Hillary wants it too much.

[undeterred]

She seems desperate to be president, like her whole life has been leading up to this moment. I get a little of that from the others too, but its more like they feel called to serve. With Hillary, I feel like she wants power. Maybe I'm all wrong, but I think thats what comes across, and that's what it is about her that scares people away.

[LiberalEsto]

1. That's how I feel, too

It's more about her than about American citizens and what we need

[TwilightGardener]

4. Well, she's "in it to win it"--that doesn't inspire you?

[undeterred]

11. So were Joe Biden and Chris Dodd

No it doesn't really inspire me.

[LiberalEsto]

12. Yes, but what's in it for us?

The people without health insurance, the people whose jobs are being outsourced (to companies like Tata in India that Hillary is cozy with), the people who are sick and tired of this endless occupation in Iraq?

Being in it to win it is nice, but there has to be a message beyond just winning. There has to be something in it for the voters.

[TwilightGardener]

2. She didn't put up will Bill's shenanigans to be denied her turn. I expect she's

plenty pissed and getting both barrels ready today.

[Demeter]

3. But Not Enough To Cast Out the Devils

She wants it, she's going to have to take chances, cut the corporate umbilical, deal with reality, and become her own woman.

[KittyWampus]

6. I fully embrace your post.

[undeterred]

24. Not enough to get rid of a "health care plan" which guarantees

generous salaries to insurance industry executives and mandates expensive insurance plans for middle income families. She doesn't want it that bad.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. yes, I smell that too.

One of the many reasons I don't want to have to vote for her.

[Bluestar]

7. Oh, please

And we have Barack Obama telling an audience this a.m. that if he wins NH, he will be the next president. And you think HE doesn't want it just as bad??

For those of you who will jump on me, I know the direct quote is "if you give me the same chance that Iowa did, I believe I will be the next president". So don't bother jumping on me. Some of us are just sick of his cockiness.

[libbygurl]

23. Amen. And the cockiness of some of his supporters here. n/t

[0007]

34. .......and the silliness of a defeated woman that full of baloney.

Maybe next time Hillary?

[emilyg]

38. I am. Thank you.

[xultar]

8. Is that bad? Would you want someone who didn't want it? Look, y'all

are finding any thing and everything to bash her with.

IF she didn't want it you'd say she didn't want it enough.
If she wanted it you'd say that she wants it too much
IF she didn't fight back you'd say that she wasn't strong enough to take on the Republicans
If she fought back you'd call her a hawkish man
If she didn't have any money you'd doubt her ability to fund raise
IF she has too much you say she's a money hogging corporate bitch
If she showed emotion you'd say she was too emotional
If she didn't show it you'd say she has no feeling
If she were a man you'd say she's not diverse enough
Since she's a woman you say it doesn't make a difference

If she won IA you'd be saying she has a corrupt machine
Since she came in 3rd you are saying she doesn't have what it takes

Be honest with yourselves people.

You don't like her and you'll use any tool to justify it. We get it. y'all hate, don't like, can't stand ,don't want, Hillary. GOT IT. Now talk about the fucking issues goddamnit.

[libbygurl]

22. Touche! n/t

[TwilightZone]

26. I think that you just summed up the last six months on DU in one post.

Very nice.

[saracat]

9. In Hillary's defense, if she didn't want it too much, it would be said she didn't want it "enough"

This is the two edged sword of Hillary's candidacy.Part of the difficulty is the double standard she is held to as a woman and partis the problem she has with being not only a Clinton but Bill's wife.She is in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.Unfortunately, instead of dealing with these things directly, she has traingulated and made the problem worse for herself.

[xultar]

14. DING DING DING. You are correct.

[dflprincess]

20. It all depends on why she wants it

and, like the OP said, I get the feeling she wants it for Hillary, not because she cares about the voters or the country. And, I'm getting the same feeling about Obama. Both of them are willing to do "what it takes" to win - even if it means selling their souls to their big donors.

[saracat]

29. That may be so but that wasn't the issue I was addressing. Edwards is my

candidate and I honestly think that the emphasis on" money" and big donors in this and many other races is disgusting.The Democratic party has sold its soul for a few scheckels.JMHO>

[xultar]

32. FUCK YEAH SHE WANTS IT FOR HILLARY. Good for her. What a president

has to go through damn straight they should want it for themselves. They are putting their lives on the line to make this hell hole a better place.

OBAMA wants it for himself too. So does Edwards. IF he didn't he wouldn't be running again.

[rAVES]

10. Thats exactly it

[YOY]

13. Nobody likes the overcompetetive one

and when it really is a popularity contest on many levels...

