Did Obama lose anyone here today with his attack on Al Gore & blaming left for US division?

[Harper_is_Bush]

In case you missed it:

Obama slams Gore
by kos
Tue Jan 01, 2008 at 08:23:49 AM PST

Psst, Barack, slamming John Kerry and Al Gore is what Republicans do. Not Democrats.

Making an argument for his electability, Obama said, "I don't want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats -- we've done that in 2004, 2000," according to a person at the event (rush transcript).

Funny, that. Last time I checked, Gore won his election. And really, is Obama going to argue now that the nation was divide because of the Democrats' fault? Is that the latest right-wing talking point he wants to peddle?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/1/112349/1037

If you are/were an Obama supporter I'm curious to know what your reaction to this is.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Rosemary2205]

16. Sad isn't it.

You'd think we could leave the lying about a Democrat to the Pukes.

I'm not particularly an Obama supporter, and not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and even I can read that whole speech in context and know instantly the mass hysteria over Obama's words are all bullshit.

[Harper_is_Bush]

20. Can you link the whole speech for me, please?

thx.

[maximusveritas]

46. Here you go

Look at this post of mine explaining how the media completely misquoted Obama:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3922486&mesg_id=3922486

[Harper_is_Bush]

53. Ok, so you don't have anymore of the speech than anyone else. Didn't think you did.

And you're not giving it anymore context by saying he doesn't mention Kerry or Gore by name. Who ran in 2000? Gore!
Who ran in 2004? Kerry! It's hardly necessary to name them.

You are just coming up with your own innocuous interpretation, not providing context.

[maximusveritas]

55. Actually I did

And of course it's neccesary to name them in order to blame them as the attacks on him have suggested. He's just saying that was the situation. Not assigning any blame to anyone.

[Harper_is_Bush]

58. Well then, link it. You certainly aren't linking it in the post you directed me to.

Unless you think that Newsday link is it, in which case you're just not paying attention.

[maximusveritas]

62. I didn't link it, but I had the quote

Sorry about that. I thought I had included it.
You can find more at this link:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Bloggers_accuse_Obama_of_slamming_Gore_0101.html

The fact is that this is one of the most ridiculous stories I've ever seen. Obama is saying what almost everyone agrees with. We don't want to have another 50-50 election that comes down to the wire and the Republicans can steal. We need a landslide and Obama thinks he can do it.

[Harper_is_Bush]

66. Yeah, and I've seen all of the quote and the rawstory item also, thx.

And it's not ridiculous at all.

He's not simply saying he doesn't want another 50-50 election, he's saying that UNLIKE the candidates that ran in 2000 and 2004, HE will be able to avoid that situation.

If he wanted to say he wanted to reach out and make the nation less divided and bring more voters over to the Democrats so it won't be a 50-50 election, he could have said that. Instead, he singled out the 2000 and 2004 elections. Why?

[maximusveritas]

70. Because those were the two 50-50 elections in recent history

What other recent elections were that close and evenly divided?
And of course he thinks he will be able to avoid it. If not, why would he be running? In order to lose another close election?

[Harper_is_Bush]

72. Well, Gore actually won his election. Obama wasn't even 40 at the time, so maybe he doesn't recall

the details.

Listen, it's quite clear that the context of his comments were that Hillary would divide the nation, just like it was divided in 2000 and 2004.

The problem with that comment is he's laying blame for that division at the feet of the candidates. The comment was made in the context of which candidate is running - as in him or Hillary. If it's him, he feels the nation wouldn't be divided. if it's Hillary, he feels it would be divided...just like 2000 and 2004.

He should have recognized how his comments would be interpreted.

[mahina]

50. I'm getting tired of these inentional misrepresentations.

That is not what Barack Obama said. He did not attack Al Gore. This is a persistent theme, restating and putting words in the man's mouth and then feigning shock. It is shocking, but not in the way you intend.

I hope enough people around here can think this stuff through before you achieve your objective of misinforming good people.

