I thought Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars were YEARS away?

[Milo_Bloom]

At least that was the impression I got from Who Killed the Electric Car and some other articles I read, that it was basically a pipe dream being sold as an alternative; however, I just got this link in e-mail.

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/?from=fcx.honda.com


That is a nice looking car!

I am going to sign up to take this for a test drive when it comes in. It is coming out just as the lease is running out on my current car!

WooT!

[sutz12]

1. Are there hydrogen fueling stations in your area?

I didn't see anything in there about that.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. It's in the FAQ

Q. How and where do I fill up the FCX Clarity?

A. A number of hydrogen refueling stations can be found in Southern California with others in development. Honda is also working to develop a Home Energy Station that may eventually supply energy to the home while filling up the car right inside the garage.

[sutz12]

7. Thanx....obviously, I didn't dig that deep.

:shrug:

Sounds great, though. I, too, was pretty skeptical about them, thinking them a teaser.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. I was so curious that I had to find out

[zeemike]

19. I am vindicated

That is exactly what I proposed in a topic I started over a year ago here at DU. And I got mostly skeptical comments.
But the final solution is in that home generated power plant that supples furl for your car as well as your house from Solar and even wind power...no need for a grid at all and a tremendous savings in energy due to the lack of losses in transmission.

[Milo_Bloom]

5. In my area, yes... i am in So Cal.

[ladjf]

16. There were no fueling stations when gasoline powered autos

were invented either. Service follows demand as you well know.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. You got room for that home energy station, or do you live in CA?

[Milo_Bloom]

8. I live in So Cal, Santa Monica basically.

[greenman3610]

4. its a great concept, it costs 100,000 dollars

but the idea of a fuel cell with home fueling
power stations is a fertile one.
The japanese are subsidizing these home
fuel cells, they are expensive now, but will
be competing with regular furnaces for the
US market within 5 years.

[Vogon_Glory]

6. Of Course Fuel Cell Tech Will Come From Elsewhere

Of course the impetus for fuel cell tech will come from abroad, not the US. The US auto companies seem to be scared stiff of offending their oil company "partners" by bringing a technology to market that burns hydrogen instead of gasoline.

Of course one of the problems for any fuel cell auto-owner is going to be the refueling problem. The infrastructure for storing and providing hydrogen fuel is limited to non-existent in many parts of the US and in the rest of the world. Like the earliest automobile owners, he or she is going to find himself out in the wide open spaces where places that sell the juice are few and far between.

[Milo_Bloom]

9. Its gotta start somewhere.

If I can get one, it would probably be the around town commuter car and if we were going on a trip to somewhere else we would have to take the other car...

However, we only put a combined total of 27,000 miles on BOTH our cars in the past 5 years, so it is not like we drive a ton.

[truedelphi]

14. That's the situation for a lot of car owners - many two car families

Use one car for the family member that commutes over 25 miles and the other car is for the family member that works out of the home (or doesn't work), or works nearby.

I used a 1974 VW with a totally bust engine for four years back in the '80's. The car didn't need to go more that 25 miles an hour and it didn't need to go more than 10 miles a day.

When the mechanic who told me the engine was shot saw me and the kids in it four years later - he was hurt. Why didn't I go to him to get the new engine?

He never would believe me that my second car just didn't really need a very good engine. (And it being a VW - it still got great mileage and still didn't pollute very much.)

[PollThis]

22. Check this out, I own stock in this company.

http://www.fuelcellstore.com/cgi-bin/tornado/view=Item/cat=5/product=1180

[fenriswolf]

11. saw a great television show

that alan alda did for hydrogen cars, look on you tube for "hydrogen skateboard" i would link it but I am at work at it is restricted. We have the technology, whats missing is

a. the infrastructure (refueling stations, distribution, hydrogen production in mass quantities.

b. efficiently extracting hydrogen from water, right now the process of electrolysis uses up enough energy to almost cancel out switching to hydrogen
(at least thats what I have heard)

[TheMadMonk]

13. And one other slight niggling detail.

There is not enough platinum in the world to satisfy the demands of a hydrogen economy.

[PollThis]

21. Was that the one he did with Stan Ovshinsky of ECD? nt

[fenriswolf]

24. think so

it was 4 am i was really drunk and tired and it was a weird night altogether and then i turned on the tv and saw this cool tv series with the surgeon from MASH and i was completly enthralled, dont remember the specifics but the brute force of it was awsome.

