I just told an anti-Obama push poller to stuff it...

[CoffeeCat]

Just got off the phone with a pollster who asked me if I
was a registered Democrat, and to rate the likelihood that
I would caucus next week.

I said that I was a registered Dem and that I was "almost
certain" that I would caucus.

I was then asked which candidate I supported. I said that
I was undecided, but leaning toward Obama.

The pollster said, "Ok. I'm going to read you a statement about
one of the candidates, and you tell me how likely this information
will impact who you decide to caucus for."

"Ok," I said.

The pollster said that, "According to CBS News, Barack Obama's health
care plan will leave 15 million Americans uninsured. Does this bother
you and will it impact..."

That's when I cut her off, "Excuse me, but this is a push poll and the
only thing that push polls do for me is turn me off on candidates who
have no agenda and can only attack the other candidates. What you just
read to me is a Hillary Clinton talking point. I heard the same talking
point in a Hillary-backed radio ad in the car today. Exact same talking
point. Verbatim. It sickens me".

The pollster then insisted that this wasn't a push poll. I replied, "Do
you know what a push poll is? A push poll is when a candidate dumps
negative information about a candidate, within the context of a poll.
Again, this is a push poll. I'm not buying this."

The pollster said, "Let me get my supervisor."

Supervisor gets on the phone, "How can I be of assistance?"

I said, "I don't need any assistance. I was just telling your pollster
that she was engaging in a push poll and she said this wasn't a push poll,
and I told her not to insult my intelligent because I know when I'm being
push polled.

"Ohhhh," said the supervisor. "So, you just had a disagreement."

I said, "There is no disagreement. There is only a push poll going on.
It's no big deal. If that's what your candidate wants to do, that's fine,
but please--don't insult me by calling my home, asking me these inane
questions and then telling me that it's not a push poll."

The "supervisor" then wished me a good evening and hung up.

I have to say, this call dovetails nicely with the information that
was discussed on a local Des Moines radio talk show. The Republican
host and two Democratic leaders in Iowa were discussing politics in
Iowa. One of them said that they know people "high up in the Clinton
camp", and that these people are "worried" because Hillary's numbers
are tanking. Then, there was some discussion about her long descent
and how she's been tanking for a while.

Desperate people do desperate things, I guess.

[DemKR]

1. I guess you can't handle the facts. Is 15,000,000 uninsured appealing to you? n/t

[K Gardner]

4. You guys never stop, do you? When are you going to realize it isn't working? n/t

[CoffeeCat]

5. I really don't give a darn...

I'd rather have 50 million Americans uninsured under Obama, then the entire
nation ruled by a neocon in a pantsuit parading as a Democrat.

[Nedsdag]

36. Nice diss!

n/t

[JeanGrey]

42. But truthful.

[Bright Eyes]

7. Mind providing a link that proves 15 million would remain uninsured?

And by the way, Clinton's health care proposal isn't exactly all sunshine either.

[Kahuna]

13. Right. She's going to mandate that people with no money and no job

HAVE health insurance before they can GET a job. Bullshit on that one.

[Bright Eyes]

28. And it appears none of the Clinton supporters have a link

backing up their assertion.

And we wonder why this country is so messed up, when we take our leaders words as absolute truth without fact checking.

[earthlover]

32. That would cost her the election....so it won't happen

[creeksneakers2]

43. She isn't going to do that n/t

[IowaGuy]

40. Don't have a link but I believe her source is....

a fellow by the name of Paul Krugman, an economist and liberal op-ed\think tank type writer. For some reason he has really got a burr under his saddle about this 15 million number and has gone kind of weirdly berserk over it, being completely dismissive of anybody that challenges the assumptions he made to come up with that number.

However Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor under the Clinton administration (a guy whose intellect and pragmatism has been widely applauded by both those on the left and right -including former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan)...has a completely different take on it and believes it would cover more than Hillary's.

Here is a snip of talking points from Obama's campaign to Precinct Captains here in Iowa re: this....take the info and consider and digest as you wish:

Political Attack: The Washington, D.C. leadership of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) union is running radio ads and sending out mail attacking Senator Obama for not supporting individual mandates, which would force people to buy health insurance that they can't afford.
Reality: Earlier this year, AFSCME President Gerald McEntee testified before Congress that he was "concerned with the...reform model attempts to achieve near-universal coverage through the use of individual mandates." And AFSCME's own health care resolution says that reforms that rely on "'individual mandates,' are incompatible with AFSCME's principles and long term interests." The mandates they were against just months ago are the same mandates that Senator Clinton and Senator Edwards support.

Political Attack: Obama's plan leaves 15 million Americans without insurance.
Reality: This attack ignores several features of Obama's plan, including his program to provide health insurance subsidies to low and middle income families, mandate coverage for children, and provide affordable coverage for young adults 18-25 (who are the least insured and most likely to disregard a mandate). The reality is that Obama's plan will cover every American. Take it from Robert Reich, President Bill Clinton's Secretary of Labor, who compared Obama's plan and Clinton's plan (with individual mandates) in detail, and wrote, "in my view Obama's would insure more people, not fewer, than Clinton's."