[Richard Steele]

56. Please rest assured that most of us DUers recognize these posts for what they are.

The sheer mindless repetition has long since seen to it that only
a tiny percentage of us regard them as anything but "high camp"
at this point, no matter the candidate they purport to support.

Richard

[mahina]

59. Mahalo,

that was kind of you to post. We're getting creamed in New Orleans at the moment, University of Hawaii 3, Georgia 31, and it's putting a strain on my sense of perspective. I'm grateful for yours. Aloha.

[Richard Steele]

71. Well, one small condolence I can offer:

Georgia is just a STEAMROLLER this season. Losing to them
is nothing to be ashamed of.

In the grand scheme of things, y'all should be MORE proud of the season
you've had than some certain teams that were EXPECTED to be "great"... knowhutImean?

How many teams were even INVITED to go up against Georgia?
ONE, that's how many.



As far as College Football goes, it could be worse, believe me.
Let's just say that I live in Durham NC and leave it at that, knowhutImean? :rofl:

[mahina]

74. Got you, and thanks again.

:)

[Bake]

91. Welcome to the SEC!

But I actually felt sorry for Brennan ... got demolished so many times ...

Bake

[mahina]

101. Oh Man, me too.

And I know a couple of the O line. It was so, so sad. But I'm grateful to them, they gave us a great season. Shame it ended that way. It's one thing to lose.
Anyhow, aloha.

[Bake]

103. Aloha!

And I hope Brennan's got some Advil ... he's a great player.

Bake

[mahina]

60. now 3-37,

and I officially now hate the song "Glory Hallelujah." Never thought that would happen. Anyway, thanks.

[Harper_is_Bush]

61. What "inentional misrepresentations"?

Some people think that because he didn't actually name Gore that it wasn't a jab at Gore.

It was a jab at the Dem candidate that ran in 2000, and the candidate that ran in 2004.

We know who those candidates were, he doesn't have to speak their names.

For whatever reason, Obama thinks those candidates were to blame for the US being a divided electorate.

It's quite clear, no misrepresentation.

[mahina]

73. Well, undies on fire because he said he didn't want to go

into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats -- we've done that in 2004. He said nothing about Gore, or Kerry.


How reasonable would it be to say, I'd like very much to go into the next election with .05 of the country supporting the Democrats?


The other big assed lie touted by the bots was a misrepresentation about responsibility for Bhutto's death, repeated endlessly, and completely false. More recent was another misrepresentation, this one said to be about Hillary, that didn't say anything about HIllary. Obama: "We can’t afford a politics that’s all about terrorism and ripping people down rather than lifting a country up," he said. "We can’t afford a politics based on fear that leaves politicians to think the only way they can look tough on national security is to vote and act and talk just like George W Bush."

I check every quote that strikes me as outrageous these days, and I find that they are usually not what was really said. Let's just say a consistent pattern has emerged.

[Richard Steele]

77. You want "intentional misrepresentations"? Take a moment sometime, and SMELL YOURSELF.

nm

[redqueen]

89. What does that even mean?

:wtf:

[Harper_is_Bush]

96. I smell myself often, as a precaution. I don't see what that has to do with this situation though.

n/t

[Dorian Gray]

85. Seriously

I was leaning more toward HRC, but now I think that I want to vote for him because of the mass hysteria! It seems so false. (Of course, I don't have any important primaries to stress about, so for me, I think I can embrace any of the candidates that are chosen for the party. Especially the big three. They are all such a vast improvement over the status quo that I'll embrace anyone who is chosen for us whole-heartedly!)

[surfermaw]

105. He is going to loose Dem, and pick up republicans he is campaigning for

Hasn't there already been reports that republicans are switching to vote democrat, and Obama will get most of that vote( Not exact words but similar)

[Harper_is_Bush]

19. What is the lie? Please explain.

He clearly accuses the Dem candidates of being the cause of divisiveness in '00 and '04.

So tell me, what is the lie?

[Yael]

2. He lost any chance of me working for him if he gets the nom for his attacks this week

Hes no better than Hillary.

