January 1, 1934: "The Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring" took effect

[bobthedrummer]

in Weimar Germany. It was forced sterilization.

It was part of the Nazis "race hygiene" pseudoscience and eugenics supported by politicized German professionals that led to the Holocaust.

Max Weinreich wrote "Hitler's Professors" in 1946. Heather Pringle's "The Master Plan" was published in 2006.

"Universal Fascism" was written by Michael Ledeen in 1972, it was based on his doctoral thesis.
SourceWatch profile
Michael Ledeen
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Michael_Ledeen

Chistopher Simpson's "Blowback: America's recruitment of Nazis, and its disastrous effect on domestic and foreign policy" was published by Collier/Macmillan in 1988.

Here's a link to excerpts from "Blowback" from Third World Traveler.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Blowback_CSimpson.html

We've got a lot of professions spewing that same old "race hygiene" eugenics junk right here in HOMELAND (tm).

Add your own examples to this thread.

[jwirr]

1. Which should not surprise anyone. This kind of prevention started in

the good old USA. Read "War Against the Weak: Eugenics and America's Campaign to Create a Master Race" by Edwin Black. This experiment took place in America from 1890s to about 1932 and involved some high ranking families that were very involved with GWs grandfather. My family were victims in this little cleansing program and I am damn lucky to be here at all.

[bobthedrummer]

2. Oh, I've read that too jwirr. I understand what Tommy Thompson's "reforms" mean

Fwiw, here's a link to an active informative parent thread I started last year-did you know that PNAC was funded out of Milwaukee?

"Escape to Wisconsin-like Nazis, neocons, organized crime and black ops did"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=186x21683

[jwirr]

3. What is it that Tom Paxton sings in that song where he says that

ideas cannot be stopped? Here it is back with us again. Or more likely it never left us.

[Lance_Boyle]

21. lasted into the 50s or 60s in VA and NC. n/t

[bobthedrummer]

4. Making a comment that Europeans are more intelligent than Africans

got Dr. James Watson removed from his position at that bastion of American eugenics Cold Spring Harbor Lab.

"Lab suspends DNA pioneer Watson" (BBC 10-19-2007)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7052416.stm

The American Bioethics Advisory Commission has a concise page on eugenics worth viewing today
http://www.all.org/abac/eugen02.htm

It would be nice to discuss this since it has profound implications for all of us.

[dipsydoodle]

35. Was a pretty stupid remark for him to have made

given that apparently nearly 70% of afro americans have got european dna.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. You're looking for examples of modern eugenics?

Well, there was that program a couple of years ago offering a cash incentive for drug addicts to get sterilized.

And I understand there's a movement underway to end birthright citizenship, that's eugenics in a kind of round about way.

[bobthedrummer]

6. "Life unworthy of life..."-there are many people that are dehumanized

here's a historic example from the Holocaust Teacher Research Center.org-yet these views have been expanded in the 21st century.

"Handicapped"
http://www.holocaust-trc.org/hndcp.htm

Who can give some current examples, particularly from the "policies" of the Decider's criminal administration?

[bobthedrummer]

7. Call out to DUers kick

[Octafish]

8. Prescott Bush was known as ''Sen. Rubbers.''

The guy had a certain Tricky protege, who said he was not a crook.



While they were busy talking about that, they must've forgot to bring up his NAZI past.

http://ecosyn.us/Bush-Hitler/Bush_Eugenics.html

[bobthedrummer]

10. That little link is much appreciated, Sir!

:thumbsup:

[Octafish]

40. The United States and the European Right (1945-1955)

It's a big PDF, but the book is worth oggling, especially the index and where it leads.

http://www.ohiostatepress.org/books/Book%20PDFs/Kisatsky%20United.pdf

Then, again, you probably helped write the thing.

[Quantess]

9. Well, maybe,

just maybe, people with serious, debilitating, genetic syndromes would be well advised to consider not passing their defective genes to their offspring. Maybe they really shouldn't have children.

[bobthedrummer]

11. Send them up the chimney and harvest what's usable then, huh?

All defined by the dominant deciders and experts of such matters.

Because that is what eugenics is about.

[Quantess]

12. The pendulum has swung so far toward the warm, fuzzy, encouragement for everyone to

pass their diseased genes to future generations, that I think it might be good thing if the pendulum swung back a little. It would be good for the gene pool.

[bobthedrummer]

13. Who's "gene pool" are you articulating for...nevermind, I see where you're at

:thumbsdown:

[Desertrose]

14. Some nice "liberal" & "progressive thinking" there,eh Bob?

Referring to the post above you.....:scared:

:hi:
DR

[bobthedrummer]

18. Sounds like Otmar von Verschuer to me...

:hi:

[BlueIris]

16. "(P)ass their diseased genes to future generations..."

