Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

So, without illegal aliens how much will food prices go up?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:48 PM
Original message
So, without illegal aliens how much will food prices go up?

Personally I am all for those coming over from Mexico getting paid better even if prices go up but the American people better be careful or they may get what they wish for. Without companies paying people under the table and the abundance of workers who will work for cheep with no benefits prices will most certainly go up. I talked to a friend in Colorado who grows peaches and they are cracking down on the illegals up there and he said prices have gone up quite a bit because of this. He is very conservative but is beginning to change his mind on ending the stream of cheep labor. He doesn't want to pay workers anymore than he already does.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Bush/conservative POV is EXACTLY to keep cheap labor here by way of the
temporary guest worker visa". It is financed by large corporations, the same ones who finance Bush. It (the temporary guest worker bill) is THE REASON Bush brought up immigration in the first place and made it into a national issue. It is touted as some sort of compromise, but in fact is exactly what Walmart, hotels, restaurants, etc. want. cheap labor who cannot be unionized and have no protections, to be imported and exported as the corporations see fit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree 100%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. The (so-called) "Immigration Laws" do nothing more than facilitate Trafficking in Human Labor.
Instead of focusing on those people who desire to make a home for themselves and their families in this country, the overwhelming bulk of those laws and regulations focus on "non-immigrants" who seek (or are sought) to work for some corporation in the U.S., including agribusiness, construction, and the travel & leisure industries. It must be carefully noted that we're talking about EMPLOYMENT and NOT self-employment.

For more than 20 years, it has been the corporations (assisted by their lobbyists) that have determined the laws and regulations governing admission to this country ... without anything even close to adequate enforcement or even a demonstrated ability to enforce.

We cannot have a resolution to this issue unless and until we're committed to actually enforcing such laws - and it's the corporations that impede and block such enforcement. These are the same corporations that require employees to submit to blood tests, supervised piss tests, and background checks (including credit checks) - some prohibiting smoking even at home - who claim themselves incapable of determining whether an employee is legally entitled to work in this country!! WTF!?!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. tahiti, when you're right you're right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. I picked strawberries one summer. . .
doesn't matter what someone gets paid for that backbreaking, sticky, itchy, fly-swarming labor, they're underpaid. So to pay someone what they should make for that work would price strawberries right off my table (and probably most other American tables, too). I imagine it would be the same for a lot of foods.

I do agree with the OP, however: Those who pick and process our food should get a decent wage. I just don't see how some of those jobs could ever be compensated fairly yet keep the food within reach of the majority of peoples' budgets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Read this article from 1995 in The Atlantic
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 10:26 PM by TahitiNut
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/199511/guest-workers

An excerpt ...
The rise in the number of migrant workers in California, along with the growth in the proportion who are illegal immigrants, reflects a national trend that has passed largely unnoticed. During the 1960s it was commonly believed that within a decade there would be no more migrant farm workers in the United States. Experts predicted that technology would soon render migrants obsolete: if a crop could not be harvested mechanically by 1975, it would not be grown in the United States. Census figures lent support to this scenario. Philip L. Martin is a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California at Davis and one of the nation's foremost authorities on farm-labor demographics. According to his estimates, during the 1920s there were some two million migrant farm workers in the United States. During the 1940s there were about one million. And during the early 1970s, when Cesar Chavez's labor-organizing drive among migrant workers was at its height, there were only about 200,000. Then the number began to climb. Today it is impossible to gauge the size of the migrant work force with any precision, among other reasons because so much of it is composed of illegal immigrants. Martin believes that 800,000 to 900,000 migrant farm workers are now employed in the United States. And not only are there far more migrants today but they are being paid far less. The hourly wages of some California farm workers, adjusted for inflation, have fallen 53 percent since 1985. Migrants are among the poorest workers in the United States. The average migrant worker is a twenty-eight-year-old male, born in Mexico, who earns about $5,000 a year for twenty-five weeks of farm work. His life expectancy is forty-nine years.

It should be clear that one of the impacts of trafficking in cheap human labor has been the accelerated demise of the "family farm." After all, how could a family translate their labor into a living income when the corporate farms can (almost literally) exploit throw-away human beings?
When I met Felipe (a pseudonym, as are all the other names presented without surnames), he seemed in bad shape. His clothes were dirty and torn, his face haggard and unshaven. His strawberry field looked like hell too. The rows were littered with rotting berries, old boxes, and soda cans. There were broken irrigation hoses; no plastic enclosed the beds. "Too expensive," he told me. "The company doesn't pay me enough." Nearby, his workers picked "cat-faces"--small, deformed berries--off second-year plants. Rain had seriously damaged the field. Felipe was selling his fruit for twelve cents a pound. He couldn't understand why the price for strawberries for processing was so low, but the terms of his sharecropping contract required him to accept it. "They use us all year as slaves," he said. "They pay us whatever they want to." He promised to send me legal documents proving his claims. The season was just beginning, and Felipe was already $50,000 in debt--half of that amount rolled over from last year. He owed the IRS an additional $5,000. "I can't remember any time I've been in good shape," he said. "I'm always down in the hole." Felipe had been a strawberry picker when his grower approached him one day and asked if he'd like to become a "farmer." Now, after sixteen years as a sharecropper, Felipe owns few assets and is ready to quit.