[xultar]

3. I would suspect many here agree at least with the fact that the divide is the Democrats

fault. Well at least that is the screaming-point I hear most.

[juajen]

12. I sure haven't heard anything like what you have.

For pity's sake, should we bow down to the pugs just so there's unity. Preposterous! Though I am a Hillary supporter, I had hoped to vote for Obama in the future. Now, I won't. He's just ignorant or disingenuous, or both.

[Neecy]

4. nope. Still support Obama.

[DemKR]

5. he lost me. i've had his number for a long time nt

[DUyellow]

14. Really? never would have guest

[Hoof Hearted]

35. But would your guest have guessed? n/t

[JackORoses]

64. like he ever wanted you

some infections of Hillarism are incurable

[SeattleGirl]

6. He lost me a couple of months ago with his remark about the Baby Boomers.

First off, it put an entire generation into one category, as if we're all the same age, all did the same thing, etc.

Secondly, isn't HE part of the Boomer generation?

Third, I'd strongly advise against making remarks about a whole generation, seeing as how we do comprise a large segment of the population. No, we don't all vote, and we don't all vote the same way, but I have to say, that really, really pissed me off. I know he was going after Hilary when he said it, but I'd much rather he just called her out be name, and leave the rest of us out of it.

[DemKR]

9. he is slowly becoming a karl rove style politician

[Little Star]

97. That one got to me also. Seems he only likes young smooth

skin. Therefore, I'll take my old wrinkley body and vote for Edwards.

[alteredstate]

7. My reaction is digust

with those who continue to post this twisted tale.

[Harper_is_Bush]

17. I realize you probably don't like it, being an Obama supporter, but how is it "twisted"?

They are his words.

He is clearly saying that due to the candidates that ran in '00 and '04 for the Democrats, the nation was divided.

If he's not saying Gore divided the nation, what is he saying? Please, untwist his words for me.

[dogishboy]

32. I keep asking the same question

I just don't understand how a statement about the dem candidates in 2000 and 2004 could be interpreted as having nothing to do with Gore and Kerry.

[dorkulon]

8. Amazing what qualifies as an attack these days

We all know Gore got more votes, but the nation was still roughly evenly divided. That's all he said here. Relax.

[xultar]

13. If Hillary said it how would you feel about it? Her blaming Gore for the divide?

[dorkulon]

23. If Hillary said this:

"I don't want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats -- we've done that in 2004, 2000,"

I wouldn't think she was blaming Gore for squat. I would think she was making a boilerplate appeal for crossover voters in Iowa.

[dogishboy]

34. So Obama makes "cross over appeals" to Democrats?

He said this at a campaign event, which is presumably attended by people who are mostly democrats.

This is just as much BS as the claim that BO was "reaching out" to repukes when he had his ex-gay tour, which performed at DEMOCRATIC events.

[dorkulon]

42. Do you get how this works?

Like Obama, most Democrats would like to win by more than a sliver. In other words, Obama is trying to say "I am electable." Frankly, I am still undecided, but I think this "attack" is about as genuine as Kerry's joke "calling the troops stupid" last year.

[dogishboy]

45. I'm sorry

I got completely screwed up.

And I disagree that BO is simply saying that he is electable. For one thing, it's an awfully odd way to say "I'm electable". More importantly, it's not the first time that Obama has suggested that other people on our side were "divisive". He's said similar things about boomers, activists from the 60's, and certain politicians of the 90's.

This was NOT a "simple slip of the tongue" like Kerry's botched joke. Obama said exactly what he meant to say. Obama meant to say that he won't "start off with half the country being against" him, UNLIKE GORE AND KERRY as if there is something different about BO that will make the repukes less nasty.

You and I both know that the repukes are going to throw the book at any dem that gets the nom. BO's claim to be somehow different than Gore or Kerry in this regard is just so much BULL

[dorkulon]

49. BS? Sure. But let's not pretend it's some insane attack

on Gore or Kerry.

[Harper_is_Bush]

18. So, Gore was to blame for that divisiveness, because Obama won't be divisive?

That it?

