Jack Cafferty of CNN Just Called Obama, "Articulate" and "Pleasant"

[Yavin4]

IOW, Obama is not mean and angry like you see in Rap videos.

My goodness.

[WinkyDink]

1. Well, heck, let's elect him President, then!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

65. Yes, let's.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

161. more and more I am convinced.

now that my guy withdrew. (NO, not tancredo)

[Teaser]

2. so goddamn embarassing

why does this media still exist? haven't we supplanted it yet?

[earthside]

10. So African-Americans Cannot be 'Articulate'?

Being 'articulate' is a positive description for any person -- Obama IS articulate.

So, what is the big deal.

I don't think Cafferty has anything to be embarrassed about in his choice of adjectives for Mr. Obama.

[Teaser]

11. code words, binky, code words

.

[earthside]

19. How about 'well-spoken'?

Obama is 'well-spoken'.

Is that a code term, too?

Sheeesh.

Never mind. I'll say it anyway and I will say it repeatedly: Barack Obama is articulate. He is smart. He is positive and progressive. He is well-spoken. He is a breath of fresh air.

[shanti]

30. yes, it is a code word!

:eyes:

[Chovexani]

60. ...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070205/ai_n17198751

[SusanaMontana41]

84. Thanks for the link

I love Eugene Robinson and am happy to see him more often on MSNBC.

[EFerrari]

165. See my #163. n/t

[Fleshdancer]

12. White candidates are not called articulate

let's be honest about this.

[LiberalHeart]

17. Okay, yes, let's be honest. Do you recall Cuomo?

He did what Obama did -- gave a great speech at a Dem convention that got people's attention and people called him articulate. That speech started widespread chatter about his possible run for the presidency. People need to get over their delight in making everything about race and just let articulate people be called what they are.

[Fleshdancer]

26. to be honest, I don't recall Cuomo's speech....

but to my credit, that was 24 years ago and I was 6 yrs old at the time. :)

[Chovexani]

61. ...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070205/ai_n17198751

[LiberalHeart]

86. Total BS...

I know exactly what I mean when I say someone's articulate. It's a compliment and race has nothing to do with it. I appreciate language skills and long for the days when words still meant what they mean and not what someone with an agenda reinterprets them to mean.

[Chovexani]

113. Hi Sally (or Johnny!)

http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com

(PS: You don't get to decide how black people feel about words. :()

[unapatriciated]

135. Now that's funny

too bad it is so often true.

[madeline_con]

137. Thank you!

At the risk of having my own feet held to the flames, I will agree! :hi:

[Arkana]

31. The current guy certainly never was called articulate.

[greyl]

41. "John Edwards was articulate, personable, and demonstrated why he is the best cand..."

There are more examples, of course.

"Reviews Pile On: Edwards Most Effective and Articulate Challenger to..."
"Hillary was articulate and at times, passionate..."
"What is clear is that Hillary is articulate..."

[Chovexani]

62. ...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070205/ai_n17198751

[eShirl]

43. only because they are not as articulate as Obama

let's be honest about this.

[nonconformist]

49. I remember Bill Clinton being referred to as "articulate" numerous times during his campaign

[eShirl]

53. and Obama's gift of oratory is oft compared to JFK / RFK / MLK

skipping right over B. Clinton

[0007]

102. ......and he doesn't have an ear piercing shill type of laughter

or bugged out eyes.

Excruciating indeed!!

[Chovexani]

63. ...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070205/ai_n17198751

[dmallind]

77. If you keep posting that non-response

at least be honest and tell people it refers to a specific instance in which race was also a context. Simply calling a man who is both articulate and black "articulate" is not in any sense code to anyone not wearing a tinfoil hat.

[Chovexani]

78. Hiya, Johnny! See, that article, uh, articulates

The issue black people have with "articulate".

If it's too hard for you to understand, Johnny, try this site: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com

PS: Say hi to Sally for me! :hi:

[Zodiak]

126. That website is funny

Eye-opening, but funny.

[eShirl]

94. close your eyes, forget the color of Obama's skin, and LISTEN

is he not an unusually articulate candidate?
the most articulate in years, if not decades?
yet there are people here who would have us ignore perhaps his greatest strength, a vital one for a politician to have

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

98. I'm guessing that since Bush took power......

....anyone who doesn't drool into the mike and babble like a child has set the bar, but you are correct that Obama is the most powerful speaker I've heard in a long time.

[orleans]

57. obama sounds classy (eloquent) when he talks (edwards does not)

obama has a more pleasant tone or resonance to his voice than hillary or kucinich

he annunciates far better than richardson & edwards

mike gravel sounded like shit all the way around

imo

and they bring up his voice/speech in the same positive way that people talked about bill clinton as being a rhodes scholar

i think when people say "articulate" they are actually thinking about several different qualities. let's face it, hillary sounds articulate also. bush NEVER did. even edwards--and i like edwards enough--doesn't sound "articulate" to me (probably due to the southern accent)

obama also does this minor hesitation thing when he speaks (i read somewhere it had something to do with overcoming a stutter--don't know if that is accurate or not) but the pauses make him seem more thoughtful about what he is saying. (ghoulani's speech impediment sounds like what it is)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eloquent

