Maybe you don't know any lazy @ssh@les, but I do.

[IdaBriggs]

I've talked about this guy before. He votes Republican, but claims he's a Libertarian. He's married to one of my best friends, and its been a HUGE strain on that relationship. During the last twenty plus years that I've known him, he's probably actually WORKED about SEVEN. His wife, however, has held up to three jobs at the same time (early on) while keeping things together.

I will *never* forget the time when they were living in a three bedroom apartment with three other adults -- a couple, and a single guy. Her "man" and the couple were unemployed, the single guy was working, and she was holding down three jobs. When she finished the third at 2:00 a.m. she would go home, DO LAUNDRY (because there wouldn't be a clean towel in the place), and start on the sink full of dishes (because there wouldn't be a clean dish in the place). Then she'd stumble to bed, before getting up at 5:30 a.m. to start the whole thing all over again.

Why she didn't dump him then I'll never know. :shrug:

But she married him, and they had a kid together, and he became "the stay at home dad."

Except she was still responsible for the cooking, the cleaning and the laundry while working her full time and part time jobs; the baby spent most of the time at Grandma's house. I even had the "pleasure" of listening to him go off on her verbally one time because the "house was a mess!" -- she and I got into a BIG fight about that one. ("He was tired!" "No, he's a verbally abusive lazy asshole, and you need to DUMP HIM!" "But he's my daughter's father!" ARGH!)

Financially, their life was a mess. One time my friend was really excited because they were going to receive a large tax refund, and she was charting out all of the bills that could be paid off/caught up, including but not limited to the gas, the electricity, the phone -- you get the idea. She came home, and discovered he'd forged her name on the check, cashed it, and bought a computer "because he was going to make a lot of money on it." She was in tears, but rallied around him again. He became a computer gaming addict, and so did she. Their home was scary filthy. (She was still working two jobs; he was doing the 'stay at home dad' thing, despite the "full time at Grandma's house" that was going on by this point -- their place just wasn't safe for a toddler.)

They bought a trailer closer to Grandma's house. He got a job, and things improved. They paid off their bills, and bought a house. He lost his job. They decided he was going to home school their 3rd grader. Unfortunately, I think I mentioned he's a lazy asshole, and when she returned to the public school system in the 8th grade, she was still at a 3rd grade "everything except reading" level. (She became an avid reader of whatever she could find around her house; her father was playing EverQuest on the computer, and at 18 she still can't do her multiplication tables.)

My friend got laid off. He yelled at her a lot. She took a lower paying job. He wasn't working because of -- who knows why? Habit, I think. The lower paying job laid her off. She couldn't get unemployment because she'd taken a second job for two weeks a year before (cashier at a local grocery store) and quit because she couldn't physically do it anymore. Paperwork needed to be filed, but she became seriously depressed, and NOTHING was being done. They raided her retirement, caught up the house payments and took a vacation. (No, they didn't have an ARM; it was a beautiful three bedroom house, with a full basement, and yes, I suggested roommates/renting out the basement.)

He decided he wanted to be a truck driver, so they took out another $5K in loans, and he spent months getting trained, etc. He did it for three weeks, and decided he couldn't be away from his family that much, so he quit. They all sat home playing on the computer, and it didn't matter how much I begged her to do something -- anything! -- to rectify the situation, they were always "busy." I took her to a bankruptcy attorney twice so they could save the house (we weren't loaning them anymore money), but they were "too busy" to get all of the bills together (please keep in mind they were both unemployed at this point for nearly a year), and here's a shocker: THEY LOST THE HOUSE.

Their daughter was living with the grandparents by this point, and they moved into the basement of a friend's house. He actually went and got a job. He worked for six months, fell asleep at the wheel, got into a car accident, and Had a Headache So Bad He Couldn't Work for the Next Six Months. Then he had a heart attack (at age 40; he's also diabetic, but doesn't eat right/exercise/is overweight) and couldn't work some more. My friend had also rejoined the ranks of the employed, but was making less than $10 an hour (at her height, she'd been making $70K in a management position).

After living in the basement rent free for 14 months, they had saved nothing, paid off nothing, and had no money. They moved into a two bedroom apartment with a roommate. Their daughter was still living with the grandparents, and did so until she moved across country to be with a boy she met on the internet, and had met twice. (Yes, that is me banging my head on the wall.)

