Exclusive audio: Kucinich considers GOP Ron Paul as his running mate

[stuartrida]

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/11/exclusive_audio_kucinich_consi.html

[mmonk]

1. Why don't we consolidate all the Kucinich/Paul threads

into one?

[rox63]

2. I think this means DK has gone around the bend... n/t

[Democrat 4 Ever]

3. That Kucinich would even THINK this much less actually say it

OUT LOUD he would consider Ron Paul is enough of a reason to completely write off Dennis as anything other than a joke candidate and therefore should be discarded from my consideration. You can be quirky, funny and smart and be a good candidate. You can't not also be howling at the moon, batshit crazy and enjoy a viable candidancy. Dennis just started howling.

*Edit - Out, out damn typos.

[mmonk]

6. So HRC saying she might bring Colin

(dog and pony show to the UN to sell the lies for war) Powell into her administration if elected is perfectly fine?

[Democrat 4 Ever]

7. How did HRC get into this thread? I said nothing about HRC?

That's what people always do - change the subject if they can't stand to discuss their candidates nuttiness. Dennis has joined my list of candidates I will not support. Hope he and Gavel makes themselves at home.

I'm still considering and pondering everyone else and will make an informed, studied selection based on all information available before I enter my primary booth. The information I have now have available on Kucinich justs narrows the field by one for me.

Ya gotta be honest - Kucinich really pulled a stupid move with the Ron Paul thing.

[mmonk]

11. I was just wondering where all the posts were of a democratic

politician running for president bringing on board a republican that sold us the Iraq disaster. Isn't the general theme that DK is a nutcase for considering Paul? I'm searching for consistency in standards of outrage concerning candidates.

[Cha]

17. I know you're

not talkin' to me, but the hrc thing with colin powell reeks to high hell and is every bit as stupid/dumb as ron paul on the Kucinich ticket, imo.

[mmonk]

22. Thank you.

I'm glad someone else besides me was taken back from it (and I believe she is considered the front runner and sane).

[Cha]

25. Programmed...

Scary!

[mmonk]

27. ?

[Cha]

32. I was hoping

you'd get it :).. you said considered "sane".. I said, "programmed"(as in she is), "scary". N'est-ce pas?

[mmonk]

37. Thought so.

Just making sure (sometimes I'm slow on the uptake).;-)

[Cha]

38. I can totally

relate. ;)

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. Much better that having a Republican one heartbeat away from the Presidency

[mmonk]

24. Is this a contest?

[dysfunctional press]

49. MUCH different.

"into her administration" DOES NOT mean 'next in line for the presidency'.

[Marrah_G]

70. Frankly if I HAD to choose I'd rather Powell then Ron Paul. n/t

[mmonk]

4. .

[stuartrida]

9. Because this audio should hopefully (though you never know)

settle the argument over whether Dennis was actually considering Paul as a VP.

[mmonk]

26. Fair enough. I'll give you that.

Of course it could be attached to any of the various threads on the subject though.

[book_worm]

5. I'm reconsidering my primary support from DK to Edwards due to this

why? if he would consider an anti-choice, hard line right-winger who is a nazi on immigration as his running mate, even if Paul is right about the war, then I question DK's devotion to other issues. There are plenty of anti-war Dems he could pick--like Russ Feingold.

[lvx35]

15. Kucinich is playing this card because Paul, like him, was right on the patriot act and the war

the first time. When John Edwards was given the option to approve an illegal war, he said yes Paul said no. When Edwards was given the chance to vote on the constitution nullifying patriot act, he voted yes. Paul voted no.

So if you are for the war and patriot act, then you should vote for Edwards. Otherwise, you should not be pissed off at Dennis for playing this card, and revealing that Edwards and Clinton are MORE WITH BUSH than Ron Paul, a republican candidate. Its a good card to play, so give Dennis a little credit.

[book_worm]

19. No I am pissed off at him for playing this card.

There are plenty of anti-war dems he could list as people he would like to run with him. If it's a ploy to gain him more votes (apparently he has noticed all the support on-line that Paul has gotten as well as media attention) then I think it has backfired.

[lvx35]

40. Now that I think about it, maybe you're right.

Its kind of an ass move. Dennis was on an interesting track, to become a serious VOICE in the Democratic party. His running could have the effect of watering down the opposition to Hillary, but even whie doing this, he was advancing an ideological purity that was an important part of the Democratic mix. A large number of votes for Kucinich in the primaries would have sent a powerful message about what we expect for candidates and his level of involvement, even if he didn't win. But in playing this card, he puts the top Dem and Republican candidates in the same boat with the war and patriot act, and himself in the same boat with Ron Paul. This diminishes his capacity to be a serious voice in the democratic mix, and defeats the purpose of supporting him to "send a message" to the winners.