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cadences

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/articulate

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/resonance

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tone

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/diction

he has a voice and speech pattern that could do voice-overs, narrations, etc that is easy for people to listen to. compare and contrast
(obama's voice is a voice people like to actually hear-- but how to put that into words? we're so inarticulate we can't find the proper word for it!)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2008/01/04/VI2008010400014.html?hpid=topnews

(i wouldn't go so far as to put him in the same category of orson wells or james earl jones--but he's certainly the candidate who comes the closest to fitting in that category)

[Fleshdancer]

68. OK FINE. you win.

the words have never been used to insult minority leaders in the past, it can't possibly be used to describe minority leaders in the future and although all Democratic candidates are by definition "articulate", it certainly would never be used as a passive aggressive description of the the minority winner of the Iowa caucus. Mea f***ing Culpa after the past 7 years. Perhaps the media has changed over night. I'm sure Cafferty has described Obama as "articulate" several times throughout the year. Right? I can trust CNN and the talking heads now, no?


:eyes:



nutty primary disclaimer: I could care less who wins the primary.

[Raine]

80. Hillary was just called "ARTICULATE"

on CNN by someone from politico.com

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

104. See, CNN IS racist

They are just using the same adjective to describe a winner like Obama and a loser like Hilary. Shame on them!!! :sarcasm:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

106. Yes they are.....

Already a dozen times today. Both Democrats and Pugs.

Why? Because the people who write the news are fucking lazy and needed a goddamn thesarus for Christmas. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

[mondo joe]

145. Okay, LET'S BE HONEST: White candidates ARE called articulate. Try Google.

"John Edwards was articulate, personable, and demonstrated why he is the best candidate who has a chance of getting the Democratic nomination for president" http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2007/10/john_edwards_bi_1.html

"One composite I heard was Clark (international/military), Dean (fire and intensity), and Edwards (articulate and smooth). But I think this one is leaning toward Edwards." http://www.nhpr.org/blog/615

"Howard Dean Articulate & Outspoken on 'Meet the Press'" http://usliberals.about.com/b/2005/05/22/howard-dean-articulate-outspoken-on-meet-the-press.htm

"Cuomo is intelligent and articulate and experienced." http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-18-kennedy-usat_x.htm

[Quantess]

47. You don't get it, do you?

Jack Cafferty apparently thinks it's remarkable that Obama is articulate and pleasant. That it bears mentioning.

[gmudem]

127. Would you prefer he call him inarticulate and unpleasant?

Obama's speaking ability is one of his better qualities. How shocking it is that the media would mention that.

[Quantess]

128. Well, you do have a point.

Especially when you compare him to Bush.

However, "articulate" also refers to speech that is crisp, clear, and easy to understand. Black American dialect has a reputation, among speakers of the standard dialect (such as white speakers) for being not as crisp, not as clear, and not as easy to understand. Maybe the pundits should just cut to the chase and say Obama sounds white!

[NOLALady]

131. You still would have to wonder

what would anyone expect from a child who was raised in a white household. Obviously, he would use his Mother's dialect.

[Quantess]

134. I'm not saying it is an insult to call anyone articulate, no matter what their dialect is

I should hope not, since I was a speech-pathologist for a few years. I love good articulation.

My point is, Obama is a black man who sounds white, and people acknowledge that by calling him articulate.

Edit to add... Having good articulation, to speech pathologists, is different than being an eloquent speaker 'articulate'.

And a completely different use of the word articulate, when used by pundits describing a black speaker, is code for sounding white. There is nothing wrong with sounding white, or sounding black, it's more of a comment on American society in general.

[mondo joe]

147. No one EXPECTS anyone to be articulate. That's why it's considered praise.

It's not the norm.

[NOLALady]

56. Any other candidates referred to as articulate?

[Raine]

81. Hillary

was, I heard it myself on CNN.

[treestar]

138. Exactly! It requires low self esteem to consider this an insult

Anybody articulate is a plus in this society. Please reference Chimpy. Chimpy is inarticulate.

Saying it means "for a black person" is to buy right into the racist view. I will never get this, how AAs can have such low self esteem that they allow whitey to "insult" them by using a positive phrase! It makes no sense! If we have an articulate President BLACK OR WHITE, that will be an improvement on what we have now!!! If we have an AA President, we are making progress, for crying out loud! Any positive thing that can be said about our candidate is a good thing! Call the repuke (probably a white man) INARTICULATE as he probably is and give up this poor-me-victim thinking.

We have a winner here. Don't mess with his chances by insulting the average white idiot! When he or she says Obama is well spoken, they might actually mean it.

[Quantess]

151. well, it isn't an insult, you are correct.

but it is a white speaker's way of saying that a black speaker sounds white. And that is an indirect insult to black speakers who use black dialect.

[mondo joe]

152. Do you really believe that's the only thing it can mean?

What does it mean when a white speaker is described as articulate?

[Quantess]

154. You are speaking to a former speech-pathologist. What do you think?

May I please refer you to my posts 47, 128, 134

[mondo joe]

155. I don't know what you think - it's why I'm asking. What do you think is meant when

John Edwards, or Mario Cuomo, or John Kennedy or Howard Dean is called articulate?

