Basically, I've been ordered to get the Flu Shot

[Mike03]

This is x-posted from the Lounge--it seems to be too serious for the lounge, although it seemed too superficial for GD. I hope it's okay to ask this question here, because it would be nice to receive some intelligent, learned responses, and I don't think that matters such as heavy metal toxicity, neurodegenerative disease and aluminum/mercury poisoning are lighthearted issues:

The flu shot is something I've strenuously avoided for many years.

Today I spent several more hours online reading the latest research and websites, and hoping to find evidence that some of the negative information about the shots were myths.

I'm still pissed and worried.

Am I falling prey to paranoia and conspiracy-theory ignorance?

Is there still truly thimerosol (and aluminum?) in flu shots?

Is it dangerous?

Is it linked to Alzheimer's by more than one study? (This is the one that scares the hell out of me).

Thoughts? Opinions? I would love to hear thoughts from people who have researched this issue in depth. There are "factual" arguments on both sides, and determining who is truthful is never easy anymore.

P.S. I can't tell you why I've been ordered. It would take too long, and people that know about this are also readers of this site. But it boils down to a medical issue within my family--so it is not work-related but extremely personal.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Flu shot's fine.

You're in no danger of anything but the flu if you don't get the shot.

What do you mean you've been ordered?

[wuushew]

2. The flu is a drag on the economy and kills people as well

Get one, especially if it is free.

[Dorian Gray]

54. Definitely...

if it's advised, get it. It won't hurt you... other than the quick little pinch you get. :)

[Skidmore]

76. Why is the economy the first consideration for you?

My guess that there are other issues that are bigger drags on the economy than the flu. I would hope the person's health status takes precedence over this as a consideration.

[durrrty libby]

3. I've given flu shots for many years. As long as you are not allergic to

eggs or shellfish, you will be fine

The vaccine contains dead virus. It will not give you the flu

Sometimes people come down with the flu anyway, but that is coincidental

or a different strain. There are dozens of strains and the shot only covers the most

predictable ones

Hope that helps

[Mike03]

6. Many of the comments like yours are reassuring

Some articles advise people who are concerned to get preservative-free flu shots, which do not contain mercury. Is this true, that these are available, and if so, are they relatively easy to get?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Vaccines containing thimerasol are perfectly safe.

There are an awful lot of conspiracy theory nuts on the internet who think it's an experiment in summoning the Devil, or some shit.

They're best ignored.

[Mike03]

10. There's no truth in the notion that receiving more than two

flu shots--or in particular five or more--increases the risk of dementia by 10%?

[LostinVA]

13. There's no way my mom would do that if so

I've never seen one legit study claiming that.

(This sounds snotty, but it's not meant that way!)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Nope.

They're not trying to sap your precious bodily fluids either.

[MADem]

18. Not if you're allergic to thimerosol, like I am.

Eyewashes containing thimerosol would turn the whites of my eyes blood red. The effect would last for days. Shots containing the ingredient would make me sick as shit.

Those 'nutty' military doctors concurred with the diagnosis. I didn't take flu shots, and for other vaccines, they managed to 'special order' for me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Well, no, not if you have an allergy.

It's also not safe if you jab the needle in your eye, or eat the needle, or share the needle with heroin junkies.

[orleans]

61. vaccines containing thimerasol are safe? WHAT?

did you miss bobby's article in rolling stone?

[varkam]

73. You're not...series, are you? eom

[earth mom]

88. Okay, so let's serve up a giant does of mercury for YOUR next meal & see how you like it..

:eyes:

[durrrty libby]

11. I would have to read the packet insert to know what preservatives

if any are used.


You could call a doctor's office and ask about it.

I've given hundreds of shots and never heard of any problems with my patients.

Many of them were a bit fragile and elderly

[LostinVA]

12. Yes, they are readily available

[Milo_Bloom]

17. Yes, and that is the only way I would go if I was going...

My Dad has to get one every year due to a medical condition and I tell him to make sure to get the one WITHOUT the idiotic preservatives.

It kinda works this way... There are lots of food preservatives that are also considered "perfectly safe", but I choose to buy the food without the poisonous crap in it.

[Alcibiades]

60. The federal government made my wife get one

The injector said she shouldn't get one if she's pregnant. My wife has no idea if she was pregnant or not. She was also told not to get pregnant within 30 days of the shot.

Today she tells me she's pretty sure she is pregnant (no missed period yet, but implantation bleeding just like last time). She had the shot the same week it must have happened. Is this any cause for concern?

If so, why is everyone saying how safe the flu shot is?