Oh, and because "only one of them could work" due to only having one vehicle, we sold them a vehicle at several hundred dollars less than we could have gotten for it, loaned them $300 for taxes, first insurance, and new brakes (fully disclosed as needed), and accepted payments of $100 a month until it was paid off -- except after six months we'd only gotten three payments (only one on time), and found out the car wasn't insured anymore. Instead of repossessing it, my husband told them to keep it (because they were down to one vehicle again, and ours was it.)

I stopped trying to be civil to this asshole during Hurricane Katrina. I had volunteered with the Red Cross for over a decade, and was able to pull some strings to get down there to help out. I asked my friend if she and her husband wanted to come, too, since neither was working. She told me that after talking with him, he said that the people who were still there deserved what happened to them because they hadn't left when they should have, so he wasn't going to go; she couldn't because she was having some health problems.

He's having mysterious health problems again, and hasn't been working again for probably six months. They've applied for Social Security Disability, and been rejected once. They will probably try again. He's 42 years old now, and as I said, he's probably actually worked SEVEN out of the last TWENTY years I've known him. I consider him a parasitical leech, and hold him in utter contempt.

Maybe you don't know any people like this, but I do. There has *always* been some kind of lame "excuse" or reason why every problem they have is "other people's fault" (at least according to the husband).

And you know something? I don't feel sorry for them losing their house. I feel sorry for THEIR DAUGHTER.

Yes, I know that "parasitical lenders" and a bad economy are responsible for a lot of the housing problems, but I also know that not everyone in a bad financial position was doing everything they could to help themselves before things got bad.

I'm not sure how to separate out those deserving my support from the Takers of the World, but I would appreciate it if folks would at least acknowledge that BOTH KINDS EXIST in the world.

:rant:

[Deja Q]

1. I do acknowledge that.

There's nasty people on both sides.

Good people too.

[unpossibles]

2. sadly, I know a guy a lot like this

he's not a friend, but we share some friends and often run in overlapping circles. I am generally civil by ignoring him but the guy is an asshat.

He is a hardcore Republican, yet like your friend has no ethical problems when he needs help from the government (he filed bankruptcy for over a million in assets because he is a failed slumlord), but still insists he is self-made and blames everyone else for his problems.

I stopped being civil when he came to my house one night for a backyard fire hangout, insulted my wife and my friends by calling them druggies, losers, unemployed, ex-convicts, etc., none of which is true. Hell, several of the people there are straightedge. Anyway, I later saw his arrest record, and it was a mile long! Along with the expected real estate issues such as getting in trouble for shutting off his tenants' water and heat, he had domestic violence and DUI charges out the yang.

In short, a typical Republican who projects his own problems onto everyone else.

[CountAllVotes]

3. the wife is the fool

she should have dumped this guy a long time ago. He is irresponsible. I really don't care if he is a Democrat or a Republican. He is an asshole and a loser is the bottom line.

[IdaBriggs]

5. She is a Giver. He is a Taker.

It is the only explanation I can come up with for why she has stayed with this Loser.

He *NEEDS* her.

I am still struggling with my anger over what she has allowed to happen to her daughter because of this situation. The girl has an IQ of over 140, and CAN'T DO MULTIPLICATION. She was seriously neglected by her parents, and I'm not convinced she will be able to recover from it easily.

:mad:

[0rganism]

44. the wife is also the ENABLER

It is only through her support that he can continue his destructive habits. Without her, he would swiftly hit rock bottom, have a face-to-face with Reality, and perhaps begin to rebuild his life. Her goodwill keeps him in a position of weakness and herself in a position of victimhood, in which personal growth becomes impossible for either. Their relationship is fundamentally unhealthy and needs to stop.

[iamthebandfanman]

4. sad that

he couldnt even do the house work.

ive been unemployed for a couple of months(still looking too, trying to avoid min-wage job) and all i do is clean clean clean cook cook cook lol.
gotta atleast keep busy somehow i figure :)

am i a horrible significant other (not married but live with someone) ?

[IdaBriggs]

9. In my opinion (so take it for what its worth) --

if you are in a temporary situation, then you should be kissing the ground of your significant other who owes you NOTHING, and you should be doing whatever it takes to improve the situation.

If "not working" is a way of life/habit, she needs to dump you. She is, after all, doing an on-the-job interview for whether or not you are worth making a lifetime commitment, and every day you aren't bringing in an income, you are a drain on not only her financial future, but also that of her future family.

That rent you aren't paying? Well, that is money she isn't putting away for retirement, or cachunking onto the bills, or even spending on something frivolous for herself.