[Quantess]

156. Generally, when white speakers are called articulate. it means they are eloquent speakers.

Generally, when a black speaker is called articulate, it means that he/she sounds white.

Think about what articulate speech means to you. Confusingly, the average person does not differentiate between the speech-articulation part, and the language part. Probably partly because the word 'articulation' encompasses both.

BTW, I'm a white woman. My DU name was inspired by a student named Quantess, an amazing black girl with a cool name, LOL.

[bobbolink]

162. Tell ya what...... try walking in the shoes of those of us on the bottom rung for a while,

THEN you'll "get it".

Until then, how 'bout learning to listen to folks, rather than judging and criticising, eh?

We got how superior you are.

We GOT it.

[DS1]

3. What about 'clean' ?

:hide:

[eShirl]

93. some have been referred to as playing dirty

as in dirty tricks

[Quantess]

158. you mean gentile.

Obama isn't Jewish.

[shawmut]

4. I just saw that

made me cringe.

[MidwestTransplant]

5. I think he meant in terms of him being young (relative to Cafferty) as in

an articulate, pleasant young man.

[Faygo Kid]

6. Can't say either about Bush

That's for damn sure.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. "he's one of the good ones?"

[democrat in Tallahassee]

8. Well, he is. I don't find that offensive at all. Better than calling

someone angry,which is what the repugs always try to call our candidates.

[LiberalHeart]

13. Yes, he is, but apparently the PC police have removed more words from the lexicon...

Don't use them, lest you be called a racist. We all know how insulting it is to be called articulate, right? I'm so sick of this crap.

[napi21]

24. YES! Angry is what all the talking heads called Edwards for the

last several days.

[gratuitous]

9. I just need to know if Obama is a credit to his race

You know, some of my best friends {remainder of sentence lost in hail of brickbats}

[Sugar Smack]

14. OMG

:spray:

[jgraz]

15. Dammit, he IS articulate.

Not "articulate for a black dude", but just plain articulate. He's one of the most well-spoken politicians I've ever seen.

[shanti]

32. and??

:eyes:

[jgraz]

38. Having some reading comprehension issues?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

99. Apparently we have to invent a new word so as not to offend

Possibly "truculent" or "loquacious" might work.

[Yavin4]

16. It's Offensive Because It Assumes That Black People Are Neither Articulate nor Pleasant

Thus, the terms "articulate" and "pleasant" are condescending.

[LiberalHeart]

18. No, it doesn't assume that.

[Orsino]

120. No, it doesn't assume that...

...but the word is a hot-button, and will remain one for decades, perhaps. Obama is the most articulate of the candidates IMO, but it'll offend many people to point this out--especially when it keeps coming up as the first thing said about him.

I guess Jack is too cool to use a word like "inspiring," and therefore can't help sounding condescending.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yavin4]

25. Closing Your Eyes To Bigotry

Does not make it go away. As an African American who has been in leadership positions, I can detect subtle racism when I see it.

And if you're not ready to challenge it and call it out when you see it, then you cannot make any real changes in this country.

[LiberalHeart]

27. Do you see the subtle racism in what you're saying?

[Yavin4]

33. Huh?

Please explain

[Chovexani]

67. Here ya go

Black people pointing out when something is offensive to black people = racist

Black people taking issue with any comment a white person says about race = racist

Black people bringing up the history and context of certain words = racist

Black people talking about race at all = racist

Black people saying the word race in Pig Latin = racist

Black people breathing on a white message board = racist

Hope that helps. :hi:

[Karenina]

136. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[karlrschneider]

28. Like the pea in the Princess's bed no doubt

:eyes:

[Karenina]

139. Oh the primacy!!!

WHAT will we tell the children?

[LiberalHeart]

35. You said...

...and I quote:

"As an African American who has been in leadership positions, I can detect subtle racism when I see it."

Is a white person who has not held those positions incapable of detecting subtle racism?

(Oops, this was in response to Huh, not the post it's hooked to.)

[Yavin4]

36. Where Did I Ever Say That A White Person Could Not Detect Subtle Racism?

I spoke from my own personal experience.

[LiberalHeart]

37. I guess you don't see the subtle impression your words create.

[EFerrari]

54. That seems to be your projection. There was no racism in Yavin's

statement.

The poster was reporting their experience simply and directly.

[LiberalHeart]

90. You're totally missing the point....

Yavin mentions his/her race for a reason: to strengthen his/her argument that s/he can pick up on signs of subtle racism. The comparison is to whites, whether it's stated or not -- otherwise, the poster's race would not have been raised. The message is "Listen to me, ye whites, because I have special powers of detection that you don't have ... it's my experience, an experience you haven't had, so you can't even argue with it." That's the perfect example of subtle (or not so subtle) racism -- the very thing that Yavin is accusing others of. When someone defending the use of the word articulate is accused of closing his/her eyes to bigotry without there being any evidence that person is doing so as opposed to simply believing that Obama is articulate, that's bigotry. And it's the kind of bigotry people have trouble identifying in themselves, perhaps because they're too busy looking for it in others.

[NashVegas]

95. So Sorry You Don't Get It

It'd be like me saying, "look I'm a female who's been in leadership positions, and the glass ceiling DOES exist," and being accused of sexism for having said it.

I don't know about "pleasant," but using the word "articulate" to describe a fully grown adult is indeed indicative of condescension.

Inarticulate is a word reserved for people who do not / cannot communicate.

[jmg257]

96. I would have to go with Liberal on this one - was a great observation.

I have heard/used the term "articulate" to describe someone explaining themselves well, as in "be able to articulate why you did what you did".

MAYBE Cafferty was saying Obama explains himself well, which is NOT a race-based comparison, but a keen observation.

[NashVegas]

97. More ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=258&topic_id=4084&mesg_id=4084

From someone who said it much better than I:

It is a foregone conclusion in this country to too many whites that a black person who is articulate and well spoken is the exception and not the rule for African Americans. "Why", you ask? Because up until around 1863 it used to be AGAINST THE LAW to teach a black person to read. Illegal. 'Thrown in jail and ostracized from society, in danger of having your house burnt to the ground with you and your wife and babies in it--and no witnesses' illegal. Vigilantes would round up their "good ol' boys" to intimidate you (because none of them ever had the balls to do it by themselves.) The laws were drawn up in order to keep the slaves ignorant so that they could not counter the oppressive laws of the country with knowledge and flinging the truth of that knowledge back into the teeth of the oppressors. That was being uppity and an uppity negro would soon find themselves swinging dead from the nearest tree.

....
When a white person says that a black person is articulate, it is not meant as a compliment, as the white person believes it is. He may have thought that he was extending a compliment, but it is a backhanded compliment. It is meant that they didn't expect for the black person to be equal in expression as they know themselves to be and take for granted they are; they didn't expect to be taken aback and bested (and rendered intimidated) by the black person's intellect--surprised by something about which they should not be surprised in the first place.

[LiberalHeart]

103. That's just nonsense.

The author does not speak for me when s/he says what a white person believes when calling a black person articulate. I call Obama that because he is. I've also called white people articulate. How do we explain what was in my heart then? Was I just stating the obvious because we do expect white people to be articulate? Or was I exhibiting a bias against the white people who are not articulate? Or was I, maybe, just using a word that is part of my vocabulary and which was properly applied given the facts about the speaker's eloquence? It's racist to view white people as incapable of saying what they mean rather than what certain people with knee-jerk reactions would like you to believe they mean. Suppose I'd been blind, heard Obama speak, and then declared him articulate. Would my having not seen his skin mean that I was not being racist when calling him that, but because I saw him as he spoke, I am a racist? Would it be better to just ignore the elephant in the room -- i.e. that Obama is a great orator -- rather than risk making a comment that someone with an odd view of a perfectly fine word might twist into something it is not?

[EFerrari]

160. A keen observation? How "keen" do you have to be to observe

that Obama is a brilliant person? Anyone who doesn't see it needs glasses.

Good god.

[LiberalHeart]

109. Yes, it would be like that...

And that would be like saying men, due to their gender, cannot know that a glass ceiling exists. Is it sexist to assume that about men? Yes.

What does being articulate have to do with whether a person is fully grown? Do you think the word articulate, when applied to a public speaker, simply means that person is able to utter words? In the context of public speaking, it means the speaker has gotten his or her ideas/message across with eloquence and/or clarity. For Obama, it's both clarity and eloquence. Thus, it is my non-racist view that he is articulate.

[NashVegas]

110. So Far Off My Point

Which was that it was not racist of Yavin to list his experience in encountering subtle racism.

"And that would be like saying men, due to their gender, cannot know that a glass ceiling exists. "

No, that's just ignorance. Possibly based in sexism, but ignorant nonetheless. As would be the inability to distinguish between articulation and eloquence, and why African Americans tend to get a bit antsy when someone calls them "articulate." Subtle, institutional, racial condescension.

[LiberalHeart]

129. Not off the point at all.

You're the one who created the glass ceiling example in the context of Yavin's post. I responded in that context. The subject was the relevance of mentioning one's experience as a way of claiming to have the inside scoop that an outsider can't have -- a notion that's just plain silly. Now you waltz ignorance into the picture as if it had anything to do with what we were discussing and claim that's what my example was about. It wasn't.

I agree that some people have trouble with words. Some, for example, seem to think that articulate means being able to form a word. They really should read all the definitions for articulate, don't you think? Maybe then they wouldn't get their panties in a wad when someone says a black man is articulate.

This all reminds me of the poor fellow who ended up resigning his job after the racism police went nuts when he used the word niggardly. What the word actually meant was totally beside the point to those who wanted to make him a poster boy (and, yes, the term really is boy) for racism. It's a crazy world.

[EFerrari]

163. This actually happened to me on my first day in a new job.

One of my co-workers heard me speaking Spanish to a customer whose English was limited.

My co-worker looked completely betrayed, looked me up and down (I'm not obviously Latina) and said in the most artless way in a hurt voice, "But, you're so WELL SPOKEN".

[EFerrari]

125. No, I'm not missing the point.

[nonconformist]

51. So then, any compliment would be considered "condescending"?

That doesn't make sense. So if someone said that Obama was a "really decent guy", are you to then assume that it's condescending, because it assumes that black people aren't usually decent guys?

