If Dennis Kucinich looked like John Edwards, would he be the Democratic front runner?

[Quixote1818]

Or at least be doing much better than his is?

I think so and it's a shame!


On Edit: I was once with my Boss who was not familiar with any of the candidates and he saw Dennis and had this disgusted look on his face and said "Who is that freak?"

This is what I am talking about. He probably wouldn't be the front runner but he would be doing much better than he is. It's encouraging to see how well he does on the DU polls but unfortunately the Media ignores him because he doesn't look like a movie star.

[liberalnurse]

1. That is soooo

unrealistic.

[LSK]

4. why?

[liberalnurse]

15. Dennis is quite attractive as is

John Edwards....so it does not register on the scale of reasons not elect one as President.

[NoPasaran]

6. After all

John Edwards looks like John Edwards, and even he isn't thr frontrunner!

[Quixote1818]

12. Thats part of my point

I know people who like Edwards just because he is good looking and not for where he stands on the issues. I don't know if Edwards would be doing so well if he didn't look like a movie star.

[NoPasaran]

28. Maybe people don't like Kucinich

Because they think he's a nut.

[Quixote1818]

30. Why is he coming in 2nd on the most recent DU poll then?

Are you suggesting those voting for Dennis are that stupid?

[MonkeyFunk]

32. A DU poll

is not reflective of the nation's feelings.

Kucinich couldn't break 3% among democratic primary voters last time. That's a much more relevant statistic.

[NoPasaran]

I believe it shows there are lots of crazy people on DU

I'm not suggesting that they're stupid, but they may have a weak grasp of reality.

[Quixote1818]

56. Yes, you are correct

The 51% of Americans who gave us George Bush have a much better grasp on reality.

[NoPasaran]

60. Considering some of the Kucinich people I know personally

I am forced to agree with you.

[libnnc]

77. Why would people think he was a nut?

Maybe I've missed something.

What do you know about him that I don't?

[last_texas_dem]

43. I think he loses some points for it too, though

Some people take him less seriously because many consider him to be attractive; like, since he's good-looking he has to be an airhead or a "pretty boy" and shouldn't be given serious consideration as a Presidential candidate. Probably not as many as hold Kucinich's looks against him, though which is a shame as well. My point, though, is just that I don't think Edwards being considered attractive is necessarily all that much of an asset for him.

[LSK]

14. because of his IWR vote

[NoPasaran]

36. IWR doesn't seem to have hurt Hillary Clinton much

In the real world, anyway.

[FARAFIELD]

45. Yep, AND if my uncle

was a woman she would be my aunt

[robcon]

2. Not a chance.

Department of Peace = looney tunes.

[John Q. Citizen]

13. How so?

[Benhurst]

22. Yeah, Benjamin Rush and George Washington. There's a real

pair of lunatics for you.

Thank God we've matured since the days of the Founding Fathers and have evolved into The World's Only Superpower, otherwise the Republic would have perished and we'd be living under the rule of an unelected despot.

[Beelzebud]

67. All we are saying... Is give WAR a chance!

All we are saying... Is give WAR a chance!

[Radical Activist]

3. No.

Dennis stil can't put together a decent campaign.
Dennis is running an issue campaign, which is fine, but you don't win elections that way.

[John Q. Citizen]

27. I think Dennis can do well since he's the only consistant anti-war candidate and

he's got the only single payer fee for service plan on the table.

While the top tier divide the status quo votes among them, Dennis can get the progressive activist vote and end up in good shape at the convention.

[Radical Activist]

37. Obama was also consistently against the war

and since he has a better shot at winning, by attracting moderates with a progressive message, I think he'll get a large portion of the activist vote who are interested in electing someone.

Single-payer is good but a lot more work needs to be done to educate the public about what it is and how it would work. People still think it means socialist, government run medicine.

[John Q. Citizen]

44. Obama I like, but I don't like that he's voted to fund the war he's against. That's

not consistent

As for single payer, much more people know that the insurence industry is scum than believe they provide a critical service vis a vis healthcare.

I know. I spent 3 years, 50 weeks a year. 5 nights a week, knocking on doors and raising money and consciousness for single payer fee for service heath insurance in 7 States.

Believe me when I tell you; people aren't stupid, and people know we are being ripped off.

