Clinton stands behind centrist stances

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

And, here I thought that Hillary was supposed to be tough. Apparently, she's tough standing up to the left, but terrified of the Republicans.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/11/23/clinton_stands_behind_centrist_stances/5469/

WASHINGTON, Nov. 23 (UPI) -- U.S. presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., has kept her centrist policies despite increasing attacks from her Democratic rivals.

Clinton, who recently fell behind Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., in a poll in Iowa -- site of the nation's first nominating contest -- is standing by relatively centrist and right-leaning views, including her recent Senate vote in favor of designating Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization, despite heavy criticism from Obama and other leading candidates, The Wall Street Journal reported Friday.

Aides said Clinton is reluctant to give up her positions for those popular with left-leaning voters for a number of reasons, including concern that Republicans would pounce on the issues during the general election race and fear of being stuck with insincere campaign promises if she makes it into office.

"If I do what you all want me to do, I'll look great for the next couple months," a Clinton insider quoted the candidate as saying recently when pressured to move to the left on an issue. "But what if I'm the nominee? I'll be ripped apart by the Republicans. And what if I'm the president? My hands will be tied."

[maddiejoan]

1. she's correct.

your snarky evaluation of her observation notwithstanding.

[tom_paine]

4. Yeah, she's a regular FDR.

Remember how FDR wanted the New Deal, but it was too liberal and he caluclated it would cost him too much personally, so he shelved it?

And FDR is generally considered to be in the 4 or 5 greatest Presidents ever!

I will vote for Sen. Clinton in Nov. 2008 if she is the nominee, but I have no illusions about her.

[FreakinDJ]

8. You mean FDR would support these "Free Trade" agreements

more like he is turning in his grave

[maddiejoan]

9. FDR didn't campaign with the New Deal --

--though the term was later used to describe the popular social programs, it was not what Roosevelt was spelling out in his famous campaign phrase.

FDR was probably the USA's greatest President, but in order to get elected --

He cut deals with the corrupt Tammany Hall machine in order to secure the Democratic nomination.

Likewise, he was supported by such corporate interests as William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Kennedy.

During the campaign it was often thought that FDR and Hoover were reading each other's lines --there was that little a difference between their campaign rhetotic.



If you are arguing that HRC's campaign tactics don't match up with FDR's --you would actually be very wrong.

The respective tactics are amazingly similar.

[tom_paine]

2. So fearful. So frightened of The Bushie Mighty Wurlitzer.

And this is supposed to be our Democratic Lion, who is going to battle the Bushies like Churchill battled the Nazis, for Liberty and our Constitution.

:wtf:

If this story is true (and it may not be), it is nothing less than I would have expected, quite frankly, from ANY of our Democratic Leaders these days.

You know what's REALLY scary? Sen Clinton may well be among the two or three of our "toughest" candidates, in terms of bringing the fight to the Bushies.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

3. What does centrist

mean? The political system has now been pushed quite far to the right so what is now considered centrist would've been considered conservative years back. Think Goldwater girl with a few extra rings and bells.

[Evergreen Emerald]

5. afraid of the republicans? Have you forgotten the 90's?

She survived the onslaught and barrage of constant inane, lying, horrific attacks on every aspect of her being. Afraid? Naw.

[niceypoo]

6. Ripped apart by the republicans?

That would happen to any democrat who gets the nomination, it's what republicans do. Republicans gone wild isn't a, "Clinton thing." Had Kerry or Gore taken office the republicans would have gone bezerk and attempted to impeach them. It is all the republicans have anymore. I will say that Hillary probabally has the thickest skin of all the candidates.

[FreakinDJ]

7. You mean "Business as Usual"

which is....

[EFerrari]

10. There's something wrong with this story.

Qui bono? It pisses off the base and strokes the Republican base. I'm no fan of the Senator but something is funny here. :shrug:

[tom_paine]

14. That is definitely possible. So much info, so little brain space in my head.

I believe I read somewhere that the Moonies now had control of UPI.

Which is why this story may have been planted using anonymous sources that cxan;t be confirmed.

We all know the Bushies have LEGION of fact-checkers out there who would catch this lie of a story immediately, if it was a lie, and terminate it. :puke: :rofl: :puke:

That's why, in my first posts, I qualified my statements with "if this story is true".

Unfortunatly, what IS true, even if the story isn't, is that Sen. Clinton is running away from the liberal base.

