]

15. If this is how we respond to victory, we deserve defeat

It's one thing to have disagreements ... another to be disagreeable and worse yet to vent on your own party's candidates.

From where I sit, the candidate I've supported for years is on verge of inspiring a generation of women. What a shame that we can't share this well-earned satisfaction.

[Atman]

17. SO WHAT if Hillary inspires a generation of women!

That's not what she's being elected to do.

Obama isn't running just to "inspire a generation of blacks."

DK isn't running to "inspire a generation of kids who got picked last for the dodgeball team."

This is SERIOUS. Inspiring women to achieve greatness is a wonderful thing, but not at the expense of the rest of the nation. Hillary's POLICIES and IDEAS are what should inspire us, not her gender.

.

[Fredda Weinberg]

18. I'm the one who stood in the street campaigning for her

Please don't lecture me on what's important. I accept the compromises she's made - and am happily prepared to see my party regain the White House.

[Atman]

19. You are willing to compromise? How noble of you.

You are willing to compromise principal because of gender? You are willing to compromise the lives of more soldiers and more billions in Iraq just to "empower" young women? I'd honestly prefer you not compromise the future of our country for such triviality as the candidate's gender.

(edited for typo)

.

[Fredda Weinberg]

21. Gender is not trivial. We are half the population and you either get it

or you don't. In any case, it's your tone that's objectionable.

We could disagree about anything agreeably, but if you can't, then you are not my ally not matter what your belief or ideology.

Compromise? That's what effective governance is all about. DU may not like hearing this, but adults compromise all the time - it's how families keep together and kids get raised. HRC has done a brilliant job of working within the system for her constituents. We would be a great nation to share her benefits.

What you - or I - want is immaterial. I act in our best interest and so does HRC, which is why I've campaigned on her behalf. What have you done for your candidate?

[Atman]

22. BTW, I made an embarrassing typo in that post.

In the second sentence, I typed "...to empower you women..." That was totally a typo, and it sounds condescending. It was not intentional; I meant to type "...to empower young women..."

All the other arguments aside, I just wanted to be clear on that. Ironically, it sounded kinda like Bill addressing the Monica issue, and that wasn't my intention.


Now, that out of the way...Personally, I don't think "working within the system" and "brilliant job" belong in the same sentence. It is her working within this horrid system which I find so objectionable. I don't feel you're acting in "OUR" best interest. You stated as much...you felt she was a good choice because she empowered a generation of young women. I think her stature in the race alone, and what she has achieved already have done that, and will continue to set a great example for young women. But I think she is wrong for the country if we really expect to see the horrid mess of George Bush even begin to be cleaned up.

.

[Fredda Weinberg]

32. Your reading comprehension is poor or you see what you want to see

I noted HRC has delivered to her constituents. She is also an inspiration to generations of females yet unborn and if that's meaningless to you, then ... your loss, toots.

As for your enmity toward the status quo, I find it as puerile as the rest of our exchange. What is, is ... I'm not responsible for the situation and neither is HRC. We do the best we can for the most we can reach - and I'll stack her record of public service against the rest of our excellent slate.

But you lack respect for those who do the daily work of keeping governement working ... just like those who will challenge us in the general election. If government doesn't work, it doesn't matter who runs the machine, as long as it works for us.

Feh. We deserve better than that, whatever our mistakes.

[Atman]

46. You make too many baseless assumptions and outright insults to bother responding to.

Wow. Fucking wow.

Excuse me for having an opinion. Let me know when the Church Of Fredda opens. I'd be curious to see how many people turn out to worship your all-knowing wonderfulness and infallible insight.

Good day.

.

[saracat]

59. I am insulted that you seem to indicate you are willing to compromise on"my behalf'

I am a woman and because I am a feminist I will never support Hillary, and I am disappointed that I can't support a woman in this race.I have waited for years for a female candidate and Hillary is not that person. I refuse to support the corruption of the corporations and the lobbyists no matter what the gender of their candidate. How dare you indicate that what I want is "immaterial" and that you "solely" I presume"act in our best interest " as does HRC?. I really resent your tone and I do not find any evidence that HRC is acting in "my" best interests or the best interests of the nation as a whole. I am whole heartedly campaigning for my candidate and making sure that the "politics of dirty tricks " is not rewarded.

[Fredda Weinberg]

68. I dare use logic. For example, any individuals desires are

meaningless in a social context, but that's theory - one of my degrees is in Poli Sci, so when I quote my instructors, yeah, I dare do so. Did you spent years studying the US's political economic system to affect meaningful change?

As for my tone, as a feminist, I should think you would consider twice before taking umbrage. You don't care for any authority figure, I'm sure (yeah, another assumption based upon your response) but this one is at least your equal, so if you can't match me ... maybe you're not as liberated as you thought.

You say you're whole heartedly campaigning for your candidate, but I've learned that when people omit details, they tend not to have a lot to say. After all, you didn't offer anything positive for "your" candidate, whoever that lucky ducky may be. How about swallowing your outrage at my pride and offer something constructive to the dialog?

[Atman]

78. "when people omit details, they tend not to have a lot to say."

The irony in this one is strong, Luke!

:rofl:

You choose to omit all the details of Hillary's policy positions and her corporate allegiances in favor of her gender. I find that far more troubling than anything you feel the other poster may have omitted.

.

[Fredda Weinberg]

85. Are you a fool? I'm not. HRC has posted her position papers

for all to see. Why should I bother with election docs? This is about a winning campaign.

[Phillycat]

We? What's this we? Got a mouse in your pocket?

I'm female and Hillary is LAST on my list of Dem candidates.

[Fredda Weinberg]

84. HRC doesn't have to be your candidate to inspire generations

of females to come. I have fond memories of Barbara Jordan and she had even fewer friends.

[JackORoses]

52. again with the Street Standing?

get a new shtick, Fredda.

[Fredda Weinberg]

54. Got something positive to contribute? If not, suffer in silence.

Obviously my persona bothers you. That's too bad - in real life, it serves me well.

[Ignis]

61. Isn't that cross getting heavy?

n/t

[JVS]

58. "inspire a generation of kids who got picked last for the dodgeball team."

:rofl:

[Fredda Weinberg]

69. Strange you should mention that.

As life would have it, I was a poor child who attended an exclusive parochial school on scholarship. The females in my class were brutal ... I mean physical bullying.

But I learned a valuable lesson - you don't have to fight to win. Just stand your ground, keep swinging and you will feel no pain.

So yes, for the first year, I was never picked for a team. I must have made quite a site, with my hand-me-downs and cheap haircut ... but after taking on the tallest girl in the class, I captured the dodgeball. Knowing it wouldn't hurt, I simply swallowed the impact whole - to the audible gasp of my classmates.

From then on, I was always first selected by team captains ... even became one myself.

But I didn't join the popular clique; I continued to associate with the same girls who'd been my companions the first year and kept that distance until we all moved on.

HRC didn't inspire me ... didn't need it. But if you laugh at young women who are dealing with "Stupid Girls" and "bitches" or "hos", then that says something about you - one of us is showing good sense.

[Atman]

81. "But if you laugh at young women who are dealing with "Stupid Girls" ...

YIKES! That's what you took away from my post? Or was it a general statement, not directed at me? I sure as hell hope so!

.

[Fredda Weinberg]

86. You are responding to my response to someone else's post. n/t

[eridani]

71. Too bad her policies and ideas suck, except in areas

--where she is pretty must the same as the other Dem candidates.

[Fredda Weinberg]

87. I guess it's our times ... but I don't want another JFK or MLK

Yes, you can challenge the powers that be, but be prepared to pay the ultimate price. No, I'm afraid we'll have to settle for incremental change w/o much public debate over sensitive issues.

Maybe it's being a native New Yorker; I don't see the same relationships outside this metropolitan area, but we have to accomodate each other due to our proximity - maybe it's the reason our politics is lively and paralyzed at the same time.

Dems have an excellent slate of candidates and I can understand resentment at "the machine" ... heck, I despise it more - but keep an eye on the principle, if not the prize ... we can do better and if we stick together as a party we will. See my tagline for details.

[eridani]

89. Settling for incremental change means that you will never get positive change of any kind

Ever. You will only continue to go backwards. If you want to sell your used car for $5000, but would settle for $3000, you ask for the damn $5000 already. If you ask for $3000, you have just guaranteed that you will get even less. The only way to be sure of getting a kitten is to keep asking for a pony.

[RebelSansCause]

74. i was not picked last on the dodgeball team!

ok maybe second to last. or maybe i lied. :P

[JVS]

75. Admit it, we are an entire generation of people who all got picked last for dodgeball

[Armstead]

80. DK isn't running to "inspire a generation of kids who got picked last for the dodgeball team."

God that's priceless.

I support DK....but I havta admit I was usually one of the last kids picked for volleyball too.

[sandnsea]

41. Would Condi inspire a generation of women?

Would you vote for a ticket she was on, just so a generation could be inspired?

[Fredda Weinberg]

43. If her cousin got to her, sure. I believe in redemption, don't you?

As I noted above, I campaigned for HRC on principle - operating from the political center, the Clintons have been an effective team. Once his term was done, I recognized that they were planning ahead, swimming against the political tide to give HRC an elected office from which to run for the White House. Heck, Robert Kennedy did the same thing and the state felt honored. Like Iowa, we take our privileges seriously.

