BREAKING NEWS !! Shooting in church in Colorado Springs

[kentuck]

There is a breaking story just coming across the ticker on the bottom of TV screen. A gunmen has shot several people at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs (Ted Haggard's Old Church)There are multiple victims.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. on TOP of the ministry shootings this morning?

NRA meets evangelicals. I wonder who wins. Maybe their prayers will protect them.

[BadgerLaw2010]

2. Maybe Same guy? News says gunman was still at large.

No one is carrying the second shooting in detail yet.

[JackBeck]

10. I bleive I just heard that the second shooting

is only an hour away from where the first took place.

[eleny]

19. It could take almost 2 hours to drive frm Arvada to the Springs

[niyad]

24. usually takes me about 50 minutes--but then, the roads are very snowy today.

[eleny]

27. It's just under 80 miles

You must have great luck and drive like a demon. Monument Pass alone on a bad day slows stuff down for sure.

But the distance is moot given how much time elapsed between shootings.

[niyad]

20. arvada is about an hour from here--the first shooting was around midnight, though.

and apparently the one at new life has just happened.

police scanner reports are saying multiple victims--as much as I despise what that group and other reichwing "christians" stand for, I don't wish this on anyone.

PACE to all.

[JackBeck]

25. Agreed.

I could never wish death upon anyone I disagree. Doing so puts you in the same league as any fundy who calls for the death of abortion doctors.

[KittyWampus]

31. you think the NRA will show up for a meeting with their grand wizard Heston for a meeting this time?

is Heston still alive? Cognizant?

[coffeenap]

3. Local link:

http://www.krdotv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7472137

[NashVegas]

4. Haggards? DAMN!

Can I be a nasty gossip and speculate this might be one of Ted's old buddies we didn't know about?

[More Than A Feeling]

5. Best wishes to the families facing the deaths of their loved ones,

and to the injured for a speedy recovery.

I hope they find who did it, and give them the maximum prison sentence that justice requires.

[Renew Deal]

6. Oh boy

I hope this story is wrong.

[aquart]

7. This is shaping up to be one bloody Christmas.

Things are so bad that the weakest links are starting to break.

[kestrel91316]

8. I dislike fundies and their belief system probably more than most, BUT

this is still wrong and a terrible thing. They are still Americans, and still entitled to worship freely and have as screwball a belief system as they want, as long as they don't impose it on anyone else.

I suspect a copycat emboldened by the Omaha mall killings. Monkey see, monkey do. Disgusting.

[Coyote_Bandit]

9. I'm surprised we haven't already had a church shooting

It hasn't breen too long since a Tulsa pastor was punched at the altar.

Never mind the sterotypes.....

[kentuck]

11. 2 Missionaries dead.. (Disregard this response)

I didn't realize there was another shooting earlier.

It is being reported by KKTV news.

[Deja Q]

15. I wonder what their position was... (on the issue of gun control)

[Paladin]

33. That's Just What This Situation Calls For:

Somebody making feeble jokes about a couple of slaughtered young people. Merry fucking Christmas.....

[ChairmanAgnostic]

70. feeble jokes work best when the topic is both disgusting and

preventable. BUT FOR THEIR STUPID POSITIONS ON GUNS.

One death is a tragedy, 4,000 US troops dead in Iraq is a statistic. 6 dead in 2 conservative chiristian buildings is absurd. and absurdity is the root of all humor.

[niyad]

29. that's from the arvada shooting at midnight, I believe.

[crim son]

12. Does anybody else start to feel like we're living in an apocalypse movie?

The shrub is the antichrist and all the stuff going down is the result of his evil reign. No, I'm not a Christian, but watching american values and morals disintegrate over the past few years has given me pause - he and his administration are directly responsible. By their fruits shall ye know them - or something like that.

[spirit of wine]

17. Cause-Effect Playing Itself Out

Stupid leaders begets stupid results

[originalpckelly]

13. Wow! Is Ted all hopped up on meth or something?

[coffeenap]

14. MODS PLEASE NOTICE--THIS IS A NEW SHOOTING! nt

[kestrel91316]

16. Does this maybe have something to do with

the Arvada, CO shooting at the Missionary training place earlier this AM.

If it's the same person, he definitely would have had time to get from the Denver area down to CoSpgs to do this. I smell a connection.......

[bluestateguy]

18. We all need to wait for the facts to come out before making snap political judgements

nt

[originalpckelly]

22. But I'll tell you, I'm worried that this is someone on our side.

Just like I was worried about the Hillary hostage taker as being Republican, I'm worried that maybe someone got the idea of going after a right-wing organization with violence. We're living in very troubled times, and beneath everything there is an undercurrent of hate.

