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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:38 PM
Original message
Leader who opposes birth control, planned childlessness, to be nominated as Southern Baptist leader
I see someone who is a leader in the SBC hijacking is going to be nominated for leader of the Southern Baptist convention. I have written before about this fellow, and we surely need to be aware of him even more now that he is to be nominated to lead this large group.

Jeffries to nominate R. Albert Mohler for SBC president.

DALLAS—Southern Baptist Theological Seminary President R. Albert Mohler Jr. provides “the kind of visionary leader Southern Baptists need to communicate a missional conservatism and biblical clarity to the world,” stated Robert Jeffress, pastor of the historic First Baptist Church of Dallas in announcing his intention to nominate the 47-year-old Mohler for Southern Baptist Convention president in June.

When Southern Seminary seemed to be lost to liberalism and irrelevancy, Dr. Mohler put his life and ministry on the line for the truth of God’s word and the urgency of sharing Christ with a lost world,” Jeffress said. “Since that time, he has led Southern Seminary to be a boot camp for young men and women training to take the gospel to the nations—whatever the cost.”


Some of Mohler's most controversial views are regarding birth control and deliberate childlessness. Southern Baptists I knew growing up did not think like this.

Intentional childlessness is avoiding responsibility

Deliberately childless couples have formed a number of national and international organizations, including one called “No Kidding,” and they even have a lifestyle magazine named DINK, an acronym for “Double Income, No Kids.”

Mohler said the trend illustrates a faulty view of the purpose of marriage.

“You look at some of these websites, and the references to children are just so dismissive and condescending and frankly weird.... We have to understand that parenthood is to be understood as a part of marriage itself.”




I consider that a most narrow view of marriage and love.

More on this issue of
Deliberate childlessness

Southern Baptist leader says deliberate childlessness defies God's will.

"I am trying to look at this from a perspective that begins with God's creation," Mohler said. "God's purpose in creation is being trumped by modern practices."

"I would argue that it ought to be falling short of the glory of God. Deliberate childlessness defies God's will," he said.


That is upsetting to hear.

Even worse are Mohler's views on Christians and birth control.

"..."First, we must start with a rejection of the contraceptive mentality that sees pregnancy and children as impositions to be avoided rather than as gifts to be received, loved, and nurtured. This contraceptive mentality is an insidious attack upon God's glory in creation, and the Creator's gift of procreation to the married couple."


Reverend Mohler was on the Phil Donahue show on MSNBC in August 2002. He as much as said everyone was going to hell but Baptists.

Mohler on Donahue

Rev. Mohler, however intelligent of a scholar he may be, he is a spiritual Neanderthal with repulsive, revolting views," Boteach said. "... This is the modern equivalent of spiritual terrorism. You would think that we would have progressed to some sort of racial harmony and tolerance -- especially after Sept. 11."

Boteach later asserted that, "If Jesus were alive today I think he would take Rev. Mohler and Dr. Brown to court for character assassination. They took the Prince of Peace and made him into the torturer-in-chief."

Donahue took Mohler to task again, saying that he has made God into an "egomaniac" who tells people, "You better pray to me or I'll show you what trouble really is."


Mohler, though, responded by saying his views are founded in both the Old and New Testaments.

"God declared this to Moses in the covenant at Sinai," Mohler said. "He spoke very much about the fact that there was an order to have no gods before him. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of that law."

Donahue asserted that Mohler's views were arrogant, arguing that the Crusades began with similar beliefs.


Yes, they have taken the peaceful Jesus and turned him into something feared and fearful. They should be ashamed.

There was so much controversy over this next subject, I almost hate to post it. However if Al is now being considered for leader of the Southern Baptist Convention..having served his time at the seminary...then we need to realize what kind of ideas our country is facing. This is a large congregation of people who are not all on the same page.

But just having any in agreement on this topic is scary.

Is Your Baby Gay

Very upsetting are his views shown in a post at his blog called "Is Your Baby Gay? He later said he did not really say what he was said to have said, but here are the words from his blog.

7. Thus, we will gladly contend for the right to life of all persons, born and unborn, whatever their sexual orientation. We must fight against the idea of aborting fetuses or human embryos identified as homosexual in orientation.

8. If a biological basis is found, and if a prenatal test is then developed, and if a successful treatment to reverse the sexual orientation to heterosexual is ever developed, we would support its use as we should unapologetically support the use of any appropriate means to avoid sexual temptation and the inevitable effects of sin.


I hope Southern Baptists rise up and tell their leadership they are better than this, that they stand for so much more than this narrow minded thinking.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good luck with that. n/t
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. If only Southern Baptists are going to heaven
Then why doesn't he support contraception for everyone else? Why would he want to share the world's resources with a bunch of hellbound heathens? Unless he just gets off on the idea of people burning for eternity. :scared:
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. If only Southern Baptists are going to heaven....
I'd rather be where they are not.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Creator's gift of procreation to the married couple." I guess God loves dogs more, mine produced 12
puppies and I've heard of litters up to 20! At least he's not running for US President!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. yet
:scared:
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. At least he's not running for US President!
Yet
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. We should promote children as "gifts to be received, loved, and nurtured"
That has nothing to do with outlawing abortion and contraceptives, though.