So I handed out leaflets and fielded the comments at the gay pride and Puerto Rican day parades that year. And despite the pundits and the polls, she won. He re-election was a delight to observe ... if you saw what she did to her opponent you'd feel better about her as our presidential candidate, but you got a taste in the last debate.

Condi is an international joke - and I take particular delight in the Hebrew version - so she'd have to prove her conversion was sincere. But she's living a privileged life right now and unlike HRC, I don't expect her to act on behalf of anyone else.

[Armstead]

82. The operate from the Center Right. not the Real Center

[Fredda Weinberg]

88. Can we agree to disagree agreeably? I'm afraid you won't find reliable

empirical data either way.

[Atman]

47. BAM!

:rofl:

After all, it's all about inspiring the young women, ain't it. Fuck the constitution.

.

[JackORoses]

51. Hillary is not Victory, she is at best a Draw

[tjwash]

16. It's like asking if you prefer to get shot or stabbed.

nt

[BuyingThyme]

20. The King and Queen of New York and 9/11.

(Hillary's the Queen.)

It's all a little...odd.

[class2068]

23. I know...

...a Dem who voted to go to war in Iraq and a Repub who likes abortion and hates guns.

[Raine]

24. Very true

the coming election depresses me no end. :-(

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. guiliani and clinton arent the same person. rudy is a shitty choice.

hillary may not be perfect but she is perfectly acceptable to a lot of us.

[saracat]

60. And she is not to an equal lot of us.That is not a good thing.

[natrat]

26. yea they suck in a creepy absurd way of the times-but fucking romney really sucks

[K Gardner]

29. Was just thinking that the other day and wondering..

Will I stay home if THAT is my choice on election day?

[rAVES]

30. A decent candidate like Kucinich cannot be tolerated by the PTB

at a time when real citizens want REAL change its too dangerous, so watered down corporate whores will have to do us.

So sit down shut up and vote Hillary!

[tuckessee]

34. If those are the choices I'm staying home election day. n/t

[Raine]

39. I won't stay home but

I'll leave the space for president blank or vote third party. I will still vote for the other offices like Senator and Congress etc. I refuse to have to pick the lesser of two evils for president. x(

[leftchick]

35. this what happens in a sham democracy

The powers that be will never allow a non-corporate candidate to run for either party. EVER. Welcome to fascism.

[flvegan]

36. What's funny is that they BOTH switched parties.

Rudy used to be a dem, Hillary used to be a 'puke.

I swear to gawd we're getting set up. Again.

[catmandu57]

37. One would think that in a country this large and great

that we could find the leader we need to get us into easier and different times. These sons o bitches got the entire world out of balance, if ever we needed a natural born leader it's now.
Instead we have warmed over corpratist shit on a shingle.

[Cosmocat]

44. A FREAKIN MEN ...

You know I say the same exact thing all the time ... We live in the greatest country this planet has ever known, and we somehow manage to get the elected officials we get ...

HOW does that happen, how can we not get a number of great leaders at a time, much less end up with the likes of the moron we have at 1600 PA now and the current front runners ...

Rudy Guiliani for christ sakes ...

I think Hill would be OK, but she has had pretty much every bit of humanity she ever had to begin with beaten out of her, and it will just be UNLIVABLE with the right wing if she is the candidate or president ... They will be APE SHIITE ...

[Cha]

38. And notice who's

pushing them.. Our Shit-filled corporatemediawhores.

Time, We The People rose up and defied them.

[stirlingsliver]

40. That's Pretty Much The Way It Has Always Been

Look back over the choices for President in the past 44 years:

1964: Lyndon Johnson or Barry Goldwater

1968: Hubert Humphrey or Richard Nixon

1972: George McGovern or Richard Nixon

1976: Jimmy Carter or Gerald Ford

1980: Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan

1984: Walter Mondale or Ronald Reagan

1988: Michael Dukakis or George Bush I

1992: Bill Clinton or George Bush I

1996: Bill Clinton or Bob Dole

2000: Al Gore or George Bush II

2004: John Kerry or George Bush II

Not exactly the most stellar people to choose from over the past 44 years.

[hedgehog]

45. And to think, that in 1964, JFK was planning to run again.

1968, Robert Kennedy, Gene McCarthy

1972, Ed Muskie, Ramsey Clark, Gene McCarthy (I liked McGovern)

1976,Birch Bayh, Hugh Carey, Fred Harris, Barbara Jordon, Gene McCarthy

1980, Hugh Carey, Ted Kennedy, Jerry Brown

1984, Joe Biden, Gary Hart, Laner Kirkland

1988, Bruce Babbitt, Joe Biden, Al Gore, Gary Hart, Pat Schroeder

1992, Jerry Brown, Tom Harkin

We seem to use the nominating process to weed out some spectacualr choices.

