I know that Diebold, EE&S, Sequioa and all of the other Cockroach DREs

[tavalon]

have fixed many an election for the Repubs but given what we've been given a glimpse of recently, that the Democrats aren't just weak, they're co-conspirators, has anyone looked into how many of the primaries for the Democrats are being decided by those vile machines. I mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Maybe, just maybe, people like Pelosi and Reid and many other incumbent Democrats who are willing to play along, may have access to fixed elections, just like Bush.

[helderheid]

1. they're in my state, but I won't count since I'm in Utah. Thankfully the Iowa Caucuses uses people.

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. Unfortunately, what you think is not supported by best evidence

DREs suck, period. Down the in the subways, they're wiped constantly or quickly become useless. But no one's found anything so far to suggest that anything deliberately has been done to maliciously affect a race.

[tavalon]

3. How often have those issues with DREs favored the Republican candidate

versus the Democratic candidate? Are there any numbers on that?

Why did the exit polls start becoming "unreliable" after DREs came along? Don't you think that's a weird coincidence?

Plausible deniability isn't quite good enough for me.

[Fredda Weinberg]

4. There are professors gathering data. I've watched David Dill

who was quietly helpful to me while Bev Harris while doing her PR thing and fleecing DUers. His site is http://www.verifiedvoting.org and I'm proud to say I helped while they were first archiving articles.

C-Span recently re-aired a panel where he and several other computer scientists faced activists. Your question was asked and answered: yes, there are incidents where the D was favored over R.

Exit polls are a recent phenomenon, but I don't recall that they were ever reliable ... they're not meant to be representative. They are used to determine why people voted as they did; if the methodology was meant to verify actual poll results, they'd be set up differently.

It's not a question of what you believe ... unfortunately, self-interested individuals have already damaged public perceptions ... but what professionals in my field can verify and address. It's a technical issue, not political at all.

[tavalon]

7. Unfortunately, during that time, I was supporting Bev Harris.

Sucks. Totally.

[Fredda Weinberg]

8. I left as many warnings as I could. Forgive me for not staying n/t

[nashville_brook]

5. the only thing that would constitute "evidence" of "malicious" DRE use would be

for the perps to be caught red-handed. that's the problem in a nutshell -->> we have no way of knowing.

in ohio they closed down a precinct, declared a terrorist threat and pushed all the observers out the door while they tabulated the DREs. we can't PROVE anything was crooked because the Rethugs held all the power and shut the door behind us. we can't make any judgment about the INTEGRITY of the DREs because the software is proprietary... the process is opaque.

so, you are correct, but unfortunately, that correctness is beside the point. the vote needs transparency for democracy to flourish. a PROPRIETARY BLACK BOX vote is the antithesis of democracy.

[tavalon]

6. But let's make the assumption, just for this scenario

that the DREs do flip and manipulate votes. The part I'm asking people to think about is whether those machines also might flip votes for compliant Democratic incumbents.

[Fredda Weinberg]

10. Your hypothetical rests upon a baseless assumption. As for vote tampering

may I state for the record that it happens here all the time. NYC is a Democratic machine and even conservatives register strategically.

We have lever machines and every cycle the broken ones are placed in minority districts. The affidavit ballots aren't counted, even when it matters ... that's how we got Bloomberg and don't care. When I went to vote for Ferrer (against Mark Green) I was asked if I wanted instruction on how to write-in for Rudy. You think our local liberal press cared? Nope ... I tried.

[nashville_brook]

11. to the hegemon goes the spoils -- so, yeah dems might take advantage

to date tho, the overwhelming statistical flipping seems to have benefited repugs.

[Fredda Weinberg]

9. Malicious DRE manipulation would leave code and coders

Sorry, but it strains credulity. Yes, code can delete itself but I would know where to look to find evidence of such tampering and heard personally from others well qualified to juddge. The evidence has been examined by experts and there's nothing to point to tampering of any kind, save the demonstrations of happy hackers with their own brand name to sell.

Please offer evidence or at least a recognized authority. I've seen university professors challenged by amateurs in public and it's not pretty.

I've seen the code myself, so despite its proprietary nature we have a prettty good idea ourselves what's going on. For those incapable or unwilling to look at the public record, including Diebold code that was illegally obtained ... keep quiet because any claim you make will be baseless.