And its just not ideologically cohesive. Maybe this country needs a centrist third party which would take votes from republicans and democrats equally, and I wouldn't be opposed to such a thing. If Kucinich and Paul want to leave their parties work together to create such a thing, more power to them. But they have to actually create a shared ideological framework, which they don't currently seem to possess.

But then another part of me asks if right and left actually mean anything anymore. If our candidate, once elected, proceeds to continue to advance domestic spying and the invasion of peaceful foreign countries, the form that the opposition takes to them is irrelevant, just as it was when Soviet Russia and the USA teamed up to fight Russia. We've got to know where our candidates stand on these important issues.

[B Calm]

8. I'm definitely going full out for Edwards now!

[Cha]

14. Eyyiyi! I was hoping

it was just something Elizabeth Kucinich has said and not what Dennis would actually want. No more pukes in the whiteout house. I'm really glad ron paul wants our Soldiers home from Iraq but there's gotta be a way to do that without ron paul in the white house.

[originalpckelly]

10. Now that is very interesting.

Very interesting.

I think it's very sad that Rep. Paul turned the idea down, because they do indeed have a very similar foreign policy stance. I like that part about an eagle needing two wings to fly.

[Renew Deal]

12. Wow. He said it himself unprovoked.

:wow:

There is a fundamental difference between Kucinich's and Paul's anti-war stance. Kucinich is a peace candidate. Paul is upset the Constitution is being violated.

[scarletwoman]

13. I need a transcript, I'm on dial-up and can't do audio (much less video) files.

I would also like to remind you that whatever it was that Kucinich said, it was said on Sunday, and this is Wednesday. There have already been multiple threads about this story for days.

Frankly, I think it's absolutely idiotic to NOT make some attempt to get some dialogue going with Ron Paul fans, who are largely young and very newly political. Do we believe in our values strongly and sincerely enough to reach out to those who feel equally as disenfranchised and ignored as we do?

If you want this country to change for the better, then you need to understand that the changes HAVE to happen among the masses FIRST.

Fomenting hysteria over the possibility that Dennis Kucinich might have Ron Paul cooties demonstrates a very unfortunate lack of political sophistication.

sw

[Renew Deal]

16. Try to right click and save this file

Right click and "Save Target As" to Desktop. Then wait patiently. It's around 3MB.

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/11/kucinich.mp3

[scarletwoman]

23. Sorry, it's just not that important to me. If someone wants to post a transcript, fine. If no one

does, that's fine too.

If Kucinich was proposing an alliance with Ron Paul, I find that not only perfectly acceptable, but laudable as well.

sw

[Renew Deal]

28. I would if I had one.

He was asked if he was thinking about a running mate. He says (unprovoked) that he was considering Ron Paul because of how anti-war he has been since the beginning.

[scarletwoman]

29. Thanks. I stand by what I already wrote about this. It doesn't bother me in the least. (nt)

[skipos]

42. Could you read this and tell me why Paul is a good VP choice

or why progressives shouldn't be bothered by him as a potential VP?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/5/193414/2787

[scarletwoman]

45. It's totally beside the point. Neither Kucinich or Paul will come anywhere near the White House.

My point is, there's nothing bad or wrong about attempting to reach out to Ron Paul supporters. Not the old evil-and-crazy folks like David Duke (he is SOOOOO 80s), but to all these political newbies and naifs who are excited about Ron Paul simply because they can tell that he's speaking some truth.

All this fainting couch and smelling salts crap over DK being smart enough to recognize a possible constituency by attempting to build a bridge on common ground just pisses me off even more than I already am.

There is no war but the class war. I just wish so-called "liberals" and "progressives" would get that through their smug self-righteous heads -- then we might actually have a chance at building a better future.

We're not better or smarter than Ron Paul fans, they've already taken the first step by recognizing bullshit when it's being fed to them. They're pissed off by many of the same things that we're pissed off about. I happen to think that looking for ways to take advantage of that fact is a worthwhile endeavor.

sw

[skipos]

46. I understand your point. But could you still answer my question? nt

[scarletwoman]

47. It's a non-question, like "What if Moby Dick were real and ended up ruling the world?" Irrelevant.

I think a left-wing and disgruntled-libertarian alliance is an idea worth pursuing, if done intelligently.

Furthermore, a world in which it were actually possible to put Kucinich in the White House, would be a world in which people look for that which unites them rather than divides them.