[Truthseeker013]

5. If Dennis Kucinich looked like John Edwards, would he be the Democratic front runner?

liberalnurse, I disagree. A few years ago, there was some backtalk going on about convincing Robert Reich, President Clinton's former Secretary of Labor, into running. He said himself that no one would elect a short guy as POTUS. Same goes for anyone non-beautiful. I know, you point at the guy at 1600 Penn Ave Sw right now. Fools casting ballots don't count.

[Bucky]

10. "you point at the guy at 1600 Penn Ave right now"

Bush actually is physically handsome. If you see ugly, it's because you're looking below the surface. Which is somewhat the OP's main point--most people don't.

[Lisa]

29. in 2000, one commentator pointed out that Bush was actually in the right range ...

... for a politician -- not the best-looking guy in the room, but maybe the 3rd or 4th? The rationale being that he wasn't so dazzlingly-handsome as to create jealousy, or the suspicion that he was either vain or an airhead. (Of course, this is assuming that he isn't there long enough so that people hear him say something foolish or mean-spirited, and react to that instead.)

[Benhurst]

34. Third or fourth best looking man in a room? I should hope it was

a small room with only four or five people in it.

Bush accomplishes being both vain and an airhead while looking like shit.
What a Man. What a leader. What a dump.

[Lisa]

39. my thoughts exactly, Benhurst!

My personal feeling is that after experiencing his personality for a few seconds, most folks would do a mental readjustment of how "handsome" he really is -- downwards.

Another writer commented that when Bush is in the room, "it's impossible to remember that he's actually there" -- not what one would say if he's even moderately good-looking. In any case, there are plenty of people who consider themselves to be downright ugly, but who are way nicer and more interesting than Bush ... I'm dating one, actually! And no way would I want to trade with Laura.

[Mandate My Ass]

7. No

A certain faction of the party leadership would not have it. He could walk on water and they'd ignore it or act like it was something shameful. It would be the "Dean scream" all over again. Progressives need not apply.

[Bluebear]

8. If John Edwards looked like John Edwards, would be the Democratic front runner?

Oh, he does and he isn't, sorry.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. LOL

good point, bluebear!

[Quixote1818]

16. See my post #12

Would Edwards be doing as good as he is doing if he didn't look like a movie star?

Probably not!

[LSK]

18. ok, lets just ignore issues then

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

24. ?? Who wants to "ignore issues"?

[LSK]

25. you cant use the Edwards analogy because he does not have Kucinichs record

The question is if someone with the record of Kucinich looked like Edwards.

[Bluebear]

33. OK then

[emulatorloo]

11. Wingnuts would say he was "too pretty" and compare him to the "Breck Girl"

don't you remember 2004 campaign?

[tritsofme]

17. Nope.

His views are not the mainstream of the party, despite what anyone here would like to believe.

[Greyhound]

19. I think there is little doubt that his lack of photographic appeal is a handicap

and his belief that average amerikans want to hear about issues and solutions is still probably wrong. But I'm tired of voting for, as the Leo McGarry character put it, "the lesser of who gives a damn", and will support the best candidate for the job until he either wins or is no longer a candidate.

The only alternative I see is to just ignore the whole thing and let the country self-destruct as it seems to be determined to do. At some point things will get so bad that the sheeple will wake up, maybe.:shrug:

[judaspriestess]

20. double post sorry!

[Quixote1818]

23. I guarantee you that James Madison would never be elected president

today in our image driven media. The guy was quiet, short and not great looking. He would get smoked yet Madison was absolutely brilliant and wrote most of the constitution!

[judaspriestess]

I don't know if he would be the front runner

but didn't the late Paul Tsongas have the same issue? Wasn't he seen as not 'tough enough' because of his stature. We are dealing with ignorant people in this country who are concerned about having a beer with the president than what a president can do for this country.

[judaspriestess]

21. ok, dupe post again sorry

[leftofthedial]

26. he'd already be President

[kittykitty]

31. You're absolutely right! I think the media has to be bombarded with demands that they include

Dennis when mentioning Democratic candidates. They completely dismiss him. They ignore him. And HE HAS A PLAN!

If you ever watch C-Span in the morning, when Congress opens for one-minute speeches, Dennis is almost always there to give a short speech on a variety of issues. Who else does that? He is a bigger man than most.
Edit for punctuation

[MonkeyFunk]

35. there are dozens of people

running for President, from dozens of various political parties. The media doesn't have to give them all equal time.

