WHY GAYS FIGHT [BACK]...(dial-up warning, graphic warning)

[readmoreoften]

THEY'RE TRYING TO RID THE WORLD OF US...

Robert Walsh BEFORE


Robert Walsh AFTER


One of those fun, frivolous gay pride marches in Eastern Europe




England, I believe


Average everyday violence


Lashings in Iran


A young gay man in NYC will never walk again, but he can stand.


I'm not sure what's going on here because I can't read the original page, but it happened in Bali.


Performer Kevin Aviance beaten in Manhattan


They survived.


Gay politician Volker in Germany attacked at pride parade: Before


After


Gay Pride in Budapest


Another one


This man's partner was severely beaten by a man hired to work in their home.


Florida mom attacked by anti-gay zealot because her son's friend was gay


Young lesbian beaten exactly four months ago today...


Orthodox Jews riot in the streets against gays



This man was beaten and detained by Homeland Security for trying to flee his native Namibia because he was going to be executed for being gay.


Punched in the face for being gay



AND SOMETIMES THEY SUCCEED...

Gwen Araujo. Murdered by three boys



Sakia Gunn. Stabbed to death for being a lesbian.



Rashawn Brazell. Decapitated and dissected. Body parts dumped in garbage cans along the A Line Subway in NYC in 2005. His head has not been found.



Winans and Lollie murder. Killed on camping vacation.



Others murdered for being gay:














three murdered when an anti-gay activist set off a nail bomb in a gay bar


African lesbian rights activist murdered in Sierra Leone:


Being LGBT in Iraq gets harder after Saddam is replaced by Muslim fundamentalists:

transgendered woman in Iraq, tortured and burned alive


Iraqi boys murdered for being gay by the Muslim fundamentalists flooding Iraq


Scene of gay bar hatchet killings in Arkansas


This man's murderer went to a motel with him, killed him, stuffed him in a suitcase, and threw his body in the lake. He laughed and partied afterwards with relatives. His murderer was not charged with a crime. It is lawful to murder gay men to protect yourself from sodomy in Kentucky.


Ronny Parris was killed by his father for being potentially gay. His father attended an evangelical church with a strong ex-gay message. I suppose his father decided to take the whole ex-gay thing into his own hands. Ronny was three years old.


This woman's cousin was stabbed to death


The murdered body of Jamaican gay rights activist Brian Williamson


And for your enjoyment and disgust, some anti-gay literary giants:

From the town next to mine. Remember! Contact your church or some freemarket site!
My girlfriend cleans carpets in peoples homes in this town by herself. She is visibly gay. Yeah, I worry.


This person might be a good, moral, decent person, but they sure don't know how to spell.


If someone sits down to 'discuss their differences' with this soldier, does it violate don't ask don't tell?



PLEASE ASK YOUR POLITICIANS TO PROTECT LGBT PEOPLE FROM DECAPITATION, RAPE, STABBING, BURNING TO DEATH and... even PUNCHING! Or if you can't do that, maybe repeal laws that say anti-gay fanatics can murder us with impunity.

And if that's asking too much...

Can you just understand why we get scared sometimes?

[readmoreoften]

1. Kick cuz I renamed the thread. /nt

[dsc]

2. wow

All I can do is heartedly recommend.

[bigwillq]

3. A powerful post.

K and R.

[zabet]

4. Wow.

:cry:

[begin_within]

5. Religion is poison.

[Mr_Monday]

234. Way to quote Mao nt

[NMMNG]

6. K&R

And some related reading.


On edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwji7g_VK0U

[readmoreoften]

16. See Buffy's post above for more comprehensive information.

I think about how many people we don't know about. How many we don't have pictures of. This is a scratch at the surface. One summer I knew two people who were beaten into the hospital. Two separate incidents.

[SallyMander]

7. K&R

:cry:

[Solly Mack]

8. K&R

Human Rights Now!

or you're just plain wrong

[Divine Discontent]

74. amen!

here's two more - Matthew, and two anonymous Iranian youths hanged for being gay...

[Politicub]

83. I still can't help myself from tearing up when

I see Matthew's picture.

But I'm glad this thread exists. Never forget!

[Divine Discontent]

93. makes me very sad too, but he has helped change thousands of hearts

in his sacrifice...

keep fighting for the right to simply.... be.

[Naturyl]

133. It's not a "sacrifice" he wanted to make...

And it's not one he should have been forced to make. I object to the term "sacrifice" in this context. The man didn't sign up to be beaten to death by bigots as a public service. It was a tragedy - and the fact that good sometimes come from tragedies does not make them any less tragic.

[readmoreoften]

195. One of the weird side effects of the Shepard case is people think it's the only case in history.

It bothers me sometimes to see him used as an icon because there are so many murders of LGBT people that the media has ignored for decades--hell centuries. But that particular case sparked people's interest because he was found in a christlike position and he was blonde, blue-eyed, and pretty. What about little Ronnie Paris? Dead at 3? Why isn't his face splashed all over CNN? Or Rashawn.

The Rashawn case is the one that I can't bear. Decapitated and stuffed into garbage cans in NYC Subway stations and it doesn't even make the local news--let alone the national news. The national media does not know what to do with the concept of the decapitation of an African-American gay teen.

[libnnc]

9. K&R

:kick:

It isn't imagined. It isn't made-up hyperbole. It isn't perceived or exaggerated.


Could you post again your analysis of the ex-gay movement? That needs exposure right now.

[readmoreoften]

11. Absolutely. /nt

[sniffa]

10. K&R and thank you

[FredScuttle]

12. K&R

Out of countless additional faces you could post, I'd like to add this one:



This beautiful man was shot in cold blood and premeditation and the jury gave his assassin a manslaughter sentence of five fucking years.

[readmoreoften]

13. There were MANY faces I did not post. I tried to post the countless unknowns.

Feel free to add and add.

[Karenina]

17. K&R

:cry::grr::cry:
:argh::argh:
:cry::grr::cry:

[pink-o]

62. Not to metion..

...How many gays were passively killed by those who could help ignoring the AIDS plight in the 80s and 90s. I watched my beautiful friends dying slow, agonising deaths, while the people in power (Reagan's ilk) barely kept it secret that they were happy the virus was killing "undesirables" in our society!:grr: :grr:

Until Big Pharma stepped up and came out with the cocktail that allows HIV positive people to spend their life's wages on drugs that keep them alive. Then, as usual, money trumped that fake, sanctimonious morality. Why do you think there's no cure for AIDS yet? Much more advantageous to give people "maintenance" drugs and line the coffers, right? What advantage would there be to developing a vaccine.

After all, it's only gays and Africans that have to deal with AIDS. So sick--in 25 years, nothing has changed.

[Seabiscuit]

170. Thanks for reminding us of Harvey Milk.

I hosted legal convention in San Francisco in honor of Harvey who sat beside me during the dinner shortly before Dan White went berserk and gunned him down.

And no, I'm not gay, but any lawyer worth a damn recognizes that gay rights are fundamental civil rights and fundamental human rights, and that the hate crimes against gays must be stopped.

[maddezmom]

14. K&R

:(

[Kingshakabobo]

15. This hardly made the news in Chicago

Gay Man Attacked, Raped in Cicero
2008-01-02

http://www.wctimes.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=17135


A man has been charged with sexual assault and a hate crime in Cicero after attacking a gay man, according to 365Gay.com.
Felipe Rivera, 43, allegedly confessed on video to beating the victim and then raping him with a metal broom handle. ( They had reportedly gotten into an argument at a party earlier in the evening. ) Allegedly, Rivera said that he raped said victim “because he hates faggots, and this is what they get.”

According to the Chicago Sun-Times, Cicero Police spokesman Dan Proft said, “Mr. Rivera got upset apparently because he believed the victim, No. 1, didn't respond to a female and then, No. 2, somehow winked at him—made what he perceived as a sexual advance.”

Rivera's bond was set at $400,000, including $50,000 for violating parole.

If found guilty, he could receive up to 30 years in jail, and an additional 5 years on the hate-crime charge.

[readmoreoften]

18. Rashawn's decapitated body parts thrown all over the subway system made no major news outlets.

Oh, sorry, page 22 of the NY Times.

If a white heterosexual girl was decapitated and her body chopped up throughout the subway system it'd be a national panic. But what do young black gay men matter?