I have no problem with the idea of Ron Paul as VP for two reasons: First, because it's a fantasy. And second, because I think it's not an entirely bad idea due to the opportunities it could bring.

sw

[skipos]

48. Thanks anyway. nt

[scarletwoman]

51. Did you not read my post? I answered your question. Here, I'll re-post it:

I have no problem with the idea of Ron Paul as VP for two reasons: First, because it's a fantasy. And second, because I think it's not an entirely bad idea due to the opportunities it could bring.

sw

[The Magistrate]

53. You Maintain Your Ground Well, Ma'am, And Make A Sensible Point

The class war is the essential element of all politics, and a large proportion of even the most retrograde of Paul's supporters by rights ought to be on our side of it. The enemy understands this perfectly well; it is the leading reason why 'liberal elite', and the 'latte sipping, GQ reading, etc.' personification of 'the liberal' looms so large in rightist iconography. These things are recognition by the opinion leaders of the right that at bottom most of the working class supporters of rightist politicians feel a visceral animadversion to bosses and wealth and the whole 'upper crust' the right is a political engine to protect and preserve and aggrandize against the best interests of working people. Accordingly, they work very hard to get their working class followers to take 'liberals' as the real face of upper class dominance, to shift this innate, and largely inchoate anger away from the genuine plutocracy that exploits their labor, and discards them like so many juiced oranges once they have had all they can extract.

On the more particular question of Rep. Kucinich's recent overtures to Paul, there are two elements worth noting here.

First, given as you say that neither of these men is ever going to come near the Presidency, the matter is not of much real signifigance, and the only real importance it has is as a symbolic gesture of approach from the left to a constituency that we generally disparrage, since we know its denizens generally hate and despise us. It is not as new an idea as many suppose, since a number on the right of this divide have for some years viewed extreme left circles as offering a promising recruiting ground for a libertarian-oriented and isolationist rightist movement, that is frequently tinged with Anti-Semitism: people like Justin Raimondo come to mind as examples.

Second, here locally, people are certainly going to make hay of this development. The tactic of disparraging public figures for 'impure associations' is much too deeply ingrained here, and far too frequently employed by partisans of Rep. Kucinich, for it to be expected that supporters of candidates who have been frequently attacked on this line not to pounce with some glee on the opportunity Rep. Kucinich was so kind as to provide them.

[scarletwoman]

58. I'm not complaining about people "making hay" out of this, it's completely to be expected.

Personally, I'm not much interested in politics at that level, so I get the urge every now and then to declare my rejection of the conventional debate.

All that aside, thank you for your thoughtful post.

Also, it's really wonderful to "see" you (been awhile), and I hope you are doing well.

sw

[onenote]

64. I'm usually with you Magistrate, but not on this one

Ron Paul's philosophy is dangerous and extreme and I think its a mistake for him to be validated by people like DK.

[onenote]

41. if you find ron paul laudable, how do you feel about David Duke

he opposed the war and shares a lot of Ron Paul's views. In fact, Duke's website (which I will not link to) makes it pretty clear that Paul is his candidate of choice.

[scarletwoman]

43. That is absolutely NOT what I said. I said I found "DK's actions" laudable, and I explained why.

It's not about Ron Paul, it's about all the newly politically-awakened young people who really OUGHT to be to reached out to by the committed anti-war and pro-rule-of-law left.

David Duke is nothing if no one pays attention to him. Our task ought to be to make OUR philosophy look more attractive than Duke's philosophy to the people who are attracted to Ron Paul's anti-war and anti-interventionalist message.

Why would you eschew possible common ground when you ought to be out collecting as many allies as possible for the main battle? The main battle is the Class War -- work on winning that first and foremost. Because if the People can win the Class War, the phony manipulated "culture war" will be much less of an issue.

sw

[dweller]

61. i'm only posting here

to stand beside you scarletwoman. You are surrounded by those that jump on any opportunity to denigrate Dennis, regardless of his long history of supporting and working for the rights of the common US and world citizen as a progressive, and those that are so 'pure' that any deviation from a absolutely (D)emocratic path,in their own definition of absolutes, is an abomination.

i actually fear the 2nd group, and pity the first.

This world does not exist on a single plane, or else we'd just be one-dimensional. Instead, we are ideally global, round and bounteous, boundless and bountiful in our true nature.

sad that politics seems to destroy that.
peace,
dp

[magellan]

66. Add my support

I really don't see what the big deal is. If this ticket went ahead and DK won, RP would have virtually NO power as VP. He'd be second fiddle to a progressive President in a NORMAL presidency (they both respect the Constitution, not the Federalist "Unitary Executive" crap and puppet show Bush** & Cheney run) and he would face what I expect will be an even larger Dem majority in Congress. What damage could he possibly do?