Its nice you are cleaning the house and cooking though. But if I were her, and didn't see a ring with a date from you soon (as well as hearing regular stories of the resumes you've been putting out/the interviews you've been going on/the plans you've got to supplement your income while your career is in flux), you'd be toast, and a "life lesson" on dumping unemployed guys who take advantage of you.

:shrug:

Sorry if I sound harsh. In my family we were all taught the importance of being financially self-sufficient; one spouse staying home taking care of the family isn't a problem, but what if something happens like a car accident or a coma? Is the family going to end up homeless because only one spouse can earn money? That is NOT how we were raised. The women in my family were taught the importance of being able to financial take care of business, and the men were taught to look for partners. You can decide to have a "stay at home" situation, but it should NEVER be because of a lack of other options, but instead because you are doing what is best for YOUR FAMILY.

Now, if the two of you are making plans for a future together (hence my comment about the ring/date) and agree that a short term financial hit will benefit your family long term (more time looking for a "good job" instead of spending time at a minimum wage job now), then no, I don't consider you a "horrible" significant other. You are a team, working together, and that is what "marriage" is about.

But seriously, dude, if you are living with someone without paying money for more than a month or so, and she isn't your wife, you are treading dangerously close to Userville.

[iamthebandfanman]

39. well

id hope she would determine if im a 'user' or not. does it matter that i also provided for her the last time she was unemployed ? or is a two way street not relevent in this situation because im a guy ? would you suggest a man kicking a woman out for not working ? just curious.

personally, i dont care much for financial gain or money in any sense.

[IdaBriggs]

43. Yup, I'm an equal opportunity "don't use people" person.

So, just reverse the pronouns. :)

And if you don't care much for financial gain or money in any sense, then you probably aren't good husband/father material unless you are willing to turn all of "that stuff" over to her (assuming she is good at it), and assuming that you are willing to listen to her when she says "we can't afford that" (which not all partners are willing to do).

Financial security doesn't just happen; it takes effort and planning. Very few people find it enjoyable (my husband is good at the Retirement stuff, but don't even get me started on the life insurance discussions -- his brain balks, and his plan is that we'll be immortal!), but its something that responsible adults have to deal with.

My own life is a good example of the importance of marrying someone with good money sense -- we had infertility issues, and getting them addressed took money. If we hadn't done the planning, we wouldn't have been able to have children, which we had determined was important to us. Then, when I got pregnant with twins, I ended up on bedrest for 5 months. If we had been dependent on my income, we'd have lost the house. Our twins came two months early even with the bedrest, and thanks to the wisdom displayed by the both of us, and my husband's commitment to taking care of our family, I've been able to stay home and take care of them. (I earn a very nice wage when I work, so its been a sacrifice, but its what is important to us.) It wasn't easy for him -- while our babies were in the NICU he would get up at 4:30 in the morning to visit with them before work, come home at 7:00 p.m. to take me up to the hospital (I would have already been there once during the day with family driving me because of me not being able to drive due to the emergency c-section), and then we would come home late before collapsing into bed to start the whole thing all over again (with me pumping breast milk every three hours all night long). I saw other women at the hospital who didn't have the same spousal support system in place, and I don't know how they did it.

Don't think I'm talking out of my butt here; I'm talking as someone who had to face up to her own "let someone else deal with it" immaturity -- at one point in our marriage I had just "dumped" the finances on my husband, and then had to face the fact I wasn't pulling my own weight by being a part of the decision making process. (I was still bringing in an income, but would get mad at him when there wasn't money for the things I wanted to do, while being oblivious to the expenses we were paying off; not one of my proudest moments!) Those were some tough times in our marriage; being a grown up was hard, but it has definitely paid off.

I don't consider myself a materialistic person, but the reality is that a roof over my head, food in my babies stomaches, and not having to worry about how I'm going to pay for diapers is important to me. We also don't want to be a burden on our children/want to help them pay for college (because schooling is important to us), so we talk with a financial planner guy on a regular basis, and put money away for our retirement (even tho retirement is still a long ways away). And yes, we have a rainy day fund since the automotive industry is a primary source of our income.

But if you don't care about that stuff, and she's okay with that constant level of insecurity, then more power to the both of you; it takes all kinds, after all.