[NMMNG]

25. It made the news

And then some.
It won't be forgotten.
Not by a long-shot.
It's all over the blogosphere.

Thank goodness for the Intertubes. :bounce:

[avrdream]

19. And don't forget Matthew, either.

Yes, we get scared but we won't stop pressing our case.

[Sugar Smack]

20. No words.

No fucking words.

[WhollyHeretic]

21. Homophobia of any ilk lead to violence. Societal bigotry fosters hatred

and encourages dehumanization. This is why all forms of homophobia need to be confronted.

This was a very powerful post. Thank you.

[Progressive Radical]

22. I'm straight and that is absolutely disgusting. I'm ashamed at what people can do to others.

That pamphlet looks like it could have been written by Goebbels.

Absolutely disgusting. :mad:

[spincycle]

223. Amen

Chalk me up as another straight ally of my LGBTQ friends.

[Swamp Rat]

23. k&r

:cry:

[noiretextatique]

24. those who pander to homophobe will never get my vote

you can't "unite" with people who want to kill you :grr:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Then don't vote for anyone but Kucinich. nt

[readmoreoften]

30. Who has asked us to discuss our differences with anti-gay people? Which candidates?

What are our 'differences' with anti-gay people? The only difference I have with anti-gay people is that they hate me and I have no opinion on them--other than I'd like to survive them. So, what's there to talk about?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. Did he ask you to discuss them with ALL anti-gay people?

Or maybe just the ones who might be persuaded that the way they think is wrong? Is it completely out of line to suggest that?

Are there not people out there who are homophobic because of the way they were raised, yet still wouldn't commit the horrific acts depicted in your thread? Is it better to just angrily write everyone off everyone who is homophobic and let them continue to get their information from Donnie McClurkin?

But yes, tough laws protecting GLBT people from hate crimes need to be enacted and enforced first.

[readmoreoften]

37. And what makes Obama think that LGBT people haven't been reaching out to

"reachable" homophobes since the beginning of time? We DO reach out to those who are just IGNORANT and not HATEFUL. How do you think we've survived this long? Relying on the wisdom of politicians? Did you ever hear of SOULFORCE? MCC? I mean, my GOD what are we supposed to do?

We have no 'differences' with anti-gay black churches.

Would it not have been offensive and absurd for a white politician to say "Now, now. I think you black people need to sit down with the segregationists and iron out your DIFFERENCES?" Would it not be absurd for some white person to come along and scold the black community and say "Now, Now, what he was really saying was REACH ALL THE WHITE PEOPLE YOU CAN REACH? That man who said 'Thank God I was born white!' meant nothing by it! And he did say that Blacks are killing our children. And my candidate did give that man a microphone. But, come on, my candidate supports desegregated schools! You can't possibly think that giving a man a microphone to spout racial hostility trumps my candidates lukewarm support of desegregation? "

Come on.

[gaspee]

121. Exactly

What I've been saying. It kills me how many LGBT people are falling for Obama's snake oil. Absolutely kills me. The man is a member of the UCC church yet uses his "christianity" as an excuse for his bias. He should leave the UCC and join the southern baptists - I think he'd be a better fit.

True story of why I can't stand Obama and will never, ever, ever, ever vote for him.

I told this same story when it happened.

I went to a fundraiser with my sister and Obama was there (this was quite awhile back - before the presidential campaign. Anyway) My sister is 5' 1" tall, blonde, 95 pounds. She's a business person and dresses like it. She and her husband are very well off and she is very feminine. Buys into the whole strict gender roles crap.

Me, on the other hand... I'm 5' 8" tall and pretty heavy (broad shoulders, big frame, a little pudgy but not fat.) I am a very masculine woman and I wouldn't have it any other way because it's who I am. I've always been this way. When people see my childhood pictures, they think I'm a boy. So that's the setup.

At the party - less than 50 people total were there - Obama listened to every word out of my sister's mouth - looked her in the eye and basically treated her with respect.

Me, he spared a glance for at the introduction and never looked at or spoke to again.

Now, whether that was for monetary reasons - she looked like a "big fish" who could donate lots of money (she and her husband were instrumental in getting whitehouse elected - in fact, this was a whitehouse event) or he behaved this way because I am clearly a lesbian (bisexual, actually) I do not care.

The fact was, he treated me dismissively and disrespectfully and whether it was because he thought I was broke (which I am) gay (which I am) or stupid (not - Brown University graduate, BA and an MA in history and politics) -- I DON'T CARE. That wasn't the first time I've been treated as invisible.

So, my beef with him goes far deeper than the whole ex-gay thing. Why, because I think the ex-gay thing wasn't an aberration for him - I think it was the norm for him.

I will never again vote for a politician who thinks I am less than worthy of full human rights. Never, ever. Look at OP to see why.

We *can't* negotiate with people who think we shouldn't exist. He should know better. We should all know better.

[readmoreoften]

140. This should be its own OP. That is very disheartening to hear about him.

It must've been really bizarre to be ignored by a campaigning politician on the kissing babies trail. I think Obama is very sheltered from LGBT people. Growing up in nations with rather homophobic mores (Kenya, Indonesia) may have had a distancing effect on him. I'm not saying he's anti-gay necessarily, but maybe just uncomfortable around us because of a general ignorance.

(By the way, my GF is very masculine and I know the crap y'all deal with...)

[reggie the dog]

148. He lived in Chicago

folks are openly gay there, oopps he lived on the south side, I lived on the north side, the north side, especially near Wrigley Field and south to the loop, is one of the most accepting places for gay people in the midwest. I lived there for a year and was hit on by gay men quite a few times (most said they loved my long blonde hair) and I always took it as a compliment. I just politely explained that I was neither gay nor bi but flatterd. I also had a guy offer me a romantic weekend in Cannes once in the subway in Paris and I did the same thing, I politely explained that I was not gay. Why do some folks have to get all bent out of shape???? It stoked me and made me feel good to know that folks thought I was sexy enough to hit on just the same as I do when women do it (I politely explain to them that I am happily married).

[pauldg0]

190. I'm glad I read this..............

John Edwards doesn't basically respect people...........

He looks directly into everyone's eyes when talking to them.......... EVERYBODY........EVERYBODY!!!

HE DOES THIS!!!! He looks into everybody's eyes when he talks to them. He even gets on his knees to talk to young children. We need John Edwards.

Get your word around New England and especially, NEW HAMPSHIRE..........

This man has to get all of your votes....spread the word.

[readmoreoften]

192. Yeah, you'd expect a politician to PAY ATTENTION to you when he talks. Gosh.

I can't imagine Edwards ignoring someone on the campaign trail. Who cares if it's 'phony'? It's good politicking and good manners.

[plantwomyn]

164. Obama!

Check out his excuse for sharing a stage with Donnie McClurkin.

[Beausoir]

112. They will NEVER get my vote. I will not vote for anyone who willingly bashes gay people.

Never.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

26. K&R for the fighters. n/t

[salin]

27. Exceptionally powerful thread

:cry:

[SeattleGirl]

28. K&R

:cry:

[LostinVA]

31. K&R!!!

BTW, I didn't know there were black gay people.

KIDDING

It's shocking how many on DU think all gay people are rich and white, though.

[Kucinich4America]

75. Comes with the propaganda.

I've seen crap put out by religious reich extremists which implies that "all gays" are rich and well educated.

No supporting evidence of how they arrived at that conclusion, of course.

Maybe you walk into the Federal Bureau of Homosexuality when you're 18 and say "Hi I'm gay" and they immediately hand you a million dollars and a full scholarship??

Hell, I'm straight, but if I can get a deal like that, I'll lie on the application :evilgrin:

[mitchtv]

89. >they immediately hand you a million dollars and a full scholarship??

If only, all I got was a toaster!
K&R

[Tunkamerica]

134. man. i need a toaster

3 years old? that struck me the hardest

[reggie the dog]

149. i think it is just that

in well educated circles, and to a lesser extent in wealthy circles, gay people are accepted for who they are.

[Der Blaue Engel]

32. We should just "get over it," Read

If we don't reach out to people who want to beat, rape, torture, and murder us because of their religious beliefs, we're selfish, Christian-bashing bigots.

:sarcasm:

:cry: That picture of Gwen just destroys me. I followed that case very closely and wrote a fantasy novella dedicated to her.

Thank you for trying to open the eyes of those who don't get it.