If Kucinich were polling well, he'd get attention. But right now the media realize that he has no chance to be the nominee.

[kittykitty]

40. Catch 22. He doesn't poll well because he doesn't get the media attention.

[MonkeyFunk]

57. I disagree

Howard Dean didn't get much media attention when he started running. It was when he started to raise money, poll well and get good endorsements that he started getting media attention.

If Kucinich did those things, he'd get coverage.

[Quixote1818]

61. Dean got attention because he BLASTED Bush on a regular basis

He was great for ratings!

[MonkeyFunk]

68. then Kucinich should do something

to get himself in the news.

The media don't just give you time because you're running for President.

[Quixote1818]

69. I agree

There are a lot of things Kucinich could do to call attention to himself and his message. He should dress up as Anna Nicole or something funny to charm the media.

[MonkeyFunk]

70. well which is it?

You say Dean got coverage for bashing Bush (I disagree with your assessment - lots of people bash Bush. Dean was actually getting money and rising in the polls), but then you seem to think that only outlandish antics would get Kucinich coverage.

Do you agree that the media don't (nor are obligated) to give people media time just because they say they're running for President?

Doesn't it make sense that Kucinich, and anybody else, should actually do something newsworthy to be in the news?

[Quixote1818]

72. There are all kinds of factors involved here

Someone like Obama gets media attention because he is charismatic and people just like him; he has movie star charisma. Dean got attention because he had a good internet grassroots following, he was good looking, charismatic and he attacked Bush relentlessly (that got him grass roots support and media attention). Hillary gets media attention because she is Bill Clinton's wife and because the right wing hates her. Edwards got attention (in 04)because he is charismatic and good looking. He does OK now because he was the VP choice and is good looking. Bill Richardson doesn't get much attention even when he makes sharp cutting comments because he is over weight and not great looking. Chris Dodd is constantly saying smart things but he is ignored because he is average looking. Dennis Kucinich is doing a wonderful talk today but the press won't cover it because he is not a movie star.

Yes, Kucinich would have to do something outlandish to get the media's attention since they won't cover him.

[MonkeyFunk]

73. I maintain

that if he were polling up there with Clinton and Obama, he'd get media attention.

[Quixote1818]

74. Obama was getting media attention before he was even thinking about running

Not because he was polling well. Sure Kucinich would be getting media attention if he was polling well but he will never poll well because he needs free advertising and media attention FIRST.

If James Madison were running for president today he would get smoked! He was short, quiet, not very charismatic and average looking. We live in a visual, vanity driven media world today and brilliant men like Madison, who wrote the constitution, would never be elected today.

The only reason Jimmy Carter won was because the country was looking for someone who seemed honest after Nixon's corruption.

The reason I started this thread was because Kucinich was coming in second place on a DU poll. DU people are very well informed and vote on the issues. If they thought Kucinich could win I think he would even be winning the DU poll.

[MonkeyFunk]

75. And Kucinich did very well

in polls here in 2004, yet got around 3% of the Democratic primary vote.

DU is not the real world.

[Quixote1818]

76. Yes, the real world votes for people like our current president. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

78. well

roughly half of them did. What's your point?

[Danieljay]

38. no, but he'd get more press if he looked like Anna Nicole or Brittany Spears...n/t

[Benhurst]

41. Ah, the Giuliani strategy ...

Brilliant!

:rofl:

[Danieljay]

42. There it is.... the first drag queen president! Could you imagine if a Dem had done it?

(that we know of, ya think W slips on a pair of pickles' underwear occassionally? )

[Benhurst]

50. Can you imagine what the corporate news whores would have done to Clinton

if he had allowed a male prostitute to spend 19 overnights at the White House? And not even a discrete prostitute, but one who advertised his "services" on the Internet.

[Lena inRI]

46. Your question is ass-backwards. . .

If John Edwards had Dennis Kucinich's character, would he be the Democratic front runner?

Dennis can only be Dennis. . .one of a kind. . .no smoke 'n mirrors. . .take it or leave it.

I's like 'em that way. . .

So com'on Masters GORE and CLARK, will you enter this Presidential race already???