:)

[iamthebandfanman]

52. Welp

i definitely dont agree with ur assesment of my worth based on my love for wealth. i would hope she loved me for how good of a person i was and how i respected and treated her, not how much money i could earn. if she cared that much about money, id probably leave. so she wouldnt have to worry about kicking me to the curb.
i understand the imporantance of being fincancially stable, but being emotionally stable is more important to me(and her id hope).
so far weve had absolutely no problem paying bills and the such. i had some money stashed away for a raining day such as these times.

but im sorry, i think producing wealth or income is a far second to understanding, respect, and love.

[IdaBriggs]

55. Different value system. I want it all, and so does my husband.

I love my husband, and I *know* he loves me. We both worked very hard getting an education/learning our skills/establishing our professional reputations so we could make a good living. It wasn't luck (altho there is always an element of luck in things) as much as it was being willing to work our catuckuses off when we were presented with opportunities, as well as being able to suck up things (like working weekends, or bad bosses, or whatever) while we were learning our crafts/paying our dues. Plus that whole "being dependable and going to work everyday" thing. :)

But if he wasn't the type of guy who got up in the morning even when he didn't want to and go to work, I will be honest -- I wouldn't have much "respect" for him as an adult who makes a valuable contribution to society and our home. (I am not talking about a temporary situation here -- I am talking about a way of life, as demonstrated by my friend's husband with his chronic unemployment.) And if I just yawned, and decided it was okay for the babies to sit in dirty diapers all day long (for example) or thought it was okay to neglect our children in other ways, I don't think he'd have a lot of respect for me, either. We both have *STRONG* work ethics, and that is one of the reasons we are compatible.

Emotional stability isn't even a question for either of us -- well, I have had my moments! LOL! -- its accepted as part of that whole "adult" thing. That isn't to say we don't have normal issues, etc. because we do, but I'm sorry, I think its kind of sad that you don't think its possible to have financial security, understanding, respect and love all at the same time. Perhaps its not something you saw modeled as a child? As in, you believe your parents chose one value system over the other, instead of finding a way to make it "all" happen (which I think of as "normal")?

And please note that I am not talking about "wealth" but "financial security" which can come with any income level. One of my sisters put herself through college working as a waitress. She has two children, still works as a waitress making less than $20K a year, but already has a college fund for her 9 year old son valued at over $18K, substantial "buy a house" savings, and a very nice "retirement fund" growing. And yes, she was a "single mom" for the majority of the time she was doing that stuff. She is amazing!!!

Don't take this personally, but your significant other can probably find someone who will "love, respect and understand her" pretty easily if she decides to look. Finding a man who is WORTHY of respect (who will get up at 4:30 in the morning to visit his children in the NICU before going to work so the whole family still has health insurance, for example) is a lot harder. Are you that kind of guy?

Do me a favor -- share this thread with her. It might start an interesting discussion, and I'd love to hear how it turns out.

:hi:

[Arkansas Granny]

6. I've known a few men like this. The ones that really get to me are

the ones who will turn down a job because it doesn't pay them what they are worth. Just how much do they think laying around on their ass is worth?

[CountAllVotes]

8. they collect unemployment and get jobs that they know will lay them off

and on their merry little way they go. They aren't worth jack sh*t IMO. The won't do "women's work" so to speak. They'd rather live in a filthy pile o'sh*t. :grr:

I never understand why the hell women stay with men like this. Working 3 jobs and he does NOTHING! I'd toss him out on the street!

He needs to at the very least learn how to clean the house and cook!

What a lazy POS!!

[IdaBriggs]

12. I agree with you. My friend went from a very Good Job

($70K a year) to the lesser job of $40K a year. With that type of financial hit, you *knew* they were going to be in trouble, but he still didn't get off his butt and do anything. In fact, that was when he started really getting a hobby that required him to spend a ton of extra money/time. Then when the next hit came (the $40K job laid her off), they had NOTHING, and the spiral just got faster.

:banghead:

[NeedleCast]

7. Unfortunately your friend enabled this

I have a (now ex) friend who has done the same thing to her life. She was (is) bright, highly competent at what she does and in her mid-20s now holds a junior manager position in the IT field for a medium-sized contractor to the federal government. She's also very attractive.

Her boyfriend is a total loser. He's gone through half a dozen jobs in the past two years, none of which he's managed to hold more than three months, including a job my friend got him for the company she (we) work for. He got fired from that for violating the zero alcohol tolerance policy (which basically means they were looking for an excuse to fire him). He's verbally abusive and explodes in rage at the slightest provocation. She and I share many of the same mutual friends and none of them will hang out with her now because of her boyfriend (now fiance). He's threatened most of the men who she was friends with (although his a little tiny dude) so no one really wants to be around her anymore. His mission all along was to alienate her from her friends so that he would have more control and it's worked perfectly.