[readmoreoften]

33. Our deaths and our lives have always been erased by our good Christian relatives who want to protect

our reputations. They burn our histories (those dirty pictures!) and steal our property out from under our partners to give it to some second cousin we hardly know. Now that's family 'values'.

[a la izquierda]

136. Not in my family they won't...

I'll be god-damned if someone thinks that because my mom is gay they can take anything away from her partner. My sister would allow it, but thankfully, I'm the oldest.
But it's so disturbing that there are these sorts of people out there. I remember when I was about 10 or 11, a neighborhood girl called my mother a dyke and said we were all going to hell because of her 'sins'. I beat the crap out of her--not the way one should handle things, but I was a kid. I didn't know what dyke meant, but I knew it was a very unkind term. Only years later, when I figured out the meaning, did I have real satisfaction knowing that girl was scared to even look at my mom weird.
I remember the Gwen Araujo case. It made the news and newspapers in California for a while.

[readmoreoften]

143. Cheers to all kids of LGBT parents. I hate how politicians forget about you.

They forget that 'gay marriage' means kids' health insurance, housing, and security. At least that girl learned she can't threaten people's families without provoking a response. I think kids fight alot because they don't know how to reason well. I also think that's why gay bashers are both anti-gay and violent: they don't know how to reason well.

[NuttyFluffers]

155. Gwen's case occurred in the city i spent many childhood years growing up.

she was only a few years younger than me as well. normally a sweet little town in middle-suburbia next to perhaps the most recognized metro-haven for LGBT on earth. and it can happen here. the hate is inescapable until you fight back. it will never stop, it will never abate, it will never slow down, it will continue, forever and ever and ever until you stand up and fight back. this is the same thing with neo-cons stirring up liberalism and Democrats as another target group. this hate will never end until you fight, period. sometimes good people have to beat back evil people, and sometimes compromise is not an option.

[awoke_in_2003]

165. "sometimes compromise is not an option."

Sad but true. Both my sisters are gay. We live in Texas. I worry about this crap quite a bit. One consolation- the older sister is a cop, so she is legally packing all the time. Someone messes with her, it will be the last time.

[krabigirl]

35. Powerful post! K&R!

[unpossibles]

36. K&R although I wish I did not have to

I don't understand people. It's shit like this that makes me wish religion were never invented. Yes, I am aware that not all hate crimes are religious and also that obviously there are many religious people who are not bigots, but religion gives these people the motive and the excuse to hate people for no real reason.

[myrna minx]

38. K&R. Absolutely speechless.

:cry: All my love to my LGBT brothers and sisters.

[readmoreoften]

39. Oh my god I'm in love with your picture! Tom Waits! /nt

[myrna minx]

42. Doesn't he look like a baby in that photo?

:hi: Fantastic post, btw.

[readmoreoften]

46. If he was a lesbian I'd be all over him.

Oh wait, if he were a lesbian he'd kinda look like my girlfriend... :)

[myrna minx]

55. Ha! I hope she sports a porkpie hat, too. I love anyone in a porkpie.

:hi: For your viewing pleasure...
Tom Waits on Fernwood Tonight! Canned laughter and all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_0E7x3Nqys

[readmoreoften]

144. Bookmarked indeed. My ex-girlfriend used to wear a porkpie. I also enjoy a pork-pie.

But my husband wears suspenders and a newsboy cap. And she's only half as drunk as Tom Waits was at her age... ;)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

40. K&R.

[ralps]

41. Thanks for posting those readmoreoften, I posted a link to your thread to

Peter Godbold of the HORN's Strictly Confidential & He probably will post a link to your thread sometime soon.- http://strictlyconfidentialradio.com/ :hi: :grouphug: :cry:

[ralps]

45. Peter Godbold has already posted a link to your post at his website

http://strictlyconfidentialradio.com/
:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :grouphug:

[readmoreoften]

47. That's really awesome! Thank you! /nt

[ralps]

63. Peter Godbold has a great GLBT show most nights at the HORN starting at 9pm

eastern time (IMO) if you're interested- http://www.headonradionetwork.com/

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[ooglymoogly]

43. Religion organizes the ignorant to hate

90% of all the murderous hate incited blood spilt over the ages can be laid at the feet of religion. Lies need an army to protect them and to destroy the non believers.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

44. K&R to the MOON!

Excellent and very heartbreaking post!

Very well done. :thumbsup:

[JackBeck]

48. A video made by the brilliant Sapphocrat that I would like to share with you:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cwji7g_VK0U

[readmoreoften]

49. Thanks for posting this more prominently in this thread. It's an awesome video. /nt

[MelissaB]

50. .

My brother is gay, so I fight. He isn't alone though. My cousins are gay/lesbian. My students are gay. My friends are gay.

K&R


:kick:

[readmoreoften]

52. Yes. The murder of gay people isn't only a gay issue. It's an issue for our loved ones as well.

It's also an issue for straight people who've never met a gay person. Plenty of folks have been murdered because people simply thought or assumed they were gay. In my friend's hometown, a man was murdered for wearing a pink shirt.

[MelissaB]

56. That could have happened in my town.

We grew up in a small town in Alabama. My brother was constantly called names and made fun of even though he wasn't "out" for many years later. His life was hell. I went back and taught in the same school where we graduated and tried to make a difference. Kids need to know that everyone's mind isn't closed and judgmental.

Thank you for your post. I think many people don't realize what happens/can happen to GLBTs at any age.

[UndertheOcean]

51. K&R

[Coexist]

53. I am sitting here in tears.

[FreeState]

54. Never again! K&R

[readmoreoften]

87. Never again. But probably tonight. /nt

[indimuse]

57. omg..

this is horrible.:wtf:

[pleah]

58. This is the new witch hunts. People have been asking when it was going to start,

it already has. I have worked with gay people and I have always found them to be much nicer and more caring than most of the straight people. Everyone has the right to live without fear of being killed for being different.

[pleah]

59. K&R

[Agony]

60. kick myself in the ass and K&R too

In my ignorance I used to wonder "why do gays have to be so -in your face- about their gayness?" You know I get it... allright already! I support you! enough with the gay pride parades! I apologize for thinking that way once... Thanks for posting this, readmore. I think I get it now.

I even wear my Gay? Fine by Me. tshirt occasionally.

[readmoreoften]

146. Hey, we all start somewhere. My parents even used to say that. Hell, I used to think similar things

and I'm gay m'self.

Remember, though, some of the people killed by the anti-gay movement are straight. Some of the people pictured above are straight. How many boys did you know who got beat up for being 'faggots' as a kid were straight? How many straight girls were called a dyke? Homophobia is sort of everyone's burden.

[reggie the dog]

154. After I got it

I used the same idea for cannabis legalization. Be open, be in their face, and show that cannabis smokers, gay people, blacks, whatever, are regular folks like anyone else.

[knitter4democracy]

61. And those who commit suicide because they can't change themselves.

Those are the ones who make me weep. The teens who hate themselves that much because they are taught to hate themselves. Horrifying.

Someday, we'll all be equal under the law and be free from this kind of violence. I pray and work for that day. :hug:

[readmoreoften]

88. Huge issue. Plus almost 50% of homeless teens are LGBT. /nt

[reggie the dog]

157. probably

kicked out by their "loving" families....

[knitter4democracy]

172. That happened to a friend of mine in college.

When she came out, her dad disowned her and sent her a bill for college and repo'd her car. What a loving Christian father. :eyes:

[readmoreoften]

176. There was a homeless gay student living in the NYU library back in 2003. "Bobst Boy"

His dad disowned him. He was formerly wealthy. He lived in the library and slept on chairs, showered in the gym, and worked 5 jobs to pay his tuition. I believe he graduated. He kept his identity secret because he was afraid he'd get kicked out of the library by the NYU Administration (who I can wholly see doing such a thing.)

He also said he considered himself very lucky because he was still privileged because his upbringing had gotten him into the school in the first place and that with the help of friends he'd probably be okay in life.

Other gay kids are not so lucky. I mean, how are African-American transgendered kids going to survive on streets without selling their bodies or turning to gangs for help. What? Are they going to get jobs :sarcasm: ? Who hires teenaged queens and butches?

sigh...

[knitter4democracy]

180. That's awful!

Why didn't someone take him in? Heck, in college, it wasn't unusual for people to crash in a friend's dorm room for a few nights and then all of us work out where they'd go after that.

