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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:34 PM
Original message
Is This Really All There Is?
Is this one life all there really is?

All the evidence says that it is. Despite hocus pocus claims from preachers and urban legends about people who have been to heaven and come back, there's no evidence that life goes on after death. Consciousness is dependent on physical processes. When the brain dies and the body decays, there is no longer an organized physical process, so the only logical conclusion is that there is no consciousness.

But what about near death experiences? Couldn't they be proof of an afterlife? Let's examine the evidence. All the stories are just that – stories. Anecdotal evidence, as we've seen, is extremely weak, and should only be considered when stronger corroborating evidence exists. Were the people who experienced NDEs in good mental and physical condition? Obviously not, as near death is a pretty bad situation, both physically and mentally. We know that even minute changes in the brain can trigger wildly erratic perceptions and behaviors. Dying is considerably more than a minute change in the brain. On the surface, the evidence for NDE's as proof of an afterlife seems fragile at best.

We're still not done, though. Is there better evidence that NDE's are simply physical, and that the perceptions of heaven and hell are illusions? It turns out that there is quite a lot. Before discussing NDEs directly, we need to be clear on a few terms.

If you've ever watched the movie, The Princess Bride, you will remember Miracle Max's famous words about death: “Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do. Go through his clothes and look for loose change.” The scientific descriptions are not as witty, but they're not radically different. There is a big difference between clinical death and brain death. Clinical death usually results from cardiac arrest. When the heart stops pumping, neurons no longer receive oxygen. Without new oxygen, they continue to fire for a short while, sometimes with odd side effects. It would only be a slight stretch to say that a clinically dead person is mostly dead.

Brain death, on the other hand, is all dead. Clinical death can be reversed within a certain time frame. We've all heard stories, and seen depictions on medical dramas. The heart can be started chemically, electrically, and manually, depending on the situation. Assuming that there is still some neural activity, starting a clinically dead person's heart will bring them “back to life.” Not so with brain death. Once the brain dies, the person is fully dead, and will not come back.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/for_new_atheists_is_this_really_all_there_is
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Fed_Up_Grammy Donating Member (923 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep----this is it !
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. you only get one ride, and it doesn't last too long...
but then again, with time being infinite, and the universe almost ifinitely large...who knows...:shrug: maybe we each get another chance to pop-up somewhere, sometime, in some organic form...?

pity is- we won't have any memories from the previous ride(s), so would it really matter?
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. theres more. nt.
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hmm, maybe, maybe not
Edited on Fri Dec-28-07 08:49 PM by DemGa
Edit: I think there is more.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. No one can say, maybe.
No undead critters running around to tell us.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. I've read there's a very poor correlation between brain activity and mind activity.
Edited on Fri Dec-28-07 08:42 PM by Perry Logan
For example, people have reported dreams when they were in a coma.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Slightly off-subject, but I have flat-lined several times.
But only once did I have a distinct, memorable out-of-body event.

The rest just involved dreams about being at Death's door.

But the one event had me clearly thinking, "Oh, look at those poor kids. They have lost their friend". From about 60 feet above the scene.

But I am typing this right now, so I suppose I wasn't really dead.

Just pretty damned close.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Or, perhaps it's all just an illusion..not even your illusion.
“I once dreamed I was a butterfly, and now I no longer know whether I am Chuang Tzu, who dreamed I was a butterfly, or whether I am a butterfly dreaming that I am Chuang Tzu.” - Chuang-Tzu

Chinese philosopher of Taoism c. 4 B.C.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ask Peter Fonda
She said I know what it's like to be dead
I know what it is to be sad
And she's making me feel like I've never been born

I said who put all the things in your head
Things that make me feel that I'm mad
And you're making me feel like I've never been born

She said you don't understand what I said
I said no, no, no you're wrong
When I was a boy, everything was right
Everything was right

I said even though you know what you know
I know that I'm ready to leave
'Cause you're making me feel like I've never been born

She said you don't understand what I said
I said no, no, no you're wrong
When I was a boy, everything was right
Everything was right

She said
I know what it's like to be dead
I know what it is to be sad
I know that it's like to be dead

by John Lennon
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hope not.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. there's always pudding
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
12. It depends on what the meaning of "IS" is.
... and I don't mean that entirely waggishly. (That's just a bonus.) :shrug:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. Why wouldn't it?
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. Spiritual afterlife? Or, worm food? What's the difference?
I'm more comforted by the latter. Only in this fashion will I live on, aside from within the memory of my children and their children. And the Children of the Worms.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. You go back to where you came from before you were conceived.
Nowheresville, man.
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. fighter pilots
report identical experiences when blacking out from excessive G's.
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. Recommend reading
"Across Time and Death" by Jenny Cockell
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