[orleans]

62. i don't know--but i would start asking around...ask WHY...why

shouldn't she get pregnant within 30 days? why shouldn't she get one if she is pregnant? what will happen? etc.

ask your doctor, her doctor, the people who gave her the shot, etc, etc.

find out.

[trotsky]

80. "why shouldn't she get one if she is pregnant?"

For the same reason that pregnant women are generally steered away from ANY medication or treatment - testing is never done on pregnant women. It just isn't ethical. Chances are beyond remote that a flu shot could hurt a pregnant woman or her fetus BUT because we have never specifically tested on them, we try to avoid it if possible. This is no conspiracy, it's responsible and ethical medicine.

[Alcibiades]

83. Fortunately, she got her period today

What she had thought was implantation bleeding was just the first bit of it. It was a week early, which is what threw her off.

[RC]

4. If everyone around you gets a flu shot, why would you need one?

[Milo_Bloom]

5. I don't get one because they seem useless...

However, I haven't heard much about them being dangerous per se.

[idgiehkt]

7. yeah we were talking about this the other day in class

they can only shoot you up with flu's they have and if the virus that is going around is a mutation then it's a useless shot. Who knows. I've never had a shot and I've had the flu a few times (in 39 years). They say older people should get one. I can see the logic in that cause they could in up in the hospital and get one of those strains of that deadly pneumonia and then die. I think hospitals are pretty dangerous for people with depressed immune systems.

[Quixote1818]

86. It's supposed to be a really bad year. I would most certainly get a flu shot ASAP!

They are perfectly safe but for those who do not get shots 30 to 40 thousand will die. Seems like a no brainier to me. Also, this is predicted to be a very bad year as Australia got nailed. Perhaps 20% of the population may get the flu this year. It's not worth taking the chance.

[LostinVA]

9. I get it every year with no problem -- and I never get the flu!

You just can't be allergic to eggs or be too pregnant... hehehehe

There are trace amounts of thimerosol, but you request the vaccine without it. Ther is NO link between Alzheimer's and the shot.

The flu shot kills millions of people a year, including some healthy Americans.

My mom and sister are both nurses and violently anti-Big Pharma. They get it, too.

[durrrty libby]

16. I don't think you mean "The flu shot kills millions of people a year,"

I think you mean the flu kills , not the shot.

:rofl: No need to make Mike more paranoid

[emilyg]

58. So do I. Never a problem.

[live love laugh]

78. That's like Bush claiming there have not been attacks on American soil. Can't prove negatives...

or can you? :shrug:

On edit: I don't get the shot and I have never had the flu.

[zabet]

14. It is just me...

3 doctors said so. It makes me sick.
Not with the flu, just violently ill
like a bad stomach virus and a head cold
combined. I have none of the normal allergies
that would indicate it would make me sick.
:shrug:

[dysfunctional press]

19. i get one every year, due to a chronic autoimmune disorder...

never had a problem.

[Mike03]

21. Alzheimer's Connection quote and link

I'd like to repeat the Flu/Alzheimer's connection that so many of you have asked about. According to Hugh Fudenberg, MD, the world's leading immunogeneticist and 13th most quoted biologist of our times (nearly 850 papers in peer review journals), if an individual has had five consecutive flu shots his/her chances of getting Alzheimer's Disease is ten times higher than if they had one, two or no shots. I asked Dr. Fudenberg why this was so and he said it was due to the mercury and aluminum that is in every flu shot (and some childhood shots). The gradual mercury and aluminum buildup in the brain causes cognitive dysfunction. Is that why Alzheimer's is expected to quadruple? Notes: Recorded from Dr. Fudenberg's speech at the NVIC International Vaccine Conference, Arlington, VA September, 1997. Quoted with permission. Alzheimer's to quadruple statement is from John's Hopkins Newsletter Nov 1998. Dr. Fudenberg's web address is www.nitrf.org. Interesting info on treating autism on the site.

Randall Neustaedter OMD author of The Vaccine Guide says this: The flu vaccine gets the most-useless-vaccine-of-all-time award. Now the CDC is recommending the vaccine for children under two years old and all adults over 50. Don't fall for it.

http://www.doctorbob.com/vd--flu-shot-season.html

:shrug:

[Breeze54]

47. That is a RUMOR that is going around !!

From Urban Legends---

Flu Shots and Alzheimer's panic-
spam and rumor edition
http://www.themediadesk.com/files/hg.htm

To summarize, if you did nothing but get flu shots and eat tuna sandwiches three times a day,
chewing with your silver fillings we might add, you might sooner or later come down with "the Mad
Hatter's Disease", but not Alzheimer's... or the flu.

