People who lie about military service or military awards are scum

[Squatch]

Luckily, there are military and civil laws that deal with these assholes.

Today, I prepared a number of files of captains who will have their credentials go before a board for promotion to major. I saw one file in which the officer's uniform showed that he had earned the Silver Star. Now, that is a medal that carries quite a bit of prestige and honor, yet when I called my connections at HRC to verify that a captain by his name had earned it, he could find no such orders. When I checked the records for Silver Stars awarded, I could find nobody by his name being awarded that medal in either OIF or OEF.

Thinking that this was an oversight on the officer's part, I called him and told him to verify that his orders had posted to his OMPF (Official Military Personnel File). As I waited, he said that they had not and he was submitting them right away through his S-1. Not wanting to hold his packet up, I said that I could post them right then and there since I can profile his orders and have them posted to his OMPF within minutes.

Hemming and hawing, he tried to explain why he couldn't send them in: no fax machine, not at a computer, etc, etc. Finally, I asked him if he had, in fact, earned it and he hung up the phone.

I referred his packet to his command who said that they have had problems with this officer fabricating parts of his service in the past. They said that it's all they can do to keep from breaking his kneecaps, but they were going to open a 15-6 investigation on him and most likely bring criminal charges against him.

The only worse thing that faking your record is manipulating the system to pad it. For example, I knew of a senior NCO who utilized his position as a human resources NCO to recommend himself and approve his own awards (using an officer's rubber stamp signature). Once he was found out, he was quickly drummed out.

It always sucks to hear about these abject cowards because their actions detract from the actions of soldiers enduring monumental hardships to earn their awards the old fashioned way. Thankfully, once they're found out, the remainder of their military careers is short, sometimes painful, and can haunt them with the stigma of a dishonorable discharge or a felony conviction hanging over their heads.

[Virginia Dare]

1. Starting with the scumbag-in-chief...n/t

[Squatch]

2. It's despicable at any level.

[Blue-Jay]

3. Happens on "teh internets" all the time.

And yes, people that do it are scumbags. They're usually scumbags about other stuff as well.

[AlCzervik]

4. that does suck and why would someone still in the military lie about that, don't they think they'll

eventually be found out?

[Squatch]

6. What got me was that the dude chose a Silver Star.

There aren't that many of those out there and it's easy to raise the bullshit flag.

[AlCzervik]

11. can i ask you a sort of unrelated question?

My husbands Uncle was a veteran of WW2 and my sil would like to get his service records, is that possible?

[Squatch]

14. Long answer short...maybe.

Depends on a number of factors:

His branch of service
Where he served
When he served
His rank

I've looked for my Grandfather's records (he was a radio operator on Iwo Jima), but I could find absolutely nothing. Have you tried the National Archives?

[AlCzervik]

15. all i have is this-

S SGT US ARMY AIR FORCES
WORLD WAR II

i have that site up in another window right now, i also checked the ww2 vets memorial site, someone put in my Grandfather and his brothers info which was way cool but as for my Husbands uncle, i am having no luck at all.

[Squatch]

17. Try narrowing it down to

Wing, Squadron, etc. A lot of the old historical units have veterans' associations that maintain active records. For example, the 173rd Airborne Brigade Association has maintained service records since the unit was stood up back in the day.

[AlCzervik]

20. ok thanks, i'm determined to get this info for her.

[Squatch]

21. Good luck and happy hunting!

Sometimes when digging through military archives you uncover side stories that are just incredible, heart-warming, etc.

[alfredo]

29. There was a fire or a flood that destroyed some records a few

years back.

[bullwinkle428]

5. Isn't there some insane number representing the ratio

of those claiming to have been in the Navy Seals compared with those who actually served there?

Something like 50:1 or maybe even 100:1?

[Squatch]

9. Oh the old "I was a PBR operator with the 3rd Seals

attached to the Green Berets of 3/3 Marines I earned the Navy Cross"

:rofl:

[bullwinkle428]

16. The classic "big lie" theory -

they figure if they embellish it enough, who would possibly even consider the effort to even begin to try verifying it!