[Paulie]

12. Not a bad looking car

sort of a Godzilla squished Prius with the back end of an Insight. :)

But, here's a small problem:

The FCX Clarity can go about 270 miles before refueling, comparable to the range of an average gasoline-powered automobile (note that it says it's the old EPA method, not the new ones so it's worse...). When you do need fuel, it’s easy and safe to do at one of the designated hydrogen refueling stations in your area. The fill-up only takes a few minutes.

So you either need natural gas service (maybe propane would work?) at your home, or a refill station close by. Wonder what the conversion ratio for natural gas cu/ft to hydrogen is.

This is why Heat Engine Hybrids are still the best place to be today. Put in some ultra capacitors and lithium ion batteries with plug in option, and it would be a long way towards reducing emissions today. Once Mr. Fusion is on the market, just need to rip the gas motor out and you're pure electric. :D

[dysfunctional press]

15. AFFORDABLE ones are YEARS away...

i notice that cost isn't mentioned...does anyone know what the pricetag is?

[lonestarnot]

17. I read 10 estimated in ASU Alum. mag.

[Milo_Bloom]

23. It is in the link.

It is currently $600 per month for a lease that INCLUDES insurance.

[dysfunctional press]

30. how much to buy?

leasing cars is for suckers.

[Milo_Bloom]

31. I don't believe they are offering that option at this time.

As for leasing... get a new accountant... I used to buy, now I only lease.

[dysfunctional press]

32. i always buy, but never new.

and i tend to put a lot of miles on my cars, which i generally keep at least 6-7 years before replacing.

btw- at the end of the 3 years, what have you got to show for those $600 monthly payments?

[Milo_Bloom]

34. Yeah, if you do high mileage, not as good.

I do very low mileage driving, less than 4K per year.

In my case, leasing allows me to write off the entire cost of the car, whereas I wouldn't be able to if I did a mileage or even depreciation deduction.

Also, at the end of the period, the car (at least my last 2) are worth more than their buyouts, due to the low mileage.

[Eurobabe]

18. Good looking car! Come to Europe with this Honda!!

[ThomWV]

20. The problem isn't with building the car, its in producing the Hydrogen

Where do people think the hydrogen is going to come from? I know, its going to come from water; that's the stock answer you always get. The people who say it don't realize that if you do get it directly from water you have to do so by putting energy into the water in the first place - and the question is where does that energy come from? The answer, burning coal. Actually, the way it will really be done if anyone is foolish enough to persue it will be to process the coal directly and get your hydrogen directly from it. Either way a hydrogen economy means more coal used. No matter how you use coal it is dirty. End of story.

[Milo_Bloom]

26. Always hated this type of argument

They use it in the Ethanol debate as well and it makes as little sense there as it does here.

In the Ethanol debate we are told that Ethanol is NOT cleaner burning BECAUSE they will have to use farm equipment that currently runs on gasoline to produce it. But this presumes that more efficient methods of collections will never become available or be used.

The only way we continue toward this type of research http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11075 is if there is a real DEMAND, the only way you create a real demand is by having a need.

There is not going to be an instant overnight solution, since all forms of energy need to be produced. Electric cars need electricity, which will be supplied by current dirty solutions. Biodeisel cars will need to have whatever crop or byproduct is used to be produced, which will require current dirty solutions.

Hydrogen, like electric cars, bio-diesels, etc.. don't solve the problem overnight, but they move us toward a solution.

[Maven]

33. Right, and it's more efficient just to use the electricity to run the car. nt

[PollThis]

25. What about the Chevy Equinox? Link

http://www.chevrolet.com/fuelcell/
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071028/BUSINESS01/710280603/1002/BUSINESS

[TheWraith]

27. That movie takes a lot of liberties with the truth.

I'm as big a fan of electric cars as anybody--I think they have a lot more potential and are easier to deal with than hydrogen--but that movie seems to lean heavily on the conspiracy theory angle, as opposed to the business-based realities and the limitations on the first generation electric cars.

Personally, I'm still waiting for the Tesla White Star, but that's a cool car there, no doubt.

[Initech]

28. If I lived in one of the test areas, I would totally get one of those.

[goforit]

29. Hydrogen gas stations will be a necessity.