[LostinVA]

49. Like another poster said, it's an urban myth

Alzheimer's has a strong genetic link, and was around before flu vaccines -- it just wasn't called that.

[Sadie4629]

22. My husband was once "ordered" to get a flu shot

Their plant manager was a huge bully who hated my husband with a passion. He stood over DH's desk and told him that if he didn't get a flu shot and called in sick for ANY reason, he would be fired. He was young and healthy and felt that flu vaccines should be reserved for the elderly and sick people. He ended up getting the shot. I think it would have served the manager right if my DH had ended up with GBS. (Of course, Hubby was glad he didn't!)

[Mike03]

24. Whoa, thanks for sharing this story

It's truly amazing sometimes how power operates.

[Sanctified]

23. I have egg allergies so I never get a flu shot.

And I never get the flu, I rarely get sick in general though. If you are someone who chronically gets the flu and you are not allergic to eggs maybe it would not be a bad idea but if someone never gets it I don't see why they would need one.

[cmd]

25. I just got mine today

My husband has COPD. The shot was just as much for his benefit as it was for mine. Think of it as an investment in world health. If you can avoid getting the flu,
you won't be able to pass it along to others. You might be able to save a life just by getting immunized.

[Mike03]

26. Your situation is extremely close to what mine is.

That's very close to it. Are you okay with this? You don't feel emotionally blackmailed?

[Hekate]

29. Goodness. As hinted in my post below, "emotional blackmail" is far from my mind.

When I know that my getting sick could kill my husband or his mother, why would I even want to go there? I love him with all my heart, and my MIL is a frail old lady.

I believe I am behaving in a responsible manner.

Hekate

[Mike03]

32. Thank you for your opinion--it means a lot

There are aspects to this story I have not shared, so it's not as simple as you may think.

[cmd]

77. I'm fine with the decision

I'm a retired teacher. I worked in a germ factory - a kindergarten classroom. It was in my interest and the interest of all my kids that caused me to get a flu shot every year.
You, of course, have to make up your own mind. For me it was easy. I don't want to get the flu. I don't want to subject my husband to the flu. AND I don't want to have to take
care of him if he gets it. (I will, of course, but he's not a good patient.)

[Bitwit1234]

27. I have taken the flu shot for the last seven years and had no ill effects

maybe it only has ill effects for some people.

[Hekate]

28. When I was a young thing I only got the flu every 5 years or so. Then one year ...

...when I was middle-aged I got the flu and then while my immune system was low I got pneumonitis too.

Did you know that the death-rate for pneumonia has remained steady for the past 35 years? (according to an article in the LA Times several years ago) In other words, pneumonia can still kill you, just not as much as 50 years ago.

As a consequence I took my doc's advice and started getting a flu shot every year, and a pneumonia shot as advised.

My husband's immune system is compromised -- he takes an immunosuppressant medication for a chronic condition -- and he DEFINITELY needs his flu shot every year. He teaches college, and all kinds of people cough on him.

My mother in law is in her 90s and frail. Flu could quite easily kill her.

It's a mostly-preventable disease, and the complications can be deadly for the elderly, the very young, and the immune-compromised. Sometimes healthy people get taken down by it too.

Up to you.

Hekate

[Mike03]

33. Thanks for sharing this

I actually would get the pneumonia shot, because I do have a history of getting walking pneumonia, especially if I get back into running.

That is probably a risk I would take.

[pnwmom]

72. The pneumonia shot protects against bacterial pneumonia, which

is different than walking pneumonia.

Avoiding the flu will reduce your risk for viral or walking pneumonia -- and also your risk for bacterial pneumonia.

[Breeze54]

30. The flu shot is better than pneumonia and dying!

GET IT!!!

[Raine]

31. A friend was recently ordered to get one and ended

up sicker than a dog, missing a whole week of work and still feeling poorly. I've never had one and I've never had the flu either. I would never let them pump that crap into me.

[Breeze54]

37. Your friend was probably already sick before the shot.

Probably was exposed to some virus a few days before that.

[Mike03]

34. I Deeply Appreciate All of this Input

I apologize if I'm a little bit belligerant about this, but there are some aspects of how it was presented to me that I would rather not expatiate, but I'm confident that many of you, if you knew the facts, would be equally bristley about this.

The main thing is, many of your posts have alleviated my fear about the potential health risks of the flu shot. Thank you.