[readmoreoften]

182. I think he did crash at people's places every now and then, but there's no room for that in NYC.

I paid over $1000 a month for a room I shared with my partner. And that was at a big discount. The other rooms in the house were $1500 a piece.

[knitter4democracy]

220. Oh my goodness! Those prices are crazy!

I forget sometimes the prices in New York and elsewhere. I'm used to Midwest pricing, and Michigan's especially low when it comes to housing.

A room in a house for $1500. I've never heard of such a thing. That's more than our house payment.

[Chovexani]

123. I was almost one of them

Several times.

[Sugar Smack]

128. Jesus, Chovexani.

I'm fucking crying right now cause there are no words for this shit. None. You are beautiful.:cry: :hug:

[knitter4democracy]

173. Oh, I'm so sorry you were in that darkness.

:( How awful. :(

How blessed we all are that you didn't succeed and that we have you in our lives here. May you always know what a true blessing you are to everyone around you. :hug:

[idgiehkt]

64. the photo captioned "England I believe" was taken in Russia

That is 'Right Said Fred' singer Richard Fairbrass pictured with the union jack on his shirt, he and other activists were attacked while trying to hold a gay pride march in Moscow.

Great thread. The names Teena Brandon and Matthew Shepard come to mind to, and many others we may never hear. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[readmoreoften]

78. Thanks for clarifying! /nt

[reggie the dog]

158. ok

I thought it was strange to see such a bashing in the UK. From what I have seen the UK is very accepting to gay people. Not as good as Spain, the Netherlands, or Belgium mind you.

[readmoreoften]

194. Many of these photos are from the UK. Gay-bashing happens everywhere.

The nail bomb was in the UK. In a post below (called 20 more pics) there's a picture of a beaten UK sailor. I few others as well. Nowhere is safe. Kevin Aviance was gay-bashed in Manhattan. There was a gay-bashing in Provincetown someone posted downthread. You're not safe anywhere.

[reggie the dog]

199. that is shitty as hell

Have you heard about such things in the Netherlands, Belgium, or Spain??? Gay marriage with adoption rights exist there, but perhaps the culture of hatred still exists. I would throw down to help you if someone tried that shit on you and I was nearby.

[readmoreoften]

208. There are still fascists in Spain. See photos of skinheads in Sweden downthread.

They're small and powerless in Sweden, though. Spain has a huge racist skinhead movement as well as a huge antifa movement (skinheads and punks who protect gays and racial minorities from violence).

[reggie the dog]

210. skinheads

are nearly non existant in france but we still have racist, homophobic, sexist assholes here. gay bashing is severely punished here ain a simillar manner as a racist crime

[maxanne]

65. you are not alone

I fight with you.

My UU congregation fights with you.

Thank you for posting this. It breaks my heart that you have to live in fear.

[Beelzebud]

66. Any of these people could be a friend. A brother. A sister. A mother. A father...

Such a shame that some human beings see other human beings as subhuman...

A powerful post. Thanks.

[Toasterlad]

67. Thank You. This Message Can Never Be Heard Enough.

No matter how much progress you think gay people have made, no matter how "mainstream" you think GLBT is, no matter how many seasons of Will & Grace you own on DVD, remember that someone is likely DYING RIGHT NOW - at their own hand, or at the hands of another - simply because they're physically attracted to their own sex. And not just in Serbia or Jamaica or Thailand: right here in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

[toughboy]

68. Thank You.

[Maestro]

69. I can't understand people hating so much just because

of whom someone loves!

[flvegan]

70. They'll have to rid the world of the likes of me, too.

I don't like to fight, but I can, and I've got a lot of LGBT friends and family.

[Divine Discontent]

71. there are SO many more we could put in here...

one that always upsets me is the Iranian hangings of the young gay men there. But there is EVERY hour violence against GLBT people across this country - people just don't believe it.

That is one reason I am upset Obama let one of the people that encourage violence (with the tone of his language) against gays because he says it needs to be 'exterminated', on his Gospel Tour Stage.

[proud patriot]

72. k and r

[racaulk]

73. What an incredibly powerful post!

I just don't have the words to describe the emotions this post brings out in me. All I can do is kick and recommend.

Thank you!

:cry:

[helderheid]

76. K&R... will humanity ever learn?

[Duncan Grant]

77. Great thread!

readmoreoften, you are my kind of DUer. :pals:

[SunDrop23]

79. K&R

[Hissyspit]

80. Kicked and recommended.

[Rockholm]

81. K&R.

[Rex]

82. Killed for being human.

Sad. Pathetic. Wrong.

[Politicub]

84. K&R n/t

[Clintonista2]

85. K+R

[JackBeck]

86. Two more stories just from today:

Two Youths To Be Executed in Iran for Possible ‘Gay’ Rape?
Four others get 100 lashes

http://ukgaynews.org.uk/Archive/08/Jan/0402.htm

Christian extremism raises alarm
A trial resumes today for a Slavic man charged with killing a gay man in Sacramento, Calif.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0104/p03s01-ussc.html

[readmoreoften]

90. The second death is connected to an ex-gay program in the US.

Ken Hutcherson's Watcher on the Walls

[JackBeck]

92. And some on here question wonder why

we have a difficult time forgiving Obama for giving stage time to McClurkin and his caravan of fellow homophobic performers.

[NMMNG]

98. They are some extremely dangerous people

The Box Turtle Bulletin has done a great series on their hate campaign.

[salin]

99. where can I read (and pass on) more about this?

the ex-gay movement is a travesty, but some folks who are neutral,
don't see/understand the extreme damage being caused by this movement.

:cry:

[libnnc]

102. Here is a great thread started by the OP on the dangers

of the ex-gay movement. Very well organized and a must read.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2500141&mesg_id=2500141

[salin]

139. thank you for linking that

I am crying after watching some of those videos. I am book marking that thread.

[NMMNG]

104. Here you go:

Lavender Newswire

Ex-Gay Watch (Be sure to check out their blog-roll)

[CorpGovActivist]

91. Thank You!

:hug:

- Dave

[begin_within]

94. And this one:

[harmonicon]

95. wow - extremely powerful and depressing shit, but lets please not blame Christians for this

Hateful people will come up with any excuse or medium to express and spread their hatred. The pastor at the evangelical church where my mom teaches sunday school has an openly gay son, and I know he loves him very much. I went to high school with him, and know the entire family. We lived just down the street from them when I was kid. They're all evangelical Christians, and all really fantastic people. My mother certainly doesn't hate homosexuals, I know that much.

There is nothing to be gained by having one group hate another. I don't know how to overcome these problems, but lets please focus on remembering that we are all equal and should be free to live as we choose - denying those inalienable rights is the cause of all of these tragedies pictured above.

[readmoreoften]

138. Most definitely there are gay and pro-gay Christians. Some are very active in fighting homophobia.

Mel White created the Metropolitan Community Church, a gay Christian church with a fairly large denomination. There are not many places where you can see a middle-aged African American transgendered woman in a flowered frock singing hymns in a lovely baritone, but you can at the MCC in Dallas.

I would like to see more Christians actively speaking out against and making people aware of the anti-gay motivation behind some of the genocides caused by the movement. The transgender elements of Native American culture were pointed to as an excuse for Manifest Destiny in the US and Latin America. For example, 'sodomites' were attacked by dogs and burned in piles by Christian conquerers in Peru. The 'sodomitic practices' of American Indian tribes in the US were our reason for 'civilizing' them. The relationship between Christianity, Empire, History, and anti-LGBT theology ought to be explained to practicing Christians so that they can speak out against homophobia in the Church as well as current "cleansing purges" (a term in current use by anti-gay evangelical crusaders.)

I also call out anti-gay Orthodox Jews (Both Conservative and Reform Jews are highly LGBT tolerant) as well as Muslims. I do wish there were more muslims who would take up jihad (which simply means a spiritual burden) against homophobia. I have attended multi-faith LGBT political meetings and there is a palpable lack of muslim support. I believe this will probably change, but not soon.

But, no, murdering gays is not anywhere in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. It is by no means a purely Christian (or even religious) phenomenon. Take care!

[NorthCarolina]

171. As we have seen lately, there are also many Gay "Christians"

who are the most ardent and vocal spokespersons advocating homophobia, intolerance, and hate in the name of god. Most of them seem to be staunch Republicans to boot. When compared to much of the civilized world, America is really whacked.