It would sure be nice if these people, these SBC Republicans, would support economic policies that promoted strong, single-income middle-class families instead of stressed, dual-income, lower-class families.

They make the choice that the single-income middle-class family should be tossed on the altar of the free market, then try to fight the inevitable marriage breakdowns, poor child-rearing, and drug abuse with the Bible.

*sigh*
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. He has a blog? How does he type without opposable thumbs?
Must be hard to read past that brow ridge, too.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. First, he needs to start minding his own *&*#&@^% business!
If not, then I hope his "lambs" desert him and find a more down to earth, realistic leader.
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Tanuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. Jesus never married and didn't have kids.
I wonder what Weird Al Mohler has to say about that?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Well. . . not that any patriarchal religion is willing to admit to at any rate ----
However, looks like Mary Magdalene was his companion, wife -- and mother of his children.
And his intended successor as spiritual leader ---



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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. If Jesus appeared in today's America
...Al would demonize and persecute Him. He'd probably call him a "satanic enabler of the homm-uh-sexual agenda!"
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. My wife and I are "DINKS" and love being sinners. God hasn't sent us a subpoena yet.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's funny. Just don't tell Al Mohler.
:rofl:
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Why you evil, childless evildoers of evil.
:rofl:
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. We didn't have children by choice, either
The gentleman in question needs to stay out of our bedroom and our marriage, and work on his own.

Julie
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Hey be nice.
I'm sure Holy Al - like Mark Foley - absolutely LOVES children!

:evilgrin:
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Spiffarino, I like you already!
If some of these guys would think twice before their widely-broadcast stances (just say "no" to using the phrase "wide stance" -- don't gooooo there....) on crap that's none of their business, it would be a better world.

Luckily for us, they don't, and they offer hours of free entertainment as a result. :rofl:

Julie
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Oh YEAH??
Well I like you back.

:D
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. His obsession with married couples having children
is all about not enough white, christian babies being born. Mayday, Mayday! We're being out-birthed!

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yep, you may be right about that.
I know the Baptist church never used to emphasize things like that. Al Mohler is head of the seminary training the new Baptist preachers...wonder how many of them sell that to their congregations?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. That is the motive behind all fundamental religious opposition to birth control. They really intend
to "win" by having greater numbers.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
32. Well....
Donnie McClurkin and that lot preach this self same theology.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'd love to dump my kids on him so hubby and I could go to the movies
and have a nice dinner out more than twice a year. Seriously, we go out together at night only about twice a year. It's hard to get a proper babysitter for a disabled child.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. His self-righteous stuff just bowls me over.
I knew him before he was such a big shot (in his own mind)....nice guy. Not that pious.

I feel compelled to post about it because his views effect a whole seminar of young ministers.

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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. "Parenthood is to be understood as a part of marriage itself"
And yet when I proposed an initiative that would have declared exactly that as state law (Initiative 957), these very same people screamed about me making a mockery of marriage. Sheesh!
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pegleg Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. I would definitely say there is some Rev. Moon influence here.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:03 AM
Original message
Well I suppose when all of those little mouths need to food and
a roof over their heads...Mama and Papas jobs have been outsourced Mahler will take some of his Millions and feed them.

He..he...what am I saying....once the kids are out this medicine salesman won't give a damn..
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
25. Al proves once more that the SBC loves all the little children...
...from conception to birth.

After that, screw 'em.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Classic Ben Sargent cartoon.
From the 70s:

First frame: Politician with hand on poor pregnant woman's abdomen. Politician has other hand in the air, angrily pointing up.
Caption: SACRED UNBORN LIFE

Second frame: Politician standing next to poor non-pregnant mother and her poor toddler boy.
Politician pointing to dirty, barefoot, unkempt little boy.

Caption: SNIVELING LITTLE WELFARE CHEAT

===============

Classic right wing hypocrisy.

:evilgrin:
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. If you can find that cartoon
...I will send it to all my RW evangelical friends. They need a dose of (humorous) reality to overcome the staggering hypocrisy.

:D
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
23. Self Delete double post
Edited on Fri Jan-04-08 12:03 AM by MadMaddie
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
26. Huckabee has similar views, apparently. Southern Baptists had a big win in Iowa.
I did not think Huckabee would believe this, but this blog makes it sound like he does hold views similar to Mohler's.

http://www.bilerico.com/2007/12/huckabees_procreative_imperative.php

"Let's understand what sin means -- sin means missing the mark," he responded. "Missing the mark can mean missing the mark in any area. We've all missed the mark. ... How we miss the mark is less important than we all miss the mark. The mark is that we have marriage -- men and women, they marry, they create children, and they train their replacements and you have a future generation then that creates their replacements and trains them. That's the mark. If we didn't have that as the ideal, we wouldn't have a civilization that was able to perpetuate."