She has a history of "loser" boyfriends. Fiscally irresponsible, mentally or verbally abusive (I have no evidence of physical abuse), rely on her for financial support, et. al. She's a care-taker personality and thinks she can fix these guys, but they don't want to be fixed. They know they have a good thing going on.

It got to the point where I just couldn't be around her anymore because despite admitting all of her fiances problems, she still defends pretty much everything that happens. The IT industry here in DC is fairly close knit and her fiances' reputation is trash, yet it's never his fault he gets fired...it's always him getting screwed by "the man." Its never his fault that all her friends hate him, it's our fault for not getting to know him and picking on him.

The excuses never stop.

There's not much you can do. Either end the friendship or you're going to have to put up with her husband and the excuses she'll make for him.

Hopefully your friend will wake up one day and realize the mistake she made. Probably not though. People with this problem seem to get stuck in the cycle.

[IdaBriggs]

13. The friendship has lasted over 20 years for us, and its been

strained quite a few times because of this guy, and her willingness to go along with his behavior. He has always wanted someone else to take care of him, so his current health problems (cynical me) seem to fit right along with that pattern. I don't think she'll ever leave him, but I foresee a time when he leaves her (when she can no longer take care of him, and needs him to take care of her for a while -- she already had a taste of that "not happening" but just doesn't want to deal with it -- She LOVES him.)

:eyes:

[Arkansas Granny]

26. Thinking it over, what you have described sounds very much like

women who stay in abusive relationships. One reason they do this is low self esteem and believing that they don't deserve any better. It's sad on one level and on another it just makes you so mad that they won't do anything about the situation themselves and knowing that there is nothing you can do to change it either.

[IdaBriggs]

33. He is *extremely* verbally abusive.

As I said, I got to witness it a time or two. The friend whose basement they were living in was seriously shocked at what he ended up witnessing, and finally had to go down and intervene because he wasn't willing to allow it to happen in his home. She definitely has a self-esteem problem, and it does make me angry because she is/was an amazing person, who has allowed a bad relationship to pretty much ruin her life. She is not in a position to recover from even the financial hit on her retirement, and will probably end up living in near poverty for the remainder of her life.

There was no reason for it. Its sad. ARGH!!!

[AlCzervik]

27. no it hasn't, adults making adult decisions. No one can your mind, generally it's hitting

rock bottom or having an Epiphany about something that will do it, this is not Ida's fault.

[Evoman]

46. HA! Replace IT with Business and you've just described someone I know EXACTLY.

I'm not exaggerating. EXACTLY.

[izquierdista]

10. I can top that!

I had the pleasure of meeting the worst human being in the world in 2001. At that time he was out on his luck and looking for work, so I gave him some jobs on an old fixer-upper house I had bought and was living in. Over the course of the next year I found out the true extent of his alcoholism (3 quarts of beer a day, more if it was party time), how he had injured himself in a motorcycle accident at 18, and how he had never really had a steady job in his life. The motorcycle accident that had laid him up in the hospital for the better part of 2 years and the fact that his leg never really did heal severely limited his ability to hold a job with regular hours.

Like you, a kind of relationship developed where he was a commensal organism living off whatever I discarded. This property I bought was on a large lot, and he talked me into loaning him the $300 he needed to buy a trailer (not a mobile home, a 30 year old travel-trailer) which he plopped on the far end of the lot and I had myself a caretaker when I was away at work during the day. He never had any money in his pocket for he would make sure to spend the evening at the casino playing nickel keno until he had unburdened himself of his last nickel. The thing that would upset him most would be if he overslept in the morning and didn't catch me before I left for work to loan him $5 so he could get 2 quarts for breakfast and lunch.

I managed to get some benefit out of the arrangement, he did know electrical wiring and we rewired the house and he kept the yard cleaned up and the burglars away. He also was grateful for the opportunity to have a rent free place to crash and never lit off on any tirades with me like the ones his family kicked him out on the street over. I also never said anything about his drinking, since he was a fairly functional drunk and could still mud and sand drywall with a quart of Miller tucked under one arm.