Political Attack: Individual mandates are the only way to ensure universal coverage.
Reality: There is no evidence that forcing people to buy health insurance before it's affordable actually works. There's a mandate in Massachusetts, and they're already about to start exempting people who can't afford it. In fact, other candidates who are offering plans with mandates have exemptions for Americans who can't afford coverage. There is no sense in mandating something people just can't afford. The Obama plan focuses on lowering costs and providing subsidies for people to get into the health care system currently provided to members of Congress.

[ClarkUSA]

41. Nice debunking, there, Iowa Guy.

Thanks, I'm bookmarking those. :hi:

How's it going in Iowa? Is it safe for me to come out (there's going to be a lo-o-ong drive) and help the campaign for the next week? ;-)

[VP505]

50. No, she didn't get it fgrom Krugnan.

she reportedly got it here:

"Clinton uses a dubious statistic when she claims Obama’s plan would leave out 15 million of the uninsured. But Obama’s statement that his proposal provides “universal" health care is also suspect.

Clinton based her claim on a column by The New Republic’s Jonathan Cohn, who loosely estimated Obama’s plan would leave 15 million uninsured:

Cohn (The New Republic, June 3): The best studies out there — by Urban Institute researchers, the RAND Corporation, and MIT economist Jonathan Gruber — suggest that, without a mandate, improving affordability will cover roughly one-third of the people who don't have coverage. Mandating that kids (but not adults) have coverage bumps that up to about a half. Obama's advisers think that, by really loading up on the subsidies … they can goose that up to two-thirds. But that's getting optimistic — and, even then, you still have around 15 million people who are uninsured."

http://www.factcheck.org/clinton_vs_obama.html

[ClarkUSA]

8. Where did you get the 15M number from? Prove it.

Links to a CREDIBLE source?

[Le Taz Hot]

55. It was obviously a push poll --

dishonesty never helps a candidate.

[silverweb]

2. Good job!

:yourock:

[K Gardner]

3. Good for you.. and excellent post about push polls and the downlow politics of HRC ! n/t

[ccpup]

6. you've assumed it was a Hillary Push Poll

based on what?

[MadBadger]

15. Shes the one using the 15 million number.

[ccpup]

18. and you don't think her other

opponents are aware of this 15 million number associated with Obama and his "health plan"? that's pretty flimsy evidence, if you ask me.

[MadBadger]

24. But Ive only seen and heard her use that number.

[ccpup]

26. then perhaps you should

try and find a flier from the Edwards campaign that refers to that number as well. It's not like the 15 million number is some Ancient Chinese Secret that only Hillary knows or anything.

[creeksneakers2]

44. AFSCME is using the number too

and putting out advertisements and literature with the same talking point. Couldn't the calls be coming from AFSCME?

[earthlover]

33. In reality it wasn't even a poll! It was a Hillary campaign phone call disguised as a poll

Perhaps the local Hillary campaign will use the numbers on the initial questions....but the follow ups with the campaign theme trotted out are nothing but phone solicitation. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with this, but I will keep knowledge of this when i read any numbers from "internal polls" from the Hillary camp

[journalist3072]

9. The facts are so inconvenient to the Obama apologists...I really do feel sorry for them.

[Bright Eyes]

14. Well, why don't you provide a link

proving the pollster's assertion?

[Bright Eyes]

22. Here, I'll do it for you

"I am absolutely determined that by the end of the first term of the next president, we should have universal health care in this country," the Illinois senator said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-25-obama-health_x.htm

As opposed to:

A Clinton adviser compares the plan's "individual mandate" -- which requires everyone to have health insurance -- to current rules in most states that require all drivers to purchase auto insurance, according to The Associated Press.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/17/health.care/index.html

[orleans]

47. it's getting hard for me to believe what ANY OF THEM are saying n/t

[tulsakatz]

10. well done!!

[ClarkUSA]

11. You go, girl!!

:applause:

By the way, did you get the name of the push polling corporation in question?

[papau]

12. interesting assumption it was a "Hillary" push poll when Edward's mailings say the same - &

newspapers report the same facts - but you indicated Obama was your guy no matter what his policies - and I can buy that since all three seem like fine candidates to me with reasonable policies - making the choice one of preference for things other than policy.

[flyarm]

16. thank you for taking that stand with that nasty push pollster!! i am so sick of the hillary bullshit

and her little lord pissy pants acting sheeple ..that excuse every piece of shit she flings out..it has me more than disgusted..i think i am watching KKKarl and his pigs in de ja vue..or ground hog day..its the same damn bullshit!

and i am mad as hell and not taking it anymore!!

I am flying to Iowa to help other candidates!

enough of this bullshit..and call it what it is it is bullshit and it is not democratic!

and the jerks that support her and say others are haters..are so full of bullshit..i will call them that to their faces!'

