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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:00 PM
Original message
Remember "The Iranian Hawks"
The Iranian Hawks:

Of the four senators among the Democratic candidates, only Hillary Clinton voted for the non-binding Kyl-Lieberman resolution on Sept. 26. The Kyl-Lieberman resolution, which passed 76-to-22, with 29 Democrats voting in favor, says, "the United States should designate Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization ... and place the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists." Jim Lobe, among the best journalists covering neoconservatism in Washington, wrote that unnamed "Capitol Hill sources" told him that the resolution was crafted by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Investigative reporter Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker, interviewed on "Democracy Now," concurred that the amendment was pushed by the Israel lobby.

It would be unprecedented to declare a military force of a state to be a "terrorist" organization, and illogical, since the formal definition of terrorism is that it is committed by non-state actors. It would also endanger U.S. troops, who might well be designated terrorists by some foreign governments. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said Sunday that she would not allow a similar resolution to be brought up for a vote in the House of Representatives, telling ABC's "This Week," "This has never happened before, that a Congress should determine one piece of someone's military is (a threat)."

Sen. Chris Dodd voted against the resolution on the grounds that it would green-light a Bush administration attack on Iran. Sen. Joe Biden also opposed it, though he argued that it was just a resolution and could not authorize a war. Sen. Barack Obama missed the vote because it was abruptly rescheduled after he had already left on a campaign swing, but when he learned of the rescheduling he issued a statement against the resolution. Obama blasted Clinton's vote for the resolution as a repeat of the mistake she made when she voted in 2002 to authorize the Iraq war. (Clinton muddied the waters somewhat by backing a resolution by Virginia Sen. Jim Webb requiring that Bush seek Congressional authorization before attacking Iran.) Some analysts suggested that Clinton is already thinking past the primaries. They believe she is making her decisions on the assumption that she will face a Republican hawk in the presidential contest of 2008, and therefore has to guard against charges that she is weak on national security. According to this analysis, the other Democratic candidates, trailing her, are still playing to the party faithful, who are to the left of the general public.

In short, Clinton's staffers must have read the Opinion Dynamics poll for Fox Cable News, which shows that 80 percent of the U.S. public believe that Iran's nuclear program is for weapons purposes, and 50 percent believe that the U.S. should take a tougher line with Iran (as against 31 percent who do not). About 29 percent of the sample want Bush to go ahead and attack Iran before leaving office, while a bare majority thought he should leave the problem to the next president. Some 54 percent of respondents believed that if Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been allowed to visit the site of the Sept. 11 attacks, he would have been intent on honoring the hijackers.

<...>


The Iraq problem is so intractable that bringing it up with voters is dangerous, since they will then ask about policy prescriptions, and most experts agree that the U.S. has no good options. Iran, in contrast, looms as a vague sort of threat on the horizon and politicians can therefore pull out of their tool kits their favorite instrument -- speaking hypothetically without committing to a particular course of action. The problem, as Chris Dodd and Barack Obama saw so clearly, is that in attempting to change the conversation to Iran, American politicians and their morbidly aggressive constituents may be vastly widening the quagmire, playing Katrina to the Middle East's New Orleans.


Sen. Webb blasts Lieberman/Kyl Amendment: “This proposal is Dick Cheney’s fondest pipe dream”

Juan Cole on Kyl-Lieberman:

Among the more fantastic charges that Bush made against Iran was that its government was actively arming and helping the Taliban in southern Afghanistan. In fact, the Taliban are extremist Sunnis who hate, and have killed large numbers of Shiites. Shiite Iran is unlikely to support them. The neo-Taliban are a threat to the Karzai government, which represents the Northern Alliance (Tajiks, Hazara and Uzbeks) along with non-Taliban Pushtuns. The Hazara are Shiite clients of Iran, and both the Tajiks and the Uzbeks are close to Tehran. The neo-Taliban are being supported by Pakistan, which resents the Northern Alliance, not by Iran, which favors it.

That Iran is trying to destabilize the Shiite government in Baghdad is absurd. The Bush administration charge that Iran is the source of explosively formed projectiles is based on very little evidence and flies in the face of common sense; in fact these bombs are probably made in Iraq itself or perhaps come from Hizbullah in Lebanon.

The charges are frankly ridiculous, and certainly are so if proportionality is taken into account. That is, if one bomb was sold by an Iranian arms dealer to the Taliban for profit, a hundred bombs were given to the Taliban by Pakistan for tactical reasons. Likewise, the Shiite militias in Iraq have killed very few American troops when the US troops have left the Shiites alone; most attacks on the US come from Sunni Arabs.

The Senate Kyl-Lieberman resolution helped legitimize this new Bush policy, which is why the senators should not have voted for it. It took us one more step down the road to war with Iran.


More Juan Cole on Kyl-Lieberman:

Those Iranians that the US military kidnapped from the compound of our ally Abdul Aziz al-Hakim and from the consulate in Irbil? Turns out that they weren't espionage agents after all, or Qods Force operatives, or anything. The US military is releasing them. The charges against them formed one of the bases for the Kyl-Lieberman resolution in the senate and also for the recent designation by Bush of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps as a 'terrorist' organization (even though it is a state organ!) So will those two measures now be repealed?


The focus of foreign policy should have been Pakistan, not Iran.


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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Definitely--but it took the neCons 20 years (or more ) to plan Iran--
You can't expect them to just abandon it for a country that has nukes and a bordering country it broke off from that also has them, can you?

These things take time--and we've got all the time in the world when 2 countries that share a very uneasy border have nukes... :eyes:

If you feel safe now, this should help even more: India suspends rail service to Pakistan...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071229/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanattacksbhuttoindiarail
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kick! n/t
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kyle-Lieberman was a FAR more egregious vote than the original Iraq vote was. Any Dem who
voted for Kyle-Lieberman deserves all the heat they get for voting yes on that absurdity!
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. another conveniently 'missed' vote by Obama ...DODD and BIDEN didn't miss it!
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Wasn't this the one Reid (son is a Hillary state chair) conveniently re-scheduled?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. And Hillary voted the wrong way on K/L. How did nearly
Edited on Sun Dec-30-07 11:26 AM by blondeatlast
every other Dem manage to show up for the vote?

I've heard that sorry excuse too many times and I ain't buying it. Obama just didn't want to be on the record with this one. I may despise the way HRC voted on it, but she gets props for having the guts to go on the record with it.
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