He had been raised in a well-to-do Republican family and in his youth thought about a career in law enforcement. He had a law enforcement type outlook on life, that the world was full of scummy people that ought to be in jail (but, no, not him, he had his drinking under control and it was just an unfortunate coincidence that he happened to be sitting in that single-wide when it was raided for being a meth lab). Since he was white, he thought himself better than the black man who lived across the street or the Mexicans who owned the carniceria down at the corner. The odor of fascism that emanated from him was worse than the alcohol, which could be covered up with some breath mints.

I'm sure I would have more stories to tell about him, but he passed away in January of 2003 (liver failure from Hepatitis C and alcohol).

[bullwinkle428]

11. The poor daughter is unfortunately learning horrible behavior

from her mom, and it won't be the least bit surprising if she ends up in the same kind of situation with a boyfriend/husband who's an absolutely wretched excuse for a human being as well! Mad:

[CountAllVotes]

18. maybe the daughter wants to get the hell away from the house!

not that I blame the daughter. However, running off with some guy she met on the internet I find to be very frightening!!! :scared: I am for the daughter.

I hope she is just using this as a means to get away from this disgusting life she has been living.

:kick:

[IdaBriggs]

32. Nailed it. Its been a very sad situation.

Personally it scared the beejeezus out of me, but the mom seemed very blase. She tried to say "it would be just like going off to college" but my comeback was "when my kids go off to college, I will be inspecting the premises, know exactly where they will be living, make sure they have a way to get a hold of me instantaneously, and if they are going to be living with someone else's parents, I will have checked out their home to make sure they don't have a meth lab in the backyard instead of the promised via-the-internet pool!"

But I'm kind of hyper-responsible, and way paranoid about an 18 year old moving across the country for some internet romance. :)

[CountAllVotes]

34. he might not be 18 years old!

and that is the really scary part.

I can understand why the daughter left. I find the mother's blase attitude to be almost as disturbing as the father's behavior! Do you really want to continue a relationship with these people that are obviously feeding off of each other's behaviors?

So, the daughter wants to escape. She'd be better off trying to go away to a community college somewhere IMO or she could also be looking for a full-time job herself so she could get her own place to live. That is what I did!

:kick:

[sandnsea]

14. This isn't relevant to the mortgage problem at all

You said yourself your friend had had a $70,000 a year job and a normal loan. This isn't relevant to anything that's going on in the mortgage crisis and helping the people who had these bad loans shoved on them wouldn't have helped your friend either. Yeah, there are screwed up people on the planet. Some of them concocted these parasitical lending schemes and they should be dealt with too.

[IdaBriggs]

15. My point is that not everyone who loses their house does so

because of bad loans. Some people are just screwed up. There were two adults in that household, and without any other extenuating circumstances (health, small children, etc.) only ONE was doing anything to take care of business -- and then there were none.

They lost their house. They pretty much sabotogated themselves into the situation (going on vacation when everyone in the house is unemployed???), and created their own mess. I don't want to clean it up, and I don't think the government should bail them out.

For the record, they did end up declaring bankruptcy, but not until AFTER their home had been foreclosed on.

[sandnsea]

17. They're who the bankruptcy law was intended to target

Correct? They have nothing to do with mortgage fraud and it isn't helpful to have that issue mixed up with personal flaws.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Agree completely...this narrative is irrelevant at best

rank distortion of the problem at worst.

[IdaBriggs]

23. I disagree. I think the two issues are intricately tied together.

Mortgage fraud is bad, but mortgage fraud isn't the only reason "bad things happen" and pretending that the character flaw issue isn't rolled into it can be very frustrating for those who are getting to play witness to the "non fraud" problems.

Not all foreclosures are because of predatory lending, and not all "unforeseen circumstances" are unforeseeable for the average person with more than half a brain and a reasonable work ethic.

[sandnsea]

25. The current problem is mortgage fraud, Period.

Mixing other issues into it will only allow the predatory lenders to get away with it.

[AngryAmish]

16. maybe he is depressed

[IdaBriggs]

21. I am fairly confident that he is/has been. However, since they

have had insurance through most of this mess, one would assume the appropriate thing to do would be to seek professional help (instead of spending years playing EverQuest on the computer while the world falls down around your family). Medication and therapy were only a phone call away -- and believe me when I say that it has been suggested (for both of them).

[kineneb]

36. denial- not just a river in Egypt

I am in treatment for life-long bouts of disabling depression.

I have met people like you describe- the guy probably needed therapy and meds, as well as his wife. But many people don't believe in treating depression, so turn to drugs or other addictions (yes, computer games!) as a result. In the psych biz that is called "dual diagnosis".