I have had it..haven't we all?? we have only lived this same shit for the past 7 years..enough..just enough!

fly

[ccpup]

20. um, Edwards is aware of that number, too

as are all the other Candidates. So, it may not, actually, be Hillary push polling. We have an anti-Hillary OP basing that assertion on the flimsiest of evidence (her opinion). Not that I want to interrupt your admirable sense of righteous anger, or anything, but there is no proof that Hillary made that call.

It could have been Edwards or Biden or Richardson or ...

[mruddy]

17. You're lucky if this is only the 1st time they've called you.

Tonight I got my 3rd call like that in just over a week. I'm in Iowa. In all 3 attempts, I said no way & refused to even listen to the 3 questions. Tonight I specifically asked them to remove my name from their call list. Lot of good that'll do!

[Perry Logan]

19. Still, it is interesting--Obama's health plan leaving 15 million people uninsured and all.

[Bright Eyes]

23. Again, provide a link

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

34. It's not interesting at all.

It's simply an assertion without anything to back it up. That helps no one and nothing. Not your candidate, not your candidate's campaign and certainly not the people who engage in such behavior.

I have to say, I find the tactics of some of Sen. Clinton's supporters here to be quite distasteful and alienating. Such tactics do her and her campaign more harm than good.

I daresay that if she is slipping in the polls, it might be time for a hard look at your tactics, especially those tactics that have been on display in places like DU, places where the Democrats are free range. We aren't dupes and mouth-breathing, drooling idiots. Sometimes, I get the feeling we are being engaged like we are just that.

That's very bad form.

[earthlover]

35. Those 15 million are not uninsured because insurace is affordable!

Obama is going to try to make it more affordable to begin with. This, along with other parts of his plan, will get more people to sign up.

Hillary's plan, which would require these folks to buy something they cannot afford, is unenforceable. What is she going to do with these folks who don't sign up?

[College Liberal]

21. Push Polls only make me vote against said candidate

Thanks for standing up to them.....


:hi:

[Blue-Jay]

25. Thank you for standing up for your beliefs and making up your own mind!

Nobody's buying your act, by the way...

[College Liberal]

27. Dude, what is your problem?

I have done or said noting to you. And for the record, i do make up my own mind. If i don't like a candidate then i just don't like them. And what act are you talking about? Hillary supporter, are we?

[Blue-Jay]

29. heh heh heh!

:hi:

[College Liberal]

31. Hi, back to you

For the record, i like all the TOP 3 Candidates.


:hi:

[SoxFan]

30. Get the number

Caller ID or *69

Let the campaign know about it. There are some fishy activities going on involving the Clinton campaign and its surrogates.

[rug]

37. This is a push post.

[HughMoran]

38. Yep

.

[avenger64]

39. Hey, come on, they're letting you be a cog in the machine ...

... you should feel privileged.

[AtomicKitten]

45. A refreshing retort. Kudos.

You're not at all the type of voter they are looking for:

[radfringe]

46. when I get letters in the mail from a Dem group asking for donations

I write on it show me impeachment and I'll show you the money - I then stuff everything into the postage paid envelope and mail it back to them

When I have gotten polling calls - I let them prattle on, when they are about to begin asking the poll questions I interrupt them and ask if there are any questions about impeachment. when they say no, I tell them the only question and issue I'm interested in is impeachment, I'd be happy to answer those questions, when there are impeachment polls please feel free to call back - goodbye.

[leftynyc]

48. You do realize there is nothing

that proves you didn't just make up this whole thing to diss HRC and try and uplift Obama? That's the problem here, anyone can make up anything and say it happened. I don't know if what you've relayed is the truth just as you have no way of knowing that Hillary's campaign was involved.

[VP505]

51. WRONG!

"Clinton uses a dubious statistic when she claims Obama’s plan would leave out 15 million of the uninsured. But Obama’s statement that his proposal provides “universal" health care is also suspect."

http://www.factcheck.org/clinton_vs_obama.html

[leftynyc]

52. What the hell does that have to do

with the possibility that the OP made up this entire story? And how does that prove that the Clinton campaign was involved regardless? Chill out and ease up on the caps lock key. You didn't prove a damn thing other than you obviously enjoy knee jerking against Hillary.

[VP505]

53. I was NOT

trying to prove anything other than Hillary did in fact claim that 15 million would not be covered and where she got that number from. Knee jerk, why bother, I am NOT going to vote for Hillary in the primary anyway? DON'T LIKE THE CAPS FOR EMPHASIS, TOO BAD.

[leftynyc]

54. Which had nothing to do with my post

which said there was nothing to say the OP didn't make all this up. As for the caps - try a diaper change - sounds like a good time for one.

[zanne]

49. You handled that so well.

Push-polls anger me so much that all I can ever get out is "I don't participate in push-polls". Then I hang up. Good job, TwoSparkles!

[dailykoff]

56. would you feel differently if you knew that Obama practices Santeria

when he's not worshiping Allah or dealing crack? For scientific purposes only.

:sarcasm: