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Clinton calls Democratic Rivals 'Soft on Terror"

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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:35 PM
Original message
Clinton calls Democratic Rivals 'Soft on Terror"


ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: While speaking Monday at South Carolina's Allen University, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., appears to have borrowed a page from President Bush's rhetorical playbook in going after an unnamed rival as being soft on terrorism.

"To underscore a point, some people may be running who tell you we don't face a real threat from terrorism," Clinton said in response to a question about the war. "I'm not one of them. We have serious enemies who want to do us serious harm."

Phil Singer, a spokesperson for Clinton's campaign, told ABC News that Clinton "was not referring to anyone in particular."

But a specialist in presidential rhetoric, Wayne Fields of Washington University in St. Louis, sees Clinton's comment as "disingenuous if not dishonest."

"The whole business of the straw man argument -- of referring to a position that is an oversimplification, or, in some cases, a complete exaggeration of what any particular opponent has said, is pretty standard," Fields told ABC News. "But it's always disingenuous if not dishonest."

As Jennifer Loven of the Associated Press wrote in a 2006 analysis of President Bush's rhetoric, "when the president starts a sentence with 'some say' or offers up what 'some in Washington' believe . . . a rhetorical retort almost assuredly follows."

"The device usually is code for Democrats or other White House opponents. In describing what they advocate, Mr. Bush often omits an important nuance or substitutes an extreme stance that bears little resemblance to their actual position," wrote the AP's Loven. "He typically then says he 'strongly disagrees,' conveniently knocking down a straw man of his own making."

In the case of Clinton, to whom is the senator referring?

Of her top three rivals in Iowa, the state which hosts the Democratic Party's first nominating contest, all three have staked out positions to her left on the Iraq war: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., regularly reminds voters that he spoke out against the war before it began, former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., repeatedly calls his vote authorizing force a mistake, and former Gov. Tom Vilsack, D-Iowa, has urged members of Congress to use their power to cut off funding for all U.S. fighting in Iraq.

But while all three of them have gotten to Clinton's left on the Iraq war, they have all joined Clinton in identifying terrorism as a threat to the United States.

"Most of all, let's be the generation that never forgets what happened on that September day and confront the terrorists with everything we've got," Sen. Obama said while formally declaring his presidential bid in Springfield, Ill.

"We live in a dangerous world," Gov. Tom Vilsack, D-Iowa, said in his formal declaration of candidacy, "a world with real threats. Every day on our way of life is threatened by terrorism from around the world."

In his 2004 speech to the Democratic National Convention, Edwards said that he and Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., would have "one clear unmistakable message for Al Qaida and these terrorists: You cannot run. You cannot hide. We will destroy you."

Fields, who was quoted in the AP's analysis of Bush's rhetoric, sees a similarity between Clinton's South Carolina comments and the tactics of the man she is trying to succeed.

"I would say it is a kind of ploy," Fields told ABC News. "It obfuscates rather than clarifies -- in that way, it is similar to what the president does."
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well......she is STUPID on terror.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow. Another comparison to the blivet; not good. nt
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Some say..."
Ugh.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Is Karl Rove writing her talking points these days?
If she's the nominee, I'll vote for her, but I'm liking that option less and less these days.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh Lordy, The Iron Maiden routine has one too many moles of Fe
Someone grab a magnet and pull her back into the middle.
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. If she starts running on terrorism, she can go to hell imo.
The next US leader needs to admit that terrorism has been used as a political tool, and it's something that needs to be dealt with but not talked about so much.

If she's wanting to yap about it that would be the first and last thing I need to know she's not a suitable candidate.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Really....
Let's look at this quote:
"To underscore a point, some people may be running who tell you we don't face a real threat from terrorism," Clinton said in response to a question about the war. "I'm not one of them. We have serious enemies who want to do us serious harm." We do? Ok we do. Now can you tell me why? They hate our freedom? Is that it? Is that the best you can do? Sorry that might fly with the double digit IQ crowd, but get that bullshit out of my face.

She's as pathetic as McCaine..
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Here here
Well said;
I guess I would answer her like this;
Yes we do have serious enemies that want to do us serious harm, and we are making more of them by the hundreds every day that we pursue this war to try to kill them all.
That is just stupidity. The way to stop it is to find out WHY they hate us and try to do something to improve the situation. We are acting like the bullies of the world, and bullies are never liked, only feared and hated.
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. May I just add ...
:puke:
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. I trust her
to leverage her political will against anyone she sees as a threat to her attaining her goal. Not so sure I condone it.
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Boy, talk about nit-picking
Are any of the other candidates' words parsed like this? (BTW, Michelle Obama talked about some people saying her husband wasn't white enough or black enough. I didn't care about that, or this.)
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. True - done on Obama's side and DU says nothing - it is an "ugh" - but I like using a GOP
Edited on Tue Feb-20-07 10:31 PM by papau
technique just to let the boys on the right know that she knows the game and is willing to play as hardball as they do.

Using "Some people may be running who may tell you that we don't face a real threat from terrorism," is a neat turnaround of a standard GOP low blow - the objection on DU seems to be that it is unfair against fellow Dems. But then DUers complain that our nominee never fights as hard and down and dirty as the GOPer. Here we have an example of two possible nominees (but Obama gets a pass?) showing the ability to play the GOP game, and DU is in a tizzy.

Besides Hillary never says that "some people" are the folks currently announced for the Democratic primary, does she?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
31. Is Mrs. Obama a candidate?
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hillary won't even defend this nation against Bush**
There's nothing she's done that makes me think she can defend us against terrorists.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. If you had to classify her
Edited on Tue Feb-20-07 09:51 PM by BushDespiser12
as a champion for the middle class paupers, or more of a proponent for the interests of big business, where would you place her?

Edit: Oops -- meant to be attached to main OP
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. This woman needs to be stopped. She is a disaster waiting to happen. (nt)
Edited on Tue Feb-20-07 09:55 PM by w4rma
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Our "front runner" is rapidly becoming another Lieberman!
Get her the fuck out of the race before we're doomed.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. "...it is similar to what the president does."
Says it all.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. just the rantings....
....of another corporate, perpetual-war-mongering presidental trainee....

....she ought to be to the right of bush by the primaries....she's making it easier and easier not to vote for her....
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. "some people may be running who tell you we don't face a real threat from terrorism"
That's pretty vague. As long as she keeps it like that I won't get terribly upset with her. I won't vote for her in the primaries, but I don't believe that that kind of rhetoric is beyond the pale.

If she starts lying about real people or misrepresenting what they've said, then I'll really be upset. That kind of stuff would pave the way for a Republican victory in 08.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I agree :-)
:-)
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
40. No where in that vague statement does she say her opponents
"are soft on terror" like the original poster indicated..
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. Way to go Joe, uh, er, Hillary
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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. Huh. Talk like that is going to hurt her in the primaries
She has to be pretty confident if shes already running for the general.
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Slimey, disgusting and Bush-like
"I would say it is a kind of ploy," Fields told ABC News. "It obfuscates rather than clarifies -- in that way, it is similar to what the president does."
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. Good study, Hillary, kudos.
You're using the language of the right for your own "triangulations". Good move, it'll bring all those centrists into your own sphere.

Nice use of the "some people" strawman combined with the ramping up of fear of the evil boogeyman.

Well done.

Senator Lieberman will pay you a visit in the near future, you've earned it.

Take whatever he offers.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oh great Hillary
Edited on Tue Feb-20-07 10:44 PM by Downtown Hound
The Republican lite approach has worked so well in the past, let's keep it up!

:sarcasm:

If Hillary keeps up this kind of speech and becomes the Democratic nominee, I think we can kiss the White House goodbye in 2008.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-20-07 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
26. So is she strong enough on the terrorists to impeach them? nt
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
27. Does ignorance ...
still play in South Carolina?
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Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
28. GROAN
Just fucking go away
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Hillary wants to be thought of as strong. She figures it worked for Margaret Thatcher.
Edited on Wed Feb-21-07 10:40 AM by WinkyDink
I preferred her when she spoke of vast Right-wing conspiracies.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
29. Link?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
39. Link to ABC News blog
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
30. where are her apoLogists?
c'mon, expLain this away for us.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
32. Funny how the DLCers use right-wing talking points to slam fellow Democrats.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
34. She really should get someone other than Rove to write her speeches.
Although the rhetoric did work for Bush, it's grown thin when diluted with reality.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
35. It wouldn't surprise me if she picks Lieberman for her running mate.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
36. i love Hillary, but her quote - a copy from the right-wing
morons makes me shiver. this is not the way to win.
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
37. Good thinking Hillary. Go the route of Angelides-Westly in the Cal Dem Primary last year.
We all saw how well THAT turned out. :eyes:
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-21-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
38. I am terrified of anyone who think I should be terrified nt
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