The wife sounds like she just as much an "enabler" as many a spouse of an alcoholic.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Nice story

It has nothing to do with the housing crisis, which is a structural effect, but it's a nice story nonetheless.

[Beerboy]

22. Wow! You know George Bush!?

j/k, but you know one of his fucktard voters, assuming he had enough ambition to get off his ass and vote. If he did vote, he voted for Bush*.
My condolences to the kid, just like you said.

[yellowcanine]

24. We had a guy like that in our community. He actually was getting SSI.

Supposedly had a bad back but that didn't keep him from tinkering on an old car in his driveway, marching in the parade as a Lion's Club mascot, and taking courses at the community college. Meanwhile his wife worked full time and did the housework as well. They eventually sold their house and moved away so I don't know what became of them.

[CountAllVotes]

28. I had a neighbor like that too

same deal but not of SSI at the time. He was too busy filing lawsuits against former employers and trying to collect a lot via worker's compensation. He claimed he had a severe shoulder injury but he sure could pull an engine out of an old VW with little effort.

These are the sponges in our system that suck it for all they can get. When those truly in need of help apply for SSI, they usually get denied. Such persons are indeed very sick and cannot work. People like this just make it that much more difficult for those that really cannot do. Some end up living in their cars if they are lucky enough to have one. I find it quite disgusting!!

:puke:

[yellowcanine]

37. We had a lady that came into our office a few years back who could not even

make a phone call by herself. She was that unable to take care of herself. And she was having trouble getting SSI because the SS people claimed that she could wash dishes for a living. But most restaurants now use a dishwasher and she couldn't be trained to run one. It was a Catch-22 situation. She finally did get SSI. Pissed me off royally because at the same time I saw my neighbor collecting SSI and taking courses at the community college.

[raccoon]

29. Some people know how to navigate the system. I've known 3 people

like that. One, a former family friend who got himself on disability for a bad back, supposedly.

Another, a co-worker's husband who supposedly had a bad back, but did all sorts of fix-it jobs at home. Carpentry work. Another, a college-educated woman who had worked with the disabled, managed to get herself on disability because the grant that was paying her ran out and she couldn't find a decent paying job. A friend told me her only problem was drinking too much.

I know some people truly need to be on disability, but these 3 parasites didn't.

[DangerDave921]

31. Danger of safety nets

The beauty of Dems is they want to take care of those less fortunate and provide a safety net. But when we do that, there will always be unethical people who see an opportunity to take advantage of the generosity of others.

If you're a relatively healthy individual and still relying on others to take care of you, then shame on you. Charity is for the truly needy, not just people who don't want to work.

[yellowcanine]

38. At the same time I would rather risk a few people gaming the system rather than

making it so damn hard for the people who really need it. You just have to make the penalties really harsh for the cheaters when they finally get caught.

[DangerDave921]

41. Fine with me!

You got that straight.

[Javaman]

53. I'll take that risk because at the moment the unethical people are running the government. nt

[raccoon]

30. Did the guy have a substance abuse problem? Sure sounds like it. nt

[IdaBriggs]

35. No, just lazy. He likes to play computer games.

I believe EverQuest (or "EverCrack" as it was known for a while) was the extent of his addiction.

[Ikonoklast]

40. He decided to become a truck driver?

But the hours away from home were too much.....I almost punched my laptop.

What was he thinking? Unless he had a fairly stable work history and a few years of verifiable safe driving experience in the industry, getting a local job doing city P&D would be out of the question. His only option would be going OTR, and be gone weeks if not months at a time. Months.

I suppose having to work seventy hours a week had nothing to do with it. Nah.

Funny how many think it is an easy way to make a living until they try it. One out of three don't last their first year. One out of twelve don't make a month.


This guy is a user, and a loser. He will go through life blaming everyone and everthing except himself for his failures. This is the type of person that looks for a responsible person to be host to his parasitic behavior, so he can skate through life on with a minimum of responsibility, all the while dragging down those very people that try to help them.

I feel for his significant other, as she is co-dependant and doesn't even realize it. She needs a reality check. 'Love' has nothing to do with that relationship.

It alway seems to be one excuse after another, some mysterious 'ailment' that prevents them from working, at even the most non-physical of jobs. Even though they have no illness that would prevent them from doing so, while many, many people go out and earn a living every day having serious, debilitating illnesses, diseases, and syndromes.

Or they were 'disrespected' by their boss, as if being told what to do on the job is an affront to their exaggerated sense of self-worth.