[stirlingsliver]

49. Yep. The Nominating Process Does Us No Good

I could not agree more.

It's sad that the nominating process we use does such a good job at weeding out our outstanding candidates.

[Melynn]

90. You forgot Morris Udall in 1976

I worked on Udall's campaign as a volunteer. Mo would been a spectacular choice but people wanted a outsider in 1976 after Vietnam and Watergate.

[leftofthedial]

48. more proof that the American experiment is over

we've created a system that punishes excellence and exalts mediocrity

[HughBeaumont]

95. We bully our smart kids and let only the members of the ruling elite run our country.

If a poor person committed the same crime as a rich and famous person, who would get the greater sentence?

Why do we give astounding bonuses to high-paid execs for offshoring jobs and denying healthcare while the rank and file could do actual work for 60-70 hours a week, sacrifice their family/work time and either get a 3% raise or fired?

Why has the average working class income been flatlined since 1970 while the upper 95%ile has seen their incomes improve anywhere from 29% to 1441% since 1991 alone?

But the biggest mystery of all to me is: why are there people of the working class apologizing and defending this shitty system and it's instigators?

[book_worm]

50. Well why the hell not cancel the primaries? Who says they will be the nominees?

[Basileus Basileon]

53. "Gore and Bush - what a pair of shitty choices."

"In the time that the country is in its greatest need of visionary leadership we get fed up the two greatest duds that could have been produced from anywhere in the country."

It was a lie then, and it's a lie now.

[ThomWV]

56. You know, maybe that is true

I'm not sure who would likely have been the Democrat's nominee in 2000 if it had not been Gore but surely on the Republican side McCain would have been it had Bush not taken it from him.

In any event had we seen different choices in 2000, and certainly at least on the Republican side there were much more qualified persons available, we would not be in the mess we are now. So yes, I do agree with you. We seemed to have had pretty shitty choices in 2000 as well.

[Basileus Basileon]

57. The Republican choice being shitty is par for the course.

You found the Democratic choice so shitty that you made him your avatar.

[eridani]

72. Gore was less than stellar in 2000

Every time I see or hear him these days, I think "Who the hell are YOU, and what did you do with that guy who ran for president in 2000?"

[Armstead]

83. Gore ran as a Clinton in 2000

He triangulated, compromised his principles excessively and let the DLC call the shots.

I wish the New Gore (or most likely the Real Gore) were running this time. I think it'd be a very different story.

[LibDemAlways]

55. If that's what it comes down to, that would, indeed, suck.

However, no one has voted yet, and until they do, I'm not willing to concede anything.

[robbedvoter]

62. At least you're not saying there's no difference...

I am not pleased with Hillary either, but just putting her in the same sentence with Rudy smacks of bad faith...

[Snarkturian Clone]

63. you said it.

I'd rather vote for my cat, except he's not voting age.

[Township75]

64. When was the last time there was so much agreement at DU?

Good Post!

[Prefer]

65. Clinton- Guilliani 08. vs. Kucinich-Edwards 08

[mmonk]

67. Amen, but Rudy is far more dangerous, especially with the constitution

on ice.

[OhioChick]

70. I Couldn't Agree With You More. n/t

[Sanctified]

73. First like those are going to be the choices...

and second even if they were the choices Hillary beats Rudy down hands down. Rudy is going to destroy Social Security, Welfare and every other social service, Hillary on the other hand will not, so comparing the two is totally fucked up.

[dmosh42]

76. The corporate ass-kissers will be happy...

if this happens.

[upi402]

91. True. 2 sides of the same coin

The PBS show 'Betrayal of Democracy' was a prelude to the corporate fascism we are now cemented into.
And still, after all the crimes and through all this time, even DUers refuse to face the facts.
Not all people in the Democratic party are Democrats. They are corporatists. Fascist or fascist enablers willing to sell their soul for another scoop of flesh from the carcass America.

[Solar_Power]

92. The lesser of two evils is still evil

[Perry Logan]

94. Let's just have a look at Hillary's record. See if YOU think she deserves all this vitriol...

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

[mwb970]

96. Did I miss something? Are they nominated already?

The OP seems to assume that the media spin is true and unchangeable, that a Hillary vs. Rudy contest is inevitable so we might as well get ready for it.

Gosh, I don't see it that way at all. Hillary is slipping in some crucial polls. New revelations of Rudy's incompetence and terrible judgment surface every day, with many more to come. Why is it so "obvious" that these two flawed candidates will be the nominees, without a single voter having registered their opinion as yet?

Don't believe everything you hear on TV.

[Solar_Power]

97. Pretty much inevitable

I would bet quite a lot of money that these 2 will be the nominees

[mwb970]

98. Um, how much money?

The "front-runners" at this early stage are not guaranteed to be the nominees. You doubt it? Ask President Dean.