Ew. EW. EW.

Holy shit.

I hope your genes are as pristine as you seem to feel entitled to demand everyone else's be. And if they're not, (not that I think you'd have the guts to get 'em evaluated) I hope you'll be first in line to be sterilized.

Again: Holy shit.

[bobthedrummer]

19. Sterilization, euthanasia, it gradually leads to genocide-the "final solution"

of "life unworthy of life"-and the infrastructure for that in HOMELAND (tm) is solid as well as support for it as our friend above so boldly stated imo.

That's the broader context of eugenics that I'd like to discuss.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Er, excuse me. But it's MY FUCKING LIFE AND BODY. If I'm terminally ill and want to choose my exit

it's not any of your fucking business, nor is it the business of Bill Frist, nor is it the business of the Pope, thank you very much.

How about the broader context of church and government related institutions telling free individuals what they can or can't do with their own bodies and reproductive systems, hmmm?

Where, precisely, is this bold push for eugenics you allege taking place in our society, according to you? What institutions or fields? Care to list some examples?

Edit: I'm not talking about the previous poster's views, which I most certainly disagree with. I'm specifically focusing on your argument that "euthanasia" leads to "the final solution".

[bobthedrummer]

43. I surely don't have to diagram post 19 for you impeachdubya.

If you have read this thread in sequence and appreciate the truth and history I merely restated the historical sequence that was followed in the Weimar and then the Third Reich, sterilization, euthanasia, the use of the race hygiene pseudosciences (promoting the "life unworthy of life" theme) combined with ancient mythology and religions based on "Nordic" and "Aryan" superiority that were culturally popular and used to support the propaganda of the Nazis.

Everything was politicized-just like today. It all led to the "final solution" of the Holocaust.
The infrastructure is certainly here today, the technologies of bioengineering have reached the point where we have patented lifeforms. 

The assigned identities and false taxonomies of the human/less than human have expanded beyond race/ethnic/cultural and I am convinced that your post shows internalization of many of the conceptual foundations justifying eugenics that we have been discussing.

As far as current "institutions and fields" do a couple of engine searches for yourself as I'm also convinced that all you want to do is argue or personally attack.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. 3 Questions: 1) Are you pro choice? 2) Do you think terminally ill people should have the right to

choose a pain-free exit for THEMSELVES?

3) What (and whose) axe are you really grinding, here?

[bobthedrummer]

45. Start your own thread and quit disrupting this one-you've been warned now.

I'm against the policies of systematic murder in all forms from any group. I despise corruption and I work hard at getting out the hidden history about a number of things. But anyone that's been here for awhile knows that.

I'm on record here as believing that there was a coup of sorts that got this criminal fascist administration installed and that patterns seen in history, which are being discussed in this thread, are present today in a stealthy way.

I believe that there is a Bush Family Evil Empire/BFEE and that it is dominated by a culture of death. Maybe that fact gets you reactionary to the point of disrupting because it resonates with something inside you.

I'm a hardcore anti-fascist politically and an independent, I'm also a Christian that speaks against the RW and the corruption within all organized religions.

Anyone that has been here for awhile knows that too.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. What, are you the thread police, now?

If you think I'm breaking the rules, hit the alert button.

Rather than trying to play jr. psychoanalyst with whatever lame insinuations you're throwing my way
(yes- because I support the right of people to control their own bodies, I'm secretly sympathetic to Nazi propaganda. You figured me out, Bob! :crazy:) maybe you want to answer the questions. I'll repeat #1, in case you missed it-

Pro Choice, Bob? Yes? No?

[Naturyl]

28. Well, you'll be glad to know that as a disabled person

I've decided not to have children and therefore not to create anymore "defectives" like myself. Of course, it was my decision to make - not yours. And it wasn't done for the benefit of the "gene pool," it was done because I don't consider myself qualified to be a good parent (not that many others bother to think about that, but hey)...

Congrats anyway on your support for eugenics. Very progressive indeed.

[NOLALady]

25. Sorta like Stephen Hawking?

[Ignis]

41. But why stop there? Snip those eyeglass-wearers, too! (nt)

[BlueIris]

15. Kick.

[dysfunctional press]

17. my congenital condition was a big part of my decision to get a vasectomy in my mid-30's.

which is when i was also first diagnosed correctly.

but then- it was my decision, and completely voluntary.
i just didn't think it would be right to have someone subjected to the chronic pain from my condition, just for the self-serving vanity of having an offspring.