[Squatch]

18. But when you do that to people who thrive on attention to detail

it's only a matter of time, you know?

Sort of like gun nuts who go apeshit when they see a movie gun that had the wrong scope on it or something.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

42. Yea, but silencers on standard revolvers and scopes on Desert Eagles

and M9's still piss me off :sheepish grin:

[Morrisons Ghost]

46. Aren't they

usually prolific songwriters and have kids who play professional baseball as well?:hi:

[sendero]

7. People who lie about anything consequential..

.... are scum IMHO. :)

[NeedleCast]

8. Can I ask you a question about this

Just out of curiosity...I'm ex-Army (lower enlisted most of my career)? What percentage of officers are doing things like this?

[Squatch]

10. This is the first one I've personally encountered in 11 years of service

So, the percentage is probably fairly low.

[NeedleCast]

12. Thanks

That's good to know.

[fenriswolf]

13. this happens all the time at recruiting stations

after i finished basic i had a chance to go home and spend 2 weeks helping out the local recruiting station. one day while i was doing some paper work one of the recruiters walked into the station commanders office saying he was heading to a house cause a kid wanted to know about going airbourne (jumping out of planes) the commander grabbed some jump wings (actually they were master jump wings for someone who had jumped alot) talk about faking the funk. After talking with someone of the other people at my unit after recruiting they confirmed that this happened at their recruiting station too. This happens every where at alot of recruiting stations. Some don't even care (found more then a couple with ribbons stating they served in germany or korea and didn't even have an overseas ribbon which go hand in hand with each other. )

[TahitiNut]

19. It's an absolutely appalling corruption ... and far too widespread.

It's my understanding that a national survey was performed some years ago - either by the census bureau (current population survey) or a national polling firm. I've been unable to find a reputable first-hand or second-hand reference, however. It's my understanding that they found something like six or seven times as many people claiming to be Viet Nam Veterans as actually served (2.7 million of us) in Viet Nam. That just absolutely appalls me. It seems to me that a great deal of damage has been done by such "faux vets" - damaging vets and damaging much of how people regard veterans. It's just inexcusable.

[Squatch]

23. Yes, sir, it is.

[tabasco]

22. That is one stupd mf'ing Captain.

The only thing that would make the story better would be if he was a USMA grad.

Letter of reprimand in order for this asswipe. Oh, and getting passed over.

[Squatch]

24. They'll probably go for an Article 83 and court martial him

§ 883. Art. 83. Fraudulent enlistment, appointment, or separation

Any person who— (1) procures his own enlistment or appointment in the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his qualifications for that enlistment or appointment and receives pay or allowances thereunder; or (2) procures his own separation from the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his eligibility for that separation;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

[tabasco]

26. I kind of doubt that.

But it's been awhile since I was in.

[jmowreader]

33. Article 83 is no good here. There are better ones.

Article 83 is for guys like the one my security interviewer at Fort Dix told me about. This moran joined the Military Intelligence Corps without telling his recruiter that he was wanted for murder.

I like, in this case:

Article 92: Failure to Obey Order or Regulation
Article 107: False Statements
Article 133: Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and a Gentleman

But yeah, he's getting court-martialed and sent to Leavenworth. There will be no quickie chapter action against this man.

[Squatch]

34. I sure as hell hope they give him more than an Article-15

He needs at least a GO-letter of reprimand and an other-than-honorable discharge.

[jmowreader]

25. Here's a strange beast for your consideration

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies177.htm

This is the strange and sordid tale of Alfonzo Camoesas, the oddest wannabe you ever will meet.