[Judi Lynn]

35. You are undoubtedly right if by "our side" you are referring to the "side" which spawns

bombings and murders of people working at family planning clinics, the same "side" which in earlier times slaughtered civil rights workers and wages constant war 24/7 on "lib'ruls' by any means possible.

Makes a lot more sense to recognize that only one from their own environment would have been likely to move so easily among these right-wingers to the point he had no trouble shooting the unsuspecting victims. A stranger in their midst would have drawn a lot of attention well before he could have killed anyone.

[originalpckelly]

39. Yeah, as we all know, only one side has violent nuts.

Although, I think it's fair to say their side has more than their fair share, but we've had the Weather Underground and other organizations.

[Judi Lynn]

61. Time seems to have come to a complete standstill for you. Weather Underground. Hmmmm.

Most of us imagined it had ended with the close of the VietNam war. Little did we know.

What's FORTY YEARS in the great scheme of things, anyway?

[originalpckelly]

69. Well, OK then.

:eyes:

[niyad]

42. new life has somewhere between 7 and 10,000 members.

the building seats thousands.

[Renew Deal]

68. Political judgements?

About what? How is this possibly political?

[Harper_is_Bush]

21. A death penalty society reaps what it sows. n/t

[niyad]

23. latest from DP on the new life shootings

Print Email ShareAt least 4 shot at Colorado Springs church
The Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 12/09/2007 01:54:43 PM MST


COLORADO SPRINGS—At least four people were shot outside New Life Church on Sunday, but it was not immediately clear if any of them died, El Paso County Sheriff's Lt. Lari Sevene said.
It was not immediately known if the shootings were connected with shootings earlier Sunday at a missionary training center in the Denver suburb of Arvada some 65 miles to the north. Two people died in the Arvada incident.

Lance Coles, a pastor at New Life Church, told The Associated Press he received a report that a man was shooting at people in the church parking lot and that the gunman may have entered the church.

New Life was founded by the Rev. Ted Haggard, who was fired last year after a former male prostitute alleged he had a three year cash-for-sex relationship.

Haggard, then the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, admitted to undisclosed "sexual immorality."

The church is one of Colorado's largest with about 10,000 members.




http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_7677893

[malaise]

28. CNN is giving updates n/t

[applegrove]

26. Not again.

[salin]

30. Prayers to all of the victims and their loved ones, as well as to the

faith communities in which the attacks occured.

A number of years ago a follower of Matt Hale (white supremicist) went on a shooting rampage that included shooting a Korean exchange student (who had only been here for less than a month) in the front walkway of a local church. It shook-up the entire community. Nothing like such a violent loss taking place at a place that is perceived to be a safe place. I am sure that the entire communities will continue to feel violated and vulnerable long after the gunman/men are caught.

[malaise]

32. CNN says multiple victims and that one report

says the second shooting is connected to the first.

I don't pray but I hope people escape this madness. This is ongoing - people are hiding in the church.

[salin]

36. an uplink report says there are possibly two gunmen at the second

shooting -has that been confirmed or denied?

If so - and if this is connected to the first shooting - this is much more sinister than a lone-wacko - not that it changes the on-the ground tragedy unfolding.

I pray for the folks hiding in the church. I can not imagine their fear and grief.

[originalpckelly]

34. Anyone else think there's been a lot of weird shit going on lately?

I mean, weirder than usual. What's going on?

[rodeodance]

2 dead per fox

[rodeodance]

40. 2 girls hiding under alter--cell phones--guess they are not hiding any more

[niyad]

41. isn't that from the arvada shooting? no confirmed dead at new life according to local sources

[Hoof Hearted]

63. Very, very strange. It's like a more violent version of the Republican recession of the 80's

and early 90's. People are angry and desperate.

[Breeze54]

37. I hope it wasn't by an outsider.

This is getting crazy!!

*PSST* Hey, you there!! America?? Pay attention for a second!!

Stop trying to solve your fucking problems and sorrows with gunfire!!! :grr:

[malaise]

38. Looks like the first one was someone

seeking shelter last night.

[stranger81]

43. link? [n/t]

[niyad]

47. from the denver post

Two killed in shooting at Arvada missionary dorm
By Tom McGhee
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 12/09/2007 02:26:06 PM MST


Arvada police confer at the shooting site. (Post | John Prieto)ARVADA — — Two youth missionary staff workers were killed and two others were injured early today when a man seeking shelter opened fire at a missionary dorm in Arvada.

Police and witnesses said two staffers, a man and a woman in their mid-20s, were killed just after 12:30 a.m. when the man approached the door seeking a place to stay.

The female staffer, identified by police as Tiffany Johnson, 26, of Minnesota, apparently told the man that the youth facility had no place for him. She was about to tell him that she could seek alternatives when he produced a gun.

"He opened up," said Cheryl
. . . .