[BlueIris]

20. Kick (because this topic still scares the shit out of me).

[bobthedrummer]

22. My "diseased genes" understand that-in US eugenics wearing glasses made one "defective"

but in the Third Reich eyeballs, especially from twins, were "compared scientifically"
:puke:

[bobthedrummer]

23. Two historic examples of pseudoscience-one from the Third Reich, one from our nation

they've always been interconnected.

From the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a page on the Ahnenerbe
http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal.org/pages/t000/t00035.html

From FAIR/Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting
"Academic Racists Make Mainstream Inroads: From National Review to the New York Times" (by Steve Rendall 2005)
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2487

[bobthedrummer]

24. The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research and related US eugenics articles

Eugenics, ethnic cleansing, bio warfare targeting specific genotypes-a lot of things that were dismissed as paranoid conspiracy theories are issued as policy papers with vague titles from the CIA founded RW think tank The Manhattan Institute. Lots of pseudoscience true believers and their cults working there, imo.

Source Watch profile
Manhattan Institute for Policy Research
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Manhattan_Institute_for_Policy_Research

"Giuliani, the Manhattan Institute, and Eugenics: The Ugly Truth Behind 'Quality of Life'" by Robert Lederman (article from Konformist 3-29-2000)
http://www.konformist.com/2000/rudyg.htm

"The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics" by Edwin Black (reprinted San Francisco Chronicle article from History News Network 11-24-2003)
http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html

This topic needs to be discussed, this is the thread to do so.

[bobthedrummer]

26. Call out for more examples of pseudoscience that supports ethnic cleansing, eugenics, etc.

[panzerfaust]

27. Konrad Lorenz, the kindly old guy followed by geese

"I'm able to say that my whole scientific work is devoted to the ideas of the National Socialists."

[readmoreoften]

29. Operation Paperclip brought Nazi psychologists here. /nt

[readmoreoften]

30. Recommended. Let's hope they never find the 'gay gene' either. /nt

[bobthedrummer]

31. "Deadly Medicine: Creating the Master Race"

This is a page from the online United States Holocaust Memorial Museum that profiles some of the Nazis that continued careers and influence in health related service and policies after WWII.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/deadlymedicine/profiles/

Other Nazi criminal professionals, like Hubertus Strughold (NASA's Father of Space Medicine), practiced here in America after WWII.

[bobthedrummer]

32. Another Nobel Prize winner, Dr. William Bradford Shockley, (who

was a co-inventor of the transistor and is hailed as the Moses of Silicon Valley's computer and electronics industries) was also a US eugenicist that is cited by people like David Duke, neo-Nazis and others for his "work" on heredity.

I'm not going to profile Shockley in this post, he is another paradoxical shining example of pseudosciences brilliant minds (like James Watson).

They've won acclaims, Nobel awards and all that, they really have made contributions to the world in many disciplines and sciences-just like Nazis did.

Other professionals have denounced them. Below is an example from the Mathematics Department of the State University at Buffalo, NY.

"Pseudo-Science & Race"
http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/special/pseudoscience-race.html

Besides RW think tanks like The Manhattan Institute that support eugenics there are private foundations like The Pioneer Fund.

Here's The Pioneer Fund's official link
http://www.pioneerfund.org/

Compare that with another New Year's Day article that details The Pioneer Fund in the context of another topical subject-immigration--YET THIS WAS PUBLISHED AS A PRESS RELEASE BY FAIRNESS AND ACCURACY IN REPORTING/FAIR JANUARY 1, 1993.

"Questions About Source in Immigration Debate: Group Has Link to Racist Fund" (1-1-1993 FAIR press release)
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2501

There is quite a bit of history behind today's manifestations of a lot of the "policies" of the Decider's criminal administration.

Post your examples in this thread.

[bobthedrummer]

33. Calling out for more examples...

[AngryAmish]

34. Margaret Sanger's Negro Project

Predated the Nazis by a number of years. Or Oliver Wendel Holmes famous quote "Three generations of imbeciles is enough."

[dipsydoodle]

36. I wonder where they got the idea from ?

The first country to concertedly undertake compulsory sterilization programs for the purpose of eugenics was the United States. The principal targets of the American program were the mentally retarded and the mentally ill, but also targeted under many state laws were the deaf, the blind, people with epilepsy, and the physically deformed. Native Americans were sterilized against their will in many states, often without their knowledge, while they were in a hospital for other reasons (e.g. childbirth). Some sterilizations also took place in prisons and other penal institutions, targeting criminality, but they were in the relative minority. In the end, over 65,000 individuals were sterilized in 33 states under state compulsory sterilization programs in the United States.<1>