What he claims:
Retired Command Sergeant Major
Korean War service: 7th Infantry Division, 32nd Infantry Regiment, 2nd Airborne Ranger Company
Claims to have made a combat jump on Seoul's Kimpo Airport while with the 2nd Airborne Ranger Company
Claims combat action in the Chosin Reservoir
Vietnam service: 5th Special Forces Group
Awards: Navy Cross, Distinguished Service Cross, two Silver Stars, third award of the Combat Infantry Badge, eight Purple Hearts, five Bronze Stars with V device, Soldiers Medal, Army Commendation Medal with V device, Croix de Guerre, South Vietnam Medal of Honor

What he actually did:
Retired Sergeant First Class
Korean War service: 32nd Infantry Regiment
2nd Airborne Ranger Company never made a combat jump on Kimpo
2nd Airborne Ranger Company was a segregated, all-African American unit, and Camoesas isn't black
Camoesas was a medical aidman. He could NOT have received the Combat Infantry Badge, but he's eligible for two awards of the Combat Medical Badge, which is a very prestigious award in its own right. He couldn't have received three awards of this anyway; you get one per war, and he enlisted in the military in 1949--after World War II, but in plenty of time for Korea.
Camoesas was recommended for the Navy Cross for saving the life of a Marine Corps officer but apparently never received the award
He has bona fide service in the Chosin Reservoir. He was wounded there and received the Silver Star for gallantry.
The South Vietnamese government never awarded a Medal of Honor
The Croix de Guerre was awarded for service during World Wars I and II, and he was in neither

He's the strangest wannabe I ever heard of. Most of 'em are either guys who were never in the service whatsoever, or who spent the whole war at Fort Dix. This guy was in the shit up to his eyebrows, but he claims even more? Interesting.

[Squatch]

28. The latest one I heard of was Jesse Macbeth

Jesse Macbeth

I believe he's currently in jail in Tacoma, Washington and the 2/75 Rangers at Fort Lewis are licking their chops for his release.

He went on MSM and claimed that he and his Rangers committed a large number of war crimes. Iraq Veterans Against the War sure fucked up royally when they greenlighted this liar to represent them at protests across the country.

[Raejeanowl]

38. You Have To Wonder What Goes Through Their Minds

That is, people who undertake these elaborate false identities and facades. It can't bring them or their intimates happiness of any description when the deck of cards collapses, as it inevitably does, and people wise up, as they inevitably do. They surely don't believe they'll fool everyone forever or that they'll be able to dig themselves out of their own pile of sh*t with more lies and slight of hand tricks.

So, is it that such a man just wants to become famous as a "Great Impostor?" Is this the only dubious goal they can realistically achieve?

[Parche]

27. Hey

I would like to get a 'Medal Of Honor' For him.....:hi:

He had a few Navy Cross's that 1 should have been the Medal Of Honor........

[lepus]

43. A few of the sub commanders declined medals of honor

in favor of getting awards for their crew.

Wasnt the Wahoo the one that found three warships parked like sitting targets in a lagoon between 3 atolls and took advantage of the situation? Ran like hell on the surface for around 8 hours to get to a good dive position after?

[gratuitous]

30. Not surprising

Anything that's highly valued and given the added cachet of a mythical endorsement is bound to be lusted after by those who haven't earned it. Look right now at the privileged white people of the majority religion rushing to claim their status as "victim" because of a non-existent war on Christmas.

Why do people do such things? Well, scumbaggery is a pretty good place to start. But part of it is also the way our society treats people of a certain status. We all want to rush and help the victim. We all want to salute thrilling tales of derring-do. Maybe we need a little more balance.

[madrchsod]

31. there is a website that deals with these guys

and they do a good job in smoking these guys out. that war in nam and iraq was/is bad enough for those who were thereand they certainly do`t need liers claiming they were

[Squatch]

32. Gotta link?

[madrchsod]

35. sorry i forgot ---try google-- i think that`s where i found it

[Irreverend IX]

36. Check out POWNetwork.org...

I never realized how prevalent false claims of military service were until I saw this site.

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies.htm

Some of the accounts on this site make for amusing reading. There used to be a site that exposed fake Navy SEALs, too, but it went under because, according to the authors, there were too many requests and too many people who didn't want to believe that their friend or family member was lying about having been a SEAL. This is all that's left of that page:

http://cyberseals.org/authentiseal/index.htm

It's too bad, because some of the SEAL impostors were really funny. There were a number of small-time Republican politicians caught lying about SEAL service, and another who claimed that he could chain-smoke without any ill effects because the SEALs taught him to "breathe correctly."