California never enjoyed a period in which family farms dominated the rural economy, employing hired hands who could expect someday to own their own land. Its society never remotely resembled the Jeffersonian ideal. Monopolistic patterns of land ownership established under Spanish and Mexican rule were unaffected by California's admission into the United States. The vast bonanza wheat farms that emerged in California during the mid-nineteenth century offer the earliest example of modern American agribusiness, a model soon emulated by the state's fruit and vegetable growers. California's agricultural potential seemed limitless. The soil was rich, the climate was almost perfect, and water for irrigation was abundant. All the state lacked was an army of laborers to harvest its apples, melons, oranges, and dates. The historian Cletus E. Daniel has called the initial phase of large-scale agriculture in California "the search for a peasantry." First Chinese and then Japanese worked the fields, until the Exclusion Act of 1882 and the Gentleman's Agreement of 1907 limited their supply. In the early years of this century Mexicans were hailed as the solution to California's perennial farm-labor shortages. The Mexican, it was argued, would not only work hard for low wages whenever needed but also go home when no longer required.


This "race for the bottom" that enriches the already-wealthy will be disastrous for EVERYONE ... but the poorest will suffer the most and die first. The answer CANNOT be "more of the same"!!!

We have been told for more than a decade to bow down before "the market." We have placed our faith in the laws of supply and demand. What has been forgotten, or ignored, is that the market rewards only efficiency. Every other human value gets in its way. The market will drive wages down like water, until they reach the lowest possible level. Today that level is being set not in Washington or New York or Sacramento but in the fields of Baja California and the mountain villages of Oaxaca. That level is about five dollars a day. No deity that men have ever worshiped is more ruthless and more hollow than the free market unchecked; there is no reason why shantytowns should not appear on the outskirts of every American city. All those who now consider themselves devotees of the market should take a good look at what is happening in California. Left to its own devices, the free market always seeks a work force that is hungry, desperate, and cheap--a work force that is anything but free.


Read it. Believe it. This was written 12 years ago. Does anyone think it's gotten better?????

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. There would be no food to pay for...
since agricultural workers are exempt from most labor law in the US, immigrant, usually "illegal" labor has been doing the hoeing and harvesting for at least 50 years.

It's seasonal work, even in Florida and the Southwest, so grabbing labor from wherever it was available was always the norm. For a while, here on Long Island the farm crew chiefs were hitting the men's shelters in NYC, but now it's back to Central America for the crews.

Besides food, little else would get sone ariound here. Over the years most of the resident families have become quite wealthy and a lot of retirees have moved in. That leaves few kids to take entry-level jobs in the trades. Half the kids here wouldn't be caught dead actually working, and there aren't enough who aren't spoiled little shits to cover for them. Most of those would like to be spoiled little shits.

So, also considering that employers are loathe to actually pay wages, except for licensed plumbers and electricians you got Nicaraguans and such doing everything from your yard work to putting on a new roof.

I tells ya, they work like dogs, they do, and do good work.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well, if the economy collapses as much as the woe-is-me crowd says it will
There will be Americans who will pick that lettuce for us.

Seriously, if there's a shortage, they will reinstitute a 'bracero' program, like they had in the old days. Same shit, more exploitation, more careful control over migrants. That's it in a nutshell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. if reagan hadn't tightened the immigration laws at teh border -- and people were allowed to come and
GO -- as they did previous -- little of this immigration broo-ha-ha would exist.

many migrants don't want to live here full time -- many want to work -- construction what ever and go home again.

that doesn't mean that i don't think they shouldn't be paid a living wage -- however i don't belive in all these restrictions for coming and going for our neighbors from the south.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Nonsense. You're merely arguing for a return to the "brasero programs" of the past.
It's a ridiculously simplistic viewpoint (imho) that ignores the abuses then ... and now. Read the article I posted above from a 1995 issue of The Atlantic.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. actually all i'm arguing is that the continued residence
of these workers changed when we tightened the borders.

many of these people would like to live in their homelands.

i have no problem with unionizing these workers -- making corporations pay -- or anything else.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
24HRrnr Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Sure they want to work construction
so did all my buddies who got thrown under the bus in CA. There are no non-immigrant construction crews in San Diego building houses.

A living wage is alot less than union wages. And the union is dead, dead, dead.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
13. you could triple the wages, and produce prices would barely even budge...
This is because only a tiny fraction of the price of, say, a head of lettuce represents the cost of field labor.


Seriously -- it's just a few pennies at most.


Most of the price of an item of produce in the supermarket represents the cost of overhead, shipping, stocking, profit-taking, etc.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC