"where dolphins are dying by the score"

[donsu]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA08Ak02.html



Dolphins: Iran's weapon against the US?

--
A US court's decision to place rigid limits on the US Navy's use of mid-frequency sonar off the coast of southern California is aimed to protect whales and dolphins. Should the navy be forced to similarly curtail its activities elsewhere, its global operations will be severely affected. This will especially be the case in the Persian Gulf, where the US containment of Iran involves sonic monitoring of its Russian-made submarines, and where dolphins are dying by the score.
--



The Pentagon, which has in the past tried to place its naval operations above US laws, has suffered a court reversal that is bound to have repercussions well beyond the California coast and impact the US Navy's global operations.

A federal judge in Los Angeles has imposed rigid limits on the navy's use of mid-frequency sonar off the coast of southern California. The sonar is suspected of causing disruption to whale and dolphin navigation systems.

-snip-

The court's finding, with "near certainty" that US naval sonic "mitigation schemes" are "grossly inadequate to protect marine mammals from debilitating levels of sonar exposure", has direct bearing on the navy's operations in the Persian Gulf, which include active sonar training "under actual conditions".

-snip-

Despite the US's heavy energy dependence on the Persian Gulf and the extensive use of this waterway by US naval ships, there is no US initiative to help mitigate the growing ecological problems affecting the gulf's biodiversity and marine mammals' eco-systems.

-snip-

The US Navy's use of high intensity, mid-frequency sonar is probably behind the alarming rate of self-stranding dolphins and whales on Iran's beaches. The Persian Gulf is the habitat of 40 different types of dolphins and the largest living mammal, the blue whale, and both species are endangered by US sonar activities. These activities, per the US court ruling, "cause irreparable harm" to marine mammals. Many more mammals may have died in deeper waters and, in the absence of any systematic study and data, we may be witnessing only the tip of the iceberg with beached mammals.

-snip-

From the prism of international (environmental) law, US naval activities that harm the national resources of Iran and other Persian Gulf countries are prime for litigation in national and international courts. This is not to mention the pollution caused by the shipping noise as well as "military solid wastes" connected to explosives, munition fragments and other toxic material dumped into the Persian Gulf each time the US Navy holds a maneuver.
-snip-
---------------------------


america, polluting, damaging, killing, where ever it goes

[Nihil]

1. K & R (n/t)

:-(

[I work for workers]

2. Sound naval defense > dolphins

The oceans a pretty big place. I'm sure they will manage.

[earth mom]

5. Bullsh*t. The oceans are over fished. Proving that they aren't "so big" after all.

Your attitude is an utter disgrace and so is what is happening to the dolphins. :puke:

[I work for workers]

8. I like dolphins as much as the next person, but if I have to pick between

confused dolphins and secure naval defense, I pick the latter every time. However this is largely a non issue, as the Navy already goes out of its way to protect marine mammals:

http://www.whalesandsonar.navy.mil/documents/Sonar_Marine_Mammal%20_Fact_Sheet.pdf

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. Why do you need sonar when you could use dead dolphins as an indication

of where the nuclear subs are? I'm just sayin, if I were a Russian, I'd make sure I'd put a few marine biologists on staff.

[DainBramaged]

13. So killing another species is just OK with you?

As long as we can monitor those brown people?:sarcasm:

[I work for workers]

15. Jepordizing our national security to prevent around five dead whales per year is ok with you?

[DainBramaged]

17. Your thin veil of "progressiveness" is transparent

The war and the BFEE world domination plan will end soon. Then you can get back to your GI Joe play set.

http://www.hasbro.com/gijoe/




GI Joe "desktop" background, notice the thinly disguised Cross on the fence. GI Joe, Jesus' buddy.

[I work for workers]

25. A bird hit my winow and died this morning. I'm not about to leave them open.

Cute play set. It's unfortunate that some people believe national defense is a game. I got a laugh out of the subliminal cross joke though.

What Teamsters local are you with?