[Mike03]

35. After I receive this shot, to be on the safe side, should I avoid

close proximity to people with low immunity for two weeks??

[Breeze54]

38. No! Why would you need to do that?

I had the shot because my Dad was elderly and ill, to protect him

from getting sick and I saw him everyday and I went to work everyday too!

[Mike03]

39. Thanks. I asked the question because the literature on the shot

says it takes two weeks to assimilate into the body, and that the side effects from the shot can last that long.

[Breeze54]

43. You cannot get the flu from a flu shot !

The flu shot: The viruses in the flu shot are killed (inactivated),

so you cannot get the flu from a flu shot.

Some minor side effects that could occur are

* Soreness, redness, or swelling where the shot was given
* Fever (low grade)
* Aches

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

[Mike03]

36. Re-asking: After I receive the shot, am I potentially infectious

to others for the first two weeks after injection?

Thanks for the help.

[Breeze54]

40. No!

Key Facts About Seasonal Flu Vaccine

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

[Mike03]

41. Thank you.

Okay, thanks to all of you, I'm comfortable getting the flu shot.

Thank you.

[pnwmom]

42. After three years of flu that turned into viral pneumonia,

I started to get the flu shot every year.

Presto -- no flu (or pneumonia) for more than 10 years. And hardly any colds either.

Good luck!

[orleans]

63. gee--after reading this thread maybe i'll call my doctor and see if i can

get one. i'm prone to pneumonia and it's been a couple years since i got a shot for that too. humm....and i'm around kids all the time. maybe i should make that call tomorrow.

[pnwmom]

71. The pneumonia shot lasts for several years but doesn't protect against

viral pneumonia or walking pneumonia. On the other hand, viral pneumonia and bronchitis often start with the flu, so if you get the shot maybe you can nip all that in the bud.

I've been amazed at the difference since I started getting them.

[Mike03]

44. I give up: I'll get the fucking shot. NT

[The Straight Story]

45. I have had it before

And it went really well for me. I can't speak for others, but those personally I have known that have had it are ok so far (last one I had was about 10 years ago).

I can't make a decision for you, but I can say the worst that I have seen from it is someone getting flu like symptoms for a few days after the shot.

Hope that helps in some small way :)

[Mike03]

46. Yes, your post helps. Thank you.

I'm sure it's safe and fine to get a flu shot.

It just irritates me how judgmental and "certain" some people are that the shots are safe, yet they have no evidence against the scholarly studies that suggest the shots are dangerous.

Anyway, I'm just going to stop doing research, hope for the best, and get the god damn shot.

[Breeze54]

48. Your Alzhiemers quote is debunked on Urban Legends!

http://www.themediadesk.com/files/hg.htm

Someone is sending out hoax e-mails about the flu shot and Alzheimer's!

Don't believe it! :hug:

[Mike03]

50. Ah, thank god, that is great news.

Thank you. I was wondering if it was bogus (and hoping it was) since it was the same geneticist quoted over and over.

Thank you!!!

EDIT: I even checked Scopes thinking it would be false, but there was nothing there.

[trotsky]

82. Having gotten a nasty strain 8 years ago...

that totally knocked me on my ass for over a week, I have gotten a shot every year since. There is no way in hell if I can prevent it, that I would want to go through that torture again. My fever topped out at 104, and potentially could have gone higher if I had not been doped up on DayQuil.

Plus I have two small kids now and limited vacation time. I literally can't afford to get sick for that long again.

You will be fine, it's a good thing for your health, and it's a good thing for the health of those you spend the most time around.

[woo me with science]

84. Let us know if you get autism. nt

[Mike03]

51. I trust the advice I've received here. Thanks.

[rainbow4321]

52. The hospital I work for

is having workers who refuse the flu shot sign a refusal statement and it goes in the employees' "permanent record", whether it's because they can't take it (i.e allergic to eggs, etc..) or just don't want to get it.
I'm far from a flu shot expert but I can tell you that the hospital is offering/giving the flu shot to as many of it's HIV/AIDS patients as possible and so far none have come back with reports of "coming down with the flu".

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

53. I used to get sick as a dog at least yearly with flu.

It ripped me apart for a week at a time.

In the fifteen years since I got my first flu shot I haven't been sick with flu ONCE. And I'm on medication that affects my immune system- if there were cause for alarm my doctor wouldn't allow me to have the vaccination at all. This year I got the flu shot the same day I got my other medication (Remicade, administered via IV drip over a 2 hour session).