[dorkulon]

24. This is a BS manufactured controversy.

All Obama's guilty of here is saying he wants more people to vote for him than voted for Gore or Kerry. Frankly, whoever wins the Democratic nomination, I hope the same thing for them.

[NYCGirl]

25. No, if anything, the bogus impeachment proceedings were to blame. NT

[ProfessorGAC]

106. You Do Realize, I Hope, That Most Of Us Here . . .

. . .live in three dimensions, not the two you live in. So, you're going to have to conceptualize what it's like to not be a cartoon.
The Professor

[Elidor]

10. He lost me a long time ago

His recent behavior merely reinforces my view that he is profoundly unsuited to lead this country.

[NashVegas]

11. Uh, Yeah

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3921981

Not that I have a candidate, but ... anyone who would give that much credence to the RW hate machine's echo chamber isn't my idea of a fighter.

[scarletwoman]

15. He never had me. (nt)

[Blue_In_AK]

38. Damn, Scarlet

We did it again. See my post below. :rofl:

[scarletwoman]

43. Well, now we know it takes 33 minutes for our shared brain to travel from MN to AK.

Right? :rofl:

:hi:
sw

[Blue_In_AK]

63. That's got to be it.

Obviously, I should have read through the replies first before I answered, and I could have saved myself some keystrokes. I think I should just do a search of your posts and put "ditto" under all of them. :rofl:

[scarletwoman]

69. No, that won't work. We'd have to keep track of which way the brain has traveled for every post.

I mean, 50% of the time, I'd have to be posting "ditto" to you -- for the times that our shared brain is making the trip from AK to MN.

:D
sw

[Beausoir]

21. I will support him if he is the nominee. But I am very disappointed in him. The gay-bash Southern

tour was a huge negative for me.

[DemGa]

22. A quote from a blog from another blog

I'm not fan of Obama for President, but this quote lacks any context that might add some clarity. Moreover, I don't know if Obama really said it or not.

[Harper_is_Bush]

28. The quote is on ABC's website. He said it. n/t

[Postman]

26. So how do you bridge that gap, Mr Obama?

By moving to the right?

Maybe that is a viable option when the country is relatively comfortable in relatively comfortable times. But that is not the case today.

Eventually, Joe Sixpack will realize that he gets burned when he puts his finger over an open flame and will correct his actions....maybe.

[madrchsod]

27. where did he mention gore or kerry

"I don't want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats. We've done that in 2004 and 2000. 47 percent of the country on one side, 47 percent of the country on the other . . . We don't need another one of those elections."

where did he attack gore or kerry? i do not see any mention of them in this quote. he`s stating the obvious if we want to win we need more than 47%, hell we need a lot more than 50%


i`m a dennis supporter and i find no fault in what he said. if obama happens to state the obvious attack him and his supporters or anyone else that thinks he is correct

[Harper_is_Bush]

29. Who ran in 2000? Gore. Who ran in 2004? Kerry.

I think we can agree on that.

[dogishboy]

37. I bet you think wrong

How could there be any HOPE of agreement with someone who thinks a statement about the dem candidates in 2000 and 2004 has nothing to do with Gore and Kerry?

It's like thinking BO will get the repukes to like him

[killbotfactory]

80. And did they win by overwhelming margins?

[Gloria]

30. I wouldn't lift a finger to work for him...and may actually sit it out

I"m no HIllary fan...I've called her "Bush-like"...but I'm not a candidate out there, screwing with the whole party.

He enraged me the other day with the GOP "trial lawyer" talk...I had his number early on, but I'm beginning to resent not having a say in the matter in terms of this primary schedule....

[ladjf]

31. He lost me when he vowed that if elected , he would focus the

military attention of finishing the job with the Tali ban in Afghanistan. Sounds like another endless war to me.

[MH1]

33. Get real. DUers bash Kerry for breakfast lunch and dinner. And nightcap.

The feigned outrage here is pretty funny.

Obama didn't call out Kerry or Gore here any more than he has by making his opposition to the IWR a key point of his campaign. By the logic you are using here, every time he hits Hillary or Edwards with that, he's bashing Kerry.

[Harper_is_Bush]

48. People bash Kerry for arguably a fair reasons...such as not fighting the Swifties harder

Bashing Gore for dividing the nation is bullshit, imo.

[Leopolds Ghost]

75. Whell, now, that's totally hypocritical. Neither you or KOS defends Kerry from Obama's attack.

So much for fairness.

Apparently Gore is more, but Kerry can be thrown under the bus.

[Blue_In_AK]

36. He never had me... n/t

[OzarkDem]

39. Probably

He didn't have my support from the beginning, but is ongoing campaign to bash other Dem leaders and act as an unwanted apologist for the party is getting really old.

Its not just dishonest and cheap, it also doesn't attract undecided voters, as he thinks it will.

His remarks have reinforced my belief that he's not a very bright or experienced person.

[MalloyLiberal]

40. Yes, he lost me today, the nerve of that man to say something like that! Who woulda thunk!

[mitchtv]

41. didn't lose me. Never had me

the most republican of all the Dem candidates.
wrong on Nuclear; wrong on Social Security
wrong on selling out to the Lieberman crowd

[Stop Cornyn]

44. Obama lost me with his half-assed health insurance plan and right-wing attacks of the better plans.

Then Obama re-lost me over Donnie McHomophobe.

Now, he's losing me all over again. Obama has slipped into that dark crevasse between Hillary and Richardson way in the back.

[DemKR]

47. HEAR HEAR

[Canuckistanian]

51. He lost me during the MySpace fiasco

When someone does you a huge favor, you don't stab them in the back.

MyDD has the story:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/5/2/93621/10103

[DemKR]

54. yep

[Richard Steele]

52. Pfft. Another failed attempt to achieve "spin". I guess someone didn't get a CLUE for Xmas.

nm

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. nit picking

the poor man can say what he likes

[DemKR]

65. lol @ poor man.Gimme a break

[autorank]

67. Well, the thread was pulled. j

It was brutal at post 1 and got more intense from there. Other than that, it's been a routine
day around here.

[killbotfactory]

68. I think it's a gigantic stretch of the imagination

to claim Obama was bashing Gore or Kerry.

The poll results have apparently made people so crazy they are imagining things to get upset about.

[Czolgosz]

76. recommended

[JDPriestly]

78. Obama seems to think that the country is going to miraculously

join together behind him just because he hopes it will. He does not have enough experience in national politics to realize that it is going to take a fight against entrenched special interests to bring the country together. Obama taught constitutional law, so I assume he understands that. But he does not seem to have any gut sense of the regional, religious and ideological conflicts that are dividing Americans.

If you think about his background, his ignorance in this regard is understandable. He grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia. Then he went to university and law school in the east and only as an adult lived in Illinois in the midwest. He has never lived in the south. I don't think he understands the mentality of southerners at all. He has never lived in a state with a history of slavery. He has never lived in the continental west. And I don't think he has ever bothered to learn about the people or problems in those areas. Given his ignorance about these things, it is understandable that he thinks he can unite the country. He is glossing over the terrible social fissures in our country amd is in for a big shock one of these days.

Edwards clearly understands what is dividing America. I do not support her because I believe that, while she understands these divisions, she has, unfortunately and not totally due to any conduct on her part, become a symbol for the divisiveness. Therefore, I am pretty certain that she will not be able to unite Americans. Nevertheless, I believe that Clinton has experienced different regions of the U.S. and also understands why we are divided as we are. Obama is a babe in the woods on this issue.

[redqueen]

92. Was that first "her" in your last paragraph there...

referring to Clinton? Or Edwards?

:shrug:

[JDPriestly]

93. Sorry, I was referring to Clinton and typed Edwards.

Edwards on my mind, I guess.

[Califooyah Operative]

79. What?

That's a 'slam' or 'attack'? He stated a fact. It had nothing to do with Kerry or Gore but about the polarization of the country. Those trying to make this out to anything more show obvious desperation.