[NorthernSpy]

32. (you can put netting over problem windows...)

Black netting works best. You can buy it at farm/garden supply stores. You hang it taut and a few inches in front of the pane for best results.

[leftchick]

26. how is the US Navy protecting national security

in the Persian Gulf Waters?

[I work for workers]

28. By protecting international shipping and oil supply.

That has been one of the Navies primary mission for years now. The US Navy is the guarantor of international commerce and energy supplies. One part of that responsibility is protecting the extremely vital Persian Gulf shipping lanes.

[leftchick]

33. getting their oil through the Gulf is a priority for Iran

as much as any other oil producing country. So who is the US protecting whose Oil for again?

[I work for workers]

35. The entire world. Global oil shipping is ensured by the presence of the US Navy.

Many nations don't have our globalized oil sourcing and rely heavily or exclusively on Mid-East oil. The US has taken it upon itself to protect shipping in the Persian Gulf since the Iranian Revolution in order to protect the global supply of oil. We protect Saudi Arabia for the same reason. The first Gulf War was fought to protect oil production. This isn't a big secret, it's an admitted US policy. Considering the state of Iraq today, and the lucrative target oil production and transportation makes for terrorism, I'm happy we do it.

[leftchick]

39. The US has taken it upon itself

nuff said. Saudi Arabia has a pretty nice militaru again thanks to us. Give it a rest. There is NO justification for humans dying for OIL PROFITS!

[Annces]

7. That is not true

And the navy has no right to kill off thousands of dolphins for their war games.

Dead dolphins - Iran - US sonar

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2203846,00.html

[I work for workers]

11. Some facts for you:

Worldwide naval use of active sonar has been correlated with the
stranding of approximately 50 whales during the 10-year period
from 1996-2006. To help put this number in perspective, this
equates to less than 1/4 of 1% of the 3500+ strandings that occur
each year on U.S. shores.

Some claim that U.S. Navy sonar is a major cause of marine
mammal strandings. However, even considering incidents with only
circumstantial evidence of sonar involvement, sonar-related
strandings occur very rarely. Placed into context with the thousands
of strandings that occur every year around the world, it is clear that
many other factors are being ignored.

Approximately 15,000 large ships ply the world’s oceans daily. In
contrast, about 128 U.S. Navy ships and 22 U.S. Navy submarines
are presently underway. About 58% of U.S. Navy ships and all subs
are equipped with active sonar, which is used sparingly (approximately 1% of the time).

Additional Information
www.whalesandsonar.navy.mil
www.onr.navy.mil

[Bonobo]

12. I love it! You're using the US Navy as a source! HA HA HA HA!!!

[I work for workers]

14. Surely that's preferable to just making facts up?

There are no "thousands of dead dolphins" caused by sonar.

[Bonobo]

16. You don't think they umm, have a conflict of interests? Read these:

http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/marine/sonar.asp

Evidence of the harm such a barrage of sound can do began to surface in March 2000, when whales of four different species stranded themselves on beaches in the Bahamas after a U.S. Navy battle group used active sonar in the area. Investigators found that the whales were bleeding internally around their brains and ears. Although the Navy initially denied responsibility, the government's investigation established with virtual certainty that the strandings were caused by its use of active sonar. Since the incident, the area's population of Cuvier's beaked whales has all but disappeared, leading researchers to conclude that they either abandoned their habitat or died at sea.

The Bahamas, it turned out, was only the tip of an iceberg. Additional mass strandings and deaths associated with military activities and active sonar have occurred in Madeira (2000), Greece (1996), the U.S. Virgin Islands (1998, 1999), the Canary Islands (1985, 1988, 1989, 2002, 2004), the northwest coast of the United States (2003) and coastal waters off North Carolina (2005). And in July 2004 researchers uncovered an extraordinary concentration of whale strandings near Yokosuka, a major U.S. Navy base off the Pacific coast of Japan. The Navy's active sonar program appears to be responsible for many more whale strandings than had previously been imagined.