I echo your sentiments, dweller.

[scarletwoman]

76. Thank you very much. "Boundless" is indeed the operative concept.

As in not limiting one's thinking to a certain defined template, for one thing.

sw

[onenote]

63. you find DK's action in validating Ron Paul as a legitimate voice laudable

Ron Paul is an extremist cut from cloth very similar to that of David Duke. You are right that if no one pays attention to Duke he is nothing. But what DK is doing is validating Ron Paul when what should be happening is for left thinking people to be ignoring Paul. I will always eschew common ground with bigots and those of Paul's way of thinking.

[NorthernSpy]

79. sorry, but I'll NEVER agree to throw racial minorties under the bus...

... in hopes of picking up a few David Duke voters.


That's out. And so is anyone who contemplates it.

[karlrschneider]

20. Dennis is a lovable little turd but presidential he ain't.

Sorry, Kooch.
;-)

[skipos]

21. There was lots of angry debate about wether he said this

so it is settled now. I can't see how the Dennis defenders can spin this one. Unless they like the idea of Ron Paul. NOT ME. NO THANKS!

[Snarkturian Clone]

30. They will spin it in any number of ways.

The greys made him say it.
It was a sound clip constructed in a dark underground MSM lab.
He meant to say "RuPaul" but slipped.
By "Ron Paul" he means "Joe Ronald Paulius Biden".
It was a hologram of Dennis K, made using the same technology as the plane holograms on 9/11.
He actually meant his New Age faith healer, coincidentally also named Ron Paul.

and so forth.

Then of course you'll start seeing Sig pictures saying Whackjob-Screwjob 2008.

[skipos]

31. Ha!

Your theories are funny but, unfortunately, I think they will start convincing themselves that Ron Paul as VP is a great idea. As I said before, he is right on the war but wrong on just about everything else. So wrong it is scary.

[youthere]

54. ...

RuPAUL 08!:rofl:

[Blackhatjack]

33. It's like watching a slow motion suicide you can't believe is happening and can't stop...

This essentially ends the 2008 Presidential Campaign of Kucinich, whether he admits it or not.

What in the world was DK thinking? Or was he thinking at all?

Ron Paul is no where close to a Democratic Platform in his beliefs -- other than wanting to end the war in Iraq.

Just sad since Kucinich was in a position to promote a number of good ideas to be incorporated into the Democratic Platform.

[Prefer]

34. Sounds like he's throwing in the towel

well I am glad he ran anyway. He represented my sentiments.

[Mike03]

35. Extremely Disappointed, but it makes my job as a voter easier.

Disagreeing on the war is not enough. Hating the Iraq war is not the only issue at stake here.

Even insinuating this marriage of Kucinich and Paul demonstrates despicable judgment.

But I'm glad I know now, instead of six months from now. My list shrinks by one, and my money goes elsewhere.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

36. I was waffling between Kucinich and Edwards and Dennis made my choice for me. I'm voting for Edwards

now.

The tape is not a snippet. It is Dennis saying how he'd like Ron Paul to run with him and why. Although I have admired Paul's stance against the war, his floor speech warning against the neocons, and his stance against the Federal Reserve System, there is no way on this earth that I would want him to be part of the Executive Branch of our Government. He is anti-choice and that means a great deal to. He is against Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other government services that make the difference between life and death. He is heartless.

[KamaAina]

39. Looks like John just picked up two votes

I've always liked what JE says about the 48 states (wait a minute, we got statehood, didn't we? :-) ). The sticking point has always been the war; y'know, how he co-authored the IWR 'n' stuff. Now, it appears that, like millions of Americans, he's having second thoughts.

His vaunted health care plan is kind of cumbersome, though, and puts far too much emphasis on private insurers (the ones who got us into this mess in the first place).

[Liberal In Texas]

60. Me too. I'm out. Go Edwards.

It almost sounds like he's trying to float the idea of a 3rd party candidacy for himself and Paul when both parties choose someone else.

You heard it here first (OK, maybe you didn't.)

[NashVegas]

44. Oh, This Is Just Too Damn Funny

So someone actually feels threatened enough by DK to make an issue of this?

[fascisthunter]

50. They Should Feel That Way

He strikes a cord with voters when they get to know his positions on various issues. I find this funny because he said he was "thinking of Ron Paul" and made a point by saying so, yet some are trying to use this as a wedge issue with Kucinich supporters. A "gotcha" moment.