[Telly Savalas]

98. We really need a General Discussion: Obvious Desperation forum.

[Califooyah Operative]

102. haha, oh so true! nt

[readmoreoften]

81. I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure I can barely support him in the general.

*Dividing the LGBT community and the Black community
*Gays and Democrats have to reach out to the "faithful" (as if LGBT people and Dems have no beliefs)
*It's the leftist baby boomers' fault
*Social security needs fixing
*Gore and Kerry are the problem


How many RW talking points can this guy cram into a sentence. Change in the wrong direction. I simply can't stand this guy.

[OneBlueSky]

82. "Last time I checked, Gore won his election" . . .

Kerry also won, and by a good margin . . . the reason Bush is in the White House is malleable voting machines and other nefarious election day tactics employed by the other side . . . and by now massively documented -- although you'd never know it if you get your information from the corporate media . .

[LanternWaste]

83. It's not an attack, merely an observation...

It's not an attack, merely an observation, however I can readily understand why a person who has a fear of Obama winning the primaries would deny the rational explanations and depend on dramatic and overblown "Enquirer" style questions and comments.

Being as I haven't chosen or ruled out a candidate yet, I think we can safely call it, with less bias than otherwise being the case, a simple observation.

Although I can fully understand why you'd call it an attack-- it's good copy to use it as such. It entertains a notion that Obama "attacked" a contemporary icon of the left, thus opening him to more (unearned and invalid) criticism. It's still a pretty effective tactic though-- disingenuous at best, but still an effective tactic.

[johnaries]

84. Yes, he lost me.

He was only my second choice behind Edwards, but I can't believe that he parroted RW talking points that Dems are divisive. The divisiveness seen today was sown and culivated by the RW Smear Machine, not Dems.

[DemKR]

86. yep

[dave123williams]

87. I was giving him a chance; he just blew it.

[ItNerd4life]

88. Obama is 100% correct!

Just look at the divisiveness here on DU. He's trying to get Independents and Republicans to think he's electable not just Democrats. Reagan got over 60% of the vote because he got Democrats to cross the border, what's wrong with Obama trying to do the same thing by getting Republicans to cross the border?

Why should he try to please just Democrats when Democrats can't even come to grips with what it is that they want.

A Republican friend of mine plans on voting for Obama. He doesn't agree with all his policies but he believes he's the only one who is smart enough to not make dumb or selfish decisions. I agreed with him 100% as well.

[Robbien]

95. What nonsense

This is a Democratic primary. Democratic candidates are supposed to be trying to get Democratic votes, not play to the deeper darker slimy side of GOPers.

Your so called GOPer "friend" may or may not be voting for Obama, if you he is willing to vote for Obama it is because Obama embraces so many right wing platforms in his campaign. Some of this is okay in the general election when he is trying to court opposition party voters. But in a primary campaign, one is suppose to be courting their own party's voters. You would never see a GOPer candidate embracing Progressive ideas in their primary campaign, but you applaud when a Democratic candidate tightly hugs your GOPer ideas during a Democratic campaign.

The only people responsible for much of the division in the Democratic party and at DU are people such as you your GOPer friend and candidates such as Obama.

Funny, from of all the presidents you pick Reagan to hold up as a shining example of what should be done. Ha! Your facade is slipping.

[Chovexani]

90. Obama lost me when he threw me under the bus for votes

Along with the rest of the black LGBT community when he pandered to homophobes.

[Blarch]

94. Pure Propaganda

Yawn.

[Bombtrack]

99. this is the thread equivalent of a bullshit push-poll

nice

[Harper_is_Bush]

100. how so? He said what he said, and it's hard not to interpret it any other way.

He holds himself out as less divisive than Gore, Kerry, and (by implication) Clinton.

He goofed. The point he MEANT to make is he's less divisive than Clinton. While trying to make that point, he clumsily referenced Gore and Kerry.

It's not the Democrats fault that almost half the nation was dumb enough to vote for a rightwinger those election years, and Obama should keep that in mind.

[surfermaw]

104. Many, but will pick up from the republican he now campaigning for.