I mean, get real. Where does it end?

[EFerrari]

55. Hopefully it results in our being able to have this conversation

which we don't know how to have right now.

[Chovexani]

70. ...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070205/ai_n17198751

PS: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com

[Raine]

71. That's what I'm wondering too

apparently ANY nice words about Obama can come off as condescending or racist. Seriously is there anything nice that one can say about him and not get in trouble for? :shrug:

[gmudem]

52. That's not true at all

Jeez people are being way too paranoid/pc about this. He's complimenting the guy relax. Obama absolutely is articulate, I've even been an audience member at a speech he gave, he's a very articulate person. People who think that is racist are just making something out of nothing.

Cafferty's a good guy. There's been plenty of times on CNN where he absolutely lambasts Bush and Republicans and I think people accusing him of being racist are just plain wrong.

[mondo joe]

142. No. You THINK that's what is assumed. But it's used to describe whites as well.

It COULD be used as you describe - or it might not.

[karlrschneider]

20. How dare he compliment the senator!!11!1!1!!!

He must be some kind of bigot.
:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

21. Our president is angry and inarticulate. nt

[Subdivisions]

22. Oh STOP it! I mean it. Jeez! I've heard Cafferty use the word

"articulate" to describe any number of people over the years. It's an endearing quality to him and where he sees it he says so.

[jgraz]

39. Maybe we need a list of banned compliments organized by race

Just want to make sure the delicate souls aren't offended.

[Chovexani]

64. ...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20070205/ai_n17198751

[shanti]

29. articulate and pleasant

as opposed to - what??? did he say that edwards, hill, etc. were articulate and pleasant?

ok, gotcha :eyes:

[TheWebHead]

34. i feel for some of these analysts

I think biden when he suggested it's a good story because of his race and that those attributes were the first time being shown by a black presidential candidate, it was controversial... I think if you call obama a nice guy and articulate, he is, just don't suggest these qualities are something unusual for a non white candidate.

[western mass]

40. Obama's great strength...

is that he can get a message across simply and powerfully, using words.

His speechifying is uncommonly memorable, persuasive, and easy to grasp by the average person.

He is arguably more verbally charismatic than any other candidate in the field, republican or democrat (and Clinton and Edwards are no slouches). This is what many people find so exciting about him - it's a quality shared with other great politicians like Clinton and JFK.

So please, if people are not allowed to talk about this quality of Obama using the word "articulate", somebody supply a list of acceptable adjectives that are allowed. "Charismatic" doesn't quite do the job, because it doesn't specifically refer to the use of language.

Yes, we all know about racists using code words. For everybody else who wants to talk about this exceptional quality that Obama possesses, again, somebody please supply the list of politically approved adjectives.

[eShirl]

44. exactly

thank you

[greyl]

42. Let's not make accurate compliments to Obama verboten. nt

[Swamp Rat]

45. And Bushler is an inarticulate inbred 'moran'

Who did you vote for, Jack Cafferty?

:eyes:

[killbotfactory]

46. Maybe he meant that he's not a bumbling dufus, like Bush

[eShirl]

48. he meant "for a presidential candidate"

[OzarkDem]

50. Of course, CNN really wants a Dem president

not.

Expect to see the media continue to fawn over Obama or Hillary if she stages a comeback. They want to set the stage for GOP victory in the fall.

[CarbonDate]

72. Yawn.

Is this what Edwards supporters are reduced to? "A woman or a black man can't win"?

[OzarkDem]

83. On the contrary

The big money folks who control the media want a Dem to win who will meet their every demand, grant their every wish. Edwards is not that person, but Clinton and Obama are.

Why else do you think Obama and Clinton have raised so much money?

Its your choice, if you want more of the same vote for them. If you want change, vote for Edwards.

(As for the racism/sexism remark, I'm going to do you a favor and pretend I didn't notice.)

[Chovexani]

58. Oh, lord.

I think I need to commune with my spiritual advisor, Rev. Daniels, for a while.

[autorank]

59. I call him a friend of Lieberman;)

[VOX]

66. Suprised Cafferty didn't say "He's a credit to his own race."

Sometimes ya gotta just shake your head and ask, What century is this????? :wtf:

[Occam Bandage]

69. He is. He is extraordinarily articulate. He is perhaps

the most articulate politician in a generation.

[Tactical Progressive]

73. I don't think Obama is articulate

He reads telepromptered speeches like a preacher is all.

When he's not reading off of a teleprompter he speaks haltingly as he tries to recall scripts from his talking points.

When he's ad-libbing he stumbles and bumbles along.


Our current President gives really good telepromptered speeches. I don't think anyone here would grace his speaking style with an adjective like 'articulate' given how he speaks when he's not reading the words.

[Raine]

74. As opposed to inarticulate & unpleasant

what an insult. :eyes:

[ima_sinnic]

75. well, let's not compliment Obama at all, then, for fear of antagonizing

those who insist on reading "racist" into everything.

This bullshit pisses me off no end. The guy IS articulate. So sue me already. Being articulate is a good quality in a president.

Or would you rather we have an inarticulate moronic asshole like jr. shit-stain?

[johnaries]

76. Wait, I'm trying to remember, who was the Dem candidate that the MSM

villified as a racist because he called an African-American "articulate"?