GORE = CLARK 2008

:bounce: :loveya: :bounce: :loveya: :bounce: :kick:

[Atman]

47. Abso-fucking-lutely

First of all, I am a DK fan big-time. I voted for him in the primaries even. And when I did, I posted about why he'll never win the presidency...because he's a short, funny-looking geek.

Now, the DU PC police guys can jump all over this, but it is simply fact. Think back to your days in middle school (or "Junior High" as we called it back then), and who got picked for the Dodgeball teams. Dennis K was last in line every time. Admit it. We all know it.

We might think it silly now, from the perspective of adults, but we forget America's mass stupidity at our peril. We're a dumb lot. We might love DK if he only spoke on radio, but too many 'Merkins vote the "Guy I Can Have A Beer With" ticket.

.

[Annces]

48. I am glad he has found a woman who loves him

even if America wants someone with more testosterone or glamour.

[More Than A Feeling]

49. No, the problem is that he's a representative, not a vp, senator, governor, or general.

If he were able to get elected statewide with his positions, he'd be a sensation. Without that cachet and that platform, he's just 1 of 435.

[FrenchieCat]

51. Probably ....cause his platform is better than John Edwards....

and he doesn't have to apologize for his vote everytime he opens his mouth like John Edwards feels he must.

Personally I don't think that John Edwards looks that good...reminds me of a televangelist who has all his hair instead of a toupe.... And someone should tell him to minimize the waves and the blow kisses cause they aren't helping his authenticity factor. He's not appearing to collect an award afterall!

[Catchawave]

62. Where was Clark ?

Thanks for your civility anyhow :shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

63. Clark was at Colgate U. Giving a pre-scheduled speech.....that he couldn't back out of ......

Although he was invited to the forum.

Considering that Obama wasn't there, I doubt Clark hurt himself much...as he got good press in New York instead and it is still so early!

Syracuse Post-Standard, 2/21/07
http://www.syracuse.com/articles/news/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1172052125219400.xml&coll=1
Clark: Economy Key Issue
Wednesday, February 21, 2007
By Sapna Kollali
Staff writer

Despite what the current presidential administration says, terrorism is not the biggest threat facing the United States, retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark told a Colgate University audience Tuesday.

It's the global economy that threatens to leave us behind, he said.

"Our jobs, our economy . . . are liable to be held hostage in the future to China and, to a lesser extent, to India," he said. "If we don't get our house in order our education system, our health care system, our business climate we can't keep up in the competition of the global marketplace."

Getting our house in order includes bringing home U.S. troops from Iraq and coming up with a better, diplomacy-based strategy for the Middle East, Clark told a standing-room-only audience in Colgate Memorial Chapel.

Clark, a 2004 presidential candidate who now owns an investment banking firm, has been a frequent opponent of the Iraq war. He said the nation lost its military strategy after the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union, and has not yet found an adequate replacement strategy.

During a question-and- answer session following his 45-minute speech about U.S. military history and his proposed solution for the Iraq war, he addressed a question on the minds of many his political aspirations for another attempt at the White House.

"I'm not here looking for anyone to jump up with a Clark '08 sign," he said, later adding, "I haven't said I won't run. I haven't said it either way."

But Tuesday's visit bore a strong resemblance to a campaign stop from the references to "possible competitors" in a future political run to his platform on a host of foreign and domestic policy issues, including campaign finance, universal pre-kindergarten, strengthening university-business collaborations and amending current immigration laws.

He even entered the chapel at 8 p.m. from the end of the left-center aisle and made his way to the stage shaking hands with students and faculty in the audience, waving to the balconies before sitting in the front pew.

This Colgate visit wasn't Clark's first trip to Central New York. He most recently visited the area during a campaign rally in November for local Democratic congressional candidate Dan Maffei. In May, he was Cornell University's commencement speaker.

Utica Observer-Dispatch
Clark critiques Bush strategy in Iraq
Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007

HAMILTON — The Bush Administration's strategy in Iraq is wrong because it's short on dialogue and diplomacy and heavy on violence, Retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark said Tuesday night at Colgate University.

"You cannot defeat al Qaida with military force alone," Clark said, adding that invasions, bombings and shoot-outs create terrorist-sympathizers and worsen the problem.