Granted I'm still hoping for Edwards but good on Obama for Iowa...

[xultar]

17. That's not true. I love people with a competitive spirit. OBAMA has a competitive spirit

Edwards does, So does Kucinich, Biden, Richardson...

They all do. It is a fucking competition.

[YOY]

19. Xultar, I'm talking about "Over-competitiveness"

e.g.: Violet Beauregard from Dahl's "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory": Anything to win...no matter how low.

Of course they all have to be competetive...but too much and you're sacrificing yourself.

[xultar]

28. I don't see her doing that. I don't see any of our candidates doing that.

If you see that then that is your opinion.

What you must remember is... she's damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. It is a horrible position to be in. If you are prepositioned not to like here then there is almost nothing she'll be able to do that is right in your eyes. Nothing.

Put it this way...

If she had apologised y'all wouldn't have believed her and said that her words were choreographed and played. Since she hasn't appologised you'll hold it over her head.

If she cries you'll say she's playing a role. If she doesn't cry you'll say she has no feelings.

If she doesn't compete you'll call her a loser who doesn't have what it takes.
If she does compete you'll say she's over competitive.

She'll never do it 100% to your satisfaction no matter what she does. And if she tries then she's pandering. So what is left?

[YOY]

33. So nobody should ever criticize anyone's positions on anything?

Sorry Xultar...I never though she stood for my values (and Obama really doesn't either) but she came across as far more cutthroat than anyone else...just my opinion...but an opinion that many seem to share here.

As I have said a million times, I am sure she would be just as competent as her husband in the White House but frankly I really would rather not vote for her unless forced to based on her voting record in the Iraq debacle. At least Edwards apologized more or less...

[xultar]

37. What did she do that made u think she was more cut throat?

[undeterred]

21. When I see two candidates with very similar positions

but one bad mouths every other candidate and is totally ruthless- and she uses that to gain an advantage- I tend to side with the underdog. I like the person who plays fair, is straightforward, lives by principles. Its not just about what they are like on paper, its also about what they are like as people. That's intangible. That goes to whether you feel you can trust them or not. Sometimes you don't find those things out about someone till after they've been elected to office. I know that Hillary has been lied about and smeared and given a rough time by a lot of people. Somehow she chose to go on and endure it. But I wonder if there's revenge coming or where all that anger went.

[xultar]

30. So you don't think Obama and Edwards haven't bad mouthed each other and her? Bullshit

was flung by all. It is just you don't see it as such unless it is done by her.

But yet if she didn't fight back you'd say she was a loser.

If you can't see your own double-standard then I feel sorry for you. No one in this race is pure that includes all the candidates.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. Is this your idea or a writer for Chris Mathew's idea, or did it become

your idea after watching him or some other pundit who "knows what the people" think?

[debbierlus]

16. They all want it.

[lazer47]

18. The best thing in this whole mess is for Hillary to be behind

she doesn't begin to show her best until she gets down,, IMHO

[xultar]

31. True. I think all of our candidates do well when their backs are against the wall. Obama

is proof.

[TahitiNut]

25. Whether or not we fully realize it, I think voters want to be courted ...

... by a person who demonstrates skill and talent at husbandry. Any candidate that adopts the posture of a 'get' - the belle of the ball - will eventually be shunned. Right or wrong, sexist or not, it seems to me that's the embedded paradigm. There's something codependent about it, imho ... as emotionally dysfunctional as the proclamation "(s)he completes me." (Anyone regarding themselves as somehow 'incomplete' lacks the self-esteem that's essential for a healthy choice.)

:hide: (Let the twisters commence.)

[Stephanie]

27. I understand what you mean.

She doesn't seem driven by core beliefs or a desire to change the direction of the country, because we don't really know what her core beliefs are, she is so busy obscuring them. So all we are left with is her ambition and that's no reason to hand someone the presidency.

[undeterred]

35. Exactly.

And as strong and talented and accomplished a woman as she is, she is depending on her husband in ways that no other candidate is doing or could be doing. Hillary is every bit as intelligent and capable as Bill Clinton and every single one of the men from both parties that she is running against.

But there's her husband and his presidency everywhere you look and in every speech. She counts it as experience, and she can't help but define herself by it when she points to better times. So we're not sure who it is that we're being asked to consider- the past? A strong woman with a strong man behind her? Beside her? Or so much a part of her that we're going to get all the bad things of the Clinton era over again.

I don't even know what the husbands of Nancy Pelosi or Barbara Boxer look like... if they ran for president I'd prefer them to be wallflowers.

[rolleitreks]

36. Agreed. She must be denied the office for the sake of her soul. n/t