I'm sorry, but there are so many people out there who somehow make it on TV that are inarticulate, well, calling someone "ariculate" shouldn't be a compliment or an insult. But from I have seen and heard, calling anyone who has spoken in publice recently "articulate" is giving them a huge compliment - no matter what race or sex they are.

[Raine]

79. Biden nt

[bklyncowgirl]

82. So, isn't he? Always strikes me as a smart, likeable guy on TV.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[DemGa]

85. Oh noes, he called him the "A" word

and followed with a "P" no less.

Subtle, covert, insidious! I'm appalled!

[LostinVA]

87. Oh the irony -- it hurts

[npincus]

88. And Shrubby is "inarticulate".... aren't we getting a bit PC here?

The Big Dawg said Huckabee was the only Republican candidate who knew how to speak and tell a joke... had he said that about Obama, would that be considered offensive? C'mon.

[geardaddy]

89. Owch...

Ugh, that shit makes my colon tight.

[SidDithers]

91. I wish that I was as articulate as Obama...

at least, I think I do.

Sid

[iamthebandfanman]

92. duh, dontcha know the media has already labled edwards the "angry" one ? n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

100. Finally. Some Accuracy In The Media.

After all, Obama is articulant and pleasant.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

101. Or it could be.....

....the media thinks Edwards sounds like a hick and Hillary is a witch. I mean, I'm sure they do.

I want to know what word should be used to describe how good a speaker Obama is. Please come up with one, because he's the best political speaker in the world right now, and he deserves to be praised for it rather than people arguing about semantics and syntax of the most common word used to describe a well-spoken person.

[LanternWaste]

105. I didn't know it was an insult.

I didn't know it was an insult. I'll make it a point never to call anyone 'articulate' or 'pleasant' anymore...

[TCJ70]

121. Only if they're a minority...apparently n/t

[salin]

107. Wow....

not to the Cafferty statememnt - I think that shows how the quiet, latent racism that I honestly think some folks are unaware of residing in themselves does sometimes slip out. But at this thread.

I can't figure out whether some folks are being intentionally obtuse - or are really that unable to try to understand what that (and similar) phrase, when trotted out, means and why folks are quick to take offense. Wow. I mean I am surprised - but not really surprised.

[Binka]

111. I'm Disgusted

This was such an OBVIOUS BLATANT racial slur I am appalled that there is even one person on DU who does not GET this. I'm glad I rarely read DU anymore. Disgusting.

[salin]

112. That is our loss

that you aren't around very much anymore. :hug:

Its bad enough that Cafferty said it on air (hard to even give him "gaffe" cover given the coverage of the Biden comment earlier this year), but then to have folks not only go into excuse and deny - but then turn around and play "victim" of those who point out the offense.

Bah!

[Binka]

114. You've Always Been A Fav Of Mine

:hug: back at cha!

It is completely baffling the sheer lack of understanding on this issue, and the very way words are used to manipulate and coerce people into blindness. This is a huge reason why I do not watch TV or go to mainstream movies. I can not bear to be MANIPULATED AND DEMEANED in front of my very eyes.

[Karenina]

141. BINKERS!!!!

:hug::loveya::hug:

[NOLALady]

132. My guess

many folks are unable to understand. That's sad.

[Karenina]

150. They don't give a shit and see NO NEED to understand.

Rather than LISTEN and empathize with us, the contexts that have been explained over and over as we bare the scars racism has inflicted, they spit dictionary definitions in our faces and defend their "right" to ignore our pain to the death.

See: Iraq, Haiti, NOLA...

[salin]

159. Bingo!

There is an intentional obstinance to *not* hear the explanations, and to not be inconvenienced - therefor - claim foul for being inconvenienced to have to think about the words they use rather than avoid sending out offenses because those offenses "aren't intended" (though as I read from many, it is clear they now know the offense and don't care - making it questionable that the "offenses aren't intended")

[alfredo]

108. You must also consider the audience. There's many white Americans

who have never associated with an African American. All they see of African Americans is what is on TV, and what is on TV is not reality. Their other source for info on African Americans is from hate radio or TV sports. Cafferty could be saying that Obama is not the stereotyped African American. I didn't see the spot, so I can't say if it was an ignorant statement or not.


I had a friend who took off on a solo cross country trip. He ended up in some out back town in Maine. Because he was black, he became sort of a novelty, many had never seen a black person in real life. It blew him away. He was interviewed on local radio and the weekly newspaper did a spot on him. He was a member of a street theater group, so he knew how to hold an audience.

I've been in a situation where I was surrounded by people who rarely see white people. Some of the younger people had their first encounter with a white and wanted to feel my skin and hair.
There was no prejudice, only curiosity.

[Chovexani]

116. It's ignorant, period.

I'm not sure how many more black people can stand up and say, "hey, this is not a compliment, this is hurtful and offensive." I'm not sure how many times we can say this before you listen to us. I'm not sure how anyone with a sense of empathy and a set of functioning brain cells can construe "he's not like other black people" into anything but the hateful slur it is.