[harmonicon]

188. Yes, religion should be used to unite us all as a people, not divide

People will think of any reason to divide (and conquer). Christianity was used to justify slavery in this country, but also to destroy it.

[Mr_Monday]

243. Nice analogy.

:thumbsup:

[Blue Fire]

96. As a straight man, I share your outrage and understand your fear.

At least, I believe I do. Freaky Freddie Phelps and his Whackybrained Butthead Cult, and their sickening, misguided and hopelessly ignorant vilification of gay Americans, are part of the real cancer that eats away at the right to be free here in the land of the free. And I can't believe that law in Kentucky can actually survive constitutional muster! Our knuckle-dragging caveman ancestors were more civil!

[readmoreoften]

147. Heck, straight folk should be scared too. You could be killed or beaten for hanging out with us.

The woman pictured in the bridal dress who was killed in the gay bar seems to have had a husband. There were other photos (there were so many photos I didn't have the ability to post them all) of straight men murdered because someone assumed they were gay.

I should start a thread of straight people who were killed by gay-bashers. I guess that's why we all need to fight. We're all capable of being harmed by these folks.

[Blue Fire]

218. I think I'll take my chances hanging out with good people of diverse sexual orientation

long before I associate with stupid, hate-mongering bigots. I know how to fight back.

[Maven]

97. K/R

Nothing more needs to be said.

[Triana]

100. One word comes to mind: senseless (n/t)

[Spiffarino]

101. Hell's too kind a place

...for those who would hurt or kill you merely for being who you are.

[swimmernsecretsea]

103. I've been there.

Beaten, harrassed, stalked. And sometimes others think I've exaggerated. Thanks for posting this.

[readmoreoften]

150. I've never personally been beaten but people have thrown bottles at me a few times.

And I've been sexually harassed by acquaintances. Oddly enough, I've been pushed and shoved a lot by drunk men who suddenly have fits of insecurity about my lesbianism. I do worry a lot though. The gang members on my block called my GF a dyke when she was coming home from work the other day and that made us feel a little uncomfortable. I'd really like to be a positive part of my community, but sometimes I don't know how.

[NikolaC]

105. K&R

I will NEVER understand the fear and hatred. Those images are horrible, sad, desperately need to be learned from and should never be forgotten.

[awoke_in_2003]

169. I think some of the fear

comes from sexual suppression. I am a straight man, but I have thought about gay relationships, and can admit that and know there is nothing wrong with it. These people have probably had the same thoughts, but repress and deny them- whether for perceived religious or moral "normalcy". They fear the thoughts or feelings they have, and use violence to mask them from others. That is my take on it.

[troubleinwinter]

106. K & R

[Irishonly]

107. K&R

I am sorry.

[JackBeck]

108. Kick.

For those who don't support marriage equality.

[rockybelt]

109. We are supposed to be

a nation of tolerance. The practice of exclusion and intolerance is preached by those who are in power. Several of the politicions now running for president preach a policy of intolerance.
Unacceptable.

I don't really care what your sexual preference is. That is an extremely personal thing. I have two nephews that are gay and what difference does it make? They are both human beings who have a mother that loves them very much. They are both successful in their respective professions (Air traffic control and a pharmacist) and are respected by the community.

It seems the only people who care about your sexual drive are the republicans who, it seems, have a whole lot of gay members in their political structure. These people will vote to deny any gay person the basic rights that everyone else has under the Constitution. That really sucks.

Hypocritical people or those who may have gay tendencies are the ones causing the problems. If you are confident in your sexuality, regardless if gay or straight, what the hell difference does it make if somebody else is different than you?

We men are just about all hypocritical. What man does not envision two women making love? Note to you that do: They are gay!

Leave them alone and concentrate on things that matter. Things like the Constitution and the fact that the US government in the past 7 years alone has killed well over 2 million people just for the hell of it. THAT is what should piss you off, not the fact that someone found love and peace.

[FedUp_Queer]

187. Tolerance is dangerous

As a gay person, every time I hear a person preach "tolerance," I am disgusted. One tolerates the fact that one has a cold. One tolerates their noisy neighbors. One tolerates their bigoted uncle. One tolerates things one does not like, but "allows" he/she/it to exist. The issue is acceptance. I don't need your personal acceptance, I demand and deserve legal recognition and equality. We all accept equality of black people are equal. We all accept equality of women. We all accept the equality of people based upon whatever. Until people can say: "We all accept the equality of LGBT people." LGBT people will be something society "tolerates" and "allows" to exist because there is nothing else it can do with us.

I understand that you meant well with the "tolerance" tirade, but as a gay person, I really don't want tolerance because implicit in the word is the notion that those who tolerate would rather not have you around and "let" you exist because there's no other option.

[rockybelt]

189. Then I guess you can consider me to be dangerous.

[FedUp_Queer]

193. Did you actually read what I wrote?

I never said you were dangerous. However, if you insist on "tolerance" as opposed to acceptance, yes, I do consider your view dangerous.

[Beausoir]

110. Kick for Democrats who refuse to view the GLBT community as second class citizens.

I will NEVER vote for a politician who believes that any member of the GLBT community can be "cured".

Never.

[complain jane]

111. Gay rights are a political football.

I'm a lesbian and I'm way too cynical to think any politician sincerely cares about gay rights on either side of the political aisle. I just think the Republicans are the greater evil.

[Beausoir]

113. Given past and present history, I don't blame you for thinking that way.

We have a front runner in the Democratic party who believes that gay people can be "healed" through prayer.

It's depressing beyond words.

[ninkasi]

114. A man who is now in his forties

is someone I've known since he and my daughter were fourteen. When he confronted his sexuality, he turned to me, since his mother, who later took her life, would not listen to him.

I told him that to have love in his life was a thing of beauty, but to wait to form a permanent bond until he was older. That's the same thing I said to my daughter.

The three of us are all still close, and I can't begin to convey the love and joy my unofficially adopted son has given us. Why can't people just understand that people, and love, come in all sizes, shapes, and sexes? I am a small woman, and disabled, but I would come to his defense any time he needed it.

Let love rule us. He has a partner of many years, and an adopted son, and they are loving, and healthy, and happy, and a source of joy to my daughter and me.

[readmoreoften]

151. That's a beautiful story. You're a great adoptive mom. :)

:hug:

[Naturyl]

115. K&R

Why can't people understand there is nothing even remotely "moral" about doing this to others? Sometimes I think the most immoral thing in the world is the use of "morality" as a justification for violence.

[Forkboy]

116. Sobering.

Thank you.

[lisainmilo]

117. I didn't realize.....

that so much violence has or does take place.
Very powerful and moving thread....
Thank You for bringing this to all of our attention!

[NMMNG]

119. 1,415 reported incidents in 2006 per the FBI

62.3 percent were classified as anti-male homosexual biased.
20.7 percent were classified as anti-homosexual biased.
13.6 percent were classified as anti-female homosexual biased.
2.0 percent were classified as anti-heterosexual biased.
1.5 percent were classified as anti-bisexual biased.


Who knows how many went un-reported, and what the 2007 figures will be?

More

[readmoreoften]

152. Those are seriously underreported numbers too. There are many jurisdictions who don't take down the

information. Do small towns in south and the midwest where people believe being gay is just a sinful act--do we really think they investigate LGBT hate crimes? If you were gay bashed in a rural town would you tell the cops what happened? Would they report it if you did?

The numbers are way way off. I'd estimate the ratio of unreported assaults to the # of gay people is similar to unreported rapes and the # of women.

[NMMNG]

205. Exactly

In some places you wouldn't want to report being gay bashed, because then you're reporting that you're gay (or bi/tg). So I wouldn't be surprised if the number of actual events is double what the FBI statistics show. It's horrifying.

Such is the power of bigotry.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

229. One of my former teaching colleagues, who grew up in LA in the 1960s

said that the knuckledraggers at her high school used to brag about going to parts of town that had gay bars and "beating up queers" over the weekend.

I slap down anyone who gets homophobic in my presence. My life has taken me into the performing arts, academia, and the Episcopal Church, all of which have a larger percentage of GLBT persons than the general population. The many kind and generous people I've known over the years (some of them, sadly, now dead from AIDS) are better human beings than any of the self-righteous bashers.

[unapatriciated]

118. sadly I can add my daughter to your list

Raped because "she just hadn't met the right guy" quote from her rapist. What is even worse is the local police department's total failure to prosecute it as a hate crime, hell they wouldn't even prosecute it for rape. Their twisted logic was because she became pregnant and decided not to abort that she consented to a stranger while at work in order to have a child. :sarcasm:

[readmoreoften]

153. Oh my god! I am so sorry! What a horrible situation.

I hope is surviving. The system is sick and broken. :hug:

[unapatriciated]

175. She is and

My grandson is a healthy much loved ten year old.

[reggie the dog]

161. damn

now how to ensure that the rapist has a deadly accident while establishing an alibi for ones self

[unapatriciated]

177. When it first happened her brothers

plotted many ways to hurt him, but we chose to do it in civil court and won. It was tricky because even a rapist can get visitation rights. He didn't get visitation and she won a very large award. The guy didn't have any money but at least we got the satisfaction of a court of law affirming that he committed the crime.

[readmoreoften]

178. Civil court. I'll remember that.

I'm glad for your family. I hope he hits the lottery and it all goes to you.

[me b zola]

120. k&r

[tom_paine]

122. Did you ever see that movie Borat? One particularly chilling scene

(it was meant to be a comedy, and mostly it was, but even as a straight guy myself I recoiled from this particularly creepy "funny" scene)

One of the main themes of the Borat movie is that he kept trying to elicit crazy reactions from various Loyal Bushies around Amerika. One scene was from a rodeo somewhere in the South, I believe.

Borat was chatting with a Bushie, amking his jokes, using the witless as his comic foil and, as I said, trying to elicit their full Bushie evil. Well this one cowboy type was chatting with Borat and saying he should shave his moustache because it made him look Middle Eastern and also gay. The conversation turned to homosexuality and Borat continued making his jokes when this particular exchange made me shudder, because the cowboy wasn't a raving Nazi, just your run of the mill Bushie who was even trying to be tolerant to the "Kazakhstanian".

This is just a paraphrase as it has been awhile since I saw the movie, but the exchange is basically correct

BORAT: Oh, you are speaking of homosexuals. In my home country we whip them and hang them and kill them.

BUSHIE COWBOY in his 40s or 50s perhaps: Yeah, that's what we are trying to get done in this country.

That Bushie fucker said it quite matter-of-factly, and as I said, this was no extreme Bushie but the kind of run-of-the-mill "nice guy" Bushie who is putty in the hands of his Bushie Masters and will countenance or perform a lot of evil with just the tiniest "permission from authority" to do so.

Therefore, a K&R for awareness o the very real danger to gay people that exists here and now, barely restrained by the vestiges of our dying Old Republic.

[NMMNG]

126. Creepy

Many people think we're exaggerating when we speak about the very real threats against us. We are not. There is a reason that trans-inclusive ENDA and the Hate Crimes Bill failed to pass this year despite a Democratic majority Congress. The RRRW hate machine is extremely powerful, and sadly even those who claim to be on our side pander to them.

[Naturyl]

132. Yeah, that exchange in "Borat" jumped out at me, too

As you say, it was the casual matter-of-factness with which the cowboy guy said they were trying to get gays killed that took me aback. I don't think the guy was joking or exaggerating. I think he actually looks forward to a day when that kind of thing happens.

I'm not gay, but I am a decent human being. And that is the kind of thing decent human beings (gay and straight) are dealing with in this country.

[readmoreoften]

156. Yes. That's why Obama's good, moral people comment was chilling to many of us.

Of course I would say that in many ways homophobes like this are nice people. I know some very nice people who want me dead. They might be gentle in some situations. Some of them are just delusional about LGBT issues. But I can't call them good or moral people. That is a different story.

[Beetwasher]

159. Yup, And THAT Is Why Cohen Is SO Brilliant!

No one exposes these people the way he does. Frightening.

[RandomKoolzip]

124. A chilling and moving thread. Thank you.

:hug: and a kick

[Indi Guy]

125. K&R Well done.

I worked on a cruise line in the Caribbean. At the crew bar, I heard an acquaintance of mine (from the island of St. Vincent) say, "All gays should be killed." So I asked him, "Would you be willing to kill a gay man?" He said that he would.

I asked him, "What if you had a gay brother, would you kill him?" He paused & thought, and again he said he would. So I said, "You know that there are places in the world where you could be killed for being "different;" Being a Black man, he understood perfectly what I meant. He said, "Yes, I know."

I left him with, "I'm not going to ask you the question again right now. Just think it over & tell me your answer another time.

(The only reason I'm mentioning that I'm straight is to put what happened next into context). What I didn't know was that a gay friend of mine overheard the conversation. He walked up to me with tears in his eyes, & told me that he couldn't describe the feeling in his heart at having been defended in that way. I gave him a big old hug; now I was speechless (a rare event).

Well, a few days later my friend from St. Vincent came up to me at the bar & said. "No, I wouldn't kill my brother if he were gay." I smiled at him, and shook his hand with both of mine. We were good friends afterward.

[banjosareunderrated]

127. K&R!

Thanks for a great post.

[malaise]

129. Touching indeed

K & R

[donheld]

130. And people have the nerve to tell us to "get over it"

Fuck that!

[NMMNG]

131. "Get over it."

No.


I won't.


http://knowthyneighbor.blogs.com/home/2007/09/is-provincetown.html

I can't.

http://cityboyblog.com/2007/06/21/couple-tortured-for-being-gay/


I guess I'm just weird that way.

[Indi Guy]

135. Fuck Cheney, I f he had a gay son who'd been bashed or murdered..

...you bet there would hell to pay for the perps.

Being real, Western society is far more accepting of lesbians than male gays.

Here's the problem -- politicians are whores to the highest common denominator. You can't get elected if you don't identify with the majority. The minorities get lip service & nothing more (ever).

I think the MSM should ask all the candidates of all parties how they feel about gay-bashing.

It won't happen because the MSM are (reluctant) fronts for the corporate shills who own DC.


The mentality that permeates Washington is foreign based. Communist China has insinuated itself into every aspect of our economy. It's been exploiting the Evangelicals for a very long time as well.

Many Eastern nations routinely exterminate their gays (mostly male, but not exclusively).

Achmadinijad (Iran) said that his country had no homosexuals (well maybe not that he could find).

I don't believe in "hate crime" laws. Murder is murder no matter the circumstances.


I don't think that someone who kills a child should be punished any less than someone who gets drunk & kills a gay man outside a bar.

[NMMNG]

203. RE: Hate Crime Laws

I could adress it myself, but it wouldn't be better than this:

For those who think hate-crime laws are unnecessary, and/or bestow "special rights"
Posted by Sapphocrat in General Discussion
Mon May 07th 2007, 02:37 PM
Bold emphasis mine:

Foes of Hate Crime Bill Prove It's Needed

...The proposed Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Act, which was passed by the House of Representatives on Thursday despite the accompanying White House veto threat, includes provisions that would make it possible for federal investigation and prosecution of any hate crime, as well as a more-publicized tenet that expands the definition of hate crimes to include attacks based on sexual orientation, transgender identity, gender and disability. ...

<snip>

Most media and public attention is focused on the clause that offers greater protection for sexual minorities. But it shouldn’t even be news. ...

<snip>

According to FBI reports, 14 percent of 2005 hate crimes were motivated by sexual orientation, which is just slightly less than the percent of attacks based on religion and greater than the percent of attacks based on ethnicity, two groups that are currently protected under the law. Those in the sexual minority deserve the same protection as other minorities because they are just as abused and just as worthy of it. But not only is this protection not afforded them, but arguments against the proposed revisions to hate crime laws are based on prejudices that should be a mere memory in the year 2007. ...

<snip>

Second, while every American citizen has a Constitutional right to protection, those in minority groups are in a unique situation. Simply being who they are inspires people to commit violence against them. Additionally, if we were all to have the equal protection Rep. Smith suggests, we would have to eliminate all hate crime laws covering race, religion and national origin. Doing away with hate crime laws altogether would be an injustice, and members of both parties would likely oppose it. So these groups are and will continue to rightfully be protected, but the still-unaccepted sexual minorities are not.