[JuniperLea]

55. I got one when my Grandma was going through chemo therapy

It was more for her than for me. I haven't had the flu since the mid-70's, and I couldn't tell you when I last had a cold. Even when my kids were little and catching everything their classmates had, and all the rest of the moms were getting it too. Not me. Super mom in that regard. I've often wondered what makes my immune system so resistant... maybe I should be studied! Seriously!

I got the shot for granny, so I could take care of her like she wanted. That is the only reason I'd ever consider getting one.

[kestrel91316]

56. Flu shots aren't dangerous. Don't believe the nonsense

spread endlessly by the anti-science crowd.

[karlrschneider]

57. I think you're way too paranoid.

...

[Cha]

59. If you've been ordered..

does that mean you will get one? I haven't researched it..I've never had one. I just hear from others who have and there are different results so, again, it depends on the individual body.

[seabeyond]

64. my brother in law got his flu shot, then had to cancel his visit cause it gave him the flu

i personally refuse the flu shot. i have had ONE case of flu in 46 years and was 24 friggin hours of throwing up and fever. so not a big deal. plus i dont like the shit in them. plus they guess what flu to cover. doesnt mean all the other flus wont getcha

[Hoof Hearted]

67. Killed virus can't give you the flu. Your bil experience a coincidence.

kind of like calling Sears to come fix your broken fridge, and then it starts working perfectly again 5 hours before the repair person gets there.

[Breeze54]

69. I don't believe that at all.

:silly:

[seabeyond]

79. that is what he says, been gettin it years. mil confirmed, she has gotten for decades

i have heard it before from other people. the doctors in the family didnt argue. mil made a big deal of it to all of us cause she has to apologize a 100 x's, she insists her kids get it and takes responsiblity for all things.

BUT

i dont know shit about it. i personally dont believe in them, like them, want them or do them, so whatever

[shance]

65. Who's ordering you to get the flu shot Mike?

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. They have not used thimerisol ever as far as I know

they are done in chicken eggs and it is a very safe vaccine

Hell, I am glad I got it this year

My hubby was sick as a dog... I just got slightly sick... and that was due to the vaccine.

The only effect I have EVERY year is a sore arm for a couple of days

[Ilsa]

74. The flu shot I had when I was pregnant had thimerosol.

This was backin 1996. I don't know if they removed it from the vax.

[anitar1]

68. I used to resist them but changed my mind a few years ago.

I no longer get the flu but had pneumonia a couple of times and now get pneumonia shots every 4 or 5 years. No problems.

[David Zephyr]

70. My doc insisted that I have a flu shot last year after refusing them all these years.

I did not have any bad reaction. The doc insisted that it is a "killed virus."

I am like you in that I don't like these things. And it seems that the flu shot they give you is never for the flu virus that comes in that season.

I haven't had a flu shot this year. I expect to hear from my doctor soon. Grrr.

[semillama]

75. Oddly enough, my dad has gotten the flu 4 times in his life

All right after a flu shot. That's pretty odd, but I still think it may have been him going into to get a flu shot after being exposed to the flu already. He didn't say when he had gotten them, but the "four times" part makes me think it was when he was in the Air Force in Biloxi, so he could easily have been incubating an active virus at the time of the shot, from being around all those people every day.

Vaccine historians - has the flu shot always used killed flu virus? I don't know much about it, but I do trust the knowledge of those here who actually work in the field.

I too tend to not get the flu either, so I've passed on the shot in the years when there's been a shortage.

[trotsky]

81. The vaccine takes about 2 weeks to induce the proper immune response, too.

So exposure to the flu either before or up to 2 weeks after the shot could still result in a full-blown flu.

[BenDavid]

85. If for any reason the doctor has told you to get the shot

and you are prone to infection and have some underlying condition then you should get the flu shot and along with it the pneumonia shot as well.

[SoCalDem]

87. Never had a flu shot OR the flu

My husband gets a flu shot, and he always gets sick every winter (flu?) ( he does not get sick enough to see the doctor, so it may not be the flu..)

I was blessed with a strong constitution, I guess. ..I rarely get sick..I even drank water from a garden hose in Acapulco..all my fellow travelers were deathly ill and they followed all the tourista rules....one was so ill, that the plane home diverted to Houston and had an ambulance waiting for her :scared:..

[earth mom]

89. Are we living in 1984?

I think your concerns are valid, and it makes me angry when other people think they have some sort of right to control other peoples bodies and lives! :grr:

If it were me, I would resist the shot by all means possible.

FYI-there are lots of naturopathic ways to prevent/treat the flu.

http://www.naturalchoicejournal.com/Articles/oct03/thenaturopathviewoct03.htm