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7677509

[Breeze54]

49. Another homeless, displaced, pissed off person goes nuts!

Expect more of this people!!!! :(

With all the cuts in social services and help for the homeless...expect more.

[malaise]

50. There was a time when homeless people were welcome in missionaries

Sad all round.

[Breeze54]

53. Yeah but that was before Reagan and head count limits!

:grr:

Actually, I never even heard the word... "homeless" until Reagan took office. :grr:

And then I/we was one. :nuke:

[malaise]

57. Really sad

but listening to the man with the accent has my head exploding. I wonder if he picks up his own contradictions.

[Breeze54]

60. All he picks up is toe jam and brush!

:P

I hate that man's guts soooo much!!

Actually, I hate ALL rethugs... Vehemently!! :grr:

[Ghost in the Machine]

65. We can delve into this even deeper than "Another homeless, displaced, pissed off person goes nuts!"

It could be a few different scenarios at play here. If the guy was truly homeless or displaced, we can pretty much bet that his gun was stolen. Maybe not by *him* personally, but he more than likely purchased it "hot". Otherwise, if he had the money to buy a gun, he had the money to get shelter for a few nights, if not at a weekly or "extended stay" motel.

This guy may have been desperate enough to conclude that life in prison was better than the life he was living. At least he knows he's get fed every day and have a roof over his head. Believe it or not, some people actually feel this way. They didn't have room for him at this particular shelter, and he may have been turned away from others before this one, and he finally snapped. He kills someone, then takes off to have his last day or so of freedom before he's found. He could possibly trade his gun now for drugs, alcohol, or a warm place to stay for the night.

This scenario isn't too far fetched, as desperate people will do desperate things. Some homeless people will get themselves locked up for the night, a week or 30 days sometimes *just* to get out of the cold. I know this for a fact as I have seen it first hand. We can expect to see more of it in the future, as long as we keep ignoring poverty and the homeless. It's sad that it has to cost another innocent life, too... but it will.

Breaking the cycle of poverty and homelessness is one of the first steps that needs to be taken in moving this country back in the right direction. Where only hopelessness lives, violence will prevail.

[Cheap_Trick]

44. THIS is what happens

when the conservatives drive god out of the church.

[MindPilot]

45. God must've taken the day off.

I can't wait for all the blamestorming about how the secularists, gays and feminists made god "lift his veil of protection", lack of prayer in schools, god's been removed from the public square, etc etc.

[malaise]

46. Their only god is money n/t

[K Gardner]

48. What is the damned deal with all the shootings lately? Multiple gunmen? An

organized event or random.. I'm confused..

[spanone]

51. irony alert - death at the New Life Church

[kentuck]

52. They were all shot in the parking lot...

according to the latest report from a police officer at the scene. There were 3-5 people shot and they have one of the gunmen in custody.

[AngryAmish]

54. Way to go, Bush!

[KG]

55. and the slaughter continues

the latest sacrifices on the alter of 2A.

[MindPilot]

56. And so it begins -- a new era of persecution of Christians

At least in their own tiny little minds.

One of the comments from the Denver post article...

"Martyrdom
My wife and I immediately stopped and prayed for all in this situation. It remains to be determined whether this attack had anti-faith motives. Yet, these two servants of God were prepared to lay down their lives for their victorious King Jesus. Who would have thought it would have been here? While this may have no demonstrable connection with the secular attacks against anything Christian, especially Christmas, it does give one pause. Take away the only source of true grace, forgiveness, and hope, and try to substitute protecting every conceivable niche of society from the hopeless gone wrong, and we might be reaping this result. Christmas Carols in the mall and a nativity scene outside would not have prevented this, but a reversal of our country's faith cleansings might have rescued many a desperate soul before they went over the edge.

abiggerkingdom

:puke:

[Perry Logan]

58. If he'd shot up some liberals, the Right would be braying like asses.

[Cerridwen]

59. Good thing we're better than they are, huh? n/t

[pdxmom]

62. Okay, I broke down and turned it to Faux, who are reporting that they

have now found an explosive device at the Colorado Springs location.

[doc03]

64. Why didn't God protect the people

inside his house? The people that died was God's will but if there were any survivors it was a miracle from God.

[MindPilot]

67. The shootings will be blamed on everything from no praying in school

to the 9th Circuit Court, but god will get the credit for the people who weren't hit or didn't die. (The ones who didn't die giving thanks to god really piss me off. It wasn't god who saved your life, it was the EMTs, the ER trauma team and Joe Six-Packs like me who donate blood.)

Every time something like this happens, I think Xians would get a clue, but they go on believeing...

[MetaTrope]

66. Clearly the gunman had played the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" videogame

and wanted to show what a big fan he was.

[kentuck]

71. The latest reports are that 5 are dead.

I think it is also reported on MSNBC?