Perhaps the weakest argument against the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Protection Act is the one put forth by the religious right – that this act would take away their right to free speech and hold them accountable for speaking out against homosexuality. ... What’s important is the fact that the proposed act would in no way take away their right to free speech, as it covers only physical acts against these groups. Perhaps the religious right should also consider that they, under current hate crime laws, are protected against hate-related attacks, and reflect on what it might be like if that were to be taken away from them.
Much more:
http://www.northstarwriters.com/jv003.htm

Everybody understand now?

Simply put, the people who are currently protected are the ones enjoying "special" rights -- or, as I like to think of them: privileges.

But, hey, I'm willing to give up equal protection under the law if you are too.

Now, if you're against all hate-crime laws, then I'll give you credit for being consistent. If you're really being consistent.

I hope you realize that by railing against hate-crime laws, you're on quite a slippery slope. If you believe that there should be no protections in place for minorities against crimes committed on the sole basis of who we are, then be prepared to explain why we shouldn't eliminate all "special rights" laws, such as protection in housing and employment.

And don't give me any of that "thought crime" malarkey. If you really believe that there's no way to determine that a gay -- or black, or Muslim -- person was beaten or murdered on the basis of who they are, then how can there be any way to determine that the reason a person was fired, or evicted, for the same "thought crime"?

In which case, I expect everyone against hate-crime laws must want to see both the Fair Housing Act and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act repealed immediately. There's no way to justify support for either if you oppose the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Act.

Heck, you may as well overturn the Americans with Disabilities Act. After all, don't all those wheelchair ramps and court sign-language interpreters represent "special" rights?
Discuss (83 comments) | Recommend (32 votes)

Full Thread

[Indi Guy]

233. Buffy, you've actually changed my mind. Thank you...

I guess I was in the dark about hate-crime laws. Now I see that they're not meant to give preferential treatment -- they're designed to be a deterrent for people who are inclined to persecute groups of people just because they live and breathe.

This makes perfect sense to me. Thanks again.

[NMMNG]

235. Thank you

:hi:

[Kucinich4America]

238. Cheney DOES have a gay daughter

She grew up in Wyoming. What happened to Matt Shepard could have happened to Mary.

Dick STILL hasn't done shit.

[phrigndumass]

137. Thanks readmoreoften!

I'd recommend, but I'm a newbie and my rec button doesn't work yet. Copied a link to your post to everyone in my family, though.

[readmoreoften]

160. Welcome to DU! /nt

[xchrom]

141. recommend.

[ClayZ]

142. K and R

[reggie the dog]

145. As an adult I have never understood

why some people care about who other adults are falling in love with, and having sex with. Of course I think a woman should be able to have as many husbands or wives as she wants, and that a man can have as many husbands or wives as he wants, so long as all concerned parties are of legal age and have knowledge about any other people their potential spouses are married to.

[Tektonik]

162. kick

:thumbsup:

[nvme]

163. hey world

well now go off and feel good about yourself and empathize. But the images never stop

[progressoid]

166. K&R

:grouphug: :cry: :grouphug:

[iamahaingttta]

167. Wow...

Very powerful.

[Richard Steele]

168. K&R

[Midlodemocrat]

174. What a fantastic, yet awful post.

How can we allow this to continue? :cry:

Thanks, RMO. :hug:

[rocktivity]

179. There has GOT to be someone among us who can make a Web video out of this

complete with captions and right theme song.

:cry:
rocknation

[readmoreoften]

181. About 20 more images. They're easy to find.

the pride attacks in moscow


skinheads and religious folks join hands in Moscow
http://www.gayrussia.ru/images/AttackClubAFPBig.bmp

attack in Massachussets



Jewish protester stabs three in Jerusalem Pride Parade 2005



ACLU Sues West Virginia Police Chief Who Blocked Life-Saving Measures for Gay Heart Attack Victim Assumed to Be HIV Positive (3/2/2006, aclu.org)


Gay sailor in Britain


I'm almost sympathetic for these fascist skinheads in Sweden. I mean, talk about being a MINORITY...






http://www.washblade.com/2006/4-28/news/police/jefferson,%20dick.jpg





http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ContentResources/653.$plit/C_17_Articles_236162_BodyWeb_Detail_0_Image.jpg

[Sugar Smack]

183. GOD.

God, this world is fucked up.

[Behind the Aegis]

207. r 190!

Well done! Way to put a face on the violence we face. If there were only a way to place a "face" on the shit we tolerate on a daily (or almost daily) basis!

[proReality]

184. K&R n/t

[defendandprotect]

185. I love it when people don't get that discrimination involves intimidation and usually VIOLENCE == !!

Where there is discrimination, there is of course violence ---
sometimes hidden --- but there is no oppression without violence.

Also, members of those churches where there is still the preaching of intolerance for homosexuals from their pulpits have to understand that if they support such churches they are aiding and abetting this hatred for homosexuals and the abuse of homosexuals.

It's up to all of us to make the world change -- especially in regard to human rights for all!

[MuseRider]

186. Just now saw this.

K&R

[pauldg0]

191. I'm glad I say this.........

John Edwards Respects people.

He looks directly into everyone's eyes when talking to them.......... EVERYBODY........EVERYBODY!!!

HE DOES THIS!!!! He looks into everybody's eyes when he talks to them. He even gets on his knees to talk to young children. We need John Edwards.

Get your word around New England and especially, NEW HAMPSHIRE..........

This man has to get all of your votes....spread the word.

I think this is an illegal election when the press is pulling the strings....John Edwards is the best candidate. He gets the most out of very little money he has. We need someone to lead this country who can get the most of every dollar we are taxed....He will be a great leader.

[Christa]

196. I wish I could R this a thousand times

great post

C

[slipslidingaway]

197. K&R :( n/t

[lightningandsnow]

198. K&R - and it made me think of this:

Thank you so much for posting it. It's difficult to read but it needs to be said.

It made me think of the poem, 'Scared to Death' by Julia Serano:

http://www.juliaserano.com/eitheror.html#scared


but i remind myself
that there are many ways to die
and the slowest
most torturous one of all
is being scared to death
because being intimidated into silence
is like being suffocated
in both cases
someone else is taking your last breath

[fascisthunter]

200. Homophobes: Pay Attention

homosexuals may be a minority but those who are willing to attack gays are a smaller minority and most of us gay or non-gay will not put up with it anymore. You will need to go through this straight person to get to any of them!

[ThatsMyBarack]

201. Must kick because....

....that anti-gay-marriage proposal pisses me off something fierce! :grr:

[Cronus Protagonist]

202. Now is not the time - we must hold on and wait for our time to come

After all, we wouldn't want to spoil the general election, would we?

:sarcasm:

[readmoreoften]

204. I think 2054 will be the year. It should be safe to support us by then. /nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

206. Yeah, unless there's an election that year n/t

[reggie the dog]

211. perhaps they will legalize grass by

2070, then I won't be a criminal anymore.....but hey, I do choose to be a criminal, you gay folks are just gay, like I am just hetero there is no choice about it.

[sarcasmo]

209. Can we blame the Bible and the hate preachers for this stupidity?

[NMMNG]

224. Them, among others of their ilk.

:puke:

[Didereaux]

212. ahhhh, but Danny McClurkin and his demographic are good people! sheesh!

[Raster]

214. This is why Senator Obama allowing McClosetCase to MC an official Obama event

is a big fucking deal! You don't codemn homophobia on one hand and then sanction it on another! By their actions, you shall know them!
Wake up America:kick:Queer and damned proud of it!

[Raster]

225. Kick!

:kick:

[Counciltucky]

213. Go to www.godhatesshrimp.com

Go to the links and start clicking around on all of them for solid and witty rationales behind allowing gay rights.

K&R

[DemoTex]

215. Sean Kennedy (April 8, 1987 – May 16, 2007) - Greenville, SC

Sean W. Kennedy murdered in Greenville, SC, on 5/16/2007 because he was gay.

[krispos42]

216. It is appallingly obvious that homosexuals in this country need to arm themselves

Until the gay-bashers evolve, which is, fortunately, happening, homosexuals will continue to be hunted by roving packs of regressive bigots looking for a chance to feel superior to somebody.

Sadly, many homosexuals live in states that do not allow the legal carrying of concealed arms.

[caseycoon]

217. K&R I am stunned.

There are so many things I want to say, but just know that I am with you 100%
I believe in full equality for all. That is the only thing I can accept.
We are all brothers & sisters.