[Raejeanowl]

37. Phony SEAL Service Is VERY Popular

And personally, I don't think it's all that amusing when people fake you out about these things. Because then you can't rely on anything they say.

However, the VeriSeals are still around and just as overtaxed as the previous group. Check out this link for all the telltale signs of fakery, and if quacks like a duck...(etc.):

http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/polygraph.html

[UTUSN]

39. Brian DENNEHY

The link below is from something about "Stolen Valor," a mixed bag in that it calls PTSD "a myth". I don't know how DENNEHY explained himself or how he has the shamelessness to show his face anywhere.

There was an old dude locally who claimed to be a Korean War vet. He was a member of the VFW, which, by definition, consists of members who have been in a war zone overseas. He ran for Commander of his post. Somehow he had gotten by the vetting in becoming a member to begin with, but when he ran for Commander, he was caught not having served overseas. By the time I met him, he was a crushed shell, not talking, staring into space, and all the locals would tell the story to anybody around.

There was another one locally who would wear the whole uniform and regalia of the highest ranking enlisted pay grade, with all sorts of ribbons. He would deliver eulogies at veterans' funerals and speeches on holidays. He went years without being found out. Incredible.

The "Stolen Valor" link says one of the motivations is the financial benefits from the VA. That's hard to believe, because the benefits process is rigidly vetted. As for the "glory" part, where do they find the guts to play that game?

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.epinions.com/content_23248932484

Stolen Valor is the story of hundreds of thousands of Vietnam veterans who served their country honorably only to see their efforts and sacrifice denigrated and tarnished.� Burkett addresses all of the myths about the Vietnam War and veterans. He exposes some of the thieves who have falsely claimed to be Vietnam vets and heroes. For example, actor/movie star Brian Dennehy claims to be a Vietnam War-wounded Marine vet. The closest Dennehy came to Vietnam was Okinawa, 1500 miles away. ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[Raejeanowl]

40. Here's Another Relatively Recent Story

To those who met him, Richard David McClanahan was quite the hero, an attractive man with an impressive military career. Three Purple Hearts. Three Silver Stars. Two tours in Iraq. One tour in Afghanistan. He was a POW being considered for the Medal of Honor.

<<<snip>>>

The only problem was none of it was true.

<<<snip>>>

Mr. McClanahan continued the lies, which eventually caught up with him. In May, he was indicted in U.S. District Court on charges of making false statements on a bank form and lying about receiving military medals. On Thursday, he pleaded guilty in federal court in Amarillo to one count of making false statements and one count of making false claims about the receipt of military medals.

Mr. McClanahan, 29, who now lives in Fort Worth, according to federal officials, faces a maximum statutory sentence of 31 years in prison and a $1.1 million fine. A sentencing date has not been set.

<<<snip>>>

The Stolen Valor Act, which President Bush signed into law in December, makes it a felony to impersonate military heroes by falsely claiming to have been awarded the nation's top military decorations, such as the Medal of Honor. The law not only prohibits people from wearing unearned medals but also bans them from claiming to have earned such awards verbally or in writing.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/081107dnmetmilitaryscam.30310c2.html

[Occam Bandage]

41. Indeed. It's the flipside of the adulation of the military:

for every good man serving honorably, there are a hundred tit-brains who manufacture a heroic past in hopes of usurping some glory. I'd bet the ratio of pretend SEALs to actual SEALs is 100:1 or worse.

And I'd bet there are twice as many people falsely claiming that they've won any given award than there are people who have actually won it. Which always strikes me as odd, especially when such awards are matters of public record.

[Raejeanowl]

45. I'm Still Hunting Down Those Statistics

But my understanding is that a lot of the recording understandably predates the computer age, it's archived manually in various forms and locations, and no single repository of a database has an all-inclusive index, which just invites the abuse.

So, if you can't verify someone's record via official means, you might ask the vet whose service meritorious you're interested in. Of course, if they claim to have thrown it all away (maybe including their DD214?) or changed their name for some unrelated reason, I think you can draw your own conclusions.

[B Calm]

44. I love outing the fake republican veterans on message boards

[mainegreen]

47. Good job!

Faking a Silver Star?
Well, I guess if you're going to fake....