Whales and dolphins threatened by naval sonar, says UN report
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20051125/ai_n15877864

US Navy Admits Its Sonar Killed Whales
http://www.lfas.net/usnavyadmitsitssonarkilledwhales.htm

Dolphins Dead off Zanzibar - Is Navy Sonar to Blame?
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2006/05/02/dolphins_dead_off_zanzibar_is_navy_sonar_to_blame.htm

You see? Captain Watson could have stayed in the US and saved lots of fuel and money by protesting the US govt. too! But then again, it's not as fun as pretending to be a pirate with the salty sea freezing in your manly beard!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. If you're worried about making up facts...

you probably shouldn't be cutting and pasting anything from the Navy.

[Annces]

34. You get your facts from a Navy site

And you don't think they are biased at all in their presentation?

If 150 whales were beached, that is a tip of the iceberg. It is not an exagerration to say 1000.

You definitely sound pro-military.

I could spend the day searching for articles but really there is evidence out there. Try getting some info from a pro-animal site, not the navy.

http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/marine/sonar.asp


http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressreleases/051019.asp

[I work for workers]

36. I'm sure they are. At the same time, if their lies were so outrageous

I'm sure I'd find something about that too. Read their info. The kind of sonar that they admit confuses whales is only on half of their ships, and only used a small percentage of the time. If they detect a marine mammal, they stop using active sonar until they are sufficiently far away.

The Navy does a lot of research on marine mammals. They use trained dolphins and seals in search and rescue missions. There is a guy down thread who was in the Navy, and talked about the preventative measures they take to protect whales.

Yes, I'm pro-military. Yes, it is an exaggeration to go from 50 to 1,000.

[SpiralHawk]

10. Yeah, well planet Earth is pretty big, too. BUT

if you stood at your front door with a cup in your hand, how far would you have to walk before you could find a natural source of clean water where you could dip out a drink?

You may be in some special place, and have a ready answer. But for most people on Planet Earth, they would die of thirst before they found clean water...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

We all know what a threat to freedom Iran's vast sub fleet is.

:eyes:

[NorthernSpy]

29. since when does trying to start a war halfway around the world = "defense"?

:eyes:

[RedCappedBandit]

37. Haha, what ignorant bullshit. nt.

[Bonobo]

3. I can't wait to see how quickly this drops.

No brave captains "at grace with the sea" pretending to be pirates. Just more American hegemony. Ho hum.

[Bonobo]

4. Suggestion: Change thread title to "Japanese whalers kill dolphins"... it will get more attention.

[NorthernSpy]

31. I suspect you're right...

The Japanese kill marine mammals because they like to eat them.

We kill marine mammals because they get in the way of our war machine.


Guess who gets vilified more?

[Annces]

6. Bush administration does not give one care about nature

They care nothing about life or conservation.

[GrahmMan]

18. The Navy goes DRASTICALLY

Out of its way to protect marine life. Sonar is ESSENTIAL to national defense and protection of our forces. Iran is getting better and better at Sub Warfare.

Also most civilian ships have a form of Sonar in their Fathometer as well.

[Bonobo]

19. Says who? The navy? Ha ha ha ha!

[GrahmMan]

21. Says me

I have served on both surface ships AND submarines, I know EXACTLY what the procedures and measures are, so laugh all you want.

[GrahmMan]

22. In fact, the Marine Mammal Mitigation

Program (yes it is a program with required training and procedures for ALL Naval Personnel) was my responsibility on my last ship.

[Bonobo]

23. Okay. I now believe that the US Navy is ultra-concerned about marine mammals.

[GrahmMan]

24. You can sit there and believe one side or the other

The Navy goes way the hell out of its way to preserve marine life. It is way more concerned about it than commercial ships. There are bigger fish to fry than the Navy if you want to preserve marine life.

[DainBramaged]

20. Bump for millitary might over flipper

[RedCappedBandit]

38. Didn't 'cha know?>

The war interests of greedy white old pigs are more important than .. lives, human or otherwise.