Or the work itself was 'demeaning' to them, as if they would starve on principle rather than have their delicate sensibilities offended by the menial nature of their position.

People like this guy spend more time and effort trying to game the system for all its worth, taking resources away from those that truly deserve them. He is worse than a thief.

[yellowcanine]

42. I think a lot of people think that truck driving is a cushy job - anyone who has seen it up close

knows otherwise. In my case, my dad. I saw how hard he worked, even when the weather was nice and the roads were dry, not to mention the times he maneuvered an 18 wheeler through driving rain, snow, or worst of all, sleet.

[A HERETIC I AM]

45. As a former trucker with over 20 years experience behind the wheel,

i have to say i am glad that nimrod is not driving anything heavier than a car.

[IdaBriggs]

51. "I suppose having to work seventy hours a week had nothing to do with it. Nah."

You've MET him, haven't you?

:rofl:

Three weeks. He lasted THREE weeks. Said they lied to him about how much money he was going to make because he didn't get paid for waiting to get loaded/unloaded.

My FIL is a retired Teamster -- its hard work, and we tried to warn them when they came to tell us about the latest Get Rich Not Working Hard Scheme.

[Evoman]

47. Honestly? I would never be friends with someone like that.

Call me an asshole (haha..it's probably true), but friends that flakey get the fucking boot from me. These sorts of people have a way of bringing you down.

[SeattleGirl]

48. I agree, Ida. There are lazy assholes in this world, and this man

totally embodies that. Reading your post made me want to kick his sorry ass up one side of the road and down the other.

[blindpig]

49. There will always be slackers.

But is that an excuse that the majority be punished?

In a smaller, less complex society, most such will be shamed into socially acceptable behavior by peer pressure. The remainder might be ostracized.

Given the size and complexity of today's society it is too easy for the chronic slacker to avoid his due. Perhaps one answer is that we return to community, the atomization of our society not only makes such behavior easier to get away with, it makes grass roots political organization very difficult, at the least. Perhaps some other method might be devised in the interrum, but to punish the majority for the transgressions of the minority is collective punishment.

[bobbolink]

50. I understand your anger, Ida, but criticizing him only puts your friend in the position of defending

him.

He sounds like a real asshole, and I, too, wish your friend would have more self-respect, but attacking him won't make that happen.

Maybe you can talk with some folks at a battered women's shelter to get some pointers. It sounds to me like your friend is a candidate for battering, if she hasn't been already.

Good luck, and take care.

:hug:

[Javaman]

54. once upon a time...

there was this family that was sort of a friend of my parents.

The dad was a cop, the mom a manager at a mcd's and they had two daughters.

The dad, as a kid was a runner for the mob, one day doing parking ticket duty in one of the old 3 wheeled vehicles that the NYC cops used to use, he was broadsided by a truck going 50 MPH. It was a miracle he survived. Anyway, after healed and with his big fat settlement, he left his wife and kids. Nice huh? Never paid alimony or child support. never worked again, because he didn't have to, because of the giant ass claim. The text book example of a dead beat dad.

During the time he was married to his wife, he beat her in front of the kids, verbally abused her, and god knows what else. I also have the feeling he molested the two girls.

He vanishes from the scene for years. No word nothing. The mother is devastated, because on her meager mcd's salary, she now has to raise two girls.

As time wore on, the mom at first had to work 3 jobs and as a result, the two girls had no supervision and no roll models.

Every so often the dad would appear with his new girlfriend to bestow some sort of gift to the kids but nothing to the mom and then vanish.

Fast forward to today. The mother is basically a shell of a human being. It's as if every ounce of energy was expended years ago to do the best she could to raise the kids and it finally just wore her down and out.

The two daughters bounced from one marriage to another. The youngest daughter who was on a path right into prostitution, cleaned up her drug addicted life, moved to another part of the country and started a new life and has nothing to do with the family. So far it's working well. However, she had children by 3 different guys, all of which are absent fathers. Her current husband, apparently saw something in her and stood by her through, no doubt, a major period of adjustment for her.

The older daughter, pretty much the same story, only with her, instead of prostitution, she went with check fraud and credit card embezzlement. So far she hasn't been caught. She too has several ex-husbands with several kids and still mooches off of her mother who is now dying of cancer.

the older daughter was an interesting case, very smart but would apply her intelligence and hard work into working scams (most of which failed) rather than going to school. Her kids are following in the same path as she.

We live in a very dysfunctional society.

this info was as of 2 years ago, what became of them, who knows.