The first state to introduce compulsory sterilization legislation was Michigan, in 1897 but the law failed to garner enough votes by legislators to be adopted. Eight years later Pennsylvania's state legislators passed a sterilization bill that was vetoed by the governor. Indiana became the first state to enact sterilization legislation in 1907,<2> followed closely by Washington and California in 1909. Sterilization rates across the country were relatively low (California being the sole exception) until the 1927 Supreme Court case Buck v. Bell which legitimized the forced sterilization of patients at a Virginia home for the mentally retarded. The number of sterilizations performed per year increased until another Supreme Court case, Skinner v. Oklahoma, 1942, complicated the legal situation by ruling against sterilization of criminals if the equal protection clause of the constitution was violated. That is, if sterilization was to be performed, then it could not exempt white-collar criminals. <3>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#United_States

There's a clssic somewhere where some American halfwit in the 1903's worked out a program to eventually wipe most of population of a Central American Country - I'll have a root around to find the rascals name.

edit - found it :
There are a number of examples in post Civil War America of eugenic programs but none as effective and widespread as the mass female sterilization in Puerto Rico. Beginning in the years following WW I, a program was initiated by the United States government, the medical community and the local government of Puerto Rico, to name a few, which resulted in the unprecedented sterilization of 1/3 of the female population by 1965, and the continued use of sterilization on a broad scale by Puerto Rican women as a form of birth control.
http://clem.mscd.edu/~princer/ant440b/paper_04.htm

[dipsydoodle]

37. The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics

Hitler and his henchmen victimized an entire continent and exterminated millions in his quest for a co-called "Master Race."

But the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race didn't originate with Hitler. The idea was created in the United States, and cultivated in California, decades before Hitler came to power. California eugenicists played an important, although little known, role in the American eugenics movement's campaign for ethnic cleansing.

Suggest you all read this in its entirety : http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html

[bobthedrummer]

38. I linked to that Edwin Black article in post 24 edwardlindy

and I've read "War Against The Weak" as well as the literature of many related subjects.

Yet the conceptual roots of these hateful philosophies are thousands of years old-that's what influenced people like Charles Benedict Davenport and Heinrich Himmler.

When it comes to the powerful role of pseudoscience supporting the race policies in the Third Reich I again would suggest Max Weinreich's 1946 work "Hitler's Professors".

In this post another powerful support besides pseudoscience (yet intertwined with it) will be noted-the ancient belief systems of secret societies, cults and esoteric religions in giving identity as a member of a "superior" group and assigning a less than human designation to "enemies" of those outside the group.

The global war on terror involves all of those belief systems including many military/religious orders waging "jihad", "Holy War", "a Crusade", "clash of cultures" etc.

These military/religious orders are everywhere, including the Pentagon.

That the ideologies of these military/religious orders are very much with us today, particularly in our national security and defense organizations, has been commented on by people like Chris Hedges, Jeff Sharlet, William Arkin, Naomi Klein, Seymour Hersh and many others.

The private military contractors/mercenaries have been utilized to circumvent Constitutional and other legal prohibitions against theocracy by a criminal administration that has made statements that the Constitution is nothing more than "a god damn piece of paper".

These are essentially the same views that were present in late 19th and early 20th century Austria, Germany, Prussia-the only things that have changed are technology, the locations of extreme nationalism, militarism, and the identities of the "good" and the "evil"--because the entire conceptual framework of these systems are evil, and dependent on secrecy (literally the occult).

The pseudosciences and eugenics of those who are still powerfully influenced by ariosophy (wisdom of the Aryans-the spiritual fountain of the Third Reich) urgently needs to be addressed, because they have been expanded and adapted pragmatically.

That is what this thread is about, paradoxically, (because some DUers with spiritual and religious beliefs include many of these ancient conceptual foundations-which is a right of all to believe or disbelieve) there often is controversy and deletion of posts or locking of threads by demand of reactionaries.

That being said, below is a link that follows along the work of people like Oxford historian Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (authored "Black Sun: Aryan Cults, Esoteric Nazism and the Politics of Identity" NYU Press 2002), the aforementioned Edwin Black, Heather Pringle (authored "The Master Plan" Hyperion 2006, a work about the Ahnenerbe SS) and others.

"Secret Societies Influencing the Third Reich" (from shoaheducation.com)
http://www.shoaheducation.com/secret.html

Who else would like to discuss the military/religious order dimension of pseudoscience from the Third Reich to our Pentagon Prayer Team?

[bobthedrummer]

39. "Justifying Genocide: The Role of Professionals in Legitimizing Mass Killing"

remarks by Alex Alvarez at the History and Prevention of Genocide Symposium 2001 (from ideajournal.com)
http://www.ideajournal.com/articles.php?sup=10