Maybe, as many suggest, this is wise strategy, like the Democratic Congress refusing to prosecute as single of the many felonies they have uncovered, nor to stop nor even slow down the progress of the war (it's escalated since Jan. 2007), or any other of the "wise strategies" that seem to us Filthy Little Nobodies as capitualtion and surrender of the Founding Fathers' vision and end the American Experiment in Filthy Little Nobodies participating in our own governance.

[EFerrari]

16. "True lies"

Lol, oh dear.

[tom_paine]

17. Well, we know it is a Bushie Tactic. It's what they did to Dan Rather.

Think about it. The perfect setup. What better way to disarm a traget by providing them with a false set of facts to mimic the truth, but with the "tciking time bomb" of a discrediting flaw contained within.

Remember the 60 Minutes interview with the deceased Alabama Guard Commander's Secretary? The fradulent memo fully mimicked the Commander's feelings, so anywhere Dan's staff went to confirm these True Lies, they were confirmed, only further redcuing his "guard being up".

Damn, I'd LOOOOVE a few hours to peruse the CIA Library on Pyshcology, Mind, and Propaganda for Population Control.

They arte some smart and evil Bushie bastards, aren't they?

I only wish the whole thing was a joke, a bad dream from which we will awake.

[EFerrari]

20. This seems to be exactly what they did to Rather

Now they're transparently Dan Rathering all of us.

[BlueJac]

11. Fuck her..............

I am looking for leadership with vision of a new direction. America is ready for a change and ready to cast off this neo-con Bull Shit. More of the same will be the end of this country! What's left of it!!

[tom_paine]

12. T_y_L, you just noticed this?

My God, it's the pattern we've been observing for seven years or maybe as many as 25!

Primate psyhcology. Big monkey smacks smaller monket smacks smaller monkey smacks smaller monkey who kicks the sand in frustration.

Hillary is frustrated, and sure maybe she'd like to give the Bushies a smack but they hit back so HARD, so damned, MEAN, and so THOROUGHLY with billions of slush dollars at their command, it wouldn;t be personally or politically wise for her to do that.

But why NOT give a kick to those wh all are now programmed daily to despise (not that all do, but the MSM is basically a 24/7 commercial of disniformation, half-truths carefully harvested for their misleading omission in the furtherance of Bushie goals, and lies, most directed at discredting progressivism or what is now carrying the meager banner of the anti-BushPutinist coalition).

It's easy and it's consequence free.

For me personally, what is shriekingly ironic is that, personally, before all this started I was a centrist myself, trusting neither side, wishing neither side a free hand, believing in the Founder's vison of the competing factions countering each others'natural human tendecies for corruption by power. And yes that meant (at least until their adherence to totalitarian and tyrannical values became crystal clear in the 90s) voting Republic Party sometimes.

I still am, or try to be, a Centrist. I will never embrace the Far Left's complete disdain for Capitalism, as an "FDR Democrat" I believe capitalism is not a wholly corrupted enterprise, not even close, when regulated and monitored. It is a tool, like a shovel, and is only as good or bad as the hands wielding it.

I digress. The reason I brought this up is to say that, as a Left-Centrist, in a strong and healthy republic, I may well line up with Sen. Clinton philosophically, but it is not a strong and healthy republic right now, and a furtehr dose of the status quo is most definitely NOT what we need, when the Bushies just come in and redefine the status quo at will.

I would not have believed that reality could be washed and reconstructed so thorougly by the Bushies. I don't think anyone ever conceived what powerful tools psychology, advertising, PR, and marketing put in the hands of our Rulers to neutralize us.

On that level, this statement shows Sen. Clinton to just be one of many many millions of us whom the Bushies have non-lethally neutralized.

It is a pity. Sen. Clinton is s strong, intelligent woman, and I think she would make a fine President of Old America, if it still existed.

[EFerrari]

13. This is how I believe Clinton thinks but the writing doesn't sound like

her but like a caricature of her. Sourced by our good friend Anonymous, too.

Edit: what a terrible sentence that is. sorry

[tom_paine]

15. I agree, see Post #14.

Want to know what sucks about living under BushPutinism as a Peasant (well, one of many things that suck)...not knowing which "trusted news source" is someone's propaganda orifice.

:puke:

Behind the Televised Curtain of Imperial Amerika, I saluter the remaining Free World! Kepp up the fight in your own countries, people, because BushPutinism is coming and it likely already has it;s authoritarian tendrils in your nation, destroying your democratic traditions slowly from within, pleading poverty or necessity for it's escalating depredations of Liberty.

France and Canada, I'm looking at yoooooouuuuuuuuu......