..."Huckabee: I don't think the issue's about being against gay marriage. It's about being for traditional marriage and articulating the reason that's important. You have to have a basic family structure. There's never been a civilization that has rewritten what marriage and family means and survived. So there is a sense in which, you know, it's one thing to say if people want to live a different way, that's their business. But when you want to redefine what family means or what marriage means, then that's an issue that should require some serious and significant debate in the public square."

Huckabee's big win shows that Southern Baptists are even strong in Iowa. Will be curious to see how this plays out.


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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Official Obama campign events
Have included people who are just like this, but their anti-gay message is all that gets heard. If this guy bugs you, then you must oppose McClurkin, who believes the same things. Obama says McClurkinites get a place at the table, he says they are good, decent and moral people. He promises that religionists like this will have a say in his administration.
It is not just about gays, when I complain about McClurkin. We are going to have religionists as part of making Obama's health plan. Think about that for a moment. Obama says that what religionist people believe must be respected, and our lives must be lead according to what these people think. That is why gay people can not be equal, you see. But no Fundi on Earth hates the gays and loves the hetrosexuals who live lives of sin you know.
Accecpt Obama with McClurkin intact and really, whining about some other church guy is a bit on the hypocritical side if you ask me. If it is alright to bring religion into the discussion of my life, why is it so upsetting when some other preacher talks about your life?
Anyone who opposes Moehler or Huckabee and stands with McClurkin and Obama needs to think long and hard about that choice.
I say do not hand Obama a dime or a vote unless he severs all ties with the Fundie and Dominionist movements. Or be ready for a health plan that costs hundreds a month, that you must buy, that is designed to not offend Obama's Fundi base. If you think these people will put up with paying for birth control, sex education, safe sex programs or abortion, you are not being honest.
A vote for Obama is a vote for McClurkin, as long as Obama stands with McClurkin. Obama won Iowa last night, so it is time to either make Obama dump his Fundies, or to stop complaining about other people' religionism. Our Party now has a religionist faction. Change that or get comfortable with it, but posts like this look pretty odd in a Party that embraces the likes of McClurkin and his theology. It is as if you are arguing about angels on the head of a pin. Just a difference of religious opinion. The Democratic side says gays are bad, the Republican says gays and some straights are bad. Guess it is wrong when it touchs the hetros? Double standard? Is Obama worth it? Praise the Lord and pass the health insurance! Just not for hiv, condoms, education, prevention. Be careful what and who you ask for. Know these people and know what they stand for. Vote McClurkin at your own risk.
When they come for the childless couples, we gay folk will be long gone and unable to help you. We will be in modern secular countires, with real health plans, and we will not really be moved to give a rip about those who finally got what they asked for. So Obama as he now stands is unacceptable to those who do not wish religion to dictate their lives. He must be made to stand for what is right, not allowd to stand for everything at once. If he stands with McClurkin, he does not stand with any Democrat on those issues. Don't vote without shaping the cadidate. If you like him but not Religionism, let Obama know that in no uncertain terms.
It is not just about gays. Think it is at your own risk. How many children does Donnie McClurkin think you women must bear to be alright with God? Why should what he thinks matter at all? Right now it matters, because Obama says it matters. Think about it.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Not just Huck.
Obama has been using Fundi evangelists as part of his campign. He also won last night. I guess Democrats are alright with the religionists as long as they preach mostly against the gays?
Much of what McClurkin and the rest of Obama's preachers teach is exactly like this. I've been trying to tell hetrosexuals that this theology is not simply opposed to 'gay marriage' or 'gay rights'. Last week someone called me a hysterical fag-that is a quote- when I said the Fundis want to force childless couples to have or adopt, and that they were against bith control. It was an Obama supporter who said it. Called me a liar, a 'chirst hater', a hysterical fag and then said 'Obama 2008- Hope and Unity' or some other slogan.
It is not just Huck. It is Obama too. If these issues are of any import to you, consider that fact. I think supporting Obama and criticizing other peole's religionism is hypocritical. If McClurkin is acceptable, so is Dobson or Mohler. If you don't agree, perhaps you would like to explain why you see McClurkin and Walker as different form Mohler or Robertson. I'd love to hear it!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
27. Finally Southern Baptists and Roman Catholics will be on the same page concerning birth control!
:party:
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
28. Breaking News: Nutjobs are nominating another nutjob to lead them
Film at 11.

In other news, water has been found in the Mississippi River, and marijuana has been found on Willie Nelson's tour bus.

Does any of this really surprise anyone?

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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
36. Unfortunately lack of birth control
means a lot more of these extremist types walking around (cringe) these days. Dominionists need to be stopped or they will unravel the Constitution, they want a theocracy and we cannot sleep through this one. They are organized, focused and obsessed with bringing on armaggeddon.
i would also like to see all religious leaders speak up against these extremists, and support separation of church and state!! Where are these leaders??
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