Clark, a former Democratic presidential candidate, said he set out to give a nonpartisan speech at Colgate, relying on history — and his experience in the Pentagon — to explain why he believes the United States is failing in Iraq.

The United States should focus on strengthening American ideals, protecting constitutional rights and sticking with the Geneva Conventions while simultaneously reaching out to countries and starting conversations.

"The United States must talk with nations it disagrees with," he said.

Since the end of the Cold War, the United States has lacked a cohesive strategy for handling foreign policy issues, Clark said. Throughout the 1990s, decision-makers handled one crisis at a time, from the civil war in Rwanda to the war in Kosovo. Politicians and leaders later resorted to preemptive, unilateral warfare in the absence of a proven, reliable strategy, Clark said.

Clark also said he felt the rapid growth of China and India posed more of a threat to the United States' economic independence and security than terrorism or strife in the Middle East.

"I was impressed with the way he put it together," Altavilla said.

http://www.uticaod.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070221/NEWS/702210329/1001

the-chuck 2/21/07
http://www.the-chuck.com/?p=150#comment-227
Yay for Wesley Clark!

Wesley Clark came to Colgate this evening. He spoke for about fifty minutes without anything written, and in short, he was awesome. He’s clearly an intelligent man with an incredible knowledge of American military history from the last hundred years. Basically, he said that the lack of a current American military strategy came from the end of the Cold War, since so much action had been based on it. He spoke of neoconservatism and their desire to remodel the Middle East, and talked about schools, the economy, and so much more. It almost sounded like a speech when one would run for office, but he kept saying that he doesn’t have the intention to run - which is a damn shame, as he’d get my vote.

But more than anything, though, he was charismatic, funny, and everything he said was really interesting. With the exception of a handful of conservatives, he received a standing ovation. I had to run off to my radio show, but Lydia got a book signed for me. I would’ve loved to stick around and talk to him. Ah, well. Wes, if you’re reading this: thank you so much for coming.

[Catchawave]

64. Thanks. n/t

[Catchawave]

52. I watched this entire event *live* and I've never been so proud

to be a Dem than I was today. They all spoke for me today.

I liked this forum better than the lame "debate" forums of past elections. Especially among one party.

Let's go get those Republicans :toast:

[WI_DEM]

53. No, I don't think so. Why? because history shows very few instances where a house member

goes from representing a congressional district to president of the United States. I've often believed that if DK had run for Senator or Governor of Ohio and won, he would be in a better position. Voters and the media tend to take Senators and Governors more seriously for the presidential nomination. What if DK had run for Governor of Ohio in '06 and won? he might in fact be taken more seriously because he would be the governor of a key state.

p.s.
And this is why I think ultimately Rudy will fail. There has never been anybody who has gone from Mayor to President, even if he was Mayor of NYC and he uses 9/11 as a political tool.

[JackRiddler]

54. Not long as money & corporate media decide who the "frontrunner" is...

Are you saying they couldn't heave up an ugly person, or someone who looks elfish? Please. The money decides. (I don't think Kerry got it for his looks, either.)

[senseandsensibility]

55. A freak?

That's a little over the top, isn't it? He doesn't look like a freak. He may be small in stature, but he is very average looking. I suppose that to some he doesn't convey an image of rugged masculinity, mainly because of his size, but he certainly isn't ugly.

[WI_DEM]

58. I wonder how a "freak" got such a hot looking wife?

maybe personality and integrity and honesty have more to do with it than looks with some people.

[senseandsensibility]

59. What a concept.

:)

[Czolgosz]

65. Edwards and Kucinich are my two favorite candidates (because they are the two most progressive

candidates in the race).

I have been in the audience and seen both give their stump speeches. Edwards gives a much better stump speech.

Also, candidacies should not rise or fall on such skills, but Edwards is also a much better fundraiser.

Finally, candidacies should not rise or fall on spouses, but Edwards is married to the best "better half" since Eleanor Roosevelt and Kucinich isn't.

I'd love to see Kucinich as president, and I'd love to see Edwards as president, but I think there are factors beyond the physical appearance of the two candidates which makes the latter possibility more likely.

[geek tragedy]

66. Dude tried to pass legislation bannign CHEMTRAILS. eom

[gorbal]

71. He doesn't need Edwards looks

He needs Obama's charisma. I love the guy, okay, but he needs to show us he can win.