[OzarkDem]

72. Its about Kucinich's Congressional seat

Pee Dee has been working to keep him from being re-elected in his district for the last several years.

A long time staffer of Sen. George Voinovich wants the seat, but Dennis has been hard to beat. This is just more of their attempt to split Dems in his district so the George Wallace Dems in his district can defeat him.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

52. Who paid to plant this? Are you familiar with this blog? What is your objective,...

,...posting this shit, here?

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. Why does someone exposing the truth about Kucinich so offend you?

:shrug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. It's DENNIS himself talking! Don't blame the messenger! Ron Paul is the LAST person ANY candidate

should be praising! Damn. That's just freakin' ridiculous.

[LoZoccolo]

65. Looks like a Kucinich crumble, lol! n/t

[Marrah_G]

71. Are you trying to say it isn't DK on the tape?

Or are you just irritated that your chosen one jumped the shark?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

73. Listen to the recording. It is not a snippet. It is Dennis giving serious consideration

to Ron Paul. He goes on and on about how advantageous it would be. I have loved Dennis for all he has stood for but there is no way that I could consider Dennis now. This is a Horrible lack of judgment.

[Freddie Stubbs]

74. Poor judgement or simply selling out?

:shrug:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

75. Selling out did cross my mind at some point because Ron Paul is

raising a great amount of grassroots money but I have to rule that out. I really think that it is bad judgment on his (and his wife's part).

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. OMG....There is no way in HELL I will vote for him now. WTF? RON PAUL....THE RACIST CANDIDATE?

You have got to be kidding me? GEEZUSKRIST. What the hell is wrong with our freakin' party? They're INSANE! Ron Paul? That's a non-starter for me. Bye Dennis. No more $$$$ or support from this voter.

THIS should be sent to Kucinich: DAMMIT....

jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Jun-07-07 11:18 AM
Original message
The wisdom of Ron Paul

“If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably-fleet-footed they can be.” (Victoria Advocate, 5/24/96)

“Politically sensible blacks are outnumbered as decent people... Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.” (Victoria Advocate, 5/24/96)

"We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such." (Victoria Advocate, 5/24/96)

“Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action.” (Victoria Advocate, 5/24/96)

“The Criminals who terrorize our cities - in riots and on every non-riot day - are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are.” (Victoria Advocate, 8/7/96)

“There is no such thing as a hate crime.” (Ron Paul: Political Action Report, 1/15/92)

A “free market provides for the poor...” (MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour, 10/24/88 on why he is against government assistance)

"Is bailing out people that chose to live on the coastline a proper function of the federal government?” he asks. “Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?" (Washington Post, 7/9/06) (Paul voted against assistance to Katrina and Rita victims, even though some of his district is on the Texas coast.)

“I am opposed to any form of government health insurance as I am opposed to the taxes, regulations, licensing requirements, and monopolistic practices, which keep health costs higher than their true market value.” (CNN Presidential Questionnaire, 1988)

As for Social Security, "we didn't have it until 1935," Paul says. "I mean, do you read stories about how many people were laying in the streets and dying and didn't have medical treatment? …Prices were low and the country was productive and families took care of themselves and churches built hospitals and there was no starvation." (Washington Post, 7/9/06)

“Something must be done to phase out the government’s involvement in Social Security. Pension and annuity plans should be the concern of the people, not the government. Political control of these things will lead only to bankruptcy and misery for retired persons.” (CNN Presidential Questionnaire, 1988M)

“Immigrants can spread diseases for which we may have no immunity. There is also the question of crime and culture. Many immigrants come from countries with different legal structures and are not willing to behave in the way we expect American citizens to behave.” (Ron Paul Political Report, 3/15/92)

"The right of secession should be ingrained in a free society. There is nothing sacred about large units of government. And there is nothing wrong with loosely banding together small units of government. With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, we too should consider it." From his newsletter in the early to mid 90s--sorry I don't have an exact date.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1061584

[Freddie Stubbs]

67. Kucinich would have this guy one heartbeat away from the presidency

[The Gunslinger]

59. Then I do not consider Kucinich as my candidate.

[Quixote1818]

62. This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard from a Democratic candidate. nt

[Perry Logan]

68. Jeezums peezums. I can only guess he was trying for the alienated-white-guy vote.

[deacon]

69. Sheer madness. Definitely Edwards now. n/t

[MrsT]

77. Ron Paul passed on Dennis' proposal, so Dennis has ruled it out

there are new threads today with the audio. Personally, it doesn't make me feel much better for the whole situation.

[mdmc]

78. kick