[EFerrari]

18. I busted the NYT, LAT, WaHo and Miami Herald last week.

From now on, unless there is real sourcing that can be verified, I don't believe it. Especially when it sounds like The Onion. :)

This story, if it is a plant, is masterful. Because if you're already pissed off and you skim it, your only conclusion can be an expletive -- "Dammit!" from the Left, and "Damn right!" from the Right.

[tom_paine]

21. The more I think about it, the more you are correct. Off to Google who owns UPI these days...

http://www.rickross.com/reference/unif/unif74.html

Surprise, it is Uber-Crazy-Bushie Evil Tyrant Rev. Moon and his Bushies who own it!

And I got suckered in. :dunce: Propaganda is so damned insidious these days.

Not that it will keep me from voting for Sen. Clinton in November 2008, but still, no one does propaganda like Bushies.

No one. Ever. In history.

This, whatever it is they have created, will one day be named, for now it has no "official" name. But it is new and it is several orders of magnitude more sophisticatedand powerful than anything authoritarian human beings have ever created to wage a war of the mind, against their fellow citizens.

It has literally reengineered reality, and driven a nation mad.

And this little thread was a little vortex, a side storm, one of millions amongst the hurricane that bears down on us and rewrites history every day more effectively and in plainer sight than Orwell ever dreamed.

[EFerrari]

24. I did, too. But it was just a little over the top in the frank way

it confirmed my worst fears about the Clinton campaign. When was the last time Clinton conceded anything? They don't do concession, do they?

Last week, I ran across a story that said the military in Venezuela would revolt if the referendum to amend the constitution passed on 12/2. The sourcing looked good. It was a retired high ranking officer who seemed credible enough and who told stories about a breakdown in discipline and anti-Chavez leaflets being distributed surreptitiously at the biggest base. There were also an analyst, a Venezuela expert. The third source was a Chavez "critic". Okay.

When you track down these three guys, they are all right wingnuts. The retired officer was part of the 2002 coup and now lives in Miami. If you search for the writings of the "analyst", they only come up on some pretty extreme rw sites. The Chavez "critic" has called for armed insurrection and starred in a Fox News hit piece.

These people are not objective "observers." But, there's no way to know unless you push beyond their credentials a bit. Who has time to do that?

We can't just read the news any more. We have to decode it.

[tom_paine]

25. Behind the Televised Curtain of Lies of Imperial Amerika.

That's where we live.

Like the Iron Curtain, but far less violent (Thank God), plus our blonde anchors are hotter and we have CELEBRITY NEWS! (cue calliope music)

I think you have said it about as well as it could be said, for us or for anyone living behind a totalitarian curtain of any kind.

"Decode it". And one day, if these trends remain unreversed, we won't even be able to do that, as the grains of truth themselves will disappear.

[JackRiddler]

19. calling these positions left or center is purest, dishonest spin

Each issue is what it is, there is no inherent "left" or "center" position and to pretend that Clinton's pro-imperialist stances on Iraq and Iran are "centrist" (or, for that matter, "popular") is sheer apologia. Don't let her PR crew control the terminological framing.

[mmonk]

22. If you believe the right has valid talking points,

I guess that's the position you have to take.

[dysfunctional press]

23. Fuck. Her.

in the ass, sideways...

i will NEVER under ANY circumstance cast a vote for hillary clinton.

[emilyg]

26. I'll vote for her in your place.

[dysfunctional press]

31. and i'll vote for someone else in your place.

nice how it all balances out.

[Skip Intro]

28. classy.

[rhett o rick]

29. Pleez don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. nm

[MetaTrope]

27. We can only hope that she's as compulsive a liar as Bush

And immediately upon taking office, will shed her centrist stance to ram through mountains of progressive legislation.

[rhett o rick]

30. You are definitely an optomist. nm

[rhett o rick]

32. Does a centralist want to end the war immediately? Repeal the Patriot Act

and the Military Commissions Act? Does a centralist want to end torture and secret prisons? How about the women and children imprisoned in Taylor TX? Would a centralist continue breaking the FISA laws and fourth Amendment? How about health care for children and fair benefits for veterans? I do not know what values are centralist.

WOULD SOMEONE PLEZ explain to me the difference between centralist and leftist??

[cascadiance]

33. AKA he stands by Korporatist stances!

Doesn't want to offend those that give them their big pile of campaign financing dollars! No, no, NO! Can't do that!

[creeksneakers2]

34. If Hillary isn't going to go with the far left views

its very responsible of her to say that up front. Making only the promises that can be kept is honest. Most candidates slide to one side for the primaries then back to the middle for the general election. Hillary isn't going that route. She's the most trustworthy candidate. Too few in the public see that.