Unlike a lot of you, I remember Jack Cafferty when he was local to NYC (on WNYW--the Fox station!) and he was just as racist then. He has no excuse, he should know better. The fact that white DUers have shown up in droves to defend this garbage--even AFTER black folks have stood up to say HEY WAIT IN THE WHAT NOW?--particularly after we did this same tango when Biden had diarrhea of the mouth and spewed this BS back in February, shows that y'all are just as racist as the Freepers. You're not carrying the proverbial backpack, you've got an Amazing Race pack and fourteen carry-ons and you don't understand why we are telling you to check some of that shit if you want to get on the plane.

Oh gods fuck this noise, I'm out. Have at it.

[alfredo]

123. I did mention that I didn't see the remark or context. I also didn't know

his intent. If he was trying to dispel a stereotype, by saying he is not a gang banger or ridiculous characterization we see in popular culture, then he'd get a pass from me. But if he was not, then he needs to be taken down a notch or two.

I don't know the guy's history or his heart.

[Karenina]

149. That word makes me cringe.

I was so often described as such and assaulted on psychic and psychological levels by the non-verbal cues that accompanied it. We explain it over and over again and the knapsack carriers ignore, dismiss and argue with us because THEIR interpretation is: WHITE IS RIGHT. Perhaps they would find nothing amiss with lighting a firecracker near a vet who has already told them s/he's sensitive to noise. "Don't be SILLY! It's JUST a firecracker!"

[gmudem]

157. So now WE'RE racists??

Talk about an overreaction. I can't even think of what to post right now because I feel like the fuse in my brain is about to blow. I'm sorry but this just doesn't make any sense to me. Cafferty was COMPLIMENTING Obama. It's a COMPLIMENT. You really think calling somebody ARTICULATE is a "hateful slur." I'm sure there are plenty of actual hateful slurs and articulate is not on that list.

And it's not as if I'm some person who has no interaction with black people in my life, I'm from a very diverse area and go to one of the most diverse campuses in the U.S. Obama even gave a speech at my campus earlier this year. I have a hard time seeing how anybody could seriously think articulate is some kind of "hateful slur."

[EFerrari]

168. Context. And that so many people show up to defend this

says more about how we avoid or deny the issue than anything else. :shrug:

[Love Bug]

115. Geeze-louise, what's next? "He's not uppity"?

More code words for the racists among us.

[NOLALady]

133. He's not like the rest of them

is next, I guess.

[xultar]

117. RACISM.

[Ignis]

118. Next, they'll be surprised he didn't order the "M-Fing Iced Tea!"

:eyes:

[TCJ70]

119. What a nice thing to say, I hope...

...I can be called articulate someday. Most times I clam up during public speaking.

Why not let a compliment be a compliment? If Obama expresses his annoyance (as the comment WAS about him) then I think there can be cause for a little outrage.

[Lance_Boyle]

122. Paging Dr. Freud, for jibbity crispy's sake

"Sometimes a compliment is just a compliment."

[KamaAina]

124. I'll bet he uses a knife and fork when he goes to Sylvia's, too

Let's ask Bill-O. Anyone got his direct line?

[Rex]

130. Oh my! He speaks so well!

Such good manners. :eyes:

[tabasco]

140. Smells good too!

Let's make him President!

[DRoseDARs]

143. Oh gawd, not this again. n/t

[DRoseDARs]

144. deletified

Erm, 'kay.

[unapatriciated]

146. coming from Cafferty it is not a compliment

There are so many different adjectives he could have used to describe him.Clean and Articulate (in most cases)are used when it is not the norm. As if that is all he brings to the table. I'm surprised that women on this board don't get it, we have been getting similar comments for years.

[EFerrari]

174. No. It's no fucking compliment. Obama is not "articulate".

He's several pay grades above "articulate".

I'm amazed that some posters can't see that.

"Articulate" means you can manage to speak.

Hello? McFly?!

[ima_sinnic]

177. you don't even know the definition of "articulate"

somehow, to you, "articulate" is a slur, an insult.
One meaning, most apropos to Obama, is "expressing oneself effectively." It also means "using the best, most appropriate words, eloquent."
HOW HORRIBLE!! HOW UNPRESIDENTIAL!

[EFerrari]

178. Try again. n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

148. Well, Cafferty is like 106 years old.

He's had no higher education and he's a white guy. He likes to play the crudmugeon. He's the perfect demographic for saying something monumentally stupid like that.

[NNN0LHI]

153. Next Jack will be telling us he has lots of black friends too

Its coming.

Don

[EFerrari]

164. We're going to be hearing a lot of stuff like that and in some very

surprising places. And, a lot of those people will be well intentioned but just stupid.

I hope we handle well.