[Fire Walk With Me]

219. Kick for peace and understanding.

[Blue_Tires]

221. ttt

[nam78_two]

222. K&R-saddening, sickening.....

:-(

[riderinthestorm]

226. Cannot be kicked and recommended enough!

Who are we as a society that we tolerate this kind of violence towards our own? I am sickened and saddened at the bigotry. It's long past time to destroy this hatefulness.... Thanks for the timely reminder here at the beginning of the new year - a time when we historically and traditionally evaluate our progress as a nation, a culture, a society.

Another K and double R!

[Tinksrival]

227. Post for Andrew

RIP, Andrew Anthos
by: Hazen Pingree
Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 16:35:57 PM EST

UPDATE by Hazen: read Michigan's ethnic intimidation (hate crimes) law here.

Some people make a life's crusade out of lobbying against abortion. For others it's the environment...or the war. For Andrew Anthos, his mission in life was to light the Michigan State Capitol dome with red, white and blue floodlights for one or two nights out of the year.

I first encountered Andrew back in about 1994 at the Michigan Democratic Convention. As I recall we were at the end of a caucus meeting, when this rather odd looking character with orange hair and a high-piched voice came into the room and asked to be heard.

This character was Andrew Anthos.

As the organizers (and the caucus participants) looked on in irritation, Andrew proceeded to tell us all at great length about his plan to "light the dooome!!!" (I wish I could describe his cadence here in text, but it's simply not possible) and how he wanted to do it for the people of Michigan. As part of his presentation, Andrew held up different newspaper clippings of articles about his quest. That dude was passionate. Passionate as Martin Luther King. Only difference was, Martin Luther King was trying to end racism and segregation. Andrew wanted to shine pretty colored lights on the statehouse.

I have to admit I was among those in the room rolling my eyes. I think I generally have a somewhat higher tolerance for the bizarre than a lot of people. But even to me, Andrew seemed a bit over the top. And when the meeting ended, I recall that I chose my exit carefully to avoid being buttonholed by him.

From time to time, I would see Andrew out in front of the Capitol with a sign: "honk to light the dome." I think I may have honked once or twice - but I can't say for sure.

Every now and then, I'd see Andrew mentioned in the newspaper. For reporters working at the Capitol, the quirky "light the dome" guy was a perennial story right at their doorstep. In 2003, Michigan Public Radio produced this sound piece of Andrew waxing poetic about how great it would be to have a multi-colored dome.

According to published reports, Andrew didn't even live in Lansing. He lived in Detroit.

These same reports say that Andrew was riding the bus home last week when a man apparently questioned him about whether he was gay, which he was.

This person followed Andrew off the bus at the next stop and proceeded to beat him senseless with a metal pipe.

Yesterday, as a result of injuries sustained in the attack, Andrew died.

(More below the fold...)
Hazen Pingree :: RIP, Andrew Anthos
Why?

Because he was a little odd. Because he didn't look or sound like other people.

And because he was gay.

They say they haven't found the sick bastard who attacked Andrew. If or when they do, I hope he'll be charged with murder - and whatever else they can throw at him - and sent away for a very, very long time.

But the person who did this will NOT be charged with a hate crime.

Why?

Because, unlike 20 other U.S. States, Michigan does not consider attacking people for being gay to be worthy of inclusion in our hate crimes statute.

This is the state we live in. This is the place where we amend our Constitution specifically to make it legally OK to discriminate against gays, lesbians, or transgenered people. And this is the place where a 72-year old man, who dreamed of nothing more than shining multi-colored lights on the Capitol dome - was brutally beaten to death on the streets of our largest city - just for being gay.

And we wonder why people don't want to stay here.

I hope that someday - perhaps on the day the Legislature votes to classify attacks like the one that killed Andrew Anthos as a hate crime - somebody decides to light the dome.
Light it just as the man with the orange hair and the high-pitched voice always wanted - in brilliant shades of red, white, and blue.

"If the dome is lit, I will not be here for the dedication, because the dome should be the star of the evening. The light should shine on the dome...

...I'm not going to give up. I mean, it's painful...and there are times that...

But I said that if I give up I will have left nothing to my home state and to the people of my home state.

It's a way of trying to bring some light into the world."

-Andrew Anthos
Quoted on Michigan Public Radio, 2003

[LaStrega]

228. wish I would have seen this sooner ...

now it's too late to recommend harrumph.

I am so flippin' proud to say I raised my daughter KNOWING not only that it's alright to be gay, but that it's alright if SHE'S gay. (She's bi.)

:kick:

[Raster]

230. 196 Recommends is Not Enough!

But it will have to do. Only you can defeat homophobia. We are your sons, your daughters, your brothers, your sisters, your mothers, your fathers, your family, your friends. We are male and female, old and young, black, red, brown, yellow and white. We are in every country and every culture. We did not ask to be born with our sexuality--gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered. We are what we are. We only want to live our lives in peace and happiness, the same as you. When you fear us, you fear yourselves. When you hurt us, you hurt yourselves.

Wake up America!:kick:

[JackBeck]

231. And another:

2nd man guilty in fatal beating

Victim, 32, was from Crothersville


http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080104/NEWS02/801040403

[fightthegoodfightnow]

232. NEVER FORGET

Justice is on our side and so is the truth.

We will prevail and our stories will be told.

Face the horror and take strength from the sacrifices so many brothers and sisters have faced.

They will not be forgotten.

[Indi Guy]

236. readmoreoften - I hope this thread was as educating to some others as it was to me...

Keep up the good fight (I know you will, and I will as well).

Peace

[backscatter712]

237. This is why I own guns.

I will not initiate a fight with them, but I will finish it.

Maybe I'll go down myself, but I will not go down easily, and I will not go down alone. And I don't care if the fuckers assaulting me are wearing white sheets and hoods, crosses, American flags, police badges, military uniforms or Blackwater pawprints. Violate my rights, and I will kill you.

If savagery is the only thing they will comprehend or understand, then I say we give it to them. Maybe after they bury their own will they start to understand our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH!

[Indi Guy]

240. I'm prepared to kill only in self defense (reluluctantly)...

Should someone violate my right to liberty & pursuit of happiness (without threating my life) -- if I kill him, I reduce myself to the level of my perceived enemy.

This understood, stick to your guns. As you well know, you may need them.

[College Liberal]

239. Jesus will avenge us

Thank you for posting this. Keep fighting.....

[Indi Guy]

241. I'm not a Bible thumper, but your point reminds me of this quote...

"The meek shall inherit the earth."

[and-justice-for-all]

242. Being Gay is not easy...

I have been in a relationship for 13 years and I have to say that we have never encountered any violence towards us, words being tossed at me from a car at 40mph does not count and that has only happened a couple of times.

We carry firearms, one of is always armed and my partner is a cop so that kind of helps. If someone starts some shit with us their going to be a big surprise.

Fight back and do it twice as hard. Take a martial art class or get a gun permit.

[wiley]

244. Thanks again. Right wing fascists sy they are entitled by God to such violence

Most DUers could care less.

[farmboy]

245. Thank you for posting this. McClurkin and his supporters can go to hell.

[farmboy]

246. Kick!

[Skittles]

247. longtime human rights for gays supporter here

always with y'all; always will be

[Horse with no Name]

248. Nicholus Ray West

http://www.ntimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=5125

Thirteen years ago, on November 30, 1993, three thugs met Nicholus Ray West at a Tyler Texas park, kidnapped him, robbed him, stripped him, beat him, and drove him 20 miles away to a desolate road.

They shot him nine times and left him to die, which he did. The gang admitted they killed him because he was gay. The police apprehended the gang and their leader, Donald Aldrich, received a death sentence.

This outrageous event was a source of conversation all over Texas for months. East Texan gay and lesbian activists, in conjunction with the Dallas Gay and Lesbian Alliance, held a memorial and "Stop the Hate Rally" in Tyler on December 11, 1993 getting national media coverage.

It's now 13 years later and where are we? Wonderfully, there is now a campus Gay-Straight Alliance at the University of Texas at Tyler, the school has a written policy prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, and gay, lesbian, and bisexual people are far more wiling to be open about their sexuality than before.

[Indi Guy]

249. In Texas?...

Incredible!

I guess, the higher the weed -- the taller the flower.

[knight_of_the_star]

250. K&R

Lest we forget