[ima_sinnic]

166. gee, that's horrible--so UNpresidential

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

if Obama doesn't want to be called "articulate," why does he give speeches? if he doesn't want to be called "articulate," he should just stfu because he IS articulate. OH THE HORROR OF IT!!!
being articulate is a GOOD THING, especially in a president.
or should we be proud of our inarticulate jr. shit-stain unelected "president"?

and I CALL BULLSHIT on anyone who says "white candidates are not called articulate. For example:

Yepsen, Des Moines Register: "Edwards Emerged As the Evening's Most Effective and Articulate Challenger to Clinton." (October 30, 2007)

Time: Edwards demonstrated "articulate passion." (October 31, 2007)

Blogger Steve Benen, the Carpetbagger Report: "I like Edwards, especially because he’s articulate and has a vision." (December 28, 2006)

Candy Crowley, CNN: "(Edwards) is... a very articulate man. ... He was front and center during the Monica Lewinsky impeachment trial of Bill Clinton and was considered very articulate during that time." (January 1, 2003)

Blogger Steve Benen, the Carpetbagger Report: "... Edwards is a very bright, articulate, and aggressive lawmaker." (August 26, 2003)

David Greenberg, Legal Affairs: "Fresh-faced and articulate, (Edwards) possessed a warmth that his rivals lacked." (January 2004)

Slate partial headline: "... John Edwards is bright and articulate and really, really youthful. ..." (February 6, 2004)

Charles Paul Freund, Reason Online: "(A)lmost all the coverage was founded on the theme of Edwards as an articulate, appealing, and energetic political force." (July 7, 2004)

Rob McManamy, the University of Chicago Chronicle: "The charismatic, passionate and articulate former U.S. Sen. John Edwards is speaking out about the need to lift more Americans out of poverty and into the middle class." (March 2, 2006)

David Hampton, clarionledger.com: "Edwards is young, smart, articulate and a good Southerner with moderate tendencies and a heart for traditional Democratic issues." (December 28, 2006)

wikiDemocrats.com: "He's charming, he's smart and he's articulate." (as of January 29, 2007)

Have Edwards supporters been critical of those comments??? Is Edwards somehow demeaned by them?
But Obama -- hey, if he can't take the heat of being called "articulate," he has no business giving speeches! The nerve of some people, to point out how talented and good he is at making his points and expressing himself!! sheesh.

But suit yourselves. Criticize the voters for pointing out a desirable quality in a candidate. This is why I do NOT want Obama to become president. I'm not especially interested in the PC police obtusely misinterpreting everything to show how "victimized" they are and making perfectly good words like "tar baby," "niggardly," and "articulate" off limits.

And fuck your "code words" BULLSHIT. Sometimes a compliment really is just a compliment. It does not have to be some big fucking conspiracy.

[TankLV]

169. Thank you for saying what I hope the majority of us here think...

[Karenina]

179. Yes, it is quite clear that a large vocal number on this board

are hostile and insensitive to the sensibilities, input and life experiences of nonwhite DUers. The post you responded to is one of the ugliest diatribes on this thread. I will continue to hope that such vitriol does NOT represent the "majority" here as we prepare for the infected scab of American racism and sexism to be picked bloody during this election process.

[EFerrari]

171. You don't need a conspiracy if you have a habit.

On edit: It may be a surprise to many people at DU that this is a way that minorities are marginalized. And it might be more useful to think about it than to deny it.

[ima_sinnic]

172. praise = marginalization

pointing out the obvious = marginalization
commenting on a public speaker's talent = marginalization
pointing out a quality that is desirable = marginalization

riiiight.

so I say again, if he doesn't want to be praised as "articulate," he has no business giving speeches. "ARTICULATE" is a GOOD THING in a presidential candidate.

and if you think the voters are not going to notice good qualities in a candidate--go back to lala land.

[EFerrari]

173. You are making Obama responsible for the speech acts of others?

Interesting.

You know, it's no credit to you to be oblivious to the metaphors racists use in this culture.

/spellin'

[ima_sinnic]

175. obtuse much? I am saying, if he is running for public office and giving

speeches, people are going to comment on his speeches and on his ability to make his points and deliver his message. Just because he is black, he is not immune from that kind of evaluation. ALL of the candidates' speeches and ability to deliver a speech are critiqued.

But I guess we're not allowed to say anything about Obama-the-candidate's speeches because that would be "racist." He should be allowed to run for office without praise or criticism. Just that idea in and of itself is totally racist. I don't give a fuck what color he is, he IS articulate. I happen to like Edward's platform better, though, and I DON'T like Obama for this very reason, that he should somehow be held above any sort of commentary, to avoid "appearance of racism."

[EFerrari]

176. There is nothing obtuse about calling you on your insensitivity

to what people of color are subjected to everyday.

And calling Obama "articulate" is like calling Bill Clinton "poised". It is a diminution of the actual skill level. Obama isn't only articulate. He could speak circles around 11 of 10 candidates. (And, no, he's not my candidate either.)

[TankLV]

167. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, too...

seems somebody has their panties in a twist...

altho, based on the past histories of too many persons, I can see why you'd think this was so...

[EFerrari]

170. I wish I could somehow post the video clip of the guy in Jenna

that Amy Goodman interviewed because he could illustrate this perfectly. He is on the school board.

He looks like your grampa.

Nothing that he said was overtly racist. He didn't use the N or D words.

But everything he said taken together was horrible, coded and hateful as possible.

I'm not claiming Jack and KKK grampa are on the same level at all. But racist grampa would truly show people how banal evil really is, how innocuous. How under the radar.

People cringe when Obama is subjected to the tropes of racism that pass for compliment for a reason.

We've heard them all before.

Edit: clarification

[Generic Brad]

180. As opposed to